Emilio Álvarez: "United didn't fire me, I didn't want to coach De Gea anymore..."

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Says he didn't want to stop goalkeeper coaching at United, just wanted to stop working with De Gea. Also mentions that he was brought at a time De Gea wanted to leave because Jose was doing his all to keep him in the club.

https://en.as.com/en/2020/07/14/football/1594720083_064370.html

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Wow, I didn't know the negotiations were so messy on De Gea's side. Looks like his people wanted to get as much as they could.

 

[Red Company]

Says he didn't want to stop goalkeeper coaching at United, just wanted to stop working with De Gea. Also mentions that he was brought at a time De Gea wanted to leave because Jose was doing his all to keep him in the club.

https://en.as.com/en/2020/07/14/football/1594720083_064370.html

Not sure if his leaving resulted in De Gea’s dip in form.

If he’s that good we must surely bring him back. He’ll be good for Hendo too, if and when he comes back to us.

 

[Tom Cato]

I read this and I must wonder: What the actual feck does a fecking goalkeeper coach have to do with David De Geas contract extensions. That is nowhere near his job description.

After almost three years with lots of work and meetings with United to renew him and to make him the best paid player in the world, I learned that he had renewed behind my back. Honestly, it felt like a lack of loyalty. During negotiations, he also had a falling out with the person who had carried out all the talks in order for him to be paid what he was paid. And at the last minute, someone else meddled. I insisted that I didn't like that because it seemed disloyal.

This is so absurd to read. He has NO rights to know anything about DDG's contract extensions or negotiations. What on earth is this level of entitlement?

 

[DWelbz19]

I read this and I must wonder: What the actual feck does a fecking goalkeeper coach have to do with David De Geas contract extensions. That is nowhere near his job description.



This is so absurd to read. He has NO rights to know anything about DDG's contract extensions or negotiations. What on earth is this level of entitlement?

If I recall correctly, this guy is [was?] a really close friend of De Gea. Even still, it is a bit strange. Sounds like he wanted a slice of the pie, or just his 15 minutes of fame now.

 

[RashyForPM]

If DDG really did mess him about and sign a bigger-money contract behind his back, then fair play, he deserved to leave on the moral high ground.

Edit: Hold on, I’ve just had a little think, he’s a goalkeeping coach! Even if he was a good friend, why should he know about DE GEA’S SALARY, the most important thing outside of family, friends and football. My best mates don’t know everything about me. I rescind my above statement.

 

[The Original]

I read this and I must wonder: What the actual feck does a fecking goalkeeper coach have to do with David De Geas contract extensions. That is nowhere near his job description.



This is so absurd to read. He has NO rights to know anything about DDG's contract extensions or negotiations. What on earth is this level of entitlement?

It's not about his job but the relationship he had with the player.

 

[Adam-Utd]

So our GK coach was trying to make him leave fantastic.

Good Riddance Emilio!

 

[RUCK4444]

I read this and I must wonder: What the actual feck does a fecking goalkeeper coach have to do with David De Geas contract extensions. That is nowhere near his job description.



This is so absurd to read. He has NO rights to know anything about DDG's contract extensions or negotiations. What on earth is this level of entitlement?

So true. He’s literally just there because he’s De Gea’s mate

 

[Camilo]

I read this and I must wonder: What the actual feck does a fecking goalkeeper coach have to do with David De Geas contract extensions. That is nowhere near his job description.
This is so absurd to read. He has NO rights to know anything about DDG's contract extensions or negotiations. What on earth is this level of entitlement?

Exactly. Bat shit mad clearly. Loyalty?! It's DDG's career, it has nothing to do with this other guy.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Interesting.

1. New person came and be part of De Gea's legal/business team. I bet this started in late 2018.

^ That's the only thing that is not consistent relative to De Gea's performance on the pitch.

Guess that person have been poisoning non-football thoughts to De Gea. That person is also the same person that won him the ridiculous high wages which as usual our club agreed to signed. His on-pitch performances started to become rubbish with mistakes not long after the new contract.

