Donny Van De Beek

[ti vu]

I'm not saying he's a system player, i'm saying he's a complementary player. Put it this way: Van de Beek can succeed in many circumstances, but unless he's in the right ones he's not going to be more than a good or very good player

De Jong is a system unto himself. If you have De Jong, you play his football, and you'll be great at it too

Oh I see.

I would still disagree, but it's just personal opinion. I believe Van der Beek has what it takes to be a top player regardless of situation. Just not into the categories where we're talking about winning best player award, being all time great, successor to the great Xavi... like De Jong for instance.

Top player in my definition can just be like Seedorf. An mainstay of a top team (challenging and winning, not just mere name). You would miss when he's not there, but not flashy to get into World best XI...

 

[Member 93275]

Yeah I'm sure VDB could perfectly adjust to the system played at Wolfsburg or wherever he ends up after his first too big step failed (like to a PL club going for 7th place), and become a hero there.

 

[ti vu]

That's a weird perspective.

I don't mean just assessment on player, but the mindset to be the "correct one" on a Internet forum. Instead of wishing you can keep as many players at Ajax and build up the team as a force, you already gave up and wished your players to move and wish them to fail, so you can stand correct?

 

[Member 93275]

It's not my wish, but my prediction. The rest of your comment suggests you're surprised to find that people have opinions on the Internet.

Of course my prediction might not become reality, but reality led to my prediction. I admit it's a bit cynical. I wish Ajax could have kept Frenkie.

 

[ti vu]

It's not just opinion in your case, especially when you're projecting prediction (not just assessment) how player would fail at big club and be hero else where. Why wouldn't they come back to Ajax after that failure? It showed not just your opinion/ assessment of Van der Beek, but the follow up of you debate with another poster.

And when Ajax sold De Jong for the price, they had a great budget for their playing field , enough to hold on to other players, while can recruit some seasoned player if needed. What you said is more of prediction of an exodus rather than assessment of situation? Ajax spending last summer on Tadic and Blind showed, they directors ain't just giving in for such exodus scenario. Even Justin Kluivert was meant to be kept until Raiola enter the scene and stunk up the place. De Ligt was also rumored being approached, yet Ajax fought to keep him at least for now.

 

[Invictus]

Gab Marcotti said he's a generational talent. That good?

Don't think so, no — Ajax has only 2 generational talents: De Jong and De Ligt, who can be the Redondo and Nesta type players of this generation in terms of talent. Then you have Dolberg, IMO — who sometimes looks like Ibrahimović, but hasn't kicked on, unfortunately. Then probably Neres and Mazraoui, followed by Van De Beek — who is good, but not really in the same dimension as the former duo in terms of pure talent (a distinction should be made between this and what he develops into because players regularly exceed their suggested level with hard work).

Assessing a team like Ajax can be difficult, too, because the system is well implemented by now, and sometimes cog-in-the-machine type players perform above their level (which wouldn't happen if they were isolated or placed in less coherent setups). That being said, Van De Beek could be an astute addition to a club like United because he can adapt to others around him and balance things out (which is an important trait to have in a midfield that is primarily built around Pogba).

Reminds me of someone like Mühren from the late '60s to '70s Ajax team, in that he's quite hard-working, versatile and well-rounded as a midfielder...though Mühren wasn't just a complementary act to Neeskens and could be a bit more cheeky (like casually doing keepie-uppies in the European Cup semi-finals vs. Madrid)!

 

[Member 93275]

It's not just opinion in your case, especially when you're projecting prediction (not just assessment) how player would fail at big club and be hero else where. Why wouldn't they come back to Ajax after that failure? It showed not just your opinion/ assessment of Van der Beek, but the follow up of you debate with another poster.

Look, I'm interested in opinions and discussions about football, not in your opinions about me.

 

[ti vu]

Look, I'm interested in opinions and discussions about football, not in your opinions about me.

So why not quote my full post?

