England V India

[Spoony]

Getting slightly wound up there eh Spoony?

I'm actually debating with your man.

But I've realised it's not an easy thing to do, with obtuse people.

 

[Slabber]

I'm actually debating with your man.

But I've realised it's not an easy thing to do, with obtuse people.

I can't be arsed to go through the old threads but I'm pretty sure Amol's been bragging for months about how we'd get hammered in India and how great they are.

He's changed his tune a little.

 

[Dowders_Jnr]

This is an internet forum. If you take things seriously out here, you must be one tight bugger in real life. Im agreeing with you guys on most things, but people here are just very excitable and dont like people with differing opinions.

Where were your teams guts go when you were chasing a 150 odd run total in Pakistan? Did your team come back from being 1-0 down in the test series with a positive repsonse, or continue to have a poor tour? Dont get all spastic and take this personally, im making a point, which is that you shouldnt jump to conclusions. If you've supported English cricket over the last decade or even over the last 4 years, you would have known that there wasnt a bigger bunch of bottleless lot than the English team. Even when we went there last it was the same case, they never used to perform in big tournaments, never won anything of significance in one day tournaments, and English batting collapses were always around the corner. We had people like Sachin, Dravid, Ganguly, Kumble who were all world class and had tons of fight, and brought it at the world cups and all. Now finally England have found the likes of Flintoff, Trescothic etc who have that. A year or two back, when we were clearly only behind Australia, we were similar, along with Sachin and co. the younsters were coming through and they had no fear(eg. Natwest Final). It all happens in phases, im sure we'l get back to that standard, Chappel and Dravid just need some time.. little things make the difference.

One glaring problem is our batting in the 4th innings to save test matches. Its not a huge problem because being so obvious im sure we will rectify it. But it has cost us 3 series'. Against Pakistan in India we just needed to bat a day out to win the series, same here and also in Pakistan(although that was day 4). I know it is difficult on the last day in India, but in those situations we really seem to struggle. More the mindset than anything. I think the one-day culture of the sub continent has to do with it. The likes of Dhoni, Yuvraj and a couple others need to get into the test mode, learn to occupy the crease. Too many disgraced themselves slogging when the team needed patience. So thats one thing to work on, but i cant really worry much about our batting, which has carried us for so many years and im sure will get back on track.

I take nothing you say seriously, you have this near phenomenal ability to make the most anal statements. What I'm saying is that the amount you guys seem to be getting wound up is an indication of the fact that we're getting ahead of you and that you don't like it. You seriously need to pull your head out of your arse mate.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

What I'm saying is that the amount you guys seem to be getting wound up

You seriously have some issues. You're getting all worked up and telling me to calm down. Obviously i actually posted something of relevance in response to your post, but you chose to ramble on about the least important part of mine. Well done.

 

[Dowders_Jnr]

You seriously have some issues. You're getting all worked up and telling me to calm down. Obviously i actually posted something of relevance in response to your post, but you chose to ramble on about the least important part of mine. Well done.

I retorted to the part that was directly addressed to me, in the same way you have responded to me. Spoony was right, you are obtuse.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I thought you didnt take what i said seriously?

The more bilge your fingers spout out on here, the more seriously I take it.

 

[Dowders_Jnr]

I thought you didnt take what i said seriously?

I don't, thats why its fun seeing you come back each time and looking more ridiculous....but of course, if I am addressed by anyone, credible or not, I am likely to reply.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I don't, thats why its fun seeing you come back each time and looking more ridiculous....but of course, if I am addressed by anyone, credible or not, I am likely to reply.

Poor response. Next time, try not contradicting yourself.

 

[Dowders_Jnr]

Poor response. Next time, try not contradicting yourself.

So says the master of contradiction himself.

 

[Dowders_Jnr]

Where were your teams guts go when you were chasing a 150 odd run total in Pakistan? Did your team come back from being 1-0 down in the test series with a positive repsonse, or continue to have a poor tour? Dont get all spastic and take this personally, im making a point, which is that you shouldnt jump to conclusions. If you've supported English cricket over the last decade or even over the last 4 years, you would have known that there wasnt a bigger bunch of bottleless lot than the English team.

