Bullying is not exclusive though to these two groups. Having a different accent can affect someones life. I was born and raised in Rusholme, but we moved down to the Midlands, and the bullying started simply because I spoke with the same accent as a Terry Christian or Liam Gallagher, rather than a Richard Beckinsdale or Ozzy Osbourne. So again, bullying isn't exclusive to skin colour.
Eligibility of footballers playing in different countries to birth
- Thread starter NotoriousISSY
- Start date
Bullying is not exclusive though to these two groups. Having a different accent can affect someones life. I was born and raised in Rusholme, but we moved down to the Midlands, and the bullying started simply because I spoke with the same accent as a Terry Christian or Liam Gallagher, rather than a Richard Beckinsdale or Ozzy Osbourne. So again, bullying isn't exclusive to skin colour.
I didn't say it was. I apoligies if I made it sound like it, but I didn't mean to.
Regardless, with ethnicity/race/nationality, if people make you feel even slightly different as a kid, then you will self-examine that. If kids make fun of you because you're of Chinese heritage, or even if it just gets mentioned a few times horribly down the years, kids will examine and process that intenally.
Obviously that applies somewhat to other things, hair colour for instance, but there are less paths to mentally travel with that. "Kids are making fun of me because I am ginger; because I am different." You can go down some dark paths there, but probably not reject a nationality.
No need to apologise rcoobc, no offence taken.
Really? Some journo should have gone for a twist there:Wilshere: Terry should have never played for England
England starlet believes Butcher should have played for Singapore
France is an interesting example. They were the first European nation to radically change how nationality was obtained; jus soli (birth right in land), instead of the Germanic jus sanguinis (blood). It wasn't until after the Victorian times that Britain followed suit. France offered nationality to the Africans, Jews and other immigrants, mostly those who fought in the wars for them on the condition they assimilated and gave up their 'roots'. It hasn't been implemented as successfully as the government hoped it would, hence the debates about national identity -- what does being French actually mean? Then after the Second World War you had the mass immigration influx, beurs (like Zidane's parents) moving to Marseille, et al.
I do think France recognised and adapted to the multicultural, globalised football playing field. Immigration influenced the national team, bringing flair, unlike England who continue to have this Anglo Saxon way of thinking (see Wilshere's up and at em comments yesterday). Incidentally, I would argue it wasn't until Wenger's appointment and first successes at Arsenal that the Premier League had shaken that off -- they became less insular. Arsenal scouted, purchased and integrated talent from abroad on big scale, now it is a common trait with all 20 teams.
It can be. Going back to France, Le Pen described the team as "artificial", did he not? He ironically claimed Zidane was an exception to the 'foreign' tag, presumably as he didn't want to take on someone with great power.
The WC win was overplayed by the French media as if multiculturalism never existed in France before 1998. What it did was confounded the country into a state of confusion. French Arabs booed the national anthem when France played Algeria in 2001. The same who celebrated the WC win because it offered hope to them. Does that suggest a united national identity, one who share the same values? France at heart is a republic; I guess mass immigration challenged that in ways football never imagined. Soon after you had Le Pen's rise because of voter apathy and later the riots.
There's an awful lot of touchy feely "emotions" and "opinions" getting involved in what is at heart a very clear cut and factual discussion. Nationality is a fairly straightforwardly defined legal identity. The FA have their own fairly solidly defined rules on eligibility. If Januzaj qualifies to play for England then by all accounts he's officially English enough to play for England. What that wanker Wilshere thinks is irrelevant, last I checked he had feck all say in what nationality someone is, or who they are allowed to play for.
a lot of talk about Januzaj here, but what do people think about Diego Costa?
Born and raised in Brazil, even played 2 friendlies for Brazil earlier this year - then didnt get picked for a couple of squads so stuck 2 fingers up at his country and wants to switch allegiance to Spain where he has played for the past 5 years.
This kind of thing is ridiculous in my opinion.
another random one is the Boateng brothers - 2 lads both born and raised in the same way. One plays for Germany and the other for Ghana. That one at least is more understandable but still a bit bizarre.
