Eligibility of footballers playing in different countries to birth

[antohan]

Wait, people actually think Wilshere said something wrong? For suggesting that only English people should play for England? That's the point of international football! It's not like he said people of foreign descent aren't really English.

I don't think he was wrong, just didn't think it through. The funniest bit is even during the interview he gets asked about foreign managers and suddenly he is backtracking saying Capello was OK because he gave him a chance fecking moron, anyone could see that coming.

 

[Ringo 07]

I guess that people who come from countries with huge populations are completely against players playing for countries they were not born in and people from countries with very small populations are extremely for the idea and will always remain that way......unless the countries with huge populations are a bit shit like the way Japan once were when they were nationalizing loads of Brazilians etc

 

[nooshka]

The boat has sailed. In the past I would have hoped that either you were born in the country you played for or your parents. But in a globalised world, I am not sure how this works out anymore.

The Oz or the Kiwi rugby team has a bunch of players not born in either OZ or NZ. Cricket had a handful of South African players playing for England during the Apartheid period. Where would England be without KP?

If soldiers like the Gurkhas can fight and die for Queen and country, I think football ought to get with the times and offer more flexibility.

How do you 'like' posts on the forum i've seen it mentioned but wondered how? As this post, especially the last bit, i think sums up the FA/football brilliantly.

 

[Cee90]

Well your last point is exactly that. I don't have the Iranian culture in me, so I suppose I identify with England more because of it. But there's a lot of Turkish culture and that runs through the whole of north London, even English people know Turkish over here!

A fellow North London British-Turk here...

I must say I do understand where you are coming from in general, although it may appear somewhat confusing to most people.

This topic has come up in the past on here and I distinctly remember someone calling me a 'questionable citizen' because I didn't class myself as 'English', even though I was born here.

To begin with, I think there is a bit of confusion in regards to this. It's not that we are rejecting England or English people, why would we? So please don't take it offensively, it's simply a case of having strong attachments to your roots and background.

Also, I can't speak on behalf of Genius Me, but in the past ever since I was a child, there have been times where I have been rejected as being 'English' or even 'British' for that matter. I remember supporting England as a kid and being asked by (English) people at school as to why I wore England kits, when I wasn't even English. Almost like I was trying to be someone I'm not. Whilst that was a long time ago, similar incidents still happen even today. I think even my English friends still class me as Turkish rather than English too.

With all that said, if I was a young footballer who had the option of choosing to play for England or Turkey, I would be happy playing for either.

 

[Silent_Running]

National identity is an archaic concept particularly in Britain and the idea of a sporting national identity is particularly absurd and worthless.

But if we are to continue with the facade of sporting borders, for the sake of creating international competitive entertainment - you know for the kids - then I can't honestly see the problem with expressing the opinion that the line should be drawn at place of birth. Besides what's the point of international competition if rules of eligibility are no different to those of the club game?

It seems harsh for the press to go after a young, unworldly footballer, for being unable to articulate the complexities of such a malleable debate. Furthermore it's not exactly hard to find far more overtly xenophobic opinions from many of the papers who are now criticising Wilshere.

Personally, such is the nonsense surrounding ideas of nationhood, I reckon anyone should be able to identify and play for any country they like, so Alec McHaggis should be able to play for Uzbekistan based on nothing but his love for the work of Ali Hamroyev.

Thumbs up for this post. I found it a really good, reasoned response. I also happen to agree that the argument is as ridiculous as the concept of national identity itself.

However, I'm all for people responding vociferously, even if directed at Jack Wiltshire, since ultimately it can only be good for people like him to think deeper on a topic such as this, and usually it is the opposite, 'patriotic' side, that are heard loudest.

 

[Adebesi]

If there was a petition calling for an end to international football altogether, and a complete overhaul and extension of the parametres of the CL (or perhaps the Club World Cup), I personally would sign it. The last time I paid the slightest bit of attention to international football was South Africa and even then my interest was fairly limited - if Ghana hadnt been there it would have been even less.

 

[rcoobc]

This topic has come up in the past on here and I distinctly remember someone calling me a 'questionable citizen' because I didn't class myself as 'English', even though I was born here.

To begin with, I think there is a bit of confusion in regards to this. It's not that we are rejecting England or English people, why would we? So please don't take it offensively, it's simply a case of having strong attachments to your roots and background.

Also, I can't speak on behalf of Genius Me, but in the past ever since I was a child, there have been times where I have been rejected as being 'English' or even 'British' for that matter. I remember supporting England as a kid and being asked by (English) people at school as to why I wore England kits, when I wasn't even English. Almost like I was trying to be someone I'm not. Whilst that was a long time ago, similar incidents still happen even today. I think even my English friends still class me as Turkish rather than English too.

With all that said, if I was a young footballer who had the option of choosing to play for England or Turkey, I would be happy playing for either.

I'm not a psychologist or anything, and as a white, English, Briton I have about as much opinion on this as the royals have on the issues of the commoners... But that sounds identical to what a lot of my friends experienced, and is why I said what I said a few pages back.

Childhood expediences like these really do seem to define self-identity further along in life.

 

[Gio]

This whole thing is stupid and pointless. If present day Messi or Ronaldo were to somehow become eligible to play for England, nobody would care that they weren't English or feel any connection to England. They'd be happy to have the world's best in the England team. I don't remember anybody raising this big a fuss years ago, when people were discussing the possibility of Arteta playing for England.