Where is the part regarding Ajax may approach different which I cited last summer different approach to transfer? Why should it be an exodus instead of limiting outgoing and replace with a tweak in system and reinvest the transfer fee in new signings?

 

[Member 93275]

Reminds me of someone like Mühren from the late '60s to '70s Ajax team, in that he's quite hard-working, versatile and well-rounded as a midfielder...though Mühren wasn't just a complementary act to Neeskens and could be a bit more cheeky (like casually doing keepie-uppies in the European Cup semi-finals vs. Madrid)!

When I was a kid he and his brother gave a demonstration/training at my club (it was a gig for them, they were a bit older already), so they got out the car, and Gerrie took a ball, kept it up while walking all the way to the canteen, walked to the bar while keeping it up and ordered a refreshment. I'll never forget it!

 

[Member 93275]

Why should it be an exodus instead of limiting outgoing and replace with a tweak in system and reinvest the transfer fee in new signings?

Entirely different discussion. Overmars said 4-5 players max. The rest, including Donny, will have to wait. Already signing new players.

 

[ti vu]

Entirely different discussion. Overmars said 4-5 players max. The rest, including Donny, will have to wait. Already signing new players.

Thanks for the info, and the response that of a genuine discussion.

Always have a soft spot for Ajax so wish them to keep the team and continue to grow in stature as the club.

 

[Invictus]

When I was a kid he and his brother gave a demonstration/training at my club (it was a gig for them, they were a bit older already), so they got out the car, and Gerrie took a ball, kept it up with while walking all the way to the canteen, walked to the bar while keeping it up and ordered a refreshment. I'll never forget it!

That's quite a story!

P.S. Kinda off topic, but I've been meaning to ask a clued-in Ajax supporter for a while now: how is Brandes rated in your academy as a #6...someone who could emerge as an important player, or more of a Schöne level midfielder in the future? Or is it entirely too early to tell considering he's not even 15?

 

[Henrik Larsson]

\

Reminds me of someone like Mühren from the late '60s to '70s Ajax team, in that he's quite hard-working, versatile and well-rounded as a midfielder...though Mühren wasn't just a complementary act to Neeskens and could be a bit more cheeky (like casually doing keepie-uppies in the European Cup semi-finals vs. Madrid)!

Every time they show a clip of something nice and flashy on TV over here, like for example the Dani Alves/Messi warm up ritual (where they played long range passes to each other without letting the ball bounce on the ground) some grumpy old twat comes out and says something along the lines "yeah well I'm not impressed with that. I mean it's all nice and dandy, but I saw Gerrie Mühren play you know"

When I was a kid he and his brother gave a demonstration/training at my club (it was a gig for them, they were a bit older already), so they got out the car, and Gerrie took a ball, kept it up with while walking all the way to the canteen, walked to the bar while keeping it up and ordered a refreshment. I'll never forget it!

That's awesome man! How do you rate Mazraoui by the way? I don't think he's hopeless and he's very green, but I'd say a guy like Van de Beek is a bit more talented as a midfielder than Mazraoui as a wingback. I've read a couple of people on here now who are absolutely convinced of his talents though...

 

[Member 93275]

P.S. Kinda off topic, but I've been meaning to ask a clued-in Ajax supporter for a while now: how is Brandes rated in your academy as a #6...someone who could emerge as an important player, or more of a Schöne level midfielder in the future? Or is it entirely too early to tell considering he's not even 15?

I can't really tell you beyond what you already found on the Internet/youtube simply because I don't watch games his age level. It's probably too soon to call, he's at an age Chong would look like the new Messi, so in LVG words, we'll have to wait and shhhee. When it comes to upcoming youth in Young Ajax the talk is of course Gravenberch and Brobbey.

 

[Member 93275]

That's awesome man! How do you rate Mazraoui by the way? I don't think he's hopeless and he's very green, but I'd say a guy like Van de Beek is a bit more talented as a midfielder than Mazraoui as a wingback. I've read a couple of people on here now who are absolutely convinced of his talents though...

