England vs Spain

[Inspectah deck]

Here you go THM, here is a lovely compilation of Wilshere from the single game against Barcelona. Single games are much better than multiple games as you get to see the true player and not just his best moments, so if you reply with a video make a single game.


If you had to compare him to two United current players, who would they be. Mine would be Park Ji Sung and Darren Fletcher. Wilshere is a terrier, he plays forward getting at the opposition and stopping them playing the game from deep. He doesn't give them much time on the ball, so he is perfect at disrupting a team that create opportunities from midfield.

Likewise his passing is often short, but can be backwards, forwards or sideways. His Hollywood passes are no where near as good and he isn't much of a play maker. He keeps the game ticking over, and can open up space with a pass and move for a more creative player to exploit.

So if I had to label him I would call him a cross between a ball winning midfielder and a box to box midfielder.

Strange choice of highlights to make your point. The team he is playing against is known to dominate every game. Against barcelona even bloody centre forwards appear to be defenders. His job in that game was to press well, break up play if possible, and release the ball quickly or move it forward with pace. Worked fairly well too.

If anything I think that video shows how adaptable Wilshere can be. I'm pretty sure if you posted up his highlights against a mid table team in the PL, where arsenal were dominating, his role will be completely different.

His natural playing style is more akin to iniesta as opposed to a being a ball-winner/box to box. He is just a very well rounded player, especially since Wenger put him in a more defensive role to improve the defensive side of his game, just like iniesta in his early days. IMO he is as good a player as it gets to build your side around.

 

[dumbo]

Beckham should still be playing in the heart of an England midfield, Walcott is the new Bergkamp and Wilshire a ball winning terrier.

Thanks again redcafe.

 

[kouroux]

"If you had to compare him to two United current players, who would they be. Mine would be Park Ji Sung and Darren Fletcher"
You couldn't be more wrong about Wilshere, the Barca match is a bit special.Every single one of Arsenal players had to work hard and specially the central midfielders.To have a chance of beating even the most creative players have to assume extra defensive responsibilities.
Wilshere isn't specialized in ball winning even if he can do it like any real CM should

 

[rcoobc]

Strange choice of highlights to make your point. The team he is playing against is known to dominate every game. Against barcelona even bloody centre forwards appear to be defenders. His job in that game was to press well, break up play if possible, and release the ball quickly or move it forward with pace. Worked fairly well too.

If anything I think that video shows how adaptable Wilshere can be. I'm pretty sure if you posted up his highlights against a mid table team in the PL, where arsenal were dominating, his role will be completely different.

His natural playing style is more akin to iniesta as opposed to a being a ball-winner/box to box. He is just a very well rounded player, especially since Wenger put him in a more defensive role to improve the defensive side of his game, just like iniesta in his early days. IMO he is as good a player as it gets to build your side around.

It was the first one I looked at in honesty but it backed up my point so I posted it. There is a similar shorter one vs Wales and he looks similar. I agree with the comparison with iniesta, I can definitely see that and I think I've said so before. However I stand by my point of not building my team around him, although perhaps he shouldn't be the last player you look getting the creative game out of

 

[rcoobc]

"If you had to compare him to two United current players, who would they be. Mine would be Park Ji Sung and Darren Fletcher"
You couldn't be more wrong about Wilshere, the Barca match is a bit special.Every single one of Arsenal players had to work hard and specially the central midfielders.To have a chance of beating even the most creative players have to assume extra defensive responsibilities.
Wilshere isn't specialized in ball winning even if he can do it like any real CM should

You didn't name your two. Can you not see the resemblance to park? Both are consistent 8/10 players, both are good on the counter, both pass and move although woks here is probably better at that in tight space

I didn't say either was a good comparison, just that they are the closest united have which was the question I gave.

 

[kouroux]

I don't have to name 2 players.Only Cleverley has a sort of similarity of play with Wilshere but they're still noticeably different players.
The only resemblance I see with Park is that they're both footballers

 

[rcoobc]

I don't have to name 2 players.Only Cleverley has a sort of similarity of play with Wilshere but they're still noticeably different players.
The only resemblance I see with Park is that they're both footballers

I'm amazed and disappointed then. They play different positions but even so their awareness, the way they hassle players to win the ball back, the way they bring the ball forward can be very similar. The pass and move is something park doesn't have, and park plays as the furthest player forward in the containing pack which I have never seen Wilshere play, but a lot of that is their different positions.

 

[kouroux]

Hassling players and winning the ball back is a far too general trait to compare players with.Besides it's not what stands out from Wilshere's performances when you see him play.

 

[peterstorey]

If you had to compare him to two United current players, who would they be. Mine would be Park Ji Sung and Darren Fletcher.

Is that meant to ring my bell? Paul Scholes is the man you need to be comparing him to. How do you think England would have done if they built a team around Scholes in say 2001.

