And just been given the captain's armband as well.
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England Discussion | Finish 4th
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
You Sir have quite an usual point of view at things, a very good one too.That's the final nail
Imagine English media if Ingerlund fails to get out of this group.
It's the most mediocre lineup we've had in years but i still think we will crawl out of the group and hang on until we meet the first really decent side. Criminal if we dont get out of that group actually.
He's not a Manchester United player so it won't be anything too bad. Gazza was the last one and he never got too much stick at least for his on pitch antics.
England should reach the quarters easily but we just seemed to have had this mental block in recent tournaments. Hopefully this Southgate squad although not the most talented on paper can overcome that and deal with all the expection heaped on them by the media and the English public.
I think we should start Vardy and Kane up front together - be that in a 3-5-2 or a 4-4-2.
Vardy is too good and too hot to leave to a bench role... and his skill set is different enough from Kane's that I think they could well together.
Plus both will get stuck in and work for the team, so that won't be an issue either.
I'd go:
Or something like that... could have Cahill in at CB and Walker as WB.
Guess the problem is that Dier and Henderson is such a bleh midfield... and Sterling isn't really a number 10, but I think Vardy and Kane together would be strong enough.
Vardy is too good and too hot to leave to a bench role... and his skill set is different enough from Kane's that I think they could well together.
Plus both will get stuck in and work for the team, so that won't be an issue either.
I'd go:
Butland
Walker ---- Stones ---- Jones
Lingard ---- Henderson ---Dier ---- Young
Sterling
Vardy ---- Kane
Walker ---- Stones ---- Jones
Lingard ---- Henderson ---Dier ---- Young
Sterling
Vardy ---- Kane
Or something like that... could have Cahill in at CB and Walker as WB.
Guess the problem is that Dier and Henderson is such a bleh midfield... and Sterling isn't really a number 10, but I think Vardy and Kane together would be strong enough.
That is quite uninspiring squad, only two players considered worldclass - Kane, Sterling, getting out of the group stage should be a must and then it depends if some of the players step up and have their day..
Not even sure Sterling is World Class (though thats just your based on your own definition i guess) just yet, but he's obviously an excellent footballer.
Him and Kane are definitely the top bracket...
Then you really only have Walker and Vardy below them in the very good category I'd say... then everyone else is in the various categories below that.
Where is the creativity? Are Hendoquets and Dierzil going to feed your three strikers?
Where's the creativity anyway? You only have Dele Alli (out of form) and Rashford (hit and miss in the creative stakes) other then that really.... you'd hope enough would come from Lingard/Young/Sterling and with Walker bombing out of the back 3...
Also Kane and Vardy between them could create a fair whack.
The squad in general doesn't have much creativity... which is why i would double-down with having two strikers who can create something from not much.
Still there must be something better than that? I reckon you can play a formation like that against Belgium or in the knock-outs, hoping that you somehow score on a counter attack, but Tunisia and Panama will probably be happy to park the bus (perhaps even Belgium to a lesser extend, if they are in a good position before kick off), putting the burden of possession on England and I don't see a line-up like that doing more than spaming crosses.
Sadly this is a sure fire way to get a result against England, we are generally hard to beat but can't break down sides that sit in. It is why embarrassing results against smaller nations are a possibility.
That is why I am hoping for our more technically gifted youngster to succeed, the likes of Mount and Gomes. We need players that can unlock defences. I worry already that Mount is turning into a goalscorer rather than creator like his hero Lampard.
Would much rather have RLC in ahead of Henderson. Not that I think it'll happen. Cannot have Henderson and Dier in CM together. Would immediately become the most unadventurous midfield in the tournament.......
Have you got Lingard as a wing back?
v Tunisia: 0-0
v Panama: 1-0
v Belgium: 0:2
Squeeze through in 2nd.
Last 16
v Poland: 1-2
Squad is the worst we have had on paper since 1994. However, if we have a decent team cohesion and spirit we could do okay - see Greece/Wales. We will play 5 at the back and the games will be boring and low scoring.