In response to this....the English team now compared to the last decade is hugely different, different personal almost entirely, so that point is pretty invalid given the teams form over the last few years.

As for Pakistan, the team was in complete disarray and yes, we crumbled. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe I already admitted that we were completely shite on that tour. There was also an element of hangover from the Ashes given it was our first series since last summer and the team we had out were perhaps a bit cocky. A justifiable claim given that Pakistan weren't really in the game the first 4 days, until of course we fecked up on the final day.

We were faced with potentially a smiliar predicament in India, but an infusion of new blood in the team has seemed to give a few people a needed kick up the arse and is sure to make a few of the absentee's think about how secure their place is. There wasn't the same competition going into Pakistan, hence complacency.

But the team rediscovered some spirit in India and throughout the series looked a more together unit than India. For you to bring up the Pakistan tour as a counter argument to this is sensationally weak, and shows that you have nothing in this respect to say that shines a positive light on India.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

In response to this....the English team now compared to the last decade is hugely different, different personal almost entirely, so that point is pretty invalid given the teams form over the last few years.

As for Pakistan, the team was in complete disarray and yes, we crumbled. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe I already admitted that we were completely shite on that tour. There was also an element of hangover from the Ashes given it was our first series since last summer and the team we had out were perhaps a bit cocky. A justifiable claim given that Pakistan weren't really in the game the first 4 days, until of course we fecked up on the final day.

We were faced with potentially a smiliar predicament in India, but an infusion of new blood in the team has seemed to give a few people a needed kick up the arse and is sure to make a few of the absentee's think about how secure their place is. There wasn't the same competition going into Pakistan, hence complacency.

But the team rediscovered some spirit in India and throughout the series looked a more together unit than India. For you to bring up the Pakistan tour as a counter argument to this is sensationally weak, and shows that you have nothing in this respect to say that shines a positive light on India.

I wasnt trying to 'shine a positive light' on India you spastic. You're just going on confirming everything i claim. Yes, you did 'feck up' against Pakistan, on the final day didnt you? You should have won that test easily. Thats called bottling it. Quite like what we did against England on the final day. So talking so emphatically about how the English side has character which the Indian team doesnt, is pretty lame.

And im not talking about any English side of a decade back, i was talking about the English side that we played home and away 2 years back or so. This Indian team a couple of years ago had all the character a team could want, but now we've sort of lost the plot(in tests). It happens, teams go through these phases.

 

[Slabber]

This Indian team a couple of years ago had all the character a team could want

except the ability to win away from home...

 

[amolbhatia50k]

except the ability to win away from home...

True, i was talking about character. We didnt have the bowling attack at the time to win in countries like Australia and England. But still our batting carried us and all in all, for a team that was always rubbish away, those two tours went a long way to end that fear we had of playing away. And finally we beat Pakistan.

 

[Dowders_Jnr]

I wasnt trying to 'shine a positive light' on India you spastic. You're just going on confirming everything i claim. Yes, you did 'feck up' against Pakistan, on the final day didnt you? You should have won that test easily. Thats called bottling it. Quite like what we did against England on the final day. So talking so emphatically about how the English side has character which the Indian team doesnt, is pretty lame.

And im not talking about any English side of a decade back, i was talking about the English side that we played home and away 2 years back or so. This Indian team a couple of years ago had all the character a team could want, but now we've sort of lost the plot(in tests). It happens, teams go through these phases.

If you've supported English cricket over the last decade or even over the last 4 years, you would have known that there wasnt a bigger bunch of bottleless lot than the English team.

Whether or not thats what you meant, its still what you said. So try to be more clear in what you're saying.

You're the spastic, I didn't even say you were trying to shine a positive light, but its true that you had nothing to say in order to reflect positively on India, and thats what I highlighted. This is after all a thread pertaining to England and India, so I would expect anything that is said on this subject to remain relatively close to the main protagonists. Not however, Pakistan which you seem so eager to talk about every time an aspect so evidently deficient in your team is called into question. I've addressed the Pakistan issue repeatedly, yet you seem to forget that in all but one series of the last few years, we have remained undefeated, and in that time the team has shown immense character. Character and team spirit that I believes sets us apart in many ways on the Test scene. Pakistan was a blip.