2. De Gea wanted to leave all along. Emilio is closed to him, so that is true. Then again, not surprising. So then why are we keeping players who doesn't want (or at least not 90%) want to be here. Dean is up and rising, plus we're building a younger and more potential team. Will Ole start be daring dealing with our GK department?

 

[Web of Bissaka]

I read this and I must wonder: What the actual feck does a fecking goalkeeper coach have to do with David De Geas contract extensions. That is nowhere near his job description.



This is so absurd to read. He has NO rights to know anything about DDG's contract extensions or negotiations. What on earth is this level of entitlement?

In the context of this story -- he does had a role in De Gea's contract extensions.

Someone's not reading or didn't understand the whole passages it seems.

 

[Ivor Ballokov]

Sounds like his real loyalty was with Mendes.

 

[Uniquim]

Sounds like sour grapes to me. There are several reports that he was moved on because his relationship with De Gea was too friendly, resulting in training sessions were too relaxed.

The Athletic wrote about it several times. From december: [Source]
"Work on such aspects is done at Carrington, although it is understood that concern over Emilio Alvarez’s attention to detail ultimately led to a parting of the ways with the goalkeeping coach in September. Alvarez’s close friendship with De Gea, which started when the pair worked together at Atletico Madrid, meant they often socialised together in Manchester and it was thought United’s No 1 was not being challenged enough in training.

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer brought in Richard Hartis to rediscover the best from De Gea and we have seen a number of his trademark saves. But aerial authority is an aspect that requires work."

- David Ornstein also commented that the relationship was too friendly, and not work-focused enough.

-------

And upon a question about why De Gea was less consistent, United writer Laurie Whitwell said: "Hi Rhys, as I mention in the piece, the lack of a truly competitive No 1 battle after so many years of high performance has been cited by people I've spoken to as possible reason for a subconscious easing off.

Allied to this was his relationship with former coach Emiliano Alvarez, which some felt was too friendly rather than work-focussed. Alvarez left this season."

 

[El Zoido]

I read this and I must wonder: What the actual feck does a fecking goalkeeper coach have to do with David De Geas contract extensions. That is nowhere near his job description.



This is so absurd to read. He has NO rights to know anything about DDG's contract extensions or negotiations. What on earth is this level of entitlement?

Nepotism. There’s tons of money in football and everyone wants a piece. This has probably not been good for the team (DDG drop in form), but I don’t feel sorry for this guy. It seems like he wasn’t paid what he wanted or expected from a contract renewal he had no business being involved in, and has gone off in a huff.

 

[#07]

From the outside this story seems a little strange but football is a strange industry. Considering how much money is involved in the game, outside of the athletic component, its not particularly professional. A lot of players get their deals and contracts dealt with by friends and family. How many top players have their Dad or their brother as their agent? How many of those are really qualified to be leading some of the negotiations we know they get involved with? We have seen many a time that a player's entourage can have as much if not more influence on them than their club or their manager.

It does not surprise me that, if DeGea saw Alvarez as his mentor, DeGea would put a lot of trust in his advice about what he should do with his career. Taking Alvarez at face value the club understood that relationship too. We already had a few goalkeeping coaches when we brought Alvarez on. I guess it was a quid pro quo: talk DeGea into staying and we'll give you a job. However, from the way he tells it Alvarez was as much part of DeGea's 'camp' as he was a United employee. When DeGea fell out with someone else in the 'camp' Alvarez took the opposite side and the relationship broke down. That or he didn't get the cut he was expecting as a member of the entourage. With sports stars, musicians, actors etc there are always people around who expect to eat when a deal gets done. Its sad but that's life. Money makes madmen of a lot of people.

 

[Damien]

Not sure if his leaving resulted in De Gea’s dip in form.

If he’s that good we must surely bring him back. He’ll be good for Hendo too, if and when he comes back to us.

De Gea dipped before Alvarez left. I think Hoek was better for him as he was particularly good 1 vs 1 against attackers then though De Gea did have one of his best seasons under Alvarez.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

2016/17 - Emilio Alvarez joined us. De Gea continue staying, and maintained his godlike form.