Southgate will keep his job (just).
v Panama: 1-0
v Belgium: 0:2
Squeeze through in 2nd.
Last 16
v Poland: 1-2
Squad is the worst we have had on paper since 1994. However, if we have a decent team cohesion and spirit we could do okay - see Greece/Wales. We will play 5 at the back and the games will be boring and low scoring.
Southgate will keep his job (just).
Reckon they'll do ok, quarter finals. Decent side, people have gone far too the other way with England really, 180'd in the other direction to the point most the players are underrated a lot. As evidenced by the amount of people who thought Raheem Sterling was a pile of shite for example when he was clearly one of the best players in the world his age.
The problem with the last two tournaments was as much Hodgson deciding to throw away 2 years of work and go maverick come the final tournament which people seem to think means England will never win a game again at a tournament.
The problem with the last two tournaments was as much Hodgson deciding to throw away 2 years of work and go maverick come the final tournament which people seem to think means England will never win a game again at a tournament.
Realistically, England should be looking to get to at least the quarter finals, with anything after that being a massive bonus.
They shouldn't have much trouble getting out of the group and will be looking at getting 6-9 points (although I'm predicting a slip-up against one of Panama or Tunisia).
Should they proceed to the knockouts, their group position shouldn't matter too much when it comes to their last 16 opponents because they'll be up against a team from Group H (Poland, Senegal, Colombia, Japan), all of which England should be considered favourites against. Colombia and Poland the likely qualifiers, I think (no real idea of the quality of Japan and Senegal this time around).
Should they find their way into the quarter finals, it doesn't really matter where they finish in the group because it'll be a team from Group E or F, likely the winners, therefore likely one of Brazil or Germany.
My actual prediction is a disappointing Last 16 elimination after coming 2nd in the group though.
They shouldn't have much trouble getting out of the group and will be looking at getting 6-9 points (although I'm predicting a slip-up against one of Panama or Tunisia).
Should they proceed to the knockouts, their group position shouldn't matter too much when it comes to their last 16 opponents because they'll be up against a team from Group H (Poland, Senegal, Colombia, Japan), all of which England should be considered favourites against. Colombia and Poland the likely qualifiers, I think (no real idea of the quality of Japan and Senegal this time around).
Should they find their way into the quarter finals, it doesn't really matter where they finish in the group because it'll be a team from Group E or F, likely the winners, therefore likely one of Brazil or Germany.
My actual prediction is a disappointing Last 16 elimination after coming 2nd in the group though.
I hope the fact Kane is captain does not mean he stays on the pitch the entire game irrespective of how he is playing. Southgate has shown he has a mind of his own so far so hopefully he doesn’t get into the cult of the captain which surrounded the likes of Rooney, Gerrard and Beckham.
Predictions for England - QFs. Then a narrow loss to the first strong team they play due to an inability to create enough chances.
Predictions for England - QFs. Then a narrow loss to the first strong team they play due to an inability to create enough chances.
This is why a lot of people wanted Wilshere even though he's not done anything of note for years. He can at least dribble fairly well and would look keep the ball moving quickly. RLC fits that profile too but I see very little chance of him dislodging those two. This has been his first senior season where he's started games with any sort of regularity.
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Well, after getting kicked out by Iceland, one of the major criticisms leveled against the manager was that Wilshere, who had been unfit and lacking minutes, should not have come on as an attacking sub, or even be in the squad. Guess Southgate doesn't want to repeat his predecessor's mistakes.
We'll win the group imo. Belgium are nothing special either despite their star names.
He's been playing a fair bit this (calendar) year and doing reasonably well, no? Can't say I've paid much attention to him, I'm basing this of Arsenal Fan TV
Skill won't be enough. Team spirit is the key. They need to really play for that shirt and be more than the sum of their parts. That's Southgate's job.
Talk to one another. No fecking earphones!
Talk to one another. No fecking earphones!
I don't understand how Southgate can name a team that has only 2 centre midfielders with Henderson and Dyer. Sure, Delph "used to be" a central midfielder but he's been a LB whenever he sees the field for City now. Because of that lack of depth at that position, I think Wilshire should have been picked. Same goes for Milner. In fact, I'd rather have Milner on the field than Henderson...