Character, particuarly in Test cricket is displayed through how a team plays when faced with adversity. We have results to back up our case about the strength of our team when faced with difficult situations, home or away from home. Your team however barely shows this away from home, and showed a worrying lack of it at home against a depleted side. In comparison to England, I think India lacks leaders, people that will stand up and be counted when the pressure is on.

This is an opinion. What you need to do to prove otherwise is instead of calling it 'lame', and regurgitating the same stuff about Pakistan, back up an argument that India has as much character as England and base it on something substantial. So far you have failed to do so, yet you persist.

 

[Red-Indian]

Why has this thread gotten so childish? Its like 'my daddy's stronger!!"

 

[Slabber]

Why has this thread gotten so childish? Its like 'my daddy's stronger!!"

Because Amol100 is acting like a big baby, becuase his idol, Gandhi, wears a nappy.

 

[Red-Indian]

Ah well, though that barb is well off the mark. At his age, I seriously doubt if Amol cares in the least about anything you say regarding Gandhi. You'd have to say it to someone my dad's age to get a reaction.

Perhaps you could call Indira Gandhi a slut (or was that Crappy I had the debate with).

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Whether or not thats what you meant, its still what you said. So try to be more clear in what you're saying.

You're the spastic, I didn't even say you were trying to shine a positive light, but its true that you had nothing to say in order to reflect positively on India, and thats what I highlighted. This is after all a thread pertaining to England and India, so I would expect anything that is said on this subject to remain relatively close to the main protagonists. Not however, Pakistan which you seem so eager to talk about every time an aspect so evidently deficient in your team is called into question. I've addressed the Pakistan issue repeatedly, yet you seem to forget that in all but one series of the last few years, we have remained undefeated, and in that time the team has shown immense character. Character and team spirit that I believes sets us apart in many ways on the Test scene. Pakistan was a blip.

Character, particuarly in Test cricket is displayed through how a team plays when faced with adversity. We have results to back up our case about the strength of our team when faced with difficult situations, home or away from home. Your team however barely shows this away from home, and showed a worrying lack of it at home against a depleted side. In comparison to England, I think India lacks leaders, people that will stand up and be counted when the pressure is on.

This is an opinion. What you need to do to prove otherwise is instead of calling it 'lame', and regurgitating the same stuff about Pakistan, back up an argument that India has as much character as England and base it on something substantial. So far you have failed to do so, yet you persist.

First of all, i said 'if you have supported the English team over the last 10 years'. That obviously includes English sides of 3 or 4 years back. Unless you're support ran off for a little while.

We lack people that stand up when pressure is on? Dravid, Tendulkar, Kumble to name a few and usually Sehwag(having a bad run now). Ganguly can always come back, hes got plenty of fight. Pathan and Dhoni are going to carry Indian cricket for years to come, and i have no doubt in eithers character or ability.

Lets end this stale debate once and for all. As an England supporter obviously you're entitled to be happy with you're teams test form over the last couple of years. I would say you're ahead of India and Pakistan in that form of the game. But one dayers are obviously a concern.

From my end, i know we'v sort of dipped since maybe 2 years back. But im not really concern because a lot has happened since. We'v gone through a change in coach and captain, our most successful captain was chucked and our best cricketer ever constantly bothered by injuries and hence a lack in form. Chapell has then brought in a load of young talents, who i think have given a big boost to Indian cricket. I didnt think we had that much talent waiting in the wings. And then there is this ODI obsession. The subcontinent loves one dayers. And with that comes a demand for entertainment. Dhoni and co. fullfil that demand. But where this hurts us, is in test matches, where the mindset of our batsman doesnt seem to change. Either they batter the bowling around, or get bogged down. Its something you have to give time to the coach to work on. So im more excited about the future of Indian cricket than anything.