England Discussion | Finish 4th

[Neo_Mufc]

I don't think we can have it both ways. If we draw or lose to Tunisia and scrape through against Panama, it's typical England but then we beat both and some are like well they're shite teams.

Yes some people are taking the "It's coming home" mantra a little too serious but we've had nothing to shout about for a long long time.

Me personally, before we even got started I wanted us to thrash a team (Panama) and get past the group stages. Everything now is a bonus for me. If we lose we performed better than 2014 and have shown progress.

I have some concerns about this NT but they have the chance to prove me wrong on Saturday.

We're now playing Sweden in the 1/4s. I would sway it 60/40 in England's favour but then again I'm bias.

 

[Frank Grimes]

Erm... Aren’t Colombia on a plane home?

Yes but they didn't beat them. Officially the match is recorded as a draw.

 

[Snowjoe]

I've just noticed Walker, Loftus Cheek, Lingard and Henderson are a yellow away from a suspension for the semi final. I don't like the thought of losing Walker or Lingard especially.

Yellows get wiped at quarter finals so if we do make it through there shouldn’t be an issue.

 

[VojjE]

Agree that English players showed good mentality to turn the penalty shootout around but I was talking about the difference between English and Swedish media. But let me say this first. Recently Swedish media has lost so much credibility it’s unreal. Everything is political. A fair balanced view is almost impossible to find in these days and time.

Sadly our media is heading in the same direction as yours and this isn’t a good thing. But back to football.

Sweden has a history of being underdogs, that’s part of the Swedish set up. Without it the manager couldn’t justify 25-30% possession, long balls and a rigid 442 system. When Zlatan was around the NT tried to play more offensive and take control but as you probably know it didn’t work. Today (last weeks and so on) the Swedish newspapers and pundits makes references between the Zlatan era and today’s set up. It’s trendy to dislike everything connected to his style and mentality. This is how bad it is and most of it is underlying xenophobia and uncomfortable to witness.

So the Swedish media makes a point of the team being “Swedish”, that includes being humble and everything is all about the team. When the media talks about Andreas Granqvist it isn’t all about his football abilities, it’s more about his humble personality and what a great leader he is. From my perspective it’s over the top and sometimes just political makeup to justify their own beliefs.

Hopefully if my predictions are correct the Swedish media will start to hesitate about our chances and your will do the opposite. The Swedish team needs that because if your players are humble and focused you will win the majority of times, so we need you to lose your mind a little bit. That’s where your media will help us, I think.

Honestly, your analysis is very skewed and it seems that you see what you want to see.

When Zlatan left the NT it left a huge void. No one really believed that we would be able to compete at the highest level and that we would keep missing tournaments like under Hamrén. What Janne and the new NT has done has been nothing short of amazing in such a small timeframe and with the material he has to work with. We finally seem like a cohesive unit where everyone gives their all and believe in the gameplan. When you then compare that mentality with what we had under Hamrén it's easy to see that something has changed. The cliques in the troop have disappeared, there's a better mood all around. This along with all the success makes it very easy to like this new team. It's a very romantic ideal of hard work and comraderie that goes home well in a country that has its sports roots in associations (föreningar). You don't have to be the best, the fastest or the strongest. Just do your job and help the guy next to you until your legs give out.

It seems strange to me when you accuse the media of being xenophobic too. They have been immense in their support for players with foreign backgrounds, just see how they all reacted to the Durmaz-incident, and they have fawned over Zlatan for years. If the relation between him and the media has soured it's more than likely because of how he acted leading up to the world cup.

 

[0161_UNITED]

Yes but they didn't beat them. Officially the match is recorded as a draw.

Quality post.

 

[Barca84]

This is the beauty, you don’t even notice it yourself when you get carried away. Read the last sentence again if you don’t believe me @Barca84.

I see the problem for you here. If you think my last sentence there is me predicting England winning the WC then all that illustrates is your poor English comprehension. No wonder you misinterpret so much.

 

[Grinner]

I've just noticed Walker, Loftus Cheek, Lingard and Henderson are a yellow away from a suspension for the semi final. I don't like the thought of losing Walker or Lingard especially.

Henderson will only have himself to blame. His booking was brainless. At this point you play your strongest team and just hope that they don't get carded.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

I've just noticed Walker, Loftus Cheek, Lingard and Henderson are a yellow away from a suspension for the semi final. I don't like the thought of losing Walker or Lingard especially.

