We was winners then. The club and fans had a different mentality
Eduardo Camavinga / signs for Real Madrid
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How was treated Pogba ? Being paid a premium to do nothing on the pitch and open his mouth on every occasion ?
Poor Pogba...
So explain us how he was treated, I don't get it...
Can somebody maybe tell me how he plays and if he would be a good signing for United. I know that he is a very special talent but I haven’t watch many games from him.
There is a big difference in building a squad and actual management and tactical nous and the application of it. Ole would be better suited to a DoF. Surely the squad is filled with potentially fewer flops because their mentality looks better but time will only tell if they really make it. AWB, VdB, Telles, could easily become more just above average top6 players who will never take this team forward. Just because he didn´t sign a superstar / bratty type of player doens´t mean he´s doing a great job. And even if he might have identified the right ones, after 2 and a half years he showed very little about how he wants his team to play. We are flipping a coin before every game. We are more of a bunch of individuals and that´s very worrying.
And I don´t really rate Scolari, he´s very overrated and his club career is just underwhelming. Also managing a club or country is a very different experience, You have very little time to work with the squad and manage more whereas on club level you have a time to give the team your face/ identity. Ole to me also llooks a bit like a motivator on a country level...
Apparently Pogba is allowed to do whatever he likes at Manchester United. He can kick the ball about, jog around the pitch, give penalities away and look utterly half arsed. But we need to keep him happy otherwise all of France will hate us.
Pogba never struggled as a youngster. He was excellent in a team where Morrison was the standout
That's an interesting topic though it's probably for an other thread. I have two thoughts about this first Pogba hasn't been half arsed, he is inherently inconsistent and has always been like most players are which leads us to the other point about salary, the club gambled on the idea that an inconsistent player that wasn't the leader of his former team would become consistent and a leader at United, that's not on Pogba, the club just lost his bet.
That could be the case. We also gambled thinking that he could develop his game further and improve from his Juve form when he's actually regressed. These should be his prime years and he's tanking here. I don't think many could have predicted that to be fair. His attitude and leadership skills should have been assessed by a scout though. But the story of Pogback was too much for Woodward to ignore I guess.
Of course I agree with you but my point is more that too often we blame players for not matching our projections/expectations instead of doing the most sensible thing which is to reevaluate our past evaluation and realize that we were wrong. I personally think that I evaluated him properly, I said that he wasn't worth half of what we were going to pay and that people would turn against him when they realize that he isn't the "most complete" midfielder in the world that they imagined, I said that Rakitic was a better player in 2016 and I was right. Now for balance, I suggested to purchase kovacic and Krychowiak instead and I was terribly wrong.
On the topic of this thread, Camavinga is a complete midfielder, I would compare him to a young Arturo Vidal but we all need to be careful about these things, he needs to show that he is a consistent performer, he needs to find his best role and hone it before anyone starts talking about world class, best midfielder ever or even the idea that he could walk into a top team starting eleven.
I know mate, I was disputing with the poster I quoted that Real Madrid would be the wrong move for Camavinga.
Camavinga looks a very good player but I agree, far too early to judge exactly where he'll end up but I do think he needs to move this Summer, but I think jumping up to a top team might be a little too early for him. But he'll be priced out of a move to a decent stepping stone club. I'm with you on Rakitic, I was really hoping we'd get him from Sevilla, but alas we got Schneiderlin instead.
Totally agree
He’ll move alright. He’s signalled that already and whether a move to a big club is right at this stage is incidental to a lot of young players.
The opportunity to be financially secure for life while playing for a top side will outweigh any doubts about them being successful. There’s always clubs for their services even if it doesn’t work out
Sometimes you have players that hardly seem that impressive any time you see them but they're highly rated amongst football fans, this guys seems almost the opposite to that. He has some what of a hype around him but I don't see much weaknesses in his game and at his age that is rare.
We should be gratefull he is here !Apparently Pogba is allowed to do whatever he likes at Manchester United. He can kick the ball about, jog around the pitch, give penalities away and look utterly half arsed. But we need to keep him happy otherwise all of France will hate us.
Honestly, I think that is a problem at the club. Too many players seem to have a free pass and it is all because the club is badly run, not because of them... But we are badly run because it is allowed and Woodward is too scared to lose some big name so he reward them by giving them lucrative extensions.
We seem to be moving away from that, and that is a positive...if you don't perform you are out. It should be as simple as that.
I have all three plus Sancho in my 2021/22 team in FM2021 (along with Greenwood, Rashford and Martial) and it’s all conquering!
Ridiculous team!Are you having a laugh?
Not bashing Pogba here and he was clearly an outstanding youngster, and you're a pretty clued up poster on the football side of things, but your post made me remember his last few months with us for the reserves (I had MUTV back then and would always watch the youth) I always put it down to him already agreeing to leave, but his performances for the U21's were eerily reminiscent of his last few years here, could never stand out in the reserves and had problems with inconsistency - same thing he struggles with now.
