People losing their shit over English Heritage acknowledging that she was racist and sexist. Thoughts?
Enid Blyton
- Thread starter Inigo Montoya
- Start date
We should keep going and cancel absolutely everything. Worked out fine in 1984.
Just erase history altogether and start again.
Just erase history altogether and start again.
Hang her higher
Isn’t that what some want? Create division in just about everything then we get easier to rule
News flash (almost)everyone born a century ago was racist. The ancient Egyptians were racist as were the Romans, the kingdoms in China, India and Arabia. Churchill, Gandhi, Roosevelt all racist.
I think anyone alive in the last 100 years is fair game to be 'cancelled' (not a fan of that term in this context if I'm honest, I'd prefer we say 'reappraised').
Having said that, the fact that Churchill is still viewed as a hero even though by most accounts he was a repugnant man with repugnant views. You can differentiate between his actions in the war and his views that he carried throughout his life. He's definitely more 'cancelleable' than Enid Blyton.
What English Heritage are saying in this context is that they won't remove her plaques, but show on their website that her views are divisive and not aligned to their own, which is fair enough I think.
Having said that, the fact that Churchill is still viewed as a hero even though by most accounts he was a repugnant man with repugnant views. You can differentiate between his actions in the war and his views that he carried throughout his life. He's definitely more 'cancelleable' than Enid Blyton.
What English Heritage are saying in this context is that they won't remove her plaques, but show on their website that her views are divisive and not aligned to their own, which is fair enough I think.
As English Heritage pointed out, there were articles pointing out her racism in broadsheet English papers as far back as 1966 and in 1960 her publisher declined to publish a story of hers because of what it called "faint but unattractive touch of old-fashioned xenophobia".
This isn't new criticism and if it was obvious to people some 50+ years ago then it's hardly overly noteworthy that it should be pointed out now.
Rather than being an example of supposed "cancel culture", this highlights the increased tendency to portray any sort of fair criticism or reappraisal of an artist (something that has been a feature of every generation) as "cancel culture". For people who complain about snowflakes so much, these reactionaries are so over-sensitive.
God help them if they ever actually study English Literature, they might have to hear all sorts of negative things about writers they like.
This isn't new criticism and if it was obvious to people some 50+ years ago then it's hardly overly noteworthy that it should be pointed out now.
Rather than being an example of supposed "cancel culture", this highlights the increased tendency to portray any sort of fair criticism or reappraisal of an artist (something that has been a feature of every generation) as "cancel culture". For people who complain about snowflakes so much, these reactionaries are so over-sensitive.
God help them if they ever actually study English Literature, they might have to hear all sorts of negative things about writers they like.
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Re Churchill;It wasn’t just by all accounts, it’s on record. The guy was flawed in many ways.
But your point still stands
What was okay back in those days isn't okay now. Sad thing is that was the culture and her and ger friends probably had a laugh about certain things because it was the accepted norm then. Times are thankfully changing and only the genuinely good people are going to be safe from scrutiny.
All that aside, she's one of my favorite childhood authors and the reason I got a distinction in English Literature. I loved reading her books. It really doesn't get better than The Wishing Chair and Mrs. Washsalot.
All that aside, she's one of my favorite childhood authors and the reason I got a distinction in English Literature. I loved reading her books. It really doesn't get better than The Wishing Chair and Mrs. Washsalot.
I grew up reading Enid Blyton books, including the original Noddy series where the baddy was a Golly doll. It's funny, but I never equated the character with black people - it was a toy and didn't look like a real person.
Anyway, times have long changed and things like Noddy can be updated to reflect that. I'm not at all surprised that Blyton held views which are now very unacceptable, as she died back in the 1960s. She was a wealthy conservative white woman who lived in the Home Counties, who married an Army officer and later a doctor.
Evidently she also liked playing tennis in the nude, which would have made a better story than Noddy, probably.
Anyway, times have long changed and things like Noddy can be updated to reflect that. I'm not at all surprised that Blyton held views which are now very unacceptable, as she died back in the 1960s. She was a wealthy conservative white woman who lived in the Home Counties, who married an Army officer and later a doctor.
Evidently she also liked playing tennis in the nude, which would have made a better story than Noddy, probably.
Did not the names Golly, Woggy and Nigger give you a clue?
Probably not if they were a child when reading them. You're putting adult logic into a childs thoughts. There are numerous terms used to insult that children should not be aware of really.
Who is next on the list? Tolkien?
Here's a fun fact: the author of 1984 was a socialist who went to Spain to cancel fascists by shooting them, so I think he'd be fine with calling a racist spade a racist spade.
This was pretty overt, there are aspects of Tolkien's work that can appear a tad racist if you pick at it enough but you can do that with anything.
Hopefully.
I think that's already been done. Evil guys dark etc. Will probably resurface again.
why can’t we band together and cancel something that’s actually currently racist like Zionism? We will ignore that elephant in the room and over analyse kids books. A great use of brilliant minds.
Some of my clearest memories from childhood was playing the Noddy videogame.
The Israel/Palestine thread on this very forum has reached 162 pages, so I'm not sure who you're saying is ignoring it. The cause of Palestine, globally, is also probably now stronger than it has been in many years. Not the cause of Palestine in Palestine, of course, but that's harder to affect.
It is possible to worry about two different things, at different levels of the naughty scale.