Henderson would be worst, by far. We have a dearth of quality in that area, it's a serious problem. I don't even rate him particularly highly, but the only real replacement for him would be Dier, who is a solid utility player but has not had a good season and nobody is really sure what his best position is. Henderson is hardly Scholes but he does have more technical ability than Dier, and can be relied upon to work hard and recycle the ball safely. Then I'd say Lingard would be the second biggest issue, his off the ball movement is excellent and we badly lack players in his role... especially with Alli's current fitness/form issues. Losing Loftus Cheek would leave us extremely bare in that area.

Walker however, I really wouldn't be worried about. I actually think Southgate is making a colossal mistake continuing with him at CB. I understand the logic (He can bring the ball out, and the fact he's rapid means he's able to cover the often ponderous Maguire) but he's simply not a CB, not even in a three. His biggest issue has always been that he is mistake prone, something which is less dangerous as a RB/wingback, but as a central defender? It can mean big trouble, as it nearly did last night. He's never in his career played anything like this role for either Spurs or City, he's obviously had a fantastic season as a wing-back but that's a completely different role. The biggest issue with losing him would be a lack of cover for Trippier, as TAA is not ready yet.

I really rate Southgate's work so far, I think he's done wonders in keeping the camp calm whilst also fostering a positive, confident mentality. I don't think he's a great manager at all, but I do think he's a man who knows the setup well and is well liked. I do however think he's making two huge mistakes with Walker & Sterling being shoehorned in to the lineup, the latter basically playing as a striker where his tendency to run in to brick walls and complete lack of composure is badly exposed. He's another player who has had a fantastic season but simply does not fit in to this setup and should be dropped, I rate him as a wide player but he cannot play centrally consistently well. This was obvious from the friendlies and group stage games.

 

[Sean_RedDevil]

I've just noticed Walker, Loftus Cheek, Lingard and Henderson are a yellow away from a suspension for the semi final. I don't like the thought of losing Walker or Lingard especially.

Henderson will only have himself to blame. His booking was brainless. At this point you play your strongest team and just hope that they don't get carded.

Henderson would be worst, by far. We have a dearth of quality in that area, it's a serious problem. I don't even rate him particularly highly, but the only real replacement for him would be Dier, who is a solid utility player but has not had a good season and nobody is really sure what his best position is. Henderson is hardly Scholes but he does have more technical ability than Dier, and can be relied upon to work hard and recycle the ball safely. Then I'd say Lingard would be the second biggest issue, his off the ball movement is excellent and we badly lack players in his role... especially with Alli's current fitness/form issues. Losing Loftus Cheek would leave us extremely bare in that area.

Walker however, I really wouldn't be worried about. I actually think Southgate is making a colossal mistake continuing with him at CB. I understand the logic (He can bring the ball out, and the fact he's rapid means he's able to cover the often ponderous Maguire) but he's simply not a CB, not even in a three. His biggest issue has always been that he is mistake prone, something which is less dangerous as a RB/wingback, but as a central defender? It can mean big trouble, as it nearly did last night. He's never in his career played anything like this role for either Spurs or City, he's obviously had a fantastic season as a wing-back but that's a completely different role. The biggest issue with losing him would be a lack of cover for Trippier, as TAA is not ready yet.

I really rate Southgate's work so far, I think he's done wonders in keeping the camp calm whilst also fostering a positive, confident mentality. I don't think he's a great manager at all, but I do think he's a man who knows the setup well and is well liked. I do however think he's making two huge mistakes with Walker & Sterling being shoehorned in to the lineup, the latter basically playing as a striker where his tendency to run in to brick walls and complete lack of composure is badly exposed. He's another player who has had a fantastic season but simply does not fit in to this setup and should be dropped, I rate him as a wide player but he cannot play centrally consistently well. This was obvious from the friendlies and group stage games.

All players have now zero yellow cards

 

[Liver_bird]

I think I read today that he's a major doubt.

Thats a shame. Major blow for Uruguay, had them as favourites .

 

[jmaggio]

All players have now zero yellow cards

Ah I forgot they got wiped. That makes me feel calmer

 

[Unlikely lad]

All players have now zero yellow cards

Nah, still miss the semis, get reset after the quarters if you're on 1 yellow though.

 

[Grinner]

FFS are they on yellows or not?

 

[Unlikely lad]

FFS are they on yellows or not?