Maybe this would work? (Updated your formation)
Should sit deep and hit on the break, with the pace of Vardy and Sterling, rather than attempting to play pretty possession football without even bringing the likes of Wilshere or Shelvey who can unlock a defence from midfield.
This is why I would've brought Smalling, as I think he's England's overall best defender and playing out from the back is pointless when you don't a midfield comfortable on the ball to do it.
For all the talk of England playing a more "continental" possession style for the last decade or so, there's no point attempting to play that style without the players. International football more than any other level is about gelling a group of players with certain skillsets into a certain system to try and get a cohesive team unit playing.
This is why I would've brought Smalling, as I think he's England's overall best defender and playing out from the back is pointless when you don't a midfield comfortable on the ball to do it.
For all the talk of England playing a more "continental" possession style for the last decade or so, there's no point attempting to play that style without the players. International football more than any other level is about gelling a group of players with certain skillsets into a certain system to try and get a cohesive team unit playing.
I'd play Loftus-Cheek or Lingard as a 10 over Sterling in that system. Probably Alli too. I like Sterling, but I think that's a tough role for him. Maybe against Tunisia or Panama, but not a tougher game. Then you can have Vardy run around for 60 minutes and have Sterling come on and replace him in a front 2, or for a CB (or the RWB and just move Walker to RB) if you're going for a goal and want to play a back 4.
Lingard has little wingback experience apart from some Van Gaal minutes a few years ago and if you're not getting his movement off the ball to get open, what's the point? Trippier and TAA are both better options there.
We'll beat Belgium and lose against either Tunisia or Panama.
It's a little risky if he replicates his Euro 2016 shitshow.
I doubt Kane will be taking corners this time (that’ll be Phil Jones of course) but I hope the fact he is captain doesn’t affect Vardy’s chances of getting on. Against the stronger teams (in other words, anyone other than Tunisia and Panama), a fast, direct striker who is used to playing on the counter will be very useful.
I like the thought of Kane and Vardy up front together but IMO it means one of Vardy, Sterling and Alli starts in a formation like that. None of them are capable of playing as a #10 and they'd be better as a companion up front for Kane.
Personally, think Southgate should stick with the system he deployed against Italy, and Netherlands, which was essentially
Pickford
Walker ---- Stones ---- LCB
----------- Dier
Trippier ---- Ox ---Lingard ---- Rose
Sterling ---- Vardy
The players emboldened played well in the system.
The players underlined were underwhelming
The players that were decent in italics
Switch Tripper with TAA.
Vardy should be starting, but Kane is captain.
Switch Rose with Delph
Not sure who I'd replace with Ox, possibly RLC
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My feelings
Beat Panama 2-0
Draw with Tunisia 0-0
Lose to Belgium 3-1
Go out by goal difference in the group.
Beat Panama 2-0
Draw with Tunisia 0-0
Lose to Belgium 3-1
Go out by goal difference in the group.
How big of a chance any of England's GK doing Karius?
Yeah I tend to agree with you here optimize your strengths using Kane and vardy in their best positions and get wide and some balls in the box and hope Kane has a good tournament
While uninspiring I still think ye will be difficult to beat and in international football that has sometimes proven enoigh.
Should easily get out of the group and then see what haplens
It's just the same as always for me. Going into the tournament, I'm rooting for England to do well. Then, after watching 1-2 games I'm scratching my head why you guys never seem to be able to deliver. I'm wating for England to prove me wrong, but for many years, your performances during tournaments just feel... deflated. And when you actually do play well, fate plays a horrible trick on you.
But at least this time around, we have VAR, so none of you will complain afterwards about a ball that VERY CLEARLY wasn't in.
But at least this time around, we have VAR, so none of you will complain afterwards about a ball that VERY CLEARLY wasn't in.
Not heard anything about a replacement yet, I wonder if Smalling will go on the standby list to replace Tarkowski. Southgate doesn't seem to rate Mike very much, so maybe not.
England look like a polo. Mint with a hole in the middle.