Where does he say this? Can’t find it.
Donkai Havertz | Arsenal Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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How do Chelsea sell shit for 60 million and here we are, struggling to sell anybody for a fiver
Frustrating imcompetence
Frustrating imcompetence
Marca's been missing a lot recently so I wouldn't take that seriously. (Jose Felix Diaz is from there)
Reckon Madrid have pulled out because they feel they can get Kane.
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Good news for our attempts to sign Mount.
Thank the lord, who even suggested this. One bullet dodged at least.
Great news for Real Madrid.
I wish we were this definitive about Mount too
They must have watched videos of him playing games.
Looks like Boelhy is going to Boelhy all over Chelsea’s transfer window again.
Two home runs in Havertz/Mount. The opportunity to get an easy 100m Euros for a player that isn’t cutting it and another in his final year, and he looks like dropping the ball on both by being greedy.
It could be a messy summer for Chelsea.
Two home runs in Havertz/Mount. The opportunity to get an easy 100m Euros for a player that isn’t cutting it and another in his final year, and he looks like dropping the ball on both by being greedy.
It could be a messy summer for Chelsea.
Havertz has a problem similar to Joao Felix. He doesn't have an obvious role and has underwhelmed but there is clearly significant talent in the player and at the right price it might make sense to gamble on your ability to unlock it. The issue is that you can't get the right price because of the size of the previous transfer fee and the wages.
It was a smoke screen anyway, Madrid have something up their sleeve after getting Bellingham.
No way they get the best youngster on the planet bar Haaland and then they look at Haverts unless they offered 30 mil and walked away.
He wasn't even the second best youngster in the Bundesliga, let alone the planet. I'd rather pay €60m for Havertz than €130m for Bellingham.
You’ve always rated Sancho and Havertz higher than Bellingham though for some reason, overall Bellingham has easily been second best youngster in Bundesliga over last few years, I mean only other comparable player is Musiala.
Wirtz is better than both, IMO. And it's questionable if Bellingham's season was better than Adeyemi's. I'd have Bellingham roughly on Havertz' level. He was clearly worse than Sancho. Bellingham definitely plays the most hero ball of all of them, mind
He did have a better season than Adeyemi, and I don’t think Wirtz is better maybe technically but physicality which Bellingham has is still a big advantage in any sport including football.
I tend to agree with most of your posts but I feel like you focus too overly on the technical side which is only part of what makes a top footballer normally, a player can be worst technically than the other and still be a better footballer overall.
Bellingham will have a better career than Sancho for that reason, his attributes means he can shine in any league any top team and really most systems, Bellingham is above all those you named for that very reason, and hero ball is just a cliche, you know who plays ‘Hero ball’ in the PL, the best player in the league, De Bruyne. Just have a look at his passing stats accuracy and the amount of times he gives the ball away try to make the killer pass or cross if you disagree.
Athletcism isn't only brute force. Wirtz is more agile, has a lower center of gravity, better acceleration and is probably faster. And athletic attributes aside, he's also got better awareness, reaction time and decision making. He's the biggest talent in the league since Götze, IMO.
Yeah, and de Bruyne justifies that with great output. Bellingham on the other hand is at 0.5 goals or assists per 90. Honestly, I've never seen a Bundesliga player as hyped as Bellingham. And no, he's not suited for every system. As a CM in a possession oriented team, he would have much to learn. As talented as Bellingham is, now he's at Madrid, he needs to cut lots of bullshit from his game that gets overlooked at Dortmund.
Bellingjam is suited as an attacking midfield in a possession based system just like De Bruyne is, under the most possession based manager of all time. The best possession teams nowadays all have players who are given freedom with their passing selection, when people talk about possession based systems they use the long gone Tiki Taka era of Barcelona as the metric, when no team plays exactly like that anymore, not even the manager who was partly the brains behind it all.
You say he’s the most overhyped Bundesliga player you’ve seen, but the two you personally hyped up in Sancho and Havertz have both failed in different leagues, I’m willing to bet you Bellingham has a much easier successful time at Madrid than either of those two players had in the PL.
Whether or not they failed is meaningless, they were better than Bellingham in the Bundesliga. And let's see how Bellingham fares.
Bellingham is a very different player than de Bruyne. Completely different strengths and decision making. The way Bellingham played in Dortmund he woulf have no chance under Guardiola. Too erratic and impatient, not enough end product to compensate for that.
No offense but how often have you seen Bellingham play? I think you'd understand my point if you saw him regularly, especially in his bad games. Havertz for instance looked lightyears better than Bellingham when they met in the UCL this season. You'll see his shortcomings when he'll be up against Pedri and Gavi in the Clasicos, especially when Madrid has veen used to Modric' genius for sso long.
