i wonder if VDS is interested to step down from CEO of Ajax and becomes a sporting director for Man Utd. Doesn't sound that attractive to me. It seems to me he and Overmars really enjoy working there.
Erik ten Hag - Ajax Manager
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Van Gaals football is outdated and everyone knows that. He is part of the new era of intense, attacking and structured football. He's doing it in the CL which is a different beast to the EPL. Don't like the idea of lumping Poch with those guys but your point stands. What we're likely to do is a huge risk.
Van Gaals football is exactly what this Ajax team is playing now though. That does not make any sense if you have any historical sense of Dutch football. Its Ajax down to the core what they are doing now and exactly how Van Gaal tried to get United to play.
Ten Hag has not brought anything new to the classic Ajax model tactically.
That LvG was shit in the transfer-market and that the players he inherited were over the hill and not made for that type of football is another thing. But this idea that Van Gaals football is "outdated" is quite disrespectful to the man.
Nail on head.
The ship for Man Utd to play possession & positioning style football has sailed since LVG is fired. Ole is anything but.
Ajax is always much more than the manager. Their structure is also hugely responsible for current success. I'd like to see ten Hag do well elsewhere before concluding he's a great manager.
The logical step for him next is to go to Barcelona...just like the Ajax players.
OGS is not anything but; but much closer to Klopp in philosophy than Van Gaal/Guardiola. He played a very high pressing and direct game at Molde. Which most Norwegian clubs do tbf. With a fitter side and some new signings next year I see us moving more towards to that type of football.
Sorry but I can't agree with this post. Ajax is not playing like a Van Gaal's teams used to, during the Frank De Boer years - yes, but after his departure I don't think so. Peter Bosz especially brought back a lot of the original concepts of the total football which are basically to play agressive and fast, direct attacking football. The possession based model of Van Gaal's is very different than that. Ten Hag uses more the ideas of Cruyff's positional play in the way Ajax is building the attacks. And his preferred formation is 4231 which is an escape from the dogmatic 433 which Ajax played over the years..
Erik ten Hag was Pep Guardiola's assistant back in Bayern for the 2nd team. So my guess is his playing style probably quite similar to Pep's?
"According to Rory Smith of the New York Times, there are three pictures hanging on the wall of Ten Hag’s office. One is of Rinus Michels, the mastermind of Total Football at Ajax and the man who managed Cruyff as a player, one of Cruyff himself and one of Van Gaal."
"According to Rory Smith of the New York Times, there are three pictures hanging on the wall of Ten Hag’s office. One is of Rinus Michels, the mastermind of Total Football at Ajax and the man who managed Cruyff as a player, one of Cruyff himself and one of Van Gaal."
I dont disagree with the details of this necessarily, but the differences you are describing are marginal at best. I know that the Cruyff/Van Gaal schools are highly debated in Holland but to be fair the differences are very small if you compare them to the rest of Europe and the type of football that is played there.
Yes, I agree. I remember Ajax outplaying Barca a couple years ago in the same fashion.
Anything can happen in Cup competitions and a good run of form, I wouldn't judge on that alone. But definitely someone to keep an eye on in the future.
He's brought modern day off the ball intensity, something that Van Gaals didn't have hence he didn't succeed here. The single biggest difference between the way coaches of the past used to coach and these modern day blokes is off the ball.
So the shopping list now includes Van der Sar as CEO, Overmars of football director, Ten Hag as the manager (the entire chain of command), De Ligt, Van der Beek, maybe some other players and some promising youth players?
Maybe also the tea lady? Do you want fries with that?
Maybe also the tea lady? Do you want fries with that?
Sure
This is so incredibly wrong. Firstly equating Van Gaal and Ajax football is itself impossible when Van Gaal football differs quite heavily from Cruijff football in everything but formation. Secondly, Van Gaal in his later years is very different to Van Gaal in his earlier years. Thirdly, Ten Hag has definitely brought things to this system that aren't "Ajax" historically.
but please tell me, how is Ten Hag's use of a very attacking narrow 4 with very wide wing-backs similar to Van Gaal's wide outside wingers?
One similarity is the use of Tadic and the use of Kanu/Kluivert as highly technical, strong, centre forwards who act as the target of direct forward passes, and the use of Vd Beek vs the use of Litmanen as the player who runs into that space and operates around him.
Another similarity would be De Jong playing sort of hanging from the left back almost drifting forward/carrying the ball forward and inside the same way Seedorf did in 95. But Van Gaal's team played with a back 3, with De Boer and Reiziger both building up with their passing from around the halfway line. If you want to say that Blind plays like Rijkaard did, or that De Ligt plays like Danny Blind did, then you're again missing De Boer/Reiziger in the system, precisely because they played with them instead of our current wing backs.
but more importantly, Ajax in 95, from what I know /have seen about it defensively dropped back into a compact 4-2-3-1, with Rijkaard dropping back into cb and the centrebacks as fullbacks. Van Gaal has always had a far softer emphasis on pressing + forward-defending / "cover". Also, Van Gaal's system up front was exactly that, a system, whereas Ten Hag's team have a lot of freedom (he's been criticised for being too dependent on individual quality up front quite a few times this season actually)
Ten Hag's press is extremely tight, horizontally, as in we'll have 8 players within like 20-30 metres of the ball, even around the sidelines, leaving the other flank completely open. This isn't something I've seen at Ajax before.