 

[rcoobc]

Hassling players and winning the ball back is a far too general trait to compare players with.Besides it's not what stands out from Wilshere's performances when you see him play.

Worryingly I agree with you (partly). Maybe I was wrong to say you shouldn't build a team round him, it's just for me he could play alongside More creative players that don't exist (for England) and still be as good. I think jones-Cleverley-Wilshere could be a great midfield 3 for England, either with jones a holding midfielder or Cleverley a deep lying play maker, but all 3 playing close together. Young on the left, Rooney up top, someone on the right and that is a heck of a team.

That midfield 3 would not get turned over as easily by Barcelona as ours did.

 

[rcoobc]

Is that meant to ring my bell? Paul Scholes is the man you need to be comparing him to. How do you think England would have done if they built a team around Scholes in say 2001.

I've decided I was (partly) wrong to say you shouldn't build a team around him, especially if you meant it as "we should look to youth".

Park/Iniesta? Cleverley-Wilshere-Jones is the future I now believe in for England, if Fergie chooses to use Jones as a midfielder. I was impressed with him on Saturday.

 

[KM]

Wilshere isn't good enough yet that he could've a successful team built around him. He has the potential but he's not good enough as of now.

 

[peterstorey]

Wilshere isn't good enough yet that he could've a successful team built around him. He has the potential but he's not good enough as of now.

Depends. You can take the Wales/Speed approach and write of Euro 2012 and plan for world cup 2014.

 

[Brophs]

Wilshere's both a player for the present and the future, which is great for England. All that can stop him being one of the best players in his position in the world is injuries. Or perhaps Rafa getting the Arsenal job when Arsene rides off into the sunset.

 

[FranklyVulgar]

Wishere is quality. He has all the attributes. He could be spanish, he has that ability as a midfielder, he is quick and comfortable on the ball and understands ball retention. He's an outstanding prospect and already a very good player. England are lucky to have him.

 

[sammsky1]

Wilshere would be the obvious choice.

Wilshere? I wouldn't build my team around him, I'd slot him into my team as he makes other players better.

I'd put wilshire into the bag of players like smalling, jones, cleverly, welbeck, caroll, sturridge, walker, Oxlade-Chamberlain, McEachran etc. He is still way too young and inexperienced.

Deservedly or not, Walcott now has 2 world cup campaigns under his belt, plays consistently for his club, and has played enough times for England to be comfortable in the squad. yet he is still very young.

Brazil 2014 is just 2 1/2 years time ..... the younger players mentioned above will have to work to bring the best out of Englands slightly older but much more experienced players. Walcott is one of those players.

Maybe I've got blinkers on, but Im a huge Walcott fan. Wish we had him at United.

 

[sammsky1]

Wishere is quality. He has all the attributes. He could be spanish, he has that ability as a midfielder, he is quick and comfortable on the ball and understands ball retention. He's an outstanding prospect and already a very good player. England are lucky to have him.

No doubt, but he wont be Englands main man in 2014!

 

[sammsky1]

Depends. You can take the Wales/Speed approach and write of Euro 2012 and plan for world cup 2014.

Id love England to do that. I think the fans and press would allow for it too, if it was publicly stated. Given Rooney's absence, may as well anyway.

 

[TheHorse'sMouth]

Depends. You can take the Wales/Speed approach and write of Euro 2012 and plan for world cup 2014.

This really is what we should be doing. We aren't going to pull up trees in the Euros. It might be good experience for the the younger players to get regular games in the tournament and get them used to that kind of environment.

 

[sajeev]

Depends. You can take the Wales/Speed approach and write of Euro 2012 and plan for world cup 2014.

that is a pretty rational approach. But would that not unnecessarily expose the youngsters to the media and its criticism, instead of letting grow into the team naturally. A move like this might heap much more pressure than necessary in the long term.

 

[AttackingFlair]

Rooney should play behind either Sturridge/Welbeck (with the other playing wide) and Wilshere in midfield with another player against most teams.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I do think you rate Walcott too high, sammy. He has the potential to be a very good player and actually is a lot better than people would like to admit, and I can see him being very important for England when he realizes his potential but England have other players who not only have top notch ability but also a great football brain. Wayne Rooneys is obviously the best player England have but also he's got one of the best fooutball brains in the game imo. So firstly England need to get him firing on the international stage once again. One of the few players around who is unstoppable when in form.

Then you look at the engine room and while Rooney is brilliant at dropping deep and creating havoc, like united, England need midfielders who can keep the ball. And for this in Wilshere and Cleverley they have two great talents to base it on.

Apart from that you have wingers like Walcott and Young hitting teams with their pace and wide play but I wouldn't say they are going to be the heartbeat of the team. Their performances will depend very much on how the above key parts work.

But in the end, more than building s team around a player, for England, is say here is the opportunity to have, in 2 years time, a team of players that actually are capable of playing some good passing football. In that time you'd hopefully have rooney, welbeck, cleverley, welbeck and other technically sound English players coming through working in tandom to play quality football. I think this is the time to bed these players in because you want there to be a time when they have all matured and England best player, Rooney, still has his best to offer.

