Eight games away from another disastrous season under Ole

[Infra-red]

I think that what will ultimately do for Ole, is his inability to coach an organised attack. With the points totals that Liverpool and City are now capable of amassing, it is no longer possible to win the Premier League playing our style of predominately counterattacking football - you have to be more proactive to win the requisite number of games. There are unquestionably better, more talented coaches out there and, sooner or later, you would expect us to pick one of them up.

That being said, I do think that when it eventually comes to an end, Solskjaer's time at the club will be looked back on much more fondly than any of the other post-Ferguson era managers. He has managed to dispel the depressing malaise of the Mourinho years and, even though the football has not been of the highest standard, that does nevertheless represent a significant achievement. His legacy as a United legend, will remain intact.

 

[SteveW]

Like we did in 1990, 1995, 2002, 2005?

Gopher Brown may not accept transitional seasons, but Alex Ferguson built his success on them (and in them). I know excuses exist, and I know transitions exist, and this season is pretty bloody obviously one marked by real transition.

Spot on. Saved me posting exactly this.

 

[Lennon7]

The fact is Ole is a great man manager and motivator, but he lacks (football) managerial and coaching experience massively. He’d be great as our assistant, but that ship has sailed.

 

[Ronaldo's Mum Eh?]

We were shit at the start of the season, but after Bruno came we've been good. Ole in I say.

Ole should've signed Bruno in the summer. He was an idiot for not pulling the trigger then.

If no top 4 ole should be sacked straight away.

 

[gerdm07]

Ole should've signed Bruno in the summer. He was an idiot for not pulling the trigger then.

If no top 4 ole should be sacked straight away.

It takes two to make a deal. Maybe it just wasn't possible in the summer but, hey, lets blame it all on Ole.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

That is bizarre logic.

What about if Pogba, Mc Tominay and Rashford never got injured and Martial scored 35 goals? Where would we be then?

You can't just pick something so integral to our season, make-believe it didn't happen and extrapolate a negative scenario.

Moyes' results aren't in any way comparable as he inherited the reigning PL champions.

Recruitment has been good, all of the players are fit. The signs are we can go on a decent run and top 4 is still possible after a poor first half of the season.

With the chances of the squad improving further and some long-term gaps in the first team being filled in the Summer, I really don't understand the obsession with doom and gloom at this point of the season.

Fair point but the same can be said about a number of fans who are using our current 13 game run to categorise ‘the season’.

As a fanbase can we not forget the whataboutery to go off what we know; we’re 5th in a poor/weakened league & have had some injuries but the players that have played have underperformed at times.

 

[OleBoiii]

Before we signed Bruno even the most optimistic fan would not rate us much higher than 3rd or 4th in the league. Back then you could argue that we were as low as 6th or 7th on paper. Now add terrible luck with injuries on top of this. Bottom line: we are exactly where we can expect to be.

1. Which first team players have gotten worse under Solskjær? DDG perhaps, but that is hardly his fault. On the flipside, plenty of players have improved under Ole. Shaw, McTominay, Fred and Rashford being the best examples. Then there's the promotion of Greenwood and Williams.

2. Which of Solskjær's signings have failed? It's too early to say, but I'm pretty sure that James is the only one that is at least semi-likely to end up being a failure. But he was cheap and mainly signed for his potential anyways.

3. Is our football worse to watch than it was under Moyes, Van Gaal or Mourinho? Nope. I'd argue the opposite.

4. Does it look like he's lost the dressing room? On the contrary.

5. Does he struggle with handling the press? On the contrary, he does this expertly.

Even if we fail to get CL football next season, Solskjær deserves another year.

 

[MetoTTT]

Will this end up being the 2020 version of "Sack Fergie, sell Giggs"?

How it's even comparable? Titles, succes, Fergie to OGS, Giggs to I don't know who...

 

[elmo]

Sack Ole, sell ______ ?

Clearly pogba.

