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Yeah, no. You can't make this argument to absolve him and then credit him for squad building at the same time. Maybe all our good signings are club signings as well then.
Who is absolving him? Ole clearly didn't want Donny. That's pretty much guaranteed at this point.
The problem isn't necessarily Sancho or Donny. Though I have to say I'd much rather see Sancho given more opportunities than fecking Lingard. What is the upside of persisting with 29 year old Lingard? We saw him at his very best and even that isn't that spectacular to be worth it. But I digress.
If you think, that Sancho has to get more goals and assists than Rashford to play, I'd have a strong case that you need professional help as well ^^ Sancho has been bought to create stuff from the right-wing. Not to score goals in sub-appearances playing for counters.
Donny situation is much different to Sancho though. He's competing with Greenwood, who has been possibly our best attacking player this season, and Rashford, who seems to be in good goal scoring form and shape after comeback. It's perfectly understandable Jadon is not getting game time.
He's not made a single goal yet though has he?
Don't disagree. He's not been given a fair crack like others have but I just think it's Ole's way of telling the club 'dont buy players I didn't ask for' personally.
I support Manchester United too, that's why I've been advocating giving Donny a chance in Fred's place (especially if we're sticking with 352). Not because I want him to play for the sake of it, but I strongly believe we could be a better team. If we stick to McTominay Fred, we know what we're getting and that's not enough.
I share that feeling but Ole isn't the only problem that VDB has, isn't it. His strongest traits are his quick feet and good interplay connected with finding little spaces of room. He comes from a possession based team. How big are the chances we are turning into that even with with a new manager? So while I totally agree with you, DVB should definitely get a chance on constant basis in midfield, I don't think, that will ever get the best out of him. And if that is the case, I am heavily leaning towards "get rid" as long as some of his value is still intact.
I don't think we have seen enough to make a judgement he will/he will not make it here. Paradoxically, he might be exactly the type of player the future United team will be build on.
But ... Donny hasn't played well in cm. Mctom had been far better over the 39 appearances Donny has made since last summer.
Totally. If I were him, I'd just put him in for a couple of minutes here and there, let the people see what Ole sees in training all the time - than the urban legend would probably die down fast enough. Or it wouldn't and we end up with another viable midfield option. So win win win.
When was he terrible for instance? I remember him always as alright. Never a really bad performance, sometimes good, often in bad teams surrounded by the 2nd crop. He never stood out, no denying it, but him being terrible is OTT. His last outing was against Young Boys, wasn't it? His performance was more or less on the same level as Freds that day.
Oh, so you need Xavi or prime Zidane to replace Fred? Good to know.
I think VDB must be competing with Fernandes? as they can't both play.
I think it’s more people have seen him probably more than many here and know what he’s good at and what he could bring to the team if he’s given time to find his form. He’s not even been bad when he’s played. Just people don’t have patience and can’t spot all the actual good things he does because they don’t know what they are looking for.
I mean - that's not true. Fernandes gets subbed from time to time and the usual one who replaces him is Matic. Even yesterday, when the game was decided and Donny could have get some minutes, he gives chances to Lingard and Matic who are out after this season anyway. Let's just call it like it is - bafflng management. It's not some grand strategy on Ole's part, he simply doesn't have a clue.
Fred is in the team for his work rate though. Donny couldn't do that role. He's an attacking player.
Fred is in the team because of Ole's love boner for him. What good has his work-rate done for us? I'd rather have a technical player than a workrate donkey any day of the weak. And given the fact that Donny has performed much better than him in the few chances he's had this season, I think it is at least fair to give him a chance. Nobody is asking anything more than that.
I was thinking more of starting 11, is very dependent on gamestate is it not?
That's it in a nutshell and it seems nobody wants to listen. It reminds me of the halo affect in how people's positive perceptions of Donny have clouded their judgement about what type of role he can and should play in the team, and subsequently their negative impressions of Fred similarly determine what they think of him - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_effect
When was the last time Donny got subbed for anyone? Even Mata has more minutes than him this season.I was thinking more of starting 11, is very dependent on gamestate is it not?