I'm not entirely convinced, but he's still on a trajectory in his development. If we compare him to Marcelo, his attacking as a fullback is great, but not Marcelo level in his younger years. Defending wise, Marcelo isn't that great, but Mazraoui is currently worse and often caught out of position. This sounds bad, but he's a good talent really, but needs to stay at Ajax and develop more. I don't think he'll ever reach Marcelo level, but I'm not certain about it and hope to be proven wrong.

 

[Henrik Larsson]

I'm not entirely convinced, but he's still on a trajectory in his development. If we compare him to Marcelo, his attacking as a fullback is great, but not Marcelo level in his younger years. Defending wise, Marcelo isn't that great, but Mazraoui is currently worse and often caught out of position. This sounds bad, but he's a good talent really, but needs to stay at Ajax and develop more. I don't think he'll ever reach Marcelo level, but I'm not certain about it and hope to be proven wrong.

Yeah I think that's a fair assessment. Donny should stay another year at Ajax as well, though sadly you never know.

 

[Kaglish10]

It's not my wish, but my prediction. The rest of your comment suggests you're surprised to find that people have opinions on the Internet.

Of course my prediction might not become reality, but reality led to my prediction. I wish Ajax could have kept Frenkie.

Ajax had no problems when de Jong was injured so early against Excelsior, did they? In fact, they looked much more threatening with Van De Beek in the central midfield.

I feel Ajax fans will be praying that VDB won't have to leave Ajax in the summer because his loss will much more felt compared to Frenkie whose absence wasn't that felt against Excelsior. No wonder I have seen a lot of them happy about VDB having little hype on him. Without Van De Beek, Ajax wouldn't have progressed against Juventus. That's a fact! It's high time you put a ring on his name and stop underrating him. Frenkie is a talent to have in the central midfield, likewise VDB however, I know for a fact that if it was Frenkie that was deployed in the no 10 role, he wouldn't have adapted and would have looked worse than VDB.

 

[Member 93275]

Hahaha, here's Donny's mum again No seriously we get it, you're in love with Donny. Bless you.

 

[Macedonian Red]

He reminds me of Lampard.

 

[Ajaxsuarez]

That's quite a story!

P.S. Kinda off topic, but I've been meaning to ask a clued-in Ajax supporter for a while now: how is Brandes rated in your academy as a #6...someone who could emerge as an important player, or more of a Schöne level midfielder in the future? Or is it entirely too early to tell considering he's not even 15?

really curious, what makes you ask about brandes?

 

[The Nani]

Hahaha, here's Donny's mum again No seriously we get it, you're in love with Donny. Bless you.

@Kaglish10 was the first to bring him up in the newbs and he stands by his man despite constant criticism. If VdB goes on to be world class I say hire him as DoF.

Still don’t see him as a #6 but can kinda see the Bastian comparison and I have to say he’s a pretty intriguing player.

Would be nice to have a midfielder who could genuinely play all three central roles to a high standard. If nothing else he looks highly versatile.

 

[Invictus]

really curious, what makes you ask about brandes?

Oh, I remember watching this not-so-extraordinary video ages ago:

Spoiler

Then recently tried to dig up some material on Netherlands' midfield talents beyond the Ihattaren age group (and randomly recalled Brandes by name). But most of the content on the web is not too illuminating, unfortunately...Twitter comments, articles that aren't very exhaustive, and pointless Youtube videos. Just thought an Ajax supporter would be more informed.

 

[Oscar.Z.Acosta]

Great player and an even greater name.

Brings to mind some kind of fine wine with a hint of crow, but that could just be me (apologies).