 

[horsechoker]

Look if Ole had 8 shots, 8 opportunities to get everything he wanted, would he capture it or just let it slip?

 

[OleBoiii]

Look if Ole had 8 shots, 8 opportunities to get everything he wanted, would he capture it or just let it slip?

Jones' spaghetti.

 

[Deery]

Look if Ole had 8 shots, 8 opportunities to get everything he wanted, would he capture it or just let it slip?

David DeGea’s palms are sweaty, knees weak arms are heavy..

 

[londonredmaniac]

Why? We should accept a manager who is statistically our worst ever in the PL era just because everyone else other than Liverpool and City are shit too? You said it yourself, we are lucky our rivals have been shit too, or else we would have no chance of top 4. Why should Ole keep his job despite being shit? Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal's results should be irrelevant in that conversation. You're saying you would be happy for us to keep a terribly underperforming manager because our rivals are also terribly underperforming. That attitude is not going to get us back to the top.

I'm sorry mate but you're demonstrating the horrific lack of ambition that seems to be riddling our fanbase right now.

Anyone who has a basic understanding of football can see Ole is not the man to take Manchester United forward. We don't have a tactical identity. We have no patterns of play. There is no system in place. Every result we get is down to individual magic/mistakes.

And no, parking the bus and playing long ball counter attack against City and Chelsea is not a tactical identity. Anyone could do that.

It's statements like these I find puzzling.

'Anyone who has a basic understanding of football can see Ole is not the man to take Manchester United forward'

There are plenty of individuals who have played at the highest level, with far better footballing understanding than some jokers on a football forum who disagree with you.

I get that the point you are trying to make and, again, have mentioned I'm sceptical as to whether he is the right man at the right time (numerous times tbf)...but to suggest anybody who doesn't agree outright that Ole is not capable is nonsense, and to suggest the likes of you or I have an understanding of the game sufficient to make judgement calls as such is pretty crazy.

'I'm sorry mate but you're demonstrating the horrific lack of ambition that seems to be riddling our fanbase right now'

Again, another statement I have heard time and time again. It's bullshit. The fanbase isn't riddled with anything.

There is a general acceptance from most that this club has been on the downturn since Fergie retired (with some believing the downturn in quality began a few years before...that's a seperate debate).

To think any manager was going to walk in post the absolute feck ups that the owners and decision makers made post 2013 is a little ridiculous. To think that supporters of this club aren't angry, disappointed and wanting far better is pretty disingenuous and doesn't fit in with the people I go the match with...or any United fans I communicate with on any level.

What is a common sentiment though, amongst that anger and disappointment, is that we are paying for mistakes made consistently over the last 7 years. We wasted a bucketload of money and time on shite, shite on high wages at that.

Moyes was a poor choice, LVG and Mourinho were brought in to provide instant success....it didn't happen despite winning trophies. Are we better to watch under Ole than under them? Yeah...we are in some ways...massively so? I think it's overstated tbf...

In short, there is an understanding amongst our support that this team needs rebuilding and that takes time, especially after the fiasco that's gone before.

I get that there are questions over Ole's suitability to do that...how could there not be? but to dismiss the idea totally at this stage is unfair...and again pointing to others who are of the opinion that a rebuild is going to take time as 'riddled with a lack of ambition' or some acceptance of failure just isn't accurate.

'And no, parking the bus and playing long ball counter attack against City and Chelsea is not a tactical identity. Anyone could do that'

I get what you are saying here, and whilst I enjoyed the results against Chelsea and City...

I've not necessarily enjoyed the games, tactics and gameplan. However, I said this in our 3-2 win at the Etihad a few years back and was told to 'feck off and enjoy the result'.

We won that under Mourinho because City couldn't finish that day..we should have been 4 down at half time, possibly 5. We didn't win that because of great tactics/defending it was sheer luck. We were opened up every 5 minutes!