They are.

 

[99withaflake]

They are.

Do yellow cards get wiped then once teams reach the semi final? So essentially, it doesn't matter who picks up yellow cards in this round? I know I should ask Google but this web page was open!

 

[cyril C]

On who will knock us out









Can’t be bothered finding anymore.

While Panama appeared to be an easy win, the Tunis game was almost a draw. England might be able to do better against Belgium if fielding best 11 but then think about extra time even if England did qualify for the group. The same path that Argentina went through.

 

[99withaflake]

While Panama appeared to be an easy win, the Tunis game was almost a draw. England might be able to do better against Belgium if fielding best 11 but then think about extra time even if England did qualify for the group. The same path that Argentina went through.

England were easily the better team against Tunisia, but missed lots of chances.

England were easily the better team against Panama, and converted lots of chance.

Belgium B team were easily the better team against England B Team, and deserved to win.

England were marginally the better team against Columbia, either team could have won it, but England scraped through.

 

[Yagami]

Was literally man handled all game, by Barrios and then Mina. Colombia didn't expend half as much energy on Lingard and Alli. Understandably as one break and Sterling will kill you. Not with goals but with his runs (and Kane will finish you off).

Created some good pockets of space for others, namely Lingard who kept mis-controlling it for some reason. Alli was like a zombie so it was up to Kane, Sterling and Lingard to do all the creative work.

He was. I remember a Colombian player literally on him, looking like he wanted a piggy-back ride, and Sterling still kept the ball under control. It was very impressive.

I do think he was the better of the three (Lingard and Alli) the other night. Mainly because the other two did nothing, though. I usually have no problems with his general play so that was fine, and that one run he had on the counter in which he set-up Lingard with a decent ball was good, too.

The only other player who I think could offer what Sterling does is Welbeck. I know, Welbeck isn't the most popular player, but he's just as good as Sterling at dribbling and keeping the ball under control in tight situations but, for England anyway, is one of our better goalscorers, too. I'm not saying we should drop Sterling for him, but if we were to drop Sterling due his lack of end product - which, for now, I'm not in favour of - then I think it should be for Welbeck over the favourable Vardy and Rashford.

 

[Judas]

Yellows get wiped AFTER the QF.

Never thought I'd say it, but Henderson would be the biggest loss by far, we have no one who can come in and do his job.

 

[tonnas]

Haha lads banter.

Thats not banter, as much as I like the English team and support them, if it was done in my country I would simply run them over..

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

Mera Joota Hai Japani Yeh Patloon Englishtani
Sar Pe Laal Topi Roosi Phir Bhi Dil Hai Swedish.

 

[Ibragol]

As a Swede I have a good feeling about this game. For almost two years Janne the coach has managed to inspire the team to always perform at a high level (based on the individual level of course, which is still way lower than the English players). But it's a damn good feeling knowing that at least the team will make a very good performance no matter what. Our goalkeeper and defence has been excellent as always, midfield decent (Forsberg can still do way better) and the attack has performed lower than average. There will be chances for us, because we are a feckin heavy team to face. If we can convert them into at least one goal England will suffer a lot I think.

It will be an extremely physical and tense game. Hopefully we can play like vikings and once again do a top performance. 50/50 game.

 

[CassiusClaymore]

Fitness concerns for Alli, Kane & Vardy then. Vardy won't play anyway and I think Kane will be fit. Alli I expect to miss out too.

Do you think Loftus Cheek will come in or would he be tempted to play Rashford further forward with Kane and drop Sterling deeper?

 

[The Purley King]

We'd be better off dropping Alli anyway. Has not performed anywhere near what he's capable of thus far. RLC should replace him.
Sterling has been under par too, but its going to be massively hot on Saturday, so maybe Sterling starts and Rashford comes on after 60 mins or so when some of the Swedes will be starting to feel the pace a bit.
Its crucial Kane is fit though. If neither he or Vardy can make it, guess it'll be Rashford up front, or Welbeck (gulp).

 

[Utdstar01]

Yellows get wiped AFTER the QF.

Never thought I'd say it, but Henderson would be the biggest loss by far, we have no one who can come in and do his job.

Not bringing that extra midfielder will probably bite us on the backside.

 

[El Zoido]

Phil Jones in midfield anyone?