2017/18 - De Gea finally won golden gloves, had a solid season. Also continued staying.

2018/19 - rubbish mistakes creeping in.

2019/20 - continue making those rubbish mistakes. Later, he won the god royal contract. Emilio Alvarez replaced. De Gea continue making mistakes.

-------------------

I have no issue with Emilio being replaced, clearly he's not doing a good work = cannot change the current De Gea's form.

There may be slight improvement to De Gea's improvement with the new GK coach. Tough to say really, De Gea still made the poor mistakes.

 

[#07]

De Gea dipped before Alvarez left. I think Hoek was better for him as he was particularly good 1 vs 1 against attackers then though De Gea did have one of his best seasons under Alvarez.

I don't think @Red Company is barking entirely up the wrong tree, although I don't think its the technical side where Alvarez leaving has hurt DeGea.

By all accounts Alvarez was more of a close friend to DeGea than a coach. Falling out with a close friend can affect someone's performance. If the tooing and froing over the new deal had already led to friction between them it might explain DeGea's concentration slipping. Like I said in my last post in this thread, football is a strange game. Lots of players depend on weird things like pre-match routines etc to get the best out of themselves. In DeGea's head maybe Alvarez was contributing more than we think?

Its crazy but we've seen it with other players or other sports or other areas. When a boxer loses someone from their camp who they rely on as a confidante or a singer loses their favourite back up dancer, out of nowhere, their performance can be affected. Maybe that's whats happened with DeGea?

 

[In Rainbows]

In the context of this story -- he does had a role in De Gea's contract extensions.

Someone's not reading or didn't understand the whole passages it seems.

They did understand the context.

It's still ridiculous. He's the goalkeeping coach. His job is to make the goalkeeper excel. His pay is independent of de Gea's contract. He should not get paid extra just because de Gea got paid extra. Sure he could argue he should get paid more due to his work, but again, that's separate from de Gea, the athlete himself. He should take that up with United. If he feels he's undervalued by United (not David), he should negotiate with United.

 

[Withnail]

If I recall correctly, this guy is [was?] a really close friend of De Gea. Even still, it is a bit strange. Sounds like he wanted a slice of the pie, or just his 15 minutes of fame now.

What's this behind my back business?

If he was trying to ensure De Gea signed a new contract and that was the outcome why was he upset?

Unless, as you say he was expecting a cut.

 

[Tom Cato]

It's not about his job but the relationship he had with the player.

Regardless of relationship, he's still overstepping the bounds of their relationship. His position at Manchester United is Goakeeper Coach. Not contract negotiator or legal councel. His workplace is Carrington.

 

[Tom Cato]

In the context of this story -- he does had a role in De Gea's contract extensions.

Someone's not reading or didn't understand the whole passages it seems.

Nono I read the whole thing and despite Englsh being a 2nd language, I'm quite fluent.

"Well, all the merit falls at the feet of Jorge Mendes, who did massive work for a number of years, working day and night. I added my own little grain of sand. Solskjaer asked me every day to speak with Mendes in order to get David to renew. The press was asking every day about it and there was a lot of pressure. There was pressure to speak to David so he would stay and not listen to other offers. Solskjaer was very worried."

Regardless of how many little grains of sand that he puts into the bucket, he's overstepping the bounds of his professional arrangement when he expects some sort of loyalty from De Gea with regards to the contract talks. His professional contract with Manchester United is Goalkeeper Coach. If Ole asked him to speak to Mendes since they had a relationship, and De Gea was his client at the time, that's fine, but that does still not make him entitled to anything. And let me tell you how ridiculous it is that Solskjaer would ask him to speak to Mendes *EVERY day*. Like some annoying real life spam e-mail that won't go away until you press Accept.

The way this article reads is that he is actually upset that he was not told about the signing BEFORE it happened. Not the signing itself. Essentially he is butthurt for not being kept in the loop. Would I be annoyed? Probably. But I still respect the role I have in any organization, and if I'm not entitled to information I'm not entitled.