However, under Ole we have defended better in those games...and again I think you're romanticising the past here a touch pal.

Away games in Europe under Fergie at times were a grind (remember a good few against the likes of PSV, Feyenord, Villareal, Kiev), and dire at times. People seem to think about those 99 games at Inter, Barca, Juve, Bayern and paint it as the norm...it wasn't to be fair.

The idea we used to go to Anfield or Stamford Bridge (we were regularly fecking dreadful there), even with our better sides, and play sparkling football is utter myth. I've seen plenty of smash and grab in those sorts of games. O Shea and Forlan games amongst them.

Plenty of long ball football and plenty of backs to the wall. Plenty of defending in numbers and plenty of periods without the ball.

'You're saying you would be happy for us to keep a terribly underperforming manager because our rivals are also terribly underperforming. That attitude is not going to get us back to the top'

Nor is chopping and changing every 2 years because we've spat our dummy out again because we are not swashbuckling through the league and Europe.

'There is no system in place. Every result we get is down to individual magic/mistakes'

Every result? Really??

You've made yourself sound a little ridiculous here. You provoke those mistakes and moments of magic, in the main, because of the approach within the game. I could point to magic or individual mistakes in nearly every goal scored in most games.

Again, I don't think the general approach is perfect and share the frustration that we seem to lack the ability to change our gameplan if it's not working!

Also I'd share the thought that substitutions should be made earlier with more conviction. To say we are completely devoid of one or rely solely on hit and hope is, again, not really a fair assessment.

'We should accept a manager who is statistically our worst ever in the PL era just because everyone else other than Liverpool and City are shit too?'

He's not had a full season yet? And took over an absolute steaming pile of mediocrity tbf.

I get what you're saying, and trust me I'm livid at the state of the club. But then a good few of us have been barking that tune for alot longer than the last few years. The absolute imcompetence in which this transition has been managed is nothing short of disgraceful.

You might be right about Ole, it wouldn't come as a massive surprise to me if he doesn't go on to be a huge success here...and I'm not saying he is going to be by any stretch.

It's a big job, a proper rebuild and its been entrusted to someone without the track record appropriate some would say, and not without good cause!

I think the Klopp comparisons with Liverpool, though understandable, don't hold alot of weight.

Klopp had built a very definitive style of play and had shown fantastic ability to bring in and motivate great, consistent performances. Winning the German League with Dortmund was a huge achievement as was getting to a Champions League final all whilst developing this philosophy (hate that term but hey ho) and footballing style.

He was given time to develop that though...he was relegated with Mainz and failed to get promotion the following year. He left for Dortmund and it took him time to get them ticking...more than one full season. All the while he was developing as a manager...but you can hardly point at that as an indication of Ole's future success.

'We should accept a manager who is statistically our worst ever in the PL'

Stats are great. Statistically Liverpool won more points last season than we ever did in any of our title winning seasons...yet we've won how many since their last? Ok, the football and the consistency has paved the way for this season for them, and to be fair it's well deserved.

Ole's stats after the first 10 games in charge of a side that had been piss poor until his appointment that season were pretty much the best of any newly appointed Premier League Manager....people were ******* themselves silly. Depends over what period of time you are collecting them. Can't remember Fergie's stats being too clever first few years. Again, not a testiment to future success more a point of context in taking over a team that needed an overhaul and was severely underachieving. How long should a manager get? Guess that depends on pedigree to an extent. Again Fergie had accomplished a fair bit at Aberdeen.

Out of interest who would you see come in if Ole went end of the season? What expectations would you have? What track record? It's not a loaded question, more genuine interest.

Also, if Ole does get us 4th, or wins the Cup or Europa League how do you feel then? If we are pointing purely at statistics?

 

[He'sRaldo]

I think that what will ultimately do for Ole, is his inability to coach an organised attack. With the points totals that Liverpool and City are now capable of amassing, it is no longer possible to win the Premier League playing our style of predominately counterattacking football - you have to be more proactive to win the requisite number of games. There are unquestionably better, more talented coaches out there and, sooner or later, you would expect us to pick one of them up.