We had the same debates - see https://www.redcafe.net/threads/mikel-arteta.222344/ for example. You're right that folk would be a lot more flexible should a player who will significantly improve the first team become available.

 

[Slevs]

Eh?

It's a bit of a difficult topic to discuss really.

My parents were born in Lebanon. I was born in Lebanon. I am of Armenian origin. I, like my parents, went to an Armenian school and know how to read,write, and speak Armenian. I've visited the country twice. I can get an Armenian passport in about 3 months (disregarding the fact I have to serve an obligatory one year military duty). If I have the passport, whom do I play for (assuming I'm good enough)? Sometimes I feel Lebanese, and other times I feel Armenian. I would die for both countries without hesitation too.

Several cases like Januzaj's are covered in the Middle East when it comes to Basketball. The Lebanese league has several American players. Players who are obviously not good enough for the NBA, so they come here in sunny Lebanon, and play basketball. The Lebanese Association gives them the passport and they become Lebanese, and play for the national team in International tournaments. This is also the case for several other Middle East and Gulf countries.

My uncle emigrated to England before I was even born in the 80s (I think) and has been a British citizen for 15+ years. Just because he was born in a place he describes a shithole, doesn't mean he is bound for that country alone, when in fact he calls himself an English/British citizen everywhere he goes and feels more closer to home in England than anywhere else.

Limiting the eligibility of playing to the country of birth is wrong in my opinion. If you've earned the right to be called an English citizen after 5 years (whether you're 10 or 25), you should also have the right to play for the national team.

 

[CallyRed]

Look at the example of Chris Birchall, Born and raised in England, but was eligible to play for Trindad and Tobago because his mum was born there. Now I know I cant speak for the man, but I would find it hard to believe that this guy would have even considered to play for Trinidad if he had the ability and skill to play for England. Its the same with Danny Higginbotham at the minute, if he had the ability to play for England, would he have considered to play for Gibraltar? (if they had existed back them as a UEFA member - of course).

Its almost appears a fall back option for some players. "I want to play International Football - however I know I'm a bit shit to play for the country I was born and raised in - but my nan was born in Malta so I'll play for them instead just so I can get that chance".

I know it may come across as a very presumptuous view and it doesn't apply to ALL but there are cases where I feel that some sportsmen/women will use their heritage simply just to compete at an International level, rather then what they truly feel there nationality and identity lye's.

Effectively I think Nationality and Sport doesn't go together very well.

 

[Ryan's Beard]

Effectively I think Nationality and Sport doesn't go together very well.

I don't see why not. Nations have teams comprised of people who, for whatever reason, want to represent that nation and are eligible to do so. In Januzaj's case, if he decides he wants to represent England internationally and he is eligible to do so then fair enough. If he's not "English enough" for Wilshere or Griffin or anyone else who gives a shit?

 

[CallyRed]

I understand your point RB, perhaps I didn't think my last comment through enough.

My main point was that it appears that some sports people will decide what nation they represent, based upon their ability. It probably is more relevant to a sport like Athletics.

Like I said, it does not apply to all individuals.

 

[Ryan's Beard]

No I agree with that entirely (Higginbotham...) but even so I don't think it really discredits national football at as a concept. You'd have to question their motives for "wanting" to represent a certain nation but it's not really the nation's FA's fault for accepting the best they can get.

 

[Phil]

Has anyone just suggested scrapping the non stop internationals?

 

[Adebesi]

Its almost appears a fall back option for some players. "I want to play International Football - however I know I'm a bit shit to play for the country I was born and raised in - but my nan was born in Malta so I'll play for them instead just so I can get that chance".

I think that happens in plenty of cases. People probably just want to play at the highest level possible, the team most likely to win things.

What's more interesting is when it happens the other way. In your example a player lowers his expectations in order to get international football. What about switching allegiance in order to play for a better team? Hargreaves was Canadian, but he was good enough to play for England and he went for it. How much real affiliation did he feel with England? I actually don't know the answer to that, did he spend his teenage years at a boarding school in Lancashire or something? I always understood his parents were English (Manc?) but he was born and raised in Canada?

How many people do it that way? Play for a bigger country they weren't born in and never lived in?

 

[Ballache]

It's a very interesting topic this, the way I see it, you should represent the country you feel you belong to more. I am Lebanese and Swedish but I would choose to represent Lebanon because that's how I identify myself. It's not as simple as that but international football should not be treated as club football where you always choose the bigger and better team but instead you represent the country you feel represents you the most.

 

[SteveJ]

Stirring, manly stuff from stout-hearted Englishman Jeff Powell. I'm still laughing at the way it's written, an hour after reading it:

Jack Wilshere, last seen with a fag hanging from his lips, seemed an unlikely candidate to speak out for the rightful way the England team should be run. I trust he will forgive me for saying so.

Because, praise be, this young man has had the guts to say something from which the mealy-mouthed administrators of our national game shy away, to their shame.

More photos of St George, Bobby Moore, Winston Churchill, Lord Nelson, Gazza & Oswald Mosley this way, folks:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...FRIDAY-Everyone-involved-England-English.html

 

[Galactic]

If these 'foreigners' play with more passion that the 'truly English', why not?