Donald Trump - GUILTY!

Carolina Red

Moderator
Staff
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
36,774
Location
South Carolina
Really? Looks like the indictments are acting as a rallying cry for his voting base.

To be clear, I'm not saying he shouldn't be indicted - in my view, he clearly belongs in jail.
His voting base is baked in. This is much more likely to drive away swing voters than pull them towards him.
 

Carolina Red

Moderator
Staff
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
36,774
Location
South Carolina
How much % of votes are swing voters? Significant?
Some political scientists with very strict definitions of the term say around 7% of possible voters, but others that include casual voters into the swing voter category have the number as high as 30% of possible voters.

Either way, yes, the number is significant enough to change an election.

Considering Biden already beat Trump once, obviously, any more swing voters breaking toward Biden because of these indictments and trials just makes things even worse for Trump.
 

The United

Full Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Messages
5,829
How much % of votes are swing voters? Significant?
The percentage of it as a whole does not matter much for the presidential election, I would think. It just has to be high on the battle grounds such as GA, AZ, WI, MI, and PA to decide who will be the president. A high percentage of swing voters in places like FL, TX, CA, NY, etc. would not matter much.
 

Hamnat

Full Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2012
Messages
1,555
Location
Texas
The percentage of it as a whole does not matter much for the presidential election, I would think. It just has to be high on the battle grounds such as GA, AZ, WI, MI, and PA to decide who will be the president. A high percentage of swing voters in places like FL, TX, CA, NY, etc. would not matter much.
Exactly. The same swing states in 2020 is where the needle will have to move for any potential Trump win. GA is the only one that makes me nervous simply because it takes a MASSIVE turnout of voters to get the results there. 2 Dem Senators and Blue for Biden. You would need the same again every time as we saw they still vote R for Governor and legislature.

He is about to be indicted again by Georgia though any day now as we have seen. So more will come from that trial about how he tried to defraud voters. It will only help the case for voting against him and turnout.
 

frostbite

Full Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2021
Messages
3,497
Not sure how accurate it is but

https://www.racetothewh.com/president/polls

says 13% unsure in a choice between Biden & Trump.
Yes, but this is for Trump and Biden specifically, ie. two politicians who are well known and have already been candidates, so people have formed opinions already.

If the vote was about two new candidates, say DeSantis vs Newsom, the percentage would be much higher.
 

calodo2003

Flaming Full Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
42,510
Location
Florida
Yes, but this is for Trump and Biden specifically, ie. two politicians who are well known and have already been candidates, so people have formed opinions already.

If the vote was about two new candidates, say DeSantis vs Newsom, the percentage would be much higher.
Good point.
 

Red in STL

Turnover not takeover
Joined
Dec 1, 2022
Messages
10,494
Location
In Bed
Supports
The only team that matters
The percentage of it as a whole does not matter much for the presidential election, I would think. It just has to be high on the battle grounds such as GA, AZ, WI, MI, and PA to decide who will be the president. A high percentage of swing voters in places like FL, TX, CA, NY, etc. would not matter much.
FL and TX might more in play than you think, TX has been trending Democrat for a long time, they will eventually tip the edge in their favor but probably not this time, FL, DeSantis is popular there, if Trump goes after him in the primaries he may well lose some votes, still will probably Republican but a lot closer
 

The United

Full Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Messages
5,829
FL and TX might more in play than you think, TX has been trending Democrat for a long time, they will eventually tip the edge in their favor but probably not this time, FL, DeSantis is popular there, if Trump goes after him in the primaries he may well lose some votes, still will probably Republican but a lot closer
FL has been going in the wrong direction for the past few times. With Desantis there and more conservatives moving there, Florida won't flip in 2024. He will make sure of it by any means as well. TX has been said to be trending purple for a while, but it won't get there for a long time. If anything, Democratic stronghold areas in southern Texas are under serious threat.

But my point was to emphasize the swing states for 2024 based on 2022 because it looks like the candidates for 2024 will most likely be the same.
 

4bars

Full Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Messages
5,260
Supports
Barcelona
It’s inconsequential as to whether he wins the primaries or not - it’s already in the bag for him.

The indictments will have a negative effect on his chances to win the general. He needs independents, and this will surely turn them off. Also, this is emptying his PAC on legal fees instead of campaigning and ads.
Indictments are doing the campaign for him. Is 24 hours on news cycle
 

calodo2003

Flaming Full Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
42,510
Location
Florida
Indictments are doing the campaign for him. Is 24 hours on news cycle
Sure, bad pub is better than no pub, but so much is already baked into a Trump presidential run, the needle ain’t gonna move much at all even with wall to wall coverage.
 