Having read The Road to Wigan Pier it's hard to imagine that Orwell would be on board with this type of stuff. He seemed to think that the poison in the well of the British Socialist cause were the socialist activists themselves because they were unable to resonate with the working classes, rather more seeming like an alien species to them. He derides the 'feminists, sandal wearing vegetarians from Milton Keynes oddball and cranks' or words to that effect. It is a very amusing read, not only because Orwell has something of the misanthrope about him whilst pulling no punches but also because it's like nothing has changed in British leftwing politics in the 80 years since he wrote that book.
Five go and defeat Racism.
I also very much enjoyed reading her books as a kid and never consciously took anything racist from then though to be fair my understanding of racism was miniscule. I haven't gone back to read them as an adult but the main theme I took from her books was that children are smart and capable and a lot of adults are shady buggers.
Was this after or before he started spying for the British government ?
Still Homage To Catalonia is always worth read.
Same here.
This is exactly the sort of thing people clamour for when their favourite comedies are edited to remove outdated language. ‘Just add a disclaimer at the start, don’t mess with stuff that was of its time’ etc.
Well this is what they’ve done. No removal, no brushing stuff under the carpet. Just presenting the facts and letting people come to their own conclusions. I think this is the best way to handle this stuff.
Such a good read
It's probably several decades too late to cancel that. There's also a specific thread for that.
Not sure about that. If he did spy on whoever I can only imagine that he did so because he found them a threat to the greater good in some capacity. He obviously was a very committed socialist at least at one point, although from reading TRTWP I think his fear of facism is a bigger factor in his motivations. I'm going to read a biography on him so perhaps his spying career will be detailed in that.Was this after or before he started spying for the British government ?
Still Homage To Catalonia is always worth read.
I'm reading Homage to Catalonia at the moment but I prefer The Road to Wigan Pier and Down and Out in London and Paris so far. I've not read any of his fiction since 1984 at school but I really like his documentary stuff.
First chapter is one of the best things I've read.
The Magic Faraway Tree is brilliant , read it myself then to my kids and now my grandchildren . Good old Saucepan Man.
You're definitely characterizing his views in The Road to Wigan Pier correctly, but I'm not sure I agree that he would put this in the same category. If that's the case, then you could make that argument about basically anything, up until the point where George Orwell has become an avid viewer of GB News (since that is built nearly entirely on anti-PC, anti-SJW, culture war stuff).
Also, I'd keep in mind that when he wrote the book, the labour movement, through Labour, had had exactly two attempts at government, both relatively short-lived minority governments.
Edit: I forgot to say, George Orwell was also a vocal opponent of anti-semitism, which he called out wherever and whenever he saw it. I don't think it's a stretch to think that his views on modern racism would have been similar.
Of course it is only an opinion, there's no way of knowing one way or the other. Much the same as you claiming that he'd be strongly in favour of it. Personally I see the dynamic he is talking about as still being relevant in British politics today.
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I loved the fact that the children had adventures. It made me feel that I could also have adventures, something which was easier for kids to do in the 1960s in a way (it was normal for children to be out with their friends all day without parents getting worried).
The first part of The Road to Wigan Pier is a great piece of reportage on the poverty he saw, but from memory it descends into a ropey polemic in the second half where he's blaming poor people for their lot? Down and Out is excellent, wasn't so taken with stuff like Burmese Days, Coming Up for Air and Keep the Aspidistra Flying.
Blyton (esp F5 and S7) were a large part of my growing up and still influenced me into being a avid reader.
Holding past to current standards is a exercise is futility and will only get support in a closed echochamber. Just update her books as necessary and look forward rather than play the blame game here.
Holding past to current standards is a exercise is futility and will only get support in a closed echochamber. Just update her books as necessary and look forward rather than play the blame game here.
The first half is definitely the superior part.
I'll be honest, I just want to see nerds cry.
I thought everyone knew she was a racist bigot? Still a good children's book writer. Similarly with Dahl and his anti-Semitism.
Artists fictitious works always need to exist on their own realm.
Artists fictitious works always need to exist on their own realm.
From what I know about the list it was explicitly anti communist(''crypto-communists and fellow travelers''). It had around 135 names on it which Orwell had picked up over the years. He called Paul Robeson ''very anti white'', which is odd considering Robeson marched with Welsh workers and performed for soldiers during the Spanish civil war. Also because Robeson was a bit of a Stalinist but this wasn't mentioned by Orwell. And some of the people on the list had no affection towards Stalin whatsoever but were just left communist(Orwell would use reasons like Anti US, Anti English and would point out who was Jewish on the list).
It was a very strange era of Orwell life and many people have come up with reasons to why he did the list(For anti Stalinist reasons, he was very ill at the time, etc)still it's a really interesting piece of history.
Decent article here - https://libcom.org/library/orwells-list
The wiki has the full list of names - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orwell's_list
I've tried to get into 1984 a number of times but I'm not sure if it's been so ingrained into popular culture that I just find it a bit off putting. The ministry of truth or big brother most likely sounded cool in the 50's but in 2021 it reads like a Kojima game. But this isn't really the fault of the book as it happens to all art at some point. Also for me anyway Terry Gilliam Brazil really gets at what Orwell was trying to say in 1984.
Agree with you on his documentary stuff. Very enjoyable to read.
what?