Someone mentioned that Barca game from 2014 (fantastic game btw), but if you look at our (maniacal) pressing in that game, there was far less of that committing the team horizontally:
look at 01:15 for example, they're pressing on the wings but the rest of the team retains its structure.
Today's Ajax plays extremely narrowly. On the ball, the whole team shifts very narrowly to the side of the ball to act as pressing cover if the ball's lost, and similarly in the pressing itself.
this for example isn't quite a fair example, cause it was just following a throw-in, but look at how Ajax is set-up. In these two screenshots you can see the entire XI (minus goalie) on literally a quarter of the pitch's width:
Similarly, on the ball:
(you can just about see the knee of 10th player, De Ligt, at the kick-off spot)
A big thing of Ten Hag's game is the number of players ahead of the ball during build-up, as you can see here (ball is with nr 21, with technically 7 players ahead of him), and another thing is the narrowness and sort of horizontal shifting (see rightback, nr 3 moving inwards here)
which was actually a big thing we struggles with in that second half, because Spurs were consistently finding the massive space on other side, having us sprinting to get across, as in:
anyway, I've lost track of where I was going with this other than that Ten Hag's Ajax does a lot of things I haven't see before. Bosz' Ajax was a modern take on Cruijff, with more intense forward pressing, wide wingers until they got the ball and "inside" fullbacks (both a la guardiola). Ten Hag is maybe more Van Gaal, but is a lot more modern in almost every way than Van Gaal's take, that had watered down so massively by the time he got to United, but with a lot of things that aren't traditionally "Ajax" at all, even if the results themselves do capture the character of football that we always strive for.
This was a great post and I am always impressed how knowledgable Dutch fans are on tactics. But as I think I stated earlier you are talking details, its still Ajax-football as you summarize in your last sentence. I am not going to address this post in detail, it was very good. But you could for example argue that the reason that Ajax wingers plays more narrow now is that Tadic is not strong enough to play as a more traditional No9.This is so incredibly wrong. Firstly equating Van Gaal and Ajax football is itself impossible when Van Gaal football differs quite heavily from Cruijff football in everything but formation. Secondly, Van Gaal in his later years is very different to Van Gaal in his earlier years. Thirdly, Ten Hag has definitely brought things to this system that aren't "Ajax" historically.
but please tell me, how is Ten Hag's use of a very attacking narrow 4 with very wide wing-backs similar to Van Gaal's wide outside wingers?
One similarity is the use of Tadic and the use of Kanu/Kluivert as highly technical, strong, centre forwards who act as the target of direct forward passes, and the use of Vd Beek vs the use of Litmanen as the player who runs into that space and operates around him.
Another similarity would be De Jong playing sort of hanging from the left back almost drifting forward/carrying the ball forward and inside the same way Seedorf did in 95. But Van Gaal's team played with a back 3, with De Boer and Reiziger both building up with their passing from around the halfway line. If you want to say that Blind plays like Rijkaard did, or that De Ligt plays like Danny Blind did, then you're again missing De Boer/Reiziger in the system, precisely because they played with them instead of our current wing backs.
but more importantly, Ajax in 95, from what I know /have seen about it defensively dropped back into a compact 4-2-3-1, with Rijkaard dropping back into cb and the centrebacks as fullbacks. Van Gaal has always had a far softer emphasis on pressing + forward-defending / "cover". Also, Van Gaal's system up front was exactly that, a system, whereas Ten Hag's team have a lot of freedom (he's been criticised for being too dependent on individual quality up front quite a few times this season actually)
Ten Hag's press is extremely tight, horizontally, as in we'll have 8 players within like 20-30 metres of the ball, even around the sidelines, leaving the other flank completely open. This isn't something I've seen at Ajax before.
Someone mentioned that Barca game from 2014 (fantastic game btw), but if you look at our (maniacal) pressing in that game, there was far less of that committing the team horizontally:
look at 01:15 for example, they're pressing on the wings but the rest of the team retains its structure.
Today's Ajax plays extremely narrowly. On the ball, the whole team shifts very narrowly to the side of the ball to act as pressing cover if the ball's lost, and similarly in the pressing itself.
this for example isn't quite a fair example, cause it was just following a throw-in, but look at how Ajax is set-up. In these two screenshots you can see the entire XI (minus goalie) on literally a quarter of the pitch's width:
Similarly, on the ball:
(you can just about see the knee of 10th player, De Ligt, at the kick-off spot)
A big thing of Ten Hag's game is the number of players ahead of the ball during build-up, as you can see here (ball is with nr 21, with technically 7 players ahead of him), and another thing is the narrowness and sort of horizontal shifting (see rightback, nr 3 moving inwards here)
which was actually a big thing we struggles with in that second half, because Spurs were consistently finding the massive space on other side, having us sprinting to get across, as in:
anyway, I've lost track of where I was going with this other than that Ten Hag's Ajax does a lot of things I haven't see before. Bosz' Ajax was a modern take on Cruijff, with more intense forward pressing, wide wingers until they got the ball and "inside" fullbacks (both a la guardiola). Ten Hag is maybe more Van Gaal, but is a lot more modern in almost every way than Van Gaal's take, that had watered down so massively by the time he got to United, but with a lot of things that aren't traditionally "Ajax" at all, even if the results themselves do capture the character of football that we always strive for.
