Emma Watson on Feminism

ThierryHenry

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Clearly most women don't take time off for their periods every month, that just doesn't happen. How are we even discussing this?
 

Pogue Mahone

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That's not something that's written into law though is it? There's nothing to say women have an inherent right to take monthly leave for their periods. Merely that they've (like men) got contractually allocated sick days. We're back into the realm of anecdotes and straw women. If they're taking too much unwarranted sick leave, then depending on the contract, you've probably got grounds for dismissal.

EDIT: SNAP. Basically what adex said.
Oh right. I thought yer man was talking about some peculiar local legislation which allows for additional time off work allocated to "menstruation leave" for all female employees.

Would be weird as feck but not the weirdest thing he's posted in this thread, so I took it at face value.
 

Sky1981

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That's not something that's written into law though is it? There's nothing to say women have an inherent right to take monthly leave for their periods. Merely that they've (like men) got contractually allocated sick days. We're back into the realm of anecdotes and straw women. If they're taking too much unwarranted sick leave, then depending on the contract, you've probably got grounds for dismissal.

EDIT: SNAP. Basically what adex said.
Yes they did. It's basically in the nation legislation.

If you can't simply understand that certain nations have different sets of law, I aint gonna bother talking about female and male.

PS: I get a degree in Business Management, and a Master degree in law... but hey, strawman talkingeh.
 

Mockney

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Yes they did. It's basically in the nation legislation.
How 'basically'?...It either is or it isn't.

If you can't simply understand that certain nations have different sets of law, I aint gonna bother talking about female and male.
If it's genuinely law in Indonesia that a woman can get monthly menstration leave, then fair does, I think that's bonkers. It's not somthing that the wordwide feminist movement is striving for though. Certainly not that I'm aware of. And not something that applies to most women in most workplaces. You're the one seemingly trying to apply your own experiences and opinions of women in the workplace to the general consensus. Going "I'm just showing how no one can be unbiased" whilst only showing that you can't be.

PS: I get a degree in Business Management, and a Master degree in law... but hey, strawman talkingeh.
I don't care how many degrees you have. If your argument rests on a list of made up possibilities and examples, it's a strawman.
 

Sky1981

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How 'basically'?...It either is or it isn't.



If it's genuinely law in Indonesia that a woman can get monthly menstration leave, then fair does, I think that's bonkers. It's not somthing that the wordwide feminist movement is striving for though. Certainly not that I'm aware of. And not something that applies to most women in most workplaces. You're the one seemingly trying to apply your own experiences and opinions of women in the workplace to the general consensus. Going "I'm just showing how no one can be unbiased" whilst only showing that you can't be.



I don't care how many degrees you have. If your argument rests on a list of made up possibilities and examples, it's a strawman.
That's the whole point, it is in the law. Surely even I don't make this up.

Not just menstruation leave, but paid menstruation leave.
 

Crono

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http://lmgtfy.com/?q=menstrual+leave

It's not exclusive to Indonesia.

In Indonesia, under the Labor Act of 1948, women have a right to two days of menstrual leave per month.[9]

In Japan, Article 68 of the Labour Standards Law states "When a woman for whom work during menstrual periods would be specially difficult has requested leave, the employer shall not employ such woman on days of the menstrual period."[10][11]While Japanese law requires that a woman going through especially difficult menstruation be allowed to take leave, it does not require companies to provide paid leave or extra pay for women who choose to work during menstruation.

In Korea, not only are female employees entitled to menstrual leave according to the Article 71 of the Labour Standards Law,[12] but they are also ensured additional pay if they do not take the menstrual leave that they are entitled to.[13]

The Philippines government considered the House Bill 4888, known as the Menstruation Leave Act of 2008, which was initiated by the Alliance of Rural Concern (ARC) representative. The bill aimed to grant mandatory menstruation leave to all private and government female employees, except those pregnant and menopausal, at half pay.[14]

In Russia, a draft law was proposed in 2013 to give women two days paid leave per month during menstruation.[15]

In Taiwan, the Act of Gender Equality in Employment gives women twelve paid days per year from menstruation leave.
Is it wrong to list :

Good looking as one of the requirements?