 

[Judas]

Our squad looked unbalanced from day one, Southgate has to take the blame for that. Still if we can somehow get past Sweden, hopefully with Henderson not suspended, who cares.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Fitness concerns for Alli, Kane & Vardy then. Vardy won't play anyway and I think Kane will be fit. Alli I expect to miss out too.

Do you think Loftus Cheek will come in or would he be tempted to play Rashford further forward with Kane and drop Sterling deeper?

If Alli is not fit then Loftus Cheek will definitely start.

 

[Judas]

Dunno, he still started the last game and was clearly not fit. Southgate seems annoyingly loyal to starting him.

lets face it, even when fit, he's not done it in an England shirt so far.

 

[mufcneville]

Re. Welbeck above:

He'd be a nightmare for Sweden tbh. Movement etc. but mostly because of the fact that he scored the first ever goal at Friends Arena (friendly but still).

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[DOTA]

That's lovely.

 

[Minimalist]

Phil Jones in midfield anyone?

Go for it lad. Humour is the best medicine.

 

[horsechoker]

Tweet

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[Fridge chutney]

As a Swede I have a good feeling about this game. For almost two years Janne the coach has managed to inspire the team to always perform at a high level (based on the individual level of course, which is still way lower than the English players). But it's a damn good feeling knowing that at least the team will make a very good performance no matter what. Our goalkeeper and defence has been excellent as always, midfield decent (Forsberg can still do way better) and the attack has performed lower than average. There will be chances for us, because we are a feckin heavy team to face. If we can convert them into at least one goal England will suffer a lot I think.

It will be an extremely physical and tense game. Hopefully we can play like vikings and once again do a top performance. 50/50 game.

Will England mess it up? They always mess it up at some point!

Even if England play well I also see it as a 50/50, perhaps the Swedes as slight favourites to be honest. I've been impressed with Sweden to date. Decisive and clinical against Mexico, unlucky against Germany, and defensively very solid.

Sweden will have to watch out for Sterling if he turns it on, and Alli if he stops being a passenger, because they are quick and exploit space in the box well. Given that neither seem to be happening I don't think Sweden will have too much to worry about defensively, especially since England's greatest danger is aerial delivery which Sweden, from what I've seen, have coped well with.

That said , I'm sure the Swedish defense will not be thrilled to see Rashford come on in the 80th minute. He's dangerous and anything can happen when he's on point.

 

[marlowe78]

Henderson would be worst, by far. We have a dearth of quality in that area, it's a serious problem. I don't even rate him particularly highly, but the only real replacement for him would be Dier, who is a solid utility player but has not had a good season and nobody is really sure what his best position is. Henderson is hardly Scholes but he does have more technical ability than Dier, and can be relied upon to work hard and recycle the ball safely. Then I'd say Lingard would be the second biggest issue, his off the ball movement is excellent and we badly lack players in his role... especially with Alli's current fitness/form issues. Losing Loftus Cheek would leave us extremely bare in that area.

Walker however, I really wouldn't be worried about. I actually think Southgate is making a colossal mistake continuing with him at CB. I understand the logic (He can bring the ball out, and the fact he's rapid means he's able to cover the often ponderous Maguire) but he's simply not a CB, not even in a three. His biggest issue has always been that he is mistake prone, something which is less dangerous as a RB/wingback, but as a central defender? It can mean big trouble, as it nearly did last night. He's never in his career played anything like this role for either Spurs or City, he's obviously had a fantastic season as a wing-back but that's a completely different role. The biggest issue with losing him would be a lack of cover for Trippier, as TAA is not ready yet.

I really rate Southgate's work so far, I think he's done wonders in keeping the camp calm whilst also fostering a positive, confident mentality. I don't think he's a great manager at all, but I do think he's a man who knows the setup well and is well liked. I do however think he's making two huge mistakes with Walker & Sterling being shoehorned in to the lineup, the latter basically playing as a striker where his tendency to run in to brick walls and complete lack of composure is badly exposed. He's another player who has had a fantastic season but simply does not fit in to this setup and should be dropped, I rate him as a wide player but he cannot play centrally consistently well. This was obvious from the friendlies and group stage games.

I agree about Walker, Southgate I think has taken a major risk in playing him there. England's defence hasn't been under that much pressure up until now but I think it can get badly exposed against one of the better teams. France, for instance, I think would rip that backline apart.