 

[charlenefan]

So he was working with Mendes to get DDG a deal to become the best payed player and when they were failing to do that De Gea hired someone (we don't know who) to do it instead which they successfully did. This unknown party told DDG during these negotiations not to tell Mendes or Alvarez what was happening

That the brunt of it?

I can see why Alvarez would feel betrayed but that's business, DDG has to look after number 1 and if Alvarez and Mendes weren't getting him the deal he wanted he's perfectly entitled to hire someone who will

 

[Glorio]

Regardless of relationship, he's still overstepping the bounds of their relationship. His position at Manchester United is Goakeeper Coach. Not contract negotiator or legal councel. His workplace is Carrington.

Not to mention that we've had cases where players have been banned because they've told a family member their contract negotiation details, and the person has selfishly gone and placed a bet before it went public.

If I recall correctly, it happened to Sturridge didn't it?

 

[Adisa]

Its a ridiculous relationship between player and coach. Doesn't sound professional.

 

[The Original]

Regardless of relationship, he's still overstepping the bounds of their relationship. His position at Manchester United is Goakeeper Coach. Not contract negotiator or legal councel. His workplace is Carrington.

But he came specifically to work with De Gea. He came for the personal relationship and therefore if he overstepped the boundaries of his work relationship, it would have been at the very moment he came.

 

[Tom Cato]

But he came specifically to work with De Gea. He came for the personal relationship and therefore if he overstepped the boundaries of his work relationship, it would have been at the very moment he came.

You can be friends with someone without being privy to personal information. You can absolutely be a goalkeeper coach without expecting to be privy to all personal information.

Emilio expected himself as entitled to know what De Gea was signing before he did it. De Gea felt differently. Now he's hurt and decided to leave. And that's really all there is.

Personally i can still be friends with my friends even if they don't tell me that they're buying a house until after they do it. It's really based on what you expect the friendship to be. Emilio obviously felt they had some special intimate friendship going. Perfect example of someone who is steered by his emotions.

 

[tenpoless]

I learned that he had renewed behind my back

Yeah, so what's the problem then? it's not like De Gea was bad mouthing him like "I don't want Emilio to coach me anymore, replace him".
Now that would've been disrespectful and disloyal.

 

[GDaly95]

I read this and I must wonder: What the actual feck does a fecking goalkeeper coach have to do with David De Geas contract extensions. That is nowhere near his job description.



This is so absurd to read. He has NO rights to know anything about DDG's contract extensions or negotiations. What on earth is this level of entitlement?

This was my exact reaction too tbh.

 

[Red Company]

I don't think @Red Company is barking entirely up the wrong tree, although I don't think its the technical side where Alvarez leaving has hurt DeGea.

By all accounts Alvarez was more of a close friend to DeGea than a coach. Falling out with a close friend can affect someone's performance. If the tooing and froing over the new deal had already led to friction between them it might explain DeGea's concentration slipping. Like I said in my last post in this thread, football is a strange game. Lots of players depend on weird things like pre-match routines etc to get the best out of themselves. In DeGea's head maybe Alvarez was contributing more than we think?

Its crazy but we've seen it with other players or other sports or other areas. When a boxer loses someone from their camp who they rely on as a confidante or a singer loses their favourite back up dancer, out of nowhere, their performance can be affected. Maybe that's whats happened with DeGea?

Yes and there’s no harm in trying to make amends and bring him back if possible.

 

[georgipep]

Sounds like sour grapes to me. There are several reports that he was moved on because his relationship with De Gea was too friendly, resulting in training sessions were too relaxed.

The Athletic wrote about it several times. From december: [Source]
"Work on such aspects is done at Carrington, although it is understood that concern over Emilio Alvarez’s attention to detail ultimately led to a parting of the ways with the goalkeeping coach in September. Alvarez’s close friendship with De Gea, which started when the pair worked together at Atletico Madrid, meant they often socialised together in Manchester and it was thought United’s No 1 was not being challenged enough in training.