They do that on every ads in Indonesia, it's called "Berpenampilan Menarik" which literally means "good looking"
They used to do it here in Britain. I was clearing out some old junk recently and found some old newspapers. The job adverts were full of "Good-looking females required for..."
 

Alex99

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Possibly worth mentioning that menstrual leave isn't always provided for the benefit of female employees, and in many instances is part of legislation or work contracts based on the sexist notion that women are incapable of functioning whilst on their periods.
 

Randall Flagg

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Possibly worth mentioning that menstrual leave isn't always provided for the benefit of female employees, and in many instances is part of legislation or work contracts based on the sexist notion that women are incapable of functioning whilst on their periods.
How many days a year do you miss due to menstrual issues?
 

Pogue Mahone

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Is there some sort of weird religious thing about menstruating women being unclean? Vague memory about hearing something along those lines. Wouldn't be surprised if that legislation comes out of some sort of bigoted religious agenda to "protect" men from dirty, bleeding women (those last three words sound better in a Dub accent)
 

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They used to do it here in Britain. I was clearing out some old junk recently and found some old newspapers. The job adverts were full of "Good-looking females required for..."
I can't be the only one that thinks that it seems to be an unofficial requirement if you're a female presenter working at Sky Sports. Or for most TV shows now that I think of it.
 

Adam-Utd

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I can't be the only one that thinks that it seems to be an unofficial requirement if you're a female presenter working at Sky Sports. Or for most TV shows now that I think of it.
Of course. Half the guy's watch it 24/7 just to get a glimpse at Natalie Sawyers tit's.
 

Mockney

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http://lmgtfy.com/?q=menstrual leave

It's not exclusive to Indonesia.
Fair enough. Though half of those are actually restrictive of women.

Is there some sort of weird religious thing about menstruating women being unclean? Vague memory about hearing something along those lines. Wouldn't be surprised if that legislation comes out of some sort of bigoted religious agenda to "protect" men from dirty, bleeding women (those last three words sound better in a Dub accent)
I'd imagine so, considering the Phillipines Law states it's "mandatory" Which seems less women's rights, and more an enforced removal from work at half pay. While the Japanese one doesn't seem to require women who chose to work through their period to even be paid.
 
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My wife worked in an industry where looks were important - well almost everything I suppose so they do exist but must make up such a minute % of jobs - but a door attendant ???- well for a start we don't really have many jobs like that in the UK - the ones we do have would in my experience tend to be middle aged men wearing nice suits / uniforms - looking smart (and lets be honest thats what the uniform is for) and being courteous would be the key not being good looking.

Whilst your views are certainly valid from your own perspecive and may indeed provide some insight to the cultural views you have inherited and are surrounded by they don't translate well over here at all - they in fact sound rather outdated, sexist and in my opinion they make no sense - I would particularly be interested if you could expand on the race issue as I am wondering what jobs my race is best suited to?
You are very naive if you think there are not many, many people employed for their looks over others, in certain roles, every single day in the UK. It does 'make sense' depending on how you look at it.

I'm not saying it should happen, though. As a male consumer aged 27 I can think of a number of occasions where I and my peer group have bought a product or service based on the image of a particular business because of it's employee's. I can tell in these instances that these people have been handpicked as it would be almost impossible to select a group of people fairly that fit that model.
 

JustAFan

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So she wont ever be getting her baps out...shame

Who knows, some part may come along and she will be convinced that the artistic intregrity of her role requires here to get em out. Or her career could really tank and she might really need the money (which is unlikely since she seems smart enough to always have other options).
 

rcoobc

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It's not the fecking period. It simply means that out of the 20 days work, they'll took 2 more days off. That's 10% of the total work in a month, and that's the regulation.

It may not look much if you're running a cafe, try running a factory with 1000 workforce having

EDIT : and it's a fecking paid leave. Not to mention according to the regulations they are entitled for a 3months maternity leave (PAID LEAVE) And furthermore, what are you going to do for that 3 months? Hire a new one and sack him/her after she come back? Hired an unqualified temp worker to replace her? Who would want to work for a 3 mths job?
Did we really let Sky off of this
Ignoring the particular assumptions that Sky makes, he gives a decent insight in to the thought processes and the inevitability of discrimination (if not legislated against).
Yeah, it is interesting if nothing else,
 

rcoobc

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I don't think most women take time off when they're on that time of the month. Again anecdotal, but I work in a group with many females, and I don't see absences occurring monthly. My ex has painful cramps when that time comes, but she rarely took time off when she was at her last job.