That being said, I do think that when it eventually comes to an end, Solskjaer's time at the club will be looked back on much more fondly than any of the other post-Ferguson era managers. He has managed to dispel the depressing malaise of the Mourinho years and, even though the football has not been of the highest standard, that does nevertheless represent a significant achievement. His legacy as a United legend, will remain intact.

I had initially hoped Ole would go the Queiroz route of getting a very tactically/ organizationally competent assistant, and focusing on the man management side. He hasn't done that, and I don't even know how viable it would be nowadays to have the assistant be better than the actual manager in that area.

 

[Bilbo]

Who said we were never expected to get top four other than those that will make every excuse to keep a legend in the job? Many of us did expect minium 4th place this season when you look at Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea being as bad as they've been in a long while and one of them even having a transfer ban. If he's not expected to get us into the CL now, well then when will he be and what was the point in bringing in players like Fernandes in January if not to help get us back to where the club belongs. Fans are living in a fairly land if they think Woodward will take no CL football again next season lightly and believe Ole will be given what David Moyes wasn't. It's a results business at the end the the day and we're talking about a manager that's going to be expected to also challenge for titles in the coming years.

Yes he will be expected to challenge for titles in coming years. Of course he will be. Being realistic about where we were and what needed doing is not the same as lacking ambition. In fact it's the opposite. The club took stock and realised that the approach wasnt working and something different was needed. That takes time

 

[elmo]

Transfer ban while actually getting two players in. Still in the FA cup and Europa too. Most of the players are improved, the atmosphere is good, very good results vs our rivals and the team is taking shape now. You see none of this?

You left out the part where they sold their only world class attacker and yet still outscored us.

Ole's only strategy is to hit teams on counters or pass to Pogba/Bruno and hope something happens. Just compare the off ball runs our players do versus Man City's attackers during attacking. It's like our players are told that they can do whatever they like on offense and there's no semblance of any plan at all.

There's a reason why we struggle to score while City don't have that problem.

I still maintain the stance that it's only because it's Ole that people are giving him this much slack. Put in a manager that doesn't have that much goodwill with the fans and everyone will be asking for him to be gone by last May.

 

[Nick7]

I thought it was really weird how the common sentiment on Ole’s performance as manager just completely changed after 3/4 good matches just before the season was stopped. We had been pretty crap all season and one popular transfer and a couple of good results seemed to cover that up.

We’ve been awful this season.

 

[SteveW]

I guess all the Ole outs needed a thread. All the recent positivity must have been getting to them.

I'll leave you to it lads. Try and keep all the nonsense in here if you can.

 

[el3mel]

I think we'll do well in the upcoming 8 games and may even finish 4th easily ahead of Leicester, but even if we don't I think the club will give him the next season anyway.

However I don't expect the club to be very patient coming next season and if things went south he'll go by the end of it.

TBF regardless of results his tenure has some positives that might help the next manager. His transfers have been mostly good especially Bruno and any manager will like to have someone like Bruno in his team.

 

[Sky1981]

Luckiest manager in the world:
- Worst xPTS vs actual points in top10, the team has 9 points less than we should,
- Had 2 long-term injuries to two best team players,
- 4 teams changed managers, we played 3 within 1-2 games after the managerial change, in their so-called honeymoon,
- All signings were successful.

Xpts against top 10? We resort to this now?

 

[Bilbo]

I think that while you're right, wouldn't it also make sense to get a better manager to take over from Ole now that the recruitment and current first 11 seems to be just about sorted, pending a few transfers?

I always thought that even as permanent manager, Ole's job would be to set us onto the right path and even if he isn't the one to complete the journey, he'll have been a success. I think he's doing that right now. The danger however, is that he could be kept for too long and the momentum we build with having prime players like Pogba, Fernandes, Maguire, etc squandered if Ole isn't able to eventually win anything of significance.

