I'm Irish and I never called Southgate clueless. I think he's done well.
England Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
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I agree. Do you have any evidence that Rashford is not arsed other than 5 second clips of him apparently not tracking back that could be down to a lot of things, like tactical instructions, or maintaining shape, etc.?
It's a golden chance for Engerland. You have a very talented generation with top talent in almost every position. Clearly a top 3 favourite to win ths Euro and the next WC.
So you think there is nothing wrong with him? There is something badly wrong. How can you go from a season like the last one to this? If it is the manager, unfortunately he might not be rid of him as quick as he thinks. We all think the team set up is wrong, but a lot of our attacks are breaking down with him.
Never fails to amaze…. no matter how shit Rashford plays his ever decreasing fan club will adore him.I compared their profiles, do you know what that means?
Regarding Foden, he's absolutely not better than Rashford on the left. "miles ahead"
Remember when Scholes was pushed out wide for England 20 years ago? Foden on the left would be similar to that. Shoehorning the biggest names into the lineup, disregarding team balance, roles, profiles, passing angles, etc.
But I bet you consider Southgate clueless...
Not entirely sure if “Southgate clueless” but get the feeling you are.
I reckon Grealish will played left for England. In the same way that Sterling was an automatic choice for ages, I think he’ll be trusted to keep the ball, win free kicks and be solid. He wouldn’t want the Villa Grealish but the disciplined City Grealish really fits how he sets a team up.
You still haven't answered why my opinion is wrong and listed the reasons Foden is a better left winger than Rashford in international football.
I don't know, but I don't buy it at all that he doesn't care, or that he wants the manager sacked, nor that he is lazy.
Marcus, is that you?
No point comparing Foden to Rashford ….there is no comparison. Foden being an up and coming World class footballer and the other a has been.
So you can't answer
I‘ve already answered. Put an other way… if the squad is limited to 23 I don’t see your precious Rashford will make even make the squad.
The shit will surely hit the fan if he‘s selected.
I know Rashfords been shit but Saka apart who had real pace? I
Saka has pace but he isn’t a runner like Rashford or Gordon. Neither are Foden and Palmer. So it will be pass-pass-pass and 0 pacey wingers making runs in behind if it was up to the posters I’ve been arguing with in here.
I think it will be Foden on the left. Saka has the RW spot secured and Foden has played on the left for England (although he's not been very good) and he's played for City on the left too. In tournament and end of season form could change things though but I think it's one of the positions up for grabs.
@Rojofiam is right in that Mbappe and Rashford have similar profiles in terms of playstyle and strengths, that's all they're arguing in that post, not that Rashford is as good as Mbappe. Also agree that after next tournament is when you should be phasing the older players like Trippier, Walker, Maguire, Pickford etc. out. It's harder with Pickford because Ramsdale isn't playing (don't think he's good enough anyway) and Trafford has had a very up and down season (He'd be the one I'd phase in though).
Rashford has been tosh this season though and Gordon has had a much stronger one. Him and Foden are the ones that will be competing for the starting place unless Rashford has an incredible last 8ish games.
Rashford has been tosh this season though and Gordon has had a much stronger one. Him and Foden are the ones that will be competing for the starting place unless Rashford has an incredible last 8ish games.
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Rashford!! I’m shocked. He might not even make the squad at this rate…never mind the starting 11
Southgate picks his team bases on England performance isn't it. That's why Maguire was starting when he was dropped from ManUtd team, Kalvin Phillips started and played regularly for England without ever kicking the ball for City.
There won't be lot of changes in the national team squads, just couple of changes. Usually managers stick to same group.
Southgate will be gone after the Euros.
He might, I mean before the big tournament there won't be much changes.
Hence why I said after the tournament is when you should phase those players out.
Yeah, i wasn't arguing against your point. Adding to your point.
People expecting lot of changes before Euros will be disappointed.
Agreed, time for that was a few international breaks ago. There will be subtle changes though like Mainoo likely getting a call up and perhaps Palmer in with a shout. Depends really on the 23 or 26 man squad decision.
You’re fighting a losing battle with this one.I compared their profiles, do you know what that means?
Regarding Foden, he's absolutely not better than Rashford on the left. "miles ahead"
Remember when Scholes was pushed out wide for England 20 years ago? Foden on the left would be similar to that. Shoehorning the biggest names into the lineup, disregarding team balance, roles, profiles, passing angles, etc.