Born and raised in Brazil, even played 2 friendlies for Brazil earlier this year - then didnt get picked for a couple of squads so stuck 2 fingers up at his country and wants to switch allegiance to Spain where he has played for the past 5 years.
This kind of thing is ridiculous in my opinion.
another random one is the Boateng brothers - 2 lads both born and raised in the same way. One plays for Germany and the other for Ghana. That one at least is more understandable but still a bit bizarre.
That's quite a ridiculous leap you are making there.
Come on Eboue, if an office worker had said "only English people should work here", then he/she would be deemed as racist. Let us not kid ourselves here, since Wilshere; talking about English people in general was in fact making reference to White Anglo-Saxon Protestants.
You heard it here first, Wilshere is a KKK sympathiser.
I see, I didnt realise they were all so young
Think you're looking a bit too much in those statements. Wilshere is a whining cnut but the criticism wrt to his statement has been very OTT.
The majority of the criticism I've seen has been wrt to his being a whining cnut which is thoroughly deserved. Not seen much of this "oh my god that's RACIST!" other than on here really.
To be fair to Wilshere, hes not saying Arsenal should only have "his own closed minded definition of what English is" players
IMO, they should preferably be born and raised in the country they play for. There's a difference between ethnicity and nationality, the former gives your more pride no? I feel the connection to 'my people' is stronger than that to 'my country', if you can seperate the two that is.
Is that not aimed at stopping them choosing another home nation? Like Bale choosing to play for England. Surely, if England asked Januzaj to play for them it would have no effect on the others. I don't think it would ever happen in a million years mind you.
My personal view is that you should be allowed to represent a country that you feel you owe something to and not in the way Deco owed something to Portugal because they let him play football there.
If a country like England allowed a young family asylum and their child, not born here, became a top footballer, I think he has every right to play for a country that has done everything to offer him a safe life.
Surely simply being born somewhere is largely irrelevant? It's the raised bit that's the main thing.
What if you're folks gave birth to you whilst on a random 2/3 month vacation to Gambia, and came home a few weeks after you were born... would you be Gambian in the slightest?
Just read an angry article in the Telegraph slamming Jack Wilshere for saying that people not born in England shouldn't play for England (citing the example of Mo Farah), so I had a look around and learn that that's not even remotely what he said.
And then the press complain about footballers never saying anything interesting...
And then the press complain about footballers never saying anything interesting...
This thread is so bizarre. Lots of people saying how people who grow up in England after being born elsewhere or having foreign ancestry should have the choice to play for either country. That is both blindingly obvious and currently the case already anyway. It really has nothing to do with the issue at hand - which is a player bring nationalized after spending five years living in a country as a professional footballer, ie players like Di Canio or Arteta for England. The Januzaj case is interesting because he came to England at, what, 16? Is 16 adult age? Did he grow up here? Does it matter anyway? Thosr are the interesting questions, yet people seem to be regurtitating what we already know, i.e that players like Zaha or Zidane should of course br eligible to play for England and France respectively.
I reckon there's a good chance Wilshere doesn't even know what an Anglo Saxon Protestant is.
Wilshere hasnt said that much wrong really, bit bizarre that he is now being portrayed as some kind of racist!
Meanwhile Alan Shearer is quoted as saying this, which is actually a lot more idiotic:
He told BBC Sport: "I am of the opinion that to be English you should be born in England. Maybe with the state of English football we haven't got enough world-class players."
Meanwhile Alan Shearer is quoted as saying this, which is actually a lot more idiotic:
He told BBC Sport: "I am of the opinion that to be English you should be born in England. Maybe with the state of English football we haven't got enough world-class players."
Correct me if I'm wrong here but your statement seems contradictory. You said they should be born in the country but then go on to say that playing for the team of your ethnicity gives you more pride than the team of your nationality.
So which is it? The country you're born in and the nationality you've adopted, or your ethnicity?
Another example, Danny Higginbothom - going to represent Gibraltar as his Grandma is Spanish and has links to Gibraltar, his mum got married there, and his Uncle is manager of the team.