 

[humdinger]

This really is what we should be doing. We aren't going to pull up trees in the Euros. It might be good experience for the the younger players to get regular games in the tournament and get them used to that kind of environment.

I agree with the theory, but in fairness, you can't expect Capello do that. He will be gone after the tournament regardless, so he will want to do as best as he can right now with his best players, not give experience to youngsters to make things easier for his replacement. If they replaced Capello right now with someone who will be there for at least 4 years and told him that the focus is on the world cup 3 years down the line it could potentially happen.

 

[KM]

Depends. You can take the Wales/Speed approach and write of Euro 2012 and plan for world cup 2014.

I don't know if that's a right or a wrong step but for a country like where the pressure and expectations are sky high, I'm not sure they can write off a tournament like Euro 2012.

However I do agree, Wilshere and Rooney should be the two mainstay of the English team now. I still say that Carrick and Wilshere will be the best English pairing in a two man midfield.

 

[TheHorse'sMouth]

For rcoobc

 

[peterstorey]

I don't know if that's a right or a wrong step but for a country like where the pressure and expectations are sky high, I'm not sure they can write off a tournament like Euro 2012.

However I do agree, Wilshere and Rooney should be the two mainstay of the English team now. I still say that Carrick and Wilshere will be the best English pairing in a two man midfield.

That's probably right, particularly since Capello's only got about 8 months to go. Wales could do it because they were screwed anyway. It's a tempting idea to say:

Hart
Jones Smalling
Wilshere
Rooney

is the core of the 2014 team. Everthing is about finding the right formation/tactics for them to play and finding the other 6 to fit around them. So you start chucking out Ferdinand, Gerrard, Lampard, Terry, Barry, Parker as too old. Downing, Lescott, Jagielka, Johnson, Bent, Carroll as just not good enough.

 

[FranklyVulgar]

I do think you rate Walcott too high, sammy. He has the potential to be a very good player and actually is a lot better than people would like to admit, and I can see him being very important for England when he realizes his potential but England have other players who not only have top notch ability but also a great football brain. Wayne Rooneys is obviously the best player England have but also he's got one of the best fooutball brains in the game imo. So firstly England need to get him firing on the international stage once again. One of the few players around who is unstoppable when in form.

I can't see him ever being that good. Walcott should be used as an impact sub and never start a game in my opinion. Harsh yes but the thing is he is technically sound although i don't rate his passing or crossing as anything better than ok but he can finish and does have a decent touch. He pace is frightening. Get him on when the game is stretched and he can have a massive impact.

 

[peterstorey]

Theo's never going to be a great player but he can be very effective one, particularly since he often delivers in big games and that brutal pace is a singular weapon. People still forget he's only 22 because he's been around so long.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

For all the moaning from us Irish about the negativity of Trappatoni's team, it seems he's not the only Italian manager who's fond of keeping the goalkeeper involved.

 

[sajeev]

the only team from the british isles not to figure in that top 10 is Scotland.
am not sure what that means qualitatively though. are they more interesting to watch than the others?

 

[Member 39557]

That's probably right, particularly since Capello's only got about 8 months to go. Wales could do it because they were screwed anyway. It's a tempting idea to say:

Hart
Jones Smalling
Wilshere
Rooney

is the core of the 2014 team. Everthing is about finding the right formation/tactics for them to play and finding the other 6 to fit around them. So you start chucking out Ferdinand, Gerrard, Lampard, Terry, Barry, Parker as too old. Downing, Lescott, Jagielka, Johnson, Bent, Carroll as just not good enough.

I would have agreed with that until the Spain game, I thought Jagielka and Lescott played well. Adam Johnson is definitely good enough in my opinion, I'd start him over Walcott any day.

 

[Gio]

the only team from the british isles not to figure in that top 10 is Scotland.
am not sure what that means qualitatively though. are they more interesting to watch than the others?

Our midfield's quite handy and our centre-backs like to hoof it rather than pass it back to the keeper to hoof. Hutton likes to carry the ball forward whenever he gets the chance.

 

[africanspur]

who else is the next england team built around?

Just about anyone other than Walcott, a player who belongs in that little category of player England seem so good at producing (Lennon, Walcott, SWP, Downing, maybe Johnson). Head down speedsters, with little footballing intelligence who will occasionally have good runs of form but who will, more often than not, fail to impress.

The obvious choices now are Rooney and possibly Wilshire. But my own personal opinion is that the England team shouldn't be built around one or two different individuals in the first place. Only Rooney is devastating enough to build a team around at the moment and he's hardly exemplary for England so its a huge risk.

I'd rather just play 11 players, all in their correct positions, the players currently on the best form and see some effort and maybe even the slightest sign of a bit of pass and move if that's not asking for too much.