 

[Ajaxsuarez]

Oh, I remember watching this not-so-extraordinary video ages ago:

Spoiler

Then recently tried to dig up some material on Netherlands' midfield talents beyond the Ihattaren age group (and randomly recalled Brandes by name). But most of the content on the web is not too illuminating, unfortunately...Twitter comments, articles that aren't very exhaustive, and pointless Youtube videos. Just thought an Ajax supporter would be more informed.

hahah Brandes is a player I also follow with particular interest (as in I'm interested in how he's doing, not that I actually follow his career) because of a random (different) youtube video of him a year before that one. He's the captain of the U15s, features a lot in these recent highlights (as in almost every higlight involves him) vs PSV (nr 6 with the captain's band)

Seen as a promising player, though I think maybe with some questionmarks on mobility? At least he always looks a bit sluggish to me. looks technically really sound and seems to have a really good right foot and eye for a ball. Think he plays at 6 most of the time but also as CB sometimes? that's about all i can tell you tbh

 

[Snow]

I really don't know what side you're on. You're probably biased towards Frenkie and feels I was trying to put him down for Van de Beek hence your attempt not to acknowledge Van de Beek's ability, even as I'm biased towards Beek also. Or you're one of those Ajax fans who are happy about the less hype of Van de Beek, which means he may likely stay for another season and help out to compensate for the loss of de Jong and de Ligt because I have heard some of the Ajax's fans say such.

However, I would have you note that many Ajax fans think Beek was fantastic whenever he played in the central midfield hence I'm not the only one who thinks he's better in the central midfield. No doubt he's adapted into the no 10 role now compared to when he was first deployed in the role but he's far better as a central midfielder.

Ajax fans comments on him as a no 6 below (I used Google translation):

Spoiler

*Dutch*
*Het middenveld staat verdedigend ook beter met Donny op 6. Schone is een liability als het op verdedigen en omschakelen aankomt. Ik vind Donny heel uitgenast in het hinderlijk onderbreken van een (potentiële) tegenaanval. Het is vloeken in de kerk, maar daarin vind ik hem bijna op z'n Van Bommels acteren.

English Translation:

Midfield is defensively better with Donny at 6. Schone is a liability when it comes to defending and switching. I think Donny is very much in the mood for interrupting a (potential) counterattack. It is cursing in the church, but I find it almost acting like Van Bommels.

*Dutch*
*Ik vind Schöne tekort komen in de topwedstrijden dit seizoen. Kan het fysiek niet meer aan en is voetballend niet direct een meerwaarde als je onder druk komt. Vind VD Beek in de topwedstrijden het beter invullen*

English translation:

I think Schöne is inadequate in the top competitions this season. Can't take it anymore physically and playing football is not immediately an added value if you come under pressure. Find VD Beek in the top matches the better fill

*Dutch*
*Goed om er nog een jaar bij te houden als ervaren jongen met veel voetballende kwaliteiten maar zal in de basis plaats moeten maken voor vd Beek of De Jong*

English translation:

Good to keep it up for another year as an experienced boy (Schone) with many footballing qualities, but will have to make way for vd Beek or De Jong in the base

*Dutch*
*Donny is veel meer de voetballer en mist de kwaliteiten op de positie waar hij nu staat die Ajax juist nu zo nodig heeft, imo zou binnen het huidige systeem de plek van Schone de zijne moeten zijn. Door de huidige (veld)bezetting op het middenveld krijgt ook Ziyech minder ruimte om zijn echte kwaliteiten tentoon te spreiden omdat hij en Donny in een te kleine ruimte opereren en te vaak voor dezelfde bal gaan. Volgens mij was het Kieft die daar gister ook een voltreffer opmerking over maakte.*

English translation:

Donny is much more the football player and lacks the qualities in the position where he is now (no 10) that Ajax needs just now, imo should be the place of Schone in his current system. The current (field) occupation in midfield also gives Ziyech less room to display his true qualities because he and Donny operate in too small a space and too often go for the same ball. I think it was Kieft who also made a direct comment about that yesterday.