So while I do understand the loyalty to Ole, shouldn't there be a point where we proactively think of making that transition, instead of waiting for something to happen and then reacting to it? I mean if you do think Ole's the man to topple the best managers and lead us to PL and/or CL glory, then fair enough, but since that is admittedly doubtful right now, shouldn't we be planning ahead for the very near future?

It's a dangerous path to think 'manager A has done a lot of good things so far, but is untested at the highest level, so we should bring in more decorated manager B in to continue that'.

I can understand the logic to it, but it's dangerous because it assumes that manager B will continue to do all of the fundamentals that manager A is doing so well, but do them better, and I think that this is a hugely risky proposition because it takes those things that Ole is doing well for granted, and we more than most should be a set of fans that understand that this is not a given.

Ole is the right manager at the right club at the right time. We should embrace that, and instead of questioning him constantly we should let him take us as far as he can. Right now we dont know where that ceiling is but it certainly feels very obvious to me that we havent reached it yet.

 

[Withnail]

Fair point but the same can be said about a number of fans who are using our current 13 game run to categorise ‘the season’.

As a fanbase can we not forget the whataboutery to go off what we know; we’re 5th in a poor/weakened league & have had some injuries but the players that have played have underperformed at times.

If any of them were doing something similar and setting up a scenario where the bad run didn't happen to magic us into title contenders this season, I'd probably say the same thing.

I'm not really sure what your second point has to do with my post as I wasn't engaging in whataboutery. I was responding directly to the points made in the OP.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Ole has been so lucky this season. If Rashford hadn't scored 14 goals we would have been bottom half. If Bruno hadn't been signed we would have been in a relegation battle. If we had conceded more than a goal a game we would have finished rock bottom.

All of a sudden he has Pogba available too. Can't believe his luck.

Klopp is also the same though. If Kompany was still in the club & Laporte didn't get injured, Liverpool wouldn't be winning the league, if Salah, Mane & Van Dijk weren't signed, they won't even make it to top 4.

The same with Pep. If they don't have KDB, Silva, Aguero, City would be outside top 4.

Lampard also the same. If we didn't lose points in all the winnable games Chelsea would have been outside top 4 by now. Even against Aston Villa, they almost conceded a goal in 80th minute.

EPL has full of lucky managers.

 

[Teja]

I don't buy the narrative. We've been excellent in most big games and struggled against the low block because of the lack of creativity from midfield. Did people seriously forget we played Pereira the whole season at #10? Results took a turn for the better as soon as we added that creativity through Bruno and I think this side will be comfortably top four next season. I think we will surprise a lot of people if we actually sign a good right winger and manage to stay as fit as Liverpool have.

 

[Sandikan]

Ole was and still is one of the luckiest coach I've met

Ability aside the timing of events is always on his side.

Where did you meet out of interest?
And how many other coaches have you met out of interest?

 

[Thiagoal]

I think a lot of people are totally forgetting the absolute mess Mourinho left us in. Ole inherited a demotivated, unbalanced squad full of over inflated egos And he knew from day one it was going to be a massive rebuild in terms of players and a general culture shift!

Wind forward 18 months and I can only see massive positives. The players bought in so far have all been good if not better than; they seem to care about the club; some extremely exciting young players have been given a chance and could become superstars; we now compete against the bigger clubs and are regularly beating them and the big issue of breaking down the smaller teams will surely be rectified with the Bruno addition.

In two years we’ll be seriously competitive in England and in European football- you can see it coming

 

[jackal&hyde]

You left out the part where they sold their only world class attacker and yet still outscored us.

Ole's only strategy is to hit teams on counters or pass to Pogba/Bruno and hope something happens. Just compare the off ball runs our players do versus Man City's attackers during attacking. It's like our players are told that they can do whatever they like on offense and there's no semblance of any plan at all.