Even if they took time off for that, everyone has an allocation of sick days. They may use sick days for that time, I may use my sick days for a hangover or man flu.
I have known of women to take time off work when things get very bad, but even if its painful most women struggle through it.

Especially if something important at work was coming up.

In a lot of offices, people don't take every holiday day they are entitled too, and certainly dont use every sick day they might have. The flexibility because of this is quite interesting really.
 

Arruda

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Is there some sort of weird religious thing about menstruating women being unclean? Vague memory about hearing something along those lines. Wouldn't be surprised if that legislation comes out of some sort of bigoted religious agenda to "protect" men from dirty, bleeding women (those last three words sound better in a Dub accent)
Yes, pretty sure I've read somewhere that they were considered unclean and should abstain from touching anybody during their menses and remain in relative isolation. A quick google search suggest it's from the Old Testament.

EDIT:

"When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening. Anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. Whoever touches her bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Whoever touches anything she sits on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, he will be unclean till evening" (Lev. 15:19-23).
 

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Is there some sort of weird religious thing about menstruating women being unclean? Vague memory about hearing something along those lines. Wouldn't be surprised if that legislation comes out of some sort of bigoted religious agenda to "protect" men from dirty, bleeding women (those last three words sound better in a Dub accent)
I recall being rather taken aback when visiting temples in Bali last year from reading the rules of entry, which included the usual things like covering limbs and such, but had a clear ban on the admission of menstruating women - written right there clearly and proudly for all to see. This fat western cnut couldn't believe what I was seeing at the first temple, and then seeing it again in similar words at a few others throughout the day. I expect the motivation behind this ruling would be based on similar terms to those you suggest in that post.
 

dwd

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Is there some sort of weird religious thing about menstruating women being unclean? Vague memory about hearing something along those lines. Wouldn't be surprised if that legislation comes out of some sort of bigoted religious agenda to "protect" men from dirty, bleeding women (those last three words sound better in a Dub accent)
Yes. I was in Bali recently with the Mrs and we went on a small guided tour of the Royal Family's temple. At the gates outside the guide turns to us all and announces that if any women are currently menstruating that they are not allowed to go inside the temple. We were all stunned and embarassed. I mean, who would admit to it anyway? 'Yep, I'm on the blob mate, I'll just wait for you all here until you get back.' The religion is Hindiusm btw but I'm not sure that applies to all temples and forms of the religion.

Edit: just seen the post above me haha!
 

Antisocial

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Edit: just seen the post above me haha!
Haha, the only thing that would've made my expression reading the "rules" even more bewildered would've been if a fecking tour guide had just announced that out-loud to everyone nearby :lol:
 

fishfingers15

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There are temples in India that women aren't allowed to enter. Brahmin families in India do not allow women to enter the kitchen for cooking during their periods. Golf clubs don't accept women as members. There are about a million things that makes things difficult for women, for the few laws that are beneficial for them. There's no need to tar 'bigoted' views of religion preventing women from doing things on their period days. If there are rules that makes it easier for women, then I'd support it, considering the things they put up with.

All these petty arguments are totally taking the focus away from a quiet brilliant speech by Hermione. I'm glad she's not concentrating on house elves anymore.
 

B20

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Clearly most women don't take time off for their periods every month, that just doesn't happen. How are we even discussing this?
I just came in to the thread. Will read more than one page now.
 

Silva

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I'd just like to re-iterate that Prometheus is really really terrible and perhaps the worst, laziest and dumbest Sci-Fi script ever written for it's comparable budget.

I might periodically remind you of this over and over for the next few weeks until I get it's idiocy out of my head.
It's so bad it makes you forget gender based inequality
 

DOTA

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It's so bad it makes you forget gender based inequality
Was it you who was saying about conditioning from an early age, few pages back? I'm going to go with yes and carry on...

Was thinking just now about some of the things ex's five year old girl comes out with. "That's not for boys, it's for girls" etc... her mum desperately tries to stop her thinking like that but when you watch the adverts on kids TV, they are just bombarded with that shit. It's good for business to encourage people to rigidly categorise themselves and others like that.