But I bet you consider Southgate clueless...
an out of position Scholes would be far better than Rashford on the left at club level…let alone the competition he faces currently at international level
a square peg round hole player like Scholes or Foden gets my vote every time ahead of the shit that MR has been serving up for 12 months
The answer you’re after is pretty straight forward.
Rashford has been shit for 12 months and subsequently an in form Foden is miles ahead.
rewind 2 years and the case may have been different. Football moves on. So should you. In that two years Foden has gone from strength to strength whilst Rashford has regressed
Where we are today, Rashford won’t be starting. I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t even make the squad... Although Southgate does keep players around the squad he’s familiar with (Henderson)
If Southgate doesn't get this squad to win something then that's nothing short of failure. He has more top players at his disposal than I can ever recall, and many of other 'top' Euro International teams (Spain, Germany, Netherlands, Italy..) are all trying to find their next crop of talent. Even France are in a transition of sorts.
England start favourites at Euro 24. Look at the Group stage we're in! Serbia, Denmark and Slovenia! I mean come on.....
It’s worse and easier than that really. Rashford isn’t so much out of form, as completely shot mentally. Even his poor form is ranging from tumescent to average. It’s not like he’s fluctuating between his top level and average.
Somethings not right there. Everyone seems to accept it. Under no set of circumstances would you invite that into a travelling squad.
@Pughnichi you are giving me the same empty answers as other posters in this thread. I don't have the energy to make my points for no reason again, just to be hit back at with a 3 letter reply saying "Foden is better", as if you had no reading comprehension
You can read my posts again and tell me where I'm wrong, instead of these 1 sentence replies. Other than that, I won't bother with this further, sorry
You can read my posts again and tell me where I'm wrong, instead of these 1 sentence replies. Other than that, I won't bother with this further, sorry
I completely agree. I need to go back at least 30-40 years in time to remember an english squad with such high ceiling. And even so, in terms of technical ability this squad is way better.
The number of top quality solutions is enormous: you can rotate 5/6 players and still have a fantastic starting eleven. Praises for the EPL investment: bringing the best players (and youth players) in the world to the country clearly paid dividends in terms that local English players have grown in a very competitive and talented environment.
This is a fantastic crop and it will probably be even better at the next WC. It will be a fail not reaching the finals of both Euro and WC if you bare in mind the talent at disposal.
France squad has a lot of potential youngsters (they are probably the NT with more young talents right now), but most of them lack experience. Spain lack balance and the new generation is not bringing quality for the positions they urgently need.
And Germany has some good names but despite having some players doing good seasons, I can't see them wining it, they lack players who can be self-sufficient.
My tuppence, England have failed in the past in part because they've shoehorned the "best" players in to positions that don't suit them just so they are in the team, Scholes/Gerrard/Lampard being a prime example.
Is Foden a better player than Rashford currently, of course he is, but he's not a winger, he shouldn't be competing with him for a place in the team, Rashford is competing with Grealish, who isn't really a winger but plays there for his club, and Gordon who is a winger, Southgate will pick Gordon or Rashford and because of his track record I expect Rashford will win that battle, I doubt he'll start though!
Is Foden a better player than Rashford currently, of course he is, but he's not a winger, he shouldn't be competing with him for a place in the team, Rashford is competing with Grealish, who isn't really a winger but plays there for his club, and Gordon who is a winger, Southgate will pick Gordon or Rashford and because of his track record I expect Rashford will win that battle, I doubt he'll start though!
On current form, Rashford will be lucky to make the plane let alone the bench.
There are far better players than him including Palmer. Far better.
Exactly what the poster was referring to in his first paragraph
Palmer, who plays on the right, so back to shoehorning players in to positions they don't usually play, Rashford on form shouldn't be anywhere near the squad but who else is there that plays actually as a LW is there that's better, Gordon maybe but that's it
Agreed and I also think it’s the strongest England squad I’ve witnessed since decades, they’re correctly bookies favorites for the Euros. It has to be said that there are still many weak points in the team, especially the central midfielder spot with decent defensive skills (only Rice), the defense and GK aren’t really great and the manager is tactically subpar. Still, competition isn’t anything to write home about, France are second favorites but I’d say they look worse than in the last years.