There's a reason why we struggle to score while City don't have that problem.

I still maintain the stance that it's only because it's Ole that people are giving him this much slack. Put in a manager that doesn't have that much goodwill with the fans and everyone will be asking for him to be gone by last May.

Yes there is. It's that they give the ball to KDB, D.Silva, B. Silva, Foden to spot runs and deliver quality balls while this season we had Pereira and Lingard to do that. Do you genuinely think that if you put Lingard and Pereira in place of KDB and Silva City would play the same? Or Shaw and AWB in place of TAA and Robertson they would have the same number of assists? In the attacking third when teams are defending well there is very little any manager can do, it's mostly up to the quality of the players, it's why attacking players cost so much. I honestly think you have something against Ole because i can not believe you don't know what i've said there. No manager makes great creative players from bad one.

Defending and counter attacking is where imo managers can have the most influence with organization,it's probably why Mourinho always does this rather then trust flair players to do their thing, but in the final third where spaces are tight, it's magic time, it's on the players.

 

[elmo]

I don't think it needs to be so black and white, I think there is a tendency to think people fall into the 'Ole is a fraud feck him off' camp...which leads to the 'defend Ole at all costs' camp.

There are positives and negatives. I think the squad is improving, I think we are better than we were the last few years as a whole and alot depends how we kick on obviously (though I do think that, at times, our improvement though clear is slightly overstated...again only my opinion).

There are always going to be questions about Ole until we win the league. Even then I don't doubt some would still question if he is the man to lead a new generation.

The finish to this season is hugely important in that context, without necessarily being defining...as finishing outside of the top 4 and being trophyless can only be seen as a failure in alot of respects.

The Chelsea transfer ban is a good point tbf, and it's a petfectly understandable argument that we should be finishing above a team that couldn't sign players and lost their only world class performer (IMO).

Lampard has done really well considering. Especially after the result first day of the season.

We are, pretty much, where I expected to be. We lacked in so many key areas in the last few years, and though some have been dealt with, they weren't all going to get fixed in two windows...

The rebuild needs to continue in the summer, and needs to continue quite heavily. If it does, the pressure is ramped up, because you're running out of excuses in this day and age.

I like Ole, though I remain sceptical as to whether he is the right man for the job...though obviously I hope he is.

He is a young manager developing and there is a question as to whether this is the job to develop in I suppose.

Nights like tonight are a case in point. We should, and need to be beating Sheff Utd.

Teams who sit deep and defend in well organised numbers have proven a problem all season...but hopefully Pogba, Fernandes, Rashford and potentially Greenwood can open the game up.

A poor result tonight and this place will be a little toxic you feel.

Ole has had a mixed bag really for me, but a strong finish to the season will hopefully build some more confidence....unlike the whimper we managed last season, which was pretty pathetic.

You get the feeling next season is the defining point for Ole, if he's supported in the window.

Honestly, the way Ole has been so far, I think he's perfect for the director of football job for us.

He knows the players we need as a club and doesn't go for those that don't have the hunger for the game.

Move him up and get someone else in as the manager. He seems unable to fix things when we go on a poor run and is too emotionally involved with the players to drop them even if it's better for the club.

Sir Alex would have probably given Dave a 2 weeks break last year after his mistakes and let him straight back in the squad mentally refreshed and ready to prove everyone wrong. Ole just says Dave is world class and expects him to get over it. We have one of the best backup keeper in the world, and should be making full use of it. Dave's huge drop in form last season costed us a top 4 finish and this season is setting up to be a repeat.

 

[Sandikan]

Ole has been so lucky this season. If Rashford hadn't scored 14 goals we would have been bottom half. If Bruno hadn't been signed we would have been in a relegation battle. If we had conceded more than a goal a game we would have finished rock bottom.

All of a sudden he has Pogba available too. Can't believe his luck.