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer brought in Richard Hartis to rediscover the best from De Gea and we have seen a number of his trademark saves. But aerial authority is an aspect that requires work."

- David Ornstein also commented that the relationship was too friendly, and not work-focused enough.

-------

And upon a question about why De Gea was less consistent, United writer Laurie Whitwell said: "Hi Rhys, as I mention in the piece, the lack of a truly competitive No 1 battle after so many years of high performance has been cited by people I've spoken to as possible reason for a subconscious easing off.

Allied to this was his relationship with former coach Emiliano Alvarez, which some felt was too friendly rather than work-focussed. Alvarez left this season."

I don't know which is true but clubs feed bogus stories to the media all the time to control the narrative. So the fact that Ornstein or anyone else "had sources from the club" means nothing. The club lies just like any other entity in the world.

 

[iHicksy]

Amazing. The headline makes you think that he left because of De Gea's attitude to training was terrible or he wouldn't do as he was told. In reality, it's because the guy was his friend and got all moody that De Gea signed a new contract without him knowing about it so left in a sulk. Sounds very believable that we were more than happy to see him go.

For me, De Gea was his best under Hoek. He's not been the same since. I'd be interested to know how his passing has regressed so much since we bought him. I'm not sure if you guys remember, but in his first two seasons with us he was joked about that he was one of the best long passes at United. He could pick out anyone with a pinpoint pass anywhere on the pitch. It was cited as one of his biggest strengths.

 

[bsCallout]

De Gea cashed in on a big contract after failing for Spain and the big money move looking unlikely.

The people around him got their money too except Emillio.

This is one area I think Ole & co messed up with.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

I read this and I must wonder: What the actual feck does a fecking goalkeeper coach have to do with David De Geas contract extensions. That is nowhere near his job description.



This is so absurd to read. He has NO rights to know anything about DDG's contract extensions or negotiations. What on earth is this level of entitlement?

Alvarez is saying that he was instructed to be involved in the situation, rather than him barging his way in.

Solskjaer asked me every day to speak with Mendes in order to get David to renew. The press was asking every day about it and there was a lot of pressure. There was pressure to speak to David so he would stay and not listen to other offers. Solskjaer was very worried.

Whether or not that part is true, I don't know. Perhaps we will hear another side of the story soon.

If it is true, it sounds like Alvarez did what the club asked him to do. It sounds bizarre to be getting a goalkeeping coach to speak to the player's agent rather than the club doing it themselves.

 

[freeurmind]

Trying to look at it from Alvarez's perspective, maybe the relationship between GK coach and player is a bit like golfer and caddie? Especially if he moved from Atletico specifically to coach DDG, then I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a heads up from the player about their future plans. Him working with Mendes is abit weird though. Of course, we don't have David's side of the story.
Other worrying thing is that it seems like Mendes was having a say in who United hired to the coaching staff if this is true.

 

[clarkydaz]

How do you go behind your agents back getting a better deal?

 

[Sylar]

Its a weird story. But we only have one side of the story too. We need to get DDG side. And then it will probably be somewhere in the middle the correct story.

Regardless, DDG form has not been great. We need a coach to help him with concentration? when hes not challenged all game. As Schmeichel said, its a change in how hes used and that may be the reason. Maybe the lax style from being attacked all game to maybe once or twice? I dont see him ever improving his control of the box or being vocal to take charge like that though.

 

[DevilRed]

Its no coincidence that DDG started his dip in form right around the same time.

Sounds like Emilio was the one who nurtured him since he was a teenager. Hard to break bonds like that and not be affected.

 

[Based Adnan]

At first I was confused as well but from what I understand Mendes had agreed on a renewal with De Gea and the club only for De Gea to do Mendes dirty at the last minute and ask for more money based on outside council. This is why Mendes ended up dropping De Gea as a client.

Alvarez is close with Mendes and thought what De Gea did showed a lack of loyalty so didn't want to coach him anymore.