Good thing for England is that it’s strength is mainly with the players that still have a couple more tournaments in them (bar Kane) so Saka, Foden and Bellingham will still have a couple of shots for the trophy
I would take Grealish as a better option than Rashford. Not greedy and better team player.Exactly what the poster was referring to in his first paragraph
At least that's a left winger over a left winger. My choice is still Rashford or Gordon.
Pep actually plays Foden wide though. It's not quite the same as Scholes.I compared their profiles, do you know what that means?
Regarding Foden, he's absolutely not better than Rashford on the left. "miles ahead"
Remember when Scholes was pushed out wide for England 20 years ago? Foden on the left would be similar to that. Shoehorning the biggest names into the lineup, disregarding team balance, roles, profiles, passing angles, etc.
But I bet you consider Southgate clueless...
If if it was a choice between Rashford or Foden on the left, I would pick Foden. With Grealish back though, it's not a question - Grealish should start on the left.
So either you go Bellingham deeper and Foden #10, or Bellingham 10 with Foden right, or you change the formation to a back 3 to accommodate another deeper midfielder with Rice without losing an attacking player
Well we're about to see how pass-pass-pass with 0 pacy wingers works, compared to very pacy wingers making runs in behind in the Man City-Real Madrid game. Should be interesting.
Pep prefers ball retention from his wingers ever since signing Haaland. Keeping possession and creating the most amount of chances for the Norwegian is what he seems to have chosen over pacey wingers making runs behind, at least in my opinion. That's why he let Sterling go. He does have Doku though as a breaker against low-blocks. I don't think tonight's lineups are a good example here. Also, England won't be dominating their opponents like City will dominate Madrid tonight. Especially stronger sides, like France. It will be much more similar to how we've played these last 10 years, transition-heavy approach.
Foden at #10 is probably the best position for him. However, is it worth putting Bellingham deeper in exchange? I don't hate it, but then Mainoo misses out, most likely.
The starting lineup isn't going to be the same every game, either way, so it's somewhat of a pointless discussion. Foden should get plenty of game time even if he isn't in my personal strongest XI. Same with Palmer.
Grealish and Saka on the wings could work, IMO, but then Saka has to be the one making runs in behind more often instead of coming short for the ball and cutting in, or creating chances, which is his strong suit IMO. He also has good ball retention, which is one of the biggest strength of Grealish, especially his City version. That's why I would prefer a runner on the left, with pace and power, and letting Saka play to his own strengths on the other side of the pitch.
I think England can play possession football pretty well tbh, I mean the front 6 I'm talking about is basically just Arsenal and City players, and then Kanes who's the perfect forward for it and Bellingham, who perhaps is the only one not so used to playing heavy possession style football.
Kyle Walker said recently that this is the goal, not to be a transitional team, so I'm kind of picking players based on that assumption. So for me, at least in most games, we should double down on the ball retention side. Gordon, Rashford, Bowen, etc will struggle against teams in really deep blocks - they don't really give the space for those type of players to be effective. Whereas Saka and Grealish are used to playing that kind of game every week. Doku is different, his asset is actually dribbling through players in the box. Still good for a possession based team but these players don't have that kind of ability. Even still Doku has struggled to adapt (but I think he'll be really dangerous when he gets used to playing this way).
I can see your point, against a team like Spain or France where you might struggle to control it, you'd want faster options to help with counters. I'd still probably choose Gordon for that over Rashford. In the game last weekend where Newcastle thrashed us, Gordon played on the right and was probably MOTM, so I think he can be an option for either wing. And then you'd have to choose between Rashford or Bowen probably, if it's a 23 man squad I don't think both can go.
Still have issues at CB and also don't possess that player in midfield to put his foot on the ball
It's the acid test for Southgate: how to fully accommodate the talent at his disposal. Good international managers find a way when presented with a plethora of quality in similar positions. For example, Spain in 2008-2012 had half a dozen world-class central midfielders. They didn't just pick 3 - they played 5 or 6 of them and turned a tactical problem into a unique strength. Brazil in 2002 had 5 world-class attack-minded players: they switched to a 3-5-2, pulling in an extra CB and two holding midfielders to let the rest run riot. The extra CB even gave more licence to their next top player Lucio to have more impact. Even Scotland with two outstanding left-backs have found a way, switching to 3-5-1-1 and playing both at LCB and LWB. Southgate's shown some craft to make use of his various top right-backs by switching to a 3-4-2-1 at Euro 2020, but generally then and since they still don't look like more than the sum of their parts.