Exactly this.
Most managers wouldn't consider a season where the best player was pretty much at 50% for a month then basically injured the rest of it as lucky.
Mixed in with Rashford and Martial having long spells out too.

Yes, he didn't quite do enough in the summer, and having seen Bruno's impact now, you wonder what he could have added from game 1, but you can't do it all in one window.

Keep Pogba, add at least 1 big starter level signing, and we're definitely going very much the right direction.

 

[hmchan]

You left out the part where they sold their only world class attacker and yet still outscored us.

Ole's only strategy is to hit teams on counters or pass to Pogba/Bruno and hope something happens. Just compare the off ball runs our players do versus Man City's attackers during attacking. It's like our players are told that they can do whatever they like on offense and there's no semblance of any plan at all.

There's a reason why we struggle to score while City don't have that problem.

I still maintain the stance that it's only because it's Ole that people are giving him this much slack. Put in a manager that doesn't have that much goodwill with the fans and everyone will be asking for him to be gone by last May.

Ole is good at press conferences and interviews, that's a skill and I'll give him compliment for that all day long. He uses his identity so well and he tells the fans what they want to hear. He says we're playing attacking football when we're clearly better on the counter and setting up defensively against big sides. He talks about mentality and United DNA when he can't explain the lack of quality. Everything is so positive and perfect such like we're in utopia, and fans would take that rather than admitting the flaws in our team. If he weren't a football manager or a director of football, he'd still have been a great salesman.

 

[MUFromLTU]

Xpts against top 10? We resort to this now?

So I should have compared us to bottom 5? Or La Liga teams? Or what?

I'll rephrase it, as comparing it to our direct opponents is somehow wrong according to Sky1981.

We have the 2nd worst, +9.4 xPts in the league games, only Watford has +10.1. If you are using the outdated understat values we're at +8.51, Watford +10.85.

Fun fact: if luck wasn't a factor, we'd be 6 points behind "all-time best" Liverpool

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Ole was and still is one of the luckiest coach I've met

Ability aside the timing of events is always on his side.

Not sure how you make that out.

We got Arsenal away, Chelsea A, Wolves A in last seasons fa cup. Then got Wolves away 3rd round this year.

PSG then Barca in CL

And we've had Pogba out all season, Rashford missed 2 months as did Martial.

Wouldn't say he's been lucky at all. Cup draws have been brutal and injuries not the kindest.

 

[elmo]

Yes there is. It's that they give the ball to KDB, D.Silva, B. Silva, Foden to spot runs and deliver quality balls while this season we had Pereira and Lingard to do that. Do you genuinely think that if you put Lingard and Pereira in place of KDB and Silva City would play the same? Or Shaw and AWB in place of TAA and Robertson they would have the same number of assists? In the attacking third when teams are defending well there is very little any manager can do, it's mostly up to the quality of the players, it's why attacking players cost so much. I honestly think you have something against Ole because i can not believe you don't know what i've said there. No manager makes great creative players from bad one.

Defending and counter attacking is where imo managers can have the most influence with organization but in the final third where space are tight, it's magic time, it's on the players.

Watch the other players without the ball. That's the biggest difference between us and City. Their playmakers have loads of choices to pass to because everyone is running into position whereas our players are not on the same page until the last 10 mins of the game and we're down and they all suddenly realise they're supposed to get free from their defenders and go towards goal.

Do you really think the likes of Wolves and Leicester have better attackers than us? It's down to the coaching which is an actual thing at the professional level.

 

[He'sRaldo]

It's a dangerous path to think 'manager A has done a lot of good things so far, but is untested at the highest level, so we should bring in more decorated manager B in to continue that'.

I can understand the logic to it, but it's dangerous because it assumes that manager B will continue to do all of the fundamentals that manager A is doing so well, but do them better, and I think that this is a hugely risky proposition because it takes those things that Ole is doing well for granted, and we more than most should be a set of fans that understand that this is not a given.