*Dutch*
*Opvallend detail gister: Toen Schöne inviel, ging Lasse spelen op de halfpositie en niet meer op "6". Lijkt me ook verstandiger. Lasse op "6" kan echt niet meer en ik vond VD Beek daar wel goed gister (en eigenlijk altijd). Brengt veel meer power, loopt verdedigend meer dicht en is opbouwend sneller en beter dan Schöne*

English translation:

Striking detail yesterday: When Schöne came in, Lasse (Schone) started playing in the half position and no longer on "6". Also seems better to me. Lasse on "6" is really not possible anymore and I thought VD Beek was good there yesterday (and actually always). Brings a lot more power, is more defensively close and is constructively faster and better than Schöne

.

I think Schöne has been very good this CL season and moves the ball quite well. Might not be all that defensively but I don't see many faults in how he moves the ball around.

 

[Invictus]

Cheers @Ajaxsuarez! I'd figured Brandes is some sort of holding midfielder these days by the numbering, and your description matches that deduction — sounds comparable to someone like Garner at United in terms of positioning and captaincy of the youth teams (dunno if you've heard of him, Link from a recent U-23 match vs. West Brom).

 

[Jibbs]

Next KdB. Awesome player.

 

[NoPace]

Ajax had no problems when de Jong was injured so early against Excelsior, did they? In fact, they looked much more threatening with Van De Beek in the central midfield.

I feel Ajax fans will be praying that VDB won't have to leave Ajax in the summer because his loss will much more felt compared to Frenkie whose absence wasn't that felt against Excelsior. No wonder I have seen a lot of them happy about VDB having little hype on him. Without Van De Beek, Ajax wouldn't have progressed against Juventus. That's a fact! It's high time you put a ring on his name and stop underrating him. Frenkie is a talent to have in the central midfield, likewise VDB however, I know for a fact that if it was Frenkie that was deployed in the no 10 role, he wouldn't have adapted and would have looked worse than VDB.

De Jong is my favourite player to watch in the entire world, but there are periods in each game where this feels right.

It'll be fascinating to see what they look like next year, I'm guessing this:

Neres---------Dolberg------Tadic
VanDeBeek---Schone------CM/Eiting?
LB--------Blind----Magallan?----Mazraoui

and replacements for Tagliafico and maybe De Jong bought, maybe one for De Ligt and Ziyech but also they're Ajax so of course they'll look to promote.

I feel like they can hang on to Neres and Van De Beek for one more year, maybe with a promise to sell like they seem to have given Ziyech.

De Ligt, De Jong, Ziyech and Tagliafico leaving, you have to think that's about 210M or so (70, 80, 35, 25), they could spend 100M on 3 really good replacements if they're open to it, and still pocket half the money, that's incredible.

 

[tenpoless]

I'm all 'bout De Beek
Van De Beek
Van De Beek

No troubles

 

[Kostov]

I think we should shop more often in Amsterdam and this kid could be a decent addition.

 

[andersj]

On the internet players are either genius or average.

I have not watched De Beek that much and when I have watched him my focus have usually been on other players, but he appears to be very good technically, physically and tactically. Might miss a bit of pace?

He has proven that he can be useful at the highest level at a young age, and I’m sure he has potential to improve a lot. I do not know if we should get him, but usually by the time everyone agrees that we should we compete with Bayern, Barcelona, City and PSG. Hence, we should move quickly if we believe that there is a player there. Worst case, he would still be a useful and flexible squad option. Hopefully our dutch scouts know him well.

 

[Kaglish10]

I think Schöne has been very good this CL season and moves the ball quite well. Might not be all that defensively but I don't see many faults in how he moves the ball around.

Those comments were written at the time Schone played poorly hence the clamour for Van De Beek who did look better whenever he deputised for Schone while he was either rested, unfit or poor. At that time, Frenkie has yet to become an important member of the squad (or was mostly deployed as a central back then).

That said, I think Schone has been solid so far for Ajax this season, especially in helping in the quick transition from the midfield to attack. His service would still be needed next season to compensate for the loss of Frenkie.

De Jong is my favourite player to watch in the entire world, but there are periods in each game where this feels right.