Bellingham has 8 goals and 4 assists this season in 31 games that’s plenty end product for a 20 year old midfielder.
Impatient and erratic can mean anything, that’s exactly how someone would describe De Bruyne if they never watched him multiple times and applied a train of thought to how possession based teams managed under Guardiola normally played, Guardiola made adjustments to suit hun because he was such a special player but 80% passing accuracy is not something normally associated with a Guardiola type midfielder in the past, even the attackers he gave more freedom to we’re careful with the ball.
I don’t think Havertz was much better than Bellingham at all over the both legs, and it was Bellingham who had a stronger campaign in the CL, either way there current ascension in the game is not comparable, Havertz hasn’t been great to his first outing in a league outside the Bundesliga.
Shortcomings? I think you live in a world where midfielders like Pedri are the only ones you rate highly, Bellingham doesn’t need to play like Pedri to affect games positively, and Pedri nor Gavi have done much more than Bellingham at this stage of their career. I’ll revisit this thread in a years time to see if your predictions were accurate.
Bellingham is only 20 he will improve you shouldn’t expect him to be the finished article, the hype he has is just as much as to do with his potential as it is current ability.
Yes, it is. But you're the one saying he's a top 2 talent in the world. And for that benchmark, it is not good enough.
In possession, de Bruyne operates in similar spaces as Messi did for Guardiola in most seasons. Guardiola doesn't think in terms of positions but rather in roles. Because de Bruyne has so much freedom, other players have to be more disciplined. There's a reason why Rodri, Gündogan and Bernardo have passing accuracies around the 90% mark.
You're right that Bellingham would rather play the de Bruyne role, though. What disqualifies him as of now is that his decision making in many situations is still awful - he dribbles when he should pass far too often and it has cost Dortmund heavily in a few games, e. g. against Schalke and Bayern. Guardiola has no love for players who lose the ball in the build up and de Bruyne definitely doesn't. He very rarely gives away big counter attacking chances or plays premature passes.
Anyway, even the much more refined de Bruyne could find it difficult to replace Modric in Madrid since he and Kroos fulfill vastly different roles in that team. Their creative input comes from the wings (and midfielders that don't lose the ball as often while making an offensive impact). So even if refines his game, this may lead to tension since Bellingham demands more situations for himself when he could bring Vinnie or Valverde into play, simply because he's a very different player to the one he was bought to replace.
Sorry, but Havertz completely and utterly outclassed Bellingham in the second leg.
Well, if you make a list of your top 10 midfielders of the recent past, the Pedri player type is definitely one that dominates. The UCL winning CMs of the last 15 years are full of them: Kroos, Modric, Kimmich, Thiago, Henderson, Jorginho, Schweinsteiger, Rakitic, Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta, ... There have been very few that successfully played a box to box role in those who did usually played for slight underdog teams, not the best there are.
What does all of this have to do with Kai Havertz? 
At first, some of these definitely are not like Pedri (Henderson? Rakitic?), at second you conveniently ignore that for example Kimmich played together with Goretzka who definitely is a B2B player, and even Kimmich himself has tendencies to play like one.
And as @do.ob rightly complains about, none of this is relevant to Kai Havertz, who playes more advanced and not in CM. Point is, it is pretty irrelevant if Bellingham was better than Havertz in a CL tie.
I'm not complaining. I'm just bemused at the randomness of this discussion, especially for the reasons you pointed out in this post.
We are discussing about an ex-Leverkusen player. Of course Zehner is present here amd we know what he always talks about, don't we?
Pedri, Henderson, Rakitic as in "CMswith high passing accuracy". Henderson is an odd one, true, but still several percentage points higher than Bellingham in that statistic. and yes, Goretzka is a B2B player but if he's the best you can come up with, I interpret that as confirmation for my point
This is a football forum, everything we post in here is irrelevant
The topic was centered around the best Bundesliga talents in recent years so I don't see why that should have nothing to do with Havertz? Especially when both discussed players are linked to Madrid/already moved there?Plus, what is it I always talk about?
Bellingham's 4 assists this season: not good enough for a top talent.
Pedri's 1 assist per season the last two seasons: inject it into my veins.
Pedri's 1 assist per season the last two seasons: inject it into my veins.
That's not what I said.
Please don't boycott the Kai Havertz thread.
About 150-200M on Rice and Havertz? Yikes!
What on earth
Chelsea are going to get some serious money for dispensable players!
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Rice is ok albeit over priced. But Havertz is such a dead player. I’d be gutted to sign him if I was an Arsenal fan.
Boehly is mad..
How would Arsenal use him? As back up to either Odegaard or G. Jesus? It doesn't make much sense to me given the fee Chelsea would want and there doesn't seem to much of a fit at Arsenal either.