It's not because he's untested at the highest level that I think he'll eventually be replaced. It's more because I don't see him being a better training ground coach than the best, and I think in the end that's what will win the most titles. Either that or having the best players by far, which isn't guaranteed.

But you do raise a good point that there's a lot that's taken for granted in the pursuit for better. That's why it's on the recruitment of the club to find a suitable upgrade, as opposed to the poor way we've gone about our managerial hirings recently where they throw away the good work of their predecessors instead of building on it. Truth be told, based on our recent history we might very well be better off sticking with Ole instead of taking a chance on our competence in finding a suitable upgrade.

Ole is the right manager at the right club at the right time. We should embrace that, and instead of questioning him constantly we should let him take us as far as he can. Right now we dont know where that ceiling is but it certainly feels very obvious to me that we havent reached it yet.

True we haven't hit our ceiling yet, with all our best players on the pitch and suitable replacements for the weaker spots in the team. Maybe when that happens we will go up another gear into league-winning form. Even though I'm skeptical, I'm not ruling it out; in fact, I really do hope that's the case in these coming games.

 

[jackal&hyde]

Watch the other players without the ball. That's the biggest difference between us and City. Their playmakers have loads of choices to pass to because everyone is running into position whereas our players are not on the same page until the last 10 mins of the game and we're down and they all suddenly realise they're supposed to get free from their defenders and go towards goal.

Do you really think the likes of Wolves and Leicester have better attackers than us? It's down to the coaching which is an actual thing at the professional level.

Leicester until this winter had better AMs then us yes. The front 3 from us still got more goals then Liverpools front 3 at one point; Rashford is on 19 i think and Martial is on course for his best season ever. How much better would it have been had we had Pogba and Bruno playing from the beginning of the season?

 

[elmo]

Because Matic isn't in the starting 11 and the striker up front can mean one of our current crop being more consistent. And we already have a DDG replacement available in Henderson, it's only a question of when he comes in, so that's not a big problem either. And besides, few teams are every truly finished, there's always a question mark or two. But we're as close as we've been in a good long while.

Fair enough, but honestly apart from RB, I don't think we've made that much changes from Jose. Young players are supposed to get better as they develop and we're seeing that with Scott and Rashford.

We still have the same problems everywhere else just that the players and fans are much happier.

 

[Rish Sawhney]

Maybe it has something to do with Pogba and one of Rashford/Martial being injured for most of the season?

 

[elmo]

Klopp doesn’t play football ball anything like how previous Liverpool teams play or neither does Pep with Man City

Uniteds DNA would be pressure, counter attack and crossing which we don’t even do without a right winger or attacking fullbacks so that’s bollocks.

We seem to only have played better with the influence of sir Alex, so you got to ask yourself how much is it his doing.
A top class manager wouldn’t need to be spoon feed.

Anyway am going to stop now because this is exactly what I didn’t want this to turn into.

So let’s just get behind the team for the remaining games and hope for Champions League football next season..

In my opinion, the real United DNA should be entertain and win while ensuring that players from our youth team are coming through and contributing to it.

The actual style doesn't really matter because it's up to each manager's preference.

 

[Water Melon]

If we are not in CL next season, he needs to be replaced, imo. I still do not see anything in Ole that would scream of a top class manager.

 

[Nickelodeon]

Why is there such an attack on people who feel that Ole should be sacked if there's no top 4 (or CL through Europa)? I mean, you might feel differently but its not a crazy point of view. We have had some serious lows this season.

There are many, many clubs who have had their squads in much worse situation than us and recovered faster than us. Look at Leicester who were in the bottom half when Rodgers took over. I mean if we don't get CL football next year, we would have seriously screwed the remaining season. There could be a million reasons for that as well. Somewhere the excuses need to stop.

I'm not saying that he should definitely be sacked. But we don't necessarily have to hit absolute rock bottom to replace a manager. Other teams do that and have done it well.