Maybe his concentration isn't what it should be as a pro athlete?
This! Pogba was brilliant for the reserves...at times. He could pull off amazing things - then be gone for 30-40-50 minutes against players he was 3 times better than. Kinda like he is now
Apparently he didn't receive enough hugs and a lollipop upon his time here.
2.5 more years of this at least for Ole and only then ask questions about the lack of trophies and double down on him.. Ogs is doing a cracking job but inconsistencies were in our game way before his 2.5 years and from LvG times.
So how has the club treated him badly?
He’s the most hated player we’ve ever had. Why is that? He’s also the most flamboyant. I assume people just don’t like that. It’s not a performance thing it’s a person thing. It’s also a football society issue not just a United issue.
Evra is a legend, Martial is far from treated badly and we’ve had French players here before.
Pogba gets disproportionate criticism that’s for sure but I doubt that will effect any player’s decision to join Utd or any EPL club.
It’d be interesting to see how the French themselves perceive Pogba.
pogba is ‘hated’ because of his lack of commitment to the club, and his lack of consistency in performances, many times because he can’t be arsed to turn up.Things like transfer fee and salary are totally relevant because they set the expectation level and how we judge his return on investment and if he’s worth it. It’s a very good way to be objective.
Dislike for Pogba has absolutely nothing to do with ‘flamboyance’ or his personality (race or religion). If you truly believe that, you are biased and blinded and making excuses with zero merit for him.
And he is far from being 'the most hated player we've ever had.'
Things like transfer fee and salary are totally relevant because they set the expectation level and how we judge his return on investment and if he’s worth it. It’s a very good way to be objective.
Dislike for Pogba has absolutely nothing to do with ‘flamboyance’ or his personality (race or religion). If you truly believe that, you are biased and blinded and making excuses with zero merit for him.
As for race and religion. I can't begin to fathom that
I wish we’d got a special dm behind Pogba and Bruno last window. It might have really clicked and taken us places. Partey would have been perfect for us by the looks of things but even then I feel like Fred and VDB would have ended up taking pogbas place in that lineup. I don’t buy that French players won’t sign for us because of Pogba. That’s silly. Anyone can see that Pogba is a special case. We’ve tried him everywhere in midfield, we’ve sacked a manager over him and we’ve been open to letting him leave for 2 seasons now while still playing him, promoting him, supporting him and paying him huge money for the pleasure. All we have to do is point to Bruno and hopefully CL qualification 2 seasons running and that should show we are on the up again at least. We really need to build well around Bruno before he burns out or becomes disillusioned. If the Pogba situation has shown anything it’s that if we don’t kick on top players will want to move eventually.
Have we even been linked with him? Seems like a Redcafe dream, but i doubt we are even looking at him to be honest
They love him.
As for Martial once Pogba goes he’s next. Evra was a left back.. he was never going to be star of the show.
Yes we have been numerous times, us PSG and Real seem to be the most interested.
Eric was crowned the King here, there’s no more to be said!
That's a moot point. I believe the question was whether or not French players would be reluctant to join a club in England due to a perception of persecution. Furthermore there was a suggestion of social factors which would imply, 'race, religion etc.' Not suggesting that the UK is some sort of haven of tolerance right now but at present you'd be hard put to find any European country that can claim that. If Pogba went to Juve do you think he would not get racial abuse? Where in Europe could ne go right now that doesn't have elements of Islamaphobia as well?
The EPL will always attract players of colour and of different religions. I'm sure they all come with their eyes open. Pogba for all his brilliance has made a lot of his own problems, not least having the most virulent agent in football.
PS a poll in France football revealed that 73% of French football fans want him dropped.
This! Pogba is disliked - not hated. Heinze was hated, Tevez was hated, di Maria was hated. Big difference.
Things like transfer fee and salary are totally relevant because they set the expectation level and how we judge his return on investment and if he’s worth it. It’s a very good way to be objective.
Dislike for Pogba has absolutely nothing to do with ‘flamboyance’ or his personality (race or religion). If you truly believe that, you are biased and blinded and making excuses with zero merit for him.
Have we signed him yet?
That's not exactly true, Pogba has always been a controversial subject some like him others don't.
We've been loosely mentioned, with the only club consistently linked being Real. And they have their financial issues and perhaps different priorities (Mbappe). I'd be surprised if we weren't looking at him, what with his age and meteoric rise, his re-sale value will be quite something. Whether he'd join I'd suspect is more of a question, not least when he's been linked with Real (don't think Pogba being criticised would have much bearing).
Who told you? French people or the English media?
I'm a french in France.
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