He could have subbed in DVB instead of Lingard, but maybe DVB is more suited for the Atalanta game coming up on Tuesday. Not that he would need the rest
It's not that nobody wants to listen ,it is because the argument itself is nonsensical. DVB played in an intense high pressing system that is Ajax. To say that Fred has more work-rate than him is bonkers. Furthermore, DVB has experience in a pressing system and despite Ole's deficiencies as a coach, has good experience on how to press while Fred has spent almost his entire career playing under a very rigid and negative coaches and the results are there for all to see - he "presses" like a deer stuck in the headlights.
Just look at Pogba who you should be a big fan of then. All talent, no commitment. I get what you mean, 1) there must be a certain minimum level of technical proficiency around the squad and 2) workrate alone doesn't outweigh talent.
You have a good point, even though it's almost the opposite. it's like people's negative perceptions of Donny have clouded their judgement about what type of role he can and should play in the team.
Pogba is great when under a competent coach that knows how to utilize him. Problem is that at United he's had past it Mourinho and Ole. He was amazing for Conte and the French national team. Anyway, I don't care about Pogba, he carries more baggage than he is worth. I just fail to see how you can say that Fred has more workrate than Donny when Donny was playing as a midfielder in a very intense pressing team that is constantly striving to get the ball. In comparison, you sound like Ole to me. Fred runs, passion desire, whatever. What good does that do for us? Liverpool pulled 5 past us with their eyes closed, before the Tottenham match we hadn't had a clean sheet for 20 straight games. So what good is Fred to us? Running around the field like a headless chicken is about as useful as a footballer with no legs. It is actually, more often than not, a detriment to the team because you do not want your players leaving out spaces for the other team.
Has he? That would be very unpopular opinion as far as you consider his CM performances (he was played in AM position majority of last season where he was very very ineffective). Actually he had decent to good perfromances whenever he was given a chance in midfield. Hardly set the world alight, but even "decent" is much better than what Fred has served for us this season.
You're talking BS as nobody on here is saying those things. What is being repeated is van de Beek has been decent whenever we played him in midfield. Which, again, is better than Fred this season and surely at the very least deserves a chance. You seem to be the only one obsessed with spinning the narration so that it looks like people are crying for him to play, while this is one of the more sensible threads on this forum.
That was the case until Pogba was moved to LCM/LW position last season and we started giving van de Beek minutes in midfield. This is his current position at United (CM), no matter what role he had at Ajax. I think that was the initial idea (to play him as an AM), but that's dead now.
That might be true and I'll certainly take your word for it as I didn't see him at Ajax.
Well if that is the case which it very well might be, I can understand why he can't get minutes.
It’s not a bad theory and that was dumb from Donny, but Pogba has done worse on a few occasions and Ole has looked past it.
Donny’s performance against West Ham is almost as legendary round these parts as when LVG had us playing nice footy for about two weeks.
Yeah Pogba has been able to do whatever he wants, very strange.
It is funny that you see simplistic views on others but not on yourself. You think, the current rut is solely down to Fred and the managers insistence on playing him? That is the mother of simplistic I'd say.
You're taking words out of my mouth that I never said. In fact, I think Fred can be a decent player with a proper coach that knows how to utilize him. Never a United quality, but still good enough to do the job when called for. Problem is that at the moment he is appalling and we have a player, exactly what we need, sitting on the bench and not even getting 5 minutes per game. This is problematic for a number of reasons. Now you talk about Donny not being on the level of Fred in terms of workrate, but you don't know that. You've barely watched Donny. He did an amazing job against West Ham, taking the ball and pressing. How often has Fred ever managed to dispossess someone off the ball? It's one thing to run and have energy, it's another to actually use it. For example, Cavani runs and has energy and often times works for him because he is quite capable of taking the ball. Fred simply runs for the sake of running. You argue that Fred is available for passes, and albeit he doesn't hide like McT from he ball, the problem is that often times - when he gets the ball, he holds it for too long and more than often gets dispossessed. It's a good thing to ask for the ball, but it's also a bad thing when you have zero idea what to do with it and you're easily targeted by other teams.
The only thing the activity in Donny's thread shows we brought a Ballon D'or shortlisted player for 40 million who hasn't seen the light of day despite our midfield performances being constantly dreadful which leaves fans worried and baffled at what's going on. You wouldn't see nearly the amount of same activity if Donny actually played, but failed and Fred took his chance. But none of that has happened