Hodgson will be devastated by that one.
Roy was in early discussions but the uncle beat him to it
This English v British thing, I know quite a few people who have British passports from living in the country, all of them identify themselves as British but never English...
So in Zaha's case he can't play for anyone? Well of course you said "preferably," but that seems like a waste of a sentence, no? It's preferable that a player born, raised, and who's parents are of that nationality, plays for that nationality. Obviously.
I think what you meant to say is that; if a player is born and raised in a country he would then play for them. So Januzaj would play for Belgium.
But he seems to not want to play for Belgium for some reason. He has had many opportunities to.
It's international football, you Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime.
What would be the point of it if you could play for any country, provided that you've lived there for 5 years?
Nothing wrong with Wilshere's comments, and I agree with them. He never once mentioned race, nor did he say that you have to be born in England to be English. Zaha for instance moved here when he was a child, he grew up here and he is English. Wilshere was not referring to players like him in his comments.
Or maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick and Wilshere's a massive racist who's decided to use the BBC as the platform to declare his allegience to the EDL.
I assume you're right about the intention but I believe it applies to players of any nationality. I guess if a country wished to make an exception they would seek the approval of the other associations.
National identity is an archaic concept particularly in Britain and the idea of a sporting national identity is particularly absurd and worthless.
But if we are to continue with the facade of sporting borders, for the sake of creating international competitive entertainment - you know for the kids - then I can't honestly see the problem with expressing the opinion that the line should be drawn at place of birth. Besides what's the point of international competition if rules of eligibility are no different to those of the club game?
It seems harsh for the press to go after a young, unworldly footballer, for being unable to articulate the complexities of such a malleable debate. Furthermore it's not exactly hard to find far more overtly xenophobic opinions from many of the papers who are now criticising Wilshere.
Personally, such is the nonsense surrounding ideas of nationhood, I reckon anyone should be able to identify and play for any country they like, so Alec McHaggis should be able to play for Uzbekistan based on nothing but his love for the work of Ali Hamroyev.
But if we are to continue with the facade of sporting borders, for the sake of creating international competitive entertainment - you know for the kids - then I can't honestly see the problem with expressing the opinion that the line should be drawn at place of birth. Besides what's the point of international competition if rules of eligibility are no different to those of the club game?
It seems harsh for the press to go after a young, unworldly footballer, for being unable to articulate the complexities of such a malleable debate. Furthermore it's not exactly hard to find far more overtly xenophobic opinions from many of the papers who are now criticising Wilshere.
Personally, such is the nonsense surrounding ideas of nationhood, I reckon anyone should be able to identify and play for any country they like, so Alec McHaggis should be able to play for Uzbekistan based on nothing but his love for the work of Ali Hamroyev.
This whole thing is stupid and pointless. If present day Messi or Ronaldo were to somehow become eligible to play for England, nobody would care that they weren't English or feel any connection to England. They'd be happy to have the world's best in the England team. I don't remember anybody raising this big a fuss years ago, when people were discussing the possibility of Arteta playing for England.
Drawing the line at place of birth simply is the stupidest thing known to man.
"Are you going on holiday this year?" "We had booked a place in the South of France to goto, but I've cancelled it now. Because the Mrs is 7 months pregnant, I don't want to take the risk that my kid ends up French!"
"Are you going on holiday this year?" "We had booked a place in the South of France to goto, but I've cancelled it now. Because the Mrs is 7 months pregnant, I don't want to take the risk that my kid ends up French!"
You satirise, but I bet that there's a BNP family, somewhere in the shires, that has had that very conversation.
I hope someone digs into Wilsheres background and finds out he's actually a Canadian or something.
Wait, people actually think Wilshere said something wrong? For suggesting that only English people should play for England? That's the point of international football! It's not like he said people of foreign descent aren't really English.
I've got friends who did exactly that, they moved back to Scotland (they are both Scotch) for a few months because they didn't want their kid born in England.
They are otherwise pretty sensible, normal people (and they love it when I call then "scotch").