I would also argue that the reason that De Jong is not deployed as a "classic" No6 is that he is not physically ready for that yet and needs more of an enforcer as Schöne beside him. He is no Busquets or Fernandinho, It would have been a real risk to have him playing just in front of the CBs against a physical team like Spurs by himself, especially when one of the CBs is Daley Blind. So I would argue that the tweaks that Ten Hag has made to the system you play now might very much be because of the players he has at his disposal.. Which is a big credit to him in itself.
Not if you’re going to drown them with mayonnaise.
Tadic is incredibly strong. Like ridiculously so. I'd argue he's definitely stronger than either Kanu or young Kluivert in fact.
edit: in fact, him playing as a false 9 is partly a result of the narrowness of our attack in the first place, as Dolberg struggles massively to get involved now that there's 2/3 fellow players + their defenders operating in his space, compared to under Bosz, when he thrived, where the wide wingers kept the centre relatively more open for Dolberg to move around in and receive the ball. Tadic' physical strength and quality in tiny spaces made him more suited for that position now
Schöne an enforcer? Schöne is the biggest defensive weakness in this side. He gets passed by by the ball and players, has opposition midfielders run out of his back constantly, and simply can't keep up. he also shuts down when pressed aggressively and is imo the first player I'd target with my pressing as an opposing manager.
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I think he played more as an attacking midfielder occasional winger until Bosz converted him to a deep lying playmaker
Maybe not, the theory is still valid. We need to start building towards something and appoint someone with a specific vision. If not VDS then someone else.
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As if our board would let him be successful here. It’s beyond just him as a manager.
He probably wouldn't want to take on such an ill-suited project, and I wouldn't blame him. With his approach he'll only find himself frustrated by a club such as ours without a foundation for the type of football he wants to employ.
Relax pet, none of this will happen as everyone knows so why bother wasting your time getting your knickers wet.
Said in a Dutch interview in Parool today that he has no intention to leave Ajax. Looks like besides the departure of De Jong and probably De Ligt, Ajax might be able to keep the rest of the team together. But ofcourse even those two will be hard to replace for them.
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There are also the first(?) rumors of a Bayern interest in him. It is an obvious connection (Kovac under criticism and him having worked there before) and probably lazy journalism though
I did like Ten Hag’s response there to Pochettino.
Obviously Tottenham’s vast riches from Premier League TV and prize money don’t make their players more rested. But Ten Hag said that clubs should adapt to their circumstances, in Ajax’s case adapting to having a significantly smaller budget that Tottenham.
Anyway Tuesday’s match was both clubs’ 8th in April, and Tottenham’s vastly larger resources should allow them to handle a busy schedule.
Tottenham paid more signing Sanchez, Erikssen and Vertonghen directly from Ajax, than Ajax paid for their entire matchday squad on Tuesday. Also Ajax’s wage bill is comfortably less than a third of Tottenham’s, and lower than that of every Premier League club apart from Cardiff and Huddersfield. An amazing success story.
Brilliant responding.
The Bayern rumours have been going on for months, but they do seem more persistent recently. Ajax are not interested in letting him go and he seems happy to stay. Only has 1 year left, so maybe he'll just leave after next season instead, or extend.
Look behind you, a Three-Headed Monkey!!!
Bring him in, seen enough from Ole and the players im pretty confident we are not going to improve next season, even if we have the best summer in the club's history.
Ole is not up to the races to bring us into contention to challenge for the league.
Ole is not up to the races to bring us into contention to challenge for the league.
firstly, Ten Hag would be ran out of Manchester within a month. He's had difficulty making it at Ajax with his background and lack of charisma, despite his positive reputation in Dutch football. No way the superstars of Manchester United or the British tabloid press would even begin to give him a shot. He'll (eventually) go to Germany and succeed. He'd crash and burn in the premier league.
Not that I'm going to stick my neck out for Ole being a success, but similar things were being said about Ten Hag at Ajax at the end of last season (he joined us November/December, very similarly to Ole)
And the end of his first season ended with him, Overmars, Van Der Sar and the team getting confronted by fans at the team bus.
The caf body language experts would tear him to shreds week in week out.
Ferguson would have used a guy like that as a field trainer like Queiroz and Meulensteen. But no way Ten Hag will make a step back like that. It will be interesting to see what happens if Ten Hag ever makes the step to a big club in a top league, a man with no charisma like that. In his merit he has proved at Ajax it can work if you just don't care.
He will fit well in the Bundesliga.
Replace Germany with Bayern and i agree. They are already circling around him going by reports