It'll be fascinating to see what they look like next year, I'm guessing this:

Neres---------Dolberg------Tadic
VanDeBeek---Schone------CM/Eiting?
LB--------Blind----Magallan?----Mazraoui

and replacements for Tagliafico and maybe De Jong bought, maybe one for De Ligt and Ziyech but also they're Ajax so of course they'll look to promote.

I feel like they can hang on to Neres and Van De Beek for one more year, maybe with a promise to sell like they seem to have given Ziyech.

De Ligt, De Jong, Ziyech and Tagliafico leaving, you have to think that's about 210M or so (70, 80, 35, 25), they could spend 100M on 3 really good replacements if they're open to it, and still pocket half the money, that's incredible.

I really don't think Schone should be deployed as the lone holding midfielder. He doesn't have the leg for it anymore. He's better deployed in a 2-man midfield. What Ajax really need is quality striker. I don't buy their idea of deploying Tadic as a false 9 because while Tadic has been solid so far in the role, he isn't a striker nor a false 9 striker. It's better having an imposing focal point in the attack. While they have Huntleer, he isn't young nor can play many games. It would be good if they can sign Isak or maybe they can continue with Dolberg although I feel he has regressed this season. And also, bring in Odegaard if Ziyech choose to leave. Something like this:

VDB - Schone;
Neres - Odegaard - Tadic;
Isak.

There's Eiting, Jurgen Ekkelenkamp who can come in to deputise for Schone whenever he needs to be rested.
I feel de Ligt would be a bigger loss than Frenkie.

 

[Ajaxsuarez]

Cheers @Ajaxsuarez! I'd figured Brandes is some sort of holding midfielder these days by the numbering, and your description matches that deduction — sounds comparable to someone like Garner at United in terms of positioning and captaincy of the youth teams (dunno if you've heard of him, Link from a recent U-23 match vs. West Brom).

hahah what on earth he and brandes even look identical from a distance

Garner looks quality there. is he touted to make it at united?

 

[ti vu]

hahah what on earth he and brandes even look identical from a distance

Garner looks quality there. is he touted to make it at united?

Young Carrick is OGS said people talk about him

 

[Invictus]

hahah what on earth he and brandes even look identical from a distance

Garner looks quality there. is he touted to make it at united?

He is considered to be one of the brighter English prospects at United with Greenwood, and as @ti vu pointed out, some of the staff at the club think he could be developed into a Carrick-esque holding midfielder — so yes, he's expected to make it at United or at least stake his claim at the #6 position (especially if he absorbs Carrick's coaching and we don't sign a more experienced replacement for Matić in the near future to disrupt his trajectory in the first team).

Speaking at his post-match press conference at Selhurst Park, Ole added: “I believe he has got the chance to have a great future. Of course, he has to keep working.

”He knows we believe in him. We have great faith in him as the next Michael Carrick. I know he's young and it's not fair on kids to compare them to great players like Michael was, but he's in the same mould. He can see the game, he plays simple passes. He sees through the lines, like Scott McTominay did tonight.

First-team coach Carrick has been helping to mentor Garner, offering him advice and tips on his game, and the boy from Birkenhead is continuing to make fine progress.

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/james-garner-could-feature-against-southampton-says-solskjaer

 

[the_irish123]

I would sign him just to finally replace the Possebon chant

 

[wythyred]

He reminds me of Frank Lampard.

 

[Oscar.Z.Acosta]

He reminds me of Frank Lampard.

I’d take that as a grave insult if I was Beeky, but one assumes you mean in his great movement around the pitch and goal threat.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

I’d take that as a grave insult if I was Beeky, but one assumes you mean in his great movement around the pitch and goal threat.

How is it an insult to be compared to Frank Lampard?

 

[Oscar.Z.Acosta]

How is it an insult to be compared to Frank Lampard?

Ask Paul Scholes. Statistics do not a player make, though one can not deny Lampard overachieved massively in relation to his talent.

Just my opinion, though...