4bars

Full Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Messages
5,260
Supports
Barcelona
Sure, bad pub is better than no pub, but so much is already baked into a Trump presidential run, the needle ain’t gonna move much at all even with wall to wall coverage.
We keep saying that as much as we were saying other things in 2016. Including him pivoting

also Desantis was suppose to give him battle. FOX was on board with him, but after seeing that trump is at 30 points against Desantis in primaries, they are back on trump's team

And i get what you say but who knows how Biden is going to be in 1 year and a half, with fecking Kennedy in the middle stirring shit. Independents are wishy washy and you only need to do a great campaign on suppressing and Trump is the king on that

I kow that even you think deep inside that even if it is unprobable, he still have a small chance to win in 2024

And that alone is fecking scary
 

Mike Smalling

Full Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2018
Messages
11,625
We keep saying that as much as we were saying other things in 2016. Including him pivoting

also Desantis was suppose to give him battle. FOX was on board with him, but after seeing that trump is at 30 points against Desantis in primaries, they are back on trump's team

And i get what you say but who knows how Biden is going to be in 1 year and a half, with fecking Kennedy in the middle stirring shit. Independents are wishy washy and you only need to do a great campaign on suppressing and Trump is the king on that

I kow that even you think deep inside that even if it is unprobable, he still have a small chance to win in 2024

And that alone is fecking scary
2016 was very different. He got a lot of coverage then, but it was very much of him being on the front foot, attacking people in crude ways etc. Now all the coverage will be him on the defensive. It’s all whining, which takes away from his strongman persona.

Also, in 2016 he had an actual platform (build the wall, drain the swamp, etc.). What is his platform now? He has the disadvantage of already having been in office, where he didn’t deliver what he promised, as this business man who could fix Washington.

All this means nothing to his base, but it will to independents, and maybe even ‘normal’ Republicans. His best chance is low turnout through voter suppression and/or Biden regressing significantly in cognitive ability.
 

calodo2003

Flaming Full Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
42,510
Location
Florida
We keep saying that as much as we were saying other things in 2016. Including him pivoting

also Desantis was suppose to give him battle. FOX was on board with him, but after seeing that trump is at 30 points against Desantis in primaries, they are back on trump's team

And i get what you say but who knows how Biden is going to be in 1 year and a half, with fecking Kennedy in the middle stirring shit. Independents are wishy washy and you only need to do a great campaign on suppressing and Trump is the king on that

I kow that even you think deep inside that even if it is unprobable, he still have a small chance to win in 2024

And that alone is fecking scary
Of course he has a chance, but he’s not currently benefitting from being in the news incessantly. This isn’t 2016.
 

Pexbo

Winner of the 'I'm not reading that' medal.
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
69,068
Location
Brizzle
Supports
Big Days
Of course he has a chance, but he’s not currently benefitting from being in the news incessantly. This isn’t 2016.
Yet. He’s not the GOP candidate yet. As soon as he is the news networks will start filling the screen with him under the guise of fair coverage.
 

calodo2003

Flaming Full Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
42,510
Location
Florida
Yet. He’s not the GOP candidate yet. As soon as he is the news networks will start filling the screen with him under the guise of fair coverage.
Just don’t think so. That didn’t happen in 2020 to any degree, don’t see it happening in 2024.

His populist appeal from 2016 has virtually disappeared, his schtick is old & gnarled, & the exhausted majority wouldn’t demand seeing him / be very miffed seeing him on air to any degree.

Obvs talking about the legacy media, the newcomer right wing blather ecosystem elements will allow trump’s base to mainline him at all hours of the day & night.
 

4bars

Full Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Messages
5,260
Supports
Barcelona
2016 was very different. He got a lot of coverage then, but it was very much of him being on the front foot, attacking people in crude ways etc. Now all the coverage will be him on the defensive. It’s all whining, which takes away from his strongman persona.

Also, in 2016 he had an actual platform (build the wall, drain the swamp, etc.). What is his platform now? He has the disadvantage of already having been in office, where he didn’t deliver what he promised, as this business man who could fix Washington.

All this means nothing to his base, but it will to independents, and maybe even ‘normal’ Republicans. His best chance is low turnout through voter suppression and/or Biden regressing significantly in cognitive ability.
Of course he has a chance, but he’s not currently benefitting from being in the news incessantly. This isn’t 2016.
I fully agree with you both in that is not 2016.

But

As you @Mike Smalling said, vote supression is real and Biden has 1 year and a half to look or at least sell to the american voterthat he is not all well on his head. Trump could get the presidency with 3 million less voters do to electoral colleague. Focusing in the key states and could happen

I agree with you @Mike Smalling on that he has no policy platform but he doesnt need it. The presidency had become a reality show and it might be whinning but some other people will spin it as a real political prosecution by the deep state.

When trump will win the primary (it was in doubt not that many months ago), the GOP machinery will close ranks and it will be at least closer than you think.

If he doesnt go to prison, i would bet on trumpto be honest