I think Smalling should've been given a spot on the team. I'm probably biased because I'm a United fan but I think the back 3 would look a lot more solid with him there instead of Walker. You would lose some of the ball-playing ability that Southgate wants but he's the player you'd want defending against top-level forwards.

 

[MUFC OK]

Now that the dust has settled (temporarily) I have completely reassessed Englands chances in the competition. I think that shootout win will end up being the apex and I am concerned about the fitness of the players going into this one, carrying knocks and playing in the heat. I think we will struggle to break Sweden down at all and may need a penalty or set piece to narrowly win this one.

Prediction, a cagey game of few chances, with England frustrated whilst having most of the ball. 0-0 at half time and a goal from Sweden on 60 minutes, after which they park the bus and see out the match with England creating few clear cut opportunities. Sweden 1-0 England.

 

[Tomuś]

Thats not banter, as much as I like the English team and support them, if it was done in my country I would simply run them over..

He's being sarcastic, every country has it's own cretins but with the English ones we often hear it's booze and banter as an excuse. Like they used to come to Cracow and piss on the streets half naked, whistling at women.

Not saying the reasonably ones like you or anybody’s else on here would try to excuse them, of course.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Will England mess it up? They always mess it up at some point!

Even if England play well I also see it as a 50/50, perhaps the Swedes as slight favourites to be honest. I've been impressed with Sweden to date. Decisive and clinical against Mexico, unlucky against Germany, and defensively very solid.

Sweden will have to watch out for Sterling if he turns it on, and Alli if he stops being a passenger, because they are quick and exploit space in the box well. Given that neither seem to be happening I don't think Sweden will have too much to worry about defensively, especially since England's greatest danger is aerial delivery which Sweden, from what I've seen, have coped well with.

That said , I'm sure the Swedish defense will not be thrilled to see Rashford come on in the 80th minute. He's dangerous and anything can happen when he's on point.

Don't get how it's a 50/50, let alone Sweden favourites. Sometimes I feel like people go too far the other way in order not to seem like they overrate England.

Sweden are a solid side, nothing more. Impressive vs Mexico and a broken Germany, but barely looked like they could play football against South Korea and were outplayed by an average Switzerland side but won due a deflected goal. They have nobody in their squad that worries me, except maybe Forsberg. Their forwards couldn't hit a barn door. Colombia are a side with far more talent in the team (Cuadrado, Falcao, Muriel, Sanchez, Mina, Bacca etc vs..Forsberg?) , and far more recent success at tournaments (quarters in 2014). It's not like Colombia weren't also well organised.

England are clear favourites. Superior in pretty much every position with the bonus of a world class striker. That's not to say Sweden can't win, there have been far bigger shocks at this world cup, but it's obvious who has the superior team. You say Sweden won't have much to worry about defensively, who exactly should England be worried about? Two forwards playing for Toulouse and Al Ain? England will dominate the ball and have more opportunities than Sweden for sure, and whilst they are good at defending set pieces it only takes one to land near Harry Kane and it could be a goal. Switzerland didn't create much against them, but they had a few balls in which their extremely average forwards were incapable of converting, and Dzemaili wasted a chance from a decent position.

It'll no doubt be a tough slog of a game (It's a world cup knockout, rarely is there an easy game) and I don't expect England to win by more than one goal, but I do think they'll win, and I actually think it could be more comfortable than the Colombia game. Sweden will sit back and defend but offer nearly nothing in attack (Similar to Colombia, but with inferior players), the best they can hope for is penalties, and England have already shown they are capable of winning a shootout.

1-0 England in normal time is how I see it going, and with his current scoring record I can't see past Kane scoring.

 

[El Zoido]

Now that the dust has settled (temporarily) I have completely reassessed Englands chances in the competition. I think that shootout win will end up being the apex and I am concerned about the fitness of the players going into this one, carrying knocks and playing in the heat. I think we will struggle to break Sweden down at all and may need a penalty or set piece to narrowly win this one.

Prediction, a cagey game of few chances, with England frustrated whilst having most of the ball. 0-0 at half time and a goal from Sweden on 60 minutes, after which they park the bus and see out the match with England creating few clear cut opportunities. Sweden 1-0 England.

Yep, Sweden have conceded two goals so far in the tournament, while England have struggled to create anything from open play. England has also conceded a goal in every game so far. It doesn’t bode well, but maybe if we can grab an early goal it’ll open the game up. I think Southgate needs to switch things up, start with Rashford and RLC and raise the tempo.