Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager / awaiting clarity from the club over his position

[stevoc]

Nah, we've been really unlucky with injuries, vibes and the placement of the planets.

Also, talking like this gets you the 'doesnt know anything about football' conviction in the court of EtH.

I'm ok with that, Moyes said something similar in his last days. Lashing out is probably a sign he reckons he's getting the boot.

 

[Alpha 1]

We adapted today.

Better recruitment alone would be a huge driver of future success. Imagine singing some physically and technically gifted players for CB, CDM, LB and ST for example. How lovely would it be to be able to say “Rasmus, you’re 20 and came to us injured, take your time, learn the system, the league and get stronger while our experienced ST supports.

Or Kobbie, we think you’re great but you’re 18/19 and we don’t want you to be fecked due to overplaying. So we’re happy to rest you while this competent and similar profiled players takes some of your minutes without a huge drop off.

Or Shaw, we know you can’t play 100% of the mins in the PL so here’s an understudy we think is good enough to still provide those overloads but is also happy to tuck inside from time to time.

Look at how many players City turned over to get to where they are today. Was that all Pep’s doing?

City won the league in Guardiola's second season. You're typically spouting nonsense and lies for Ten Hag.

We also could be 8 pts better off. If we didn’t concede late goals to Chelsea, late goal to Burnley, late goal to Liverpool, late goal to Fulham. Not to mention a few of them being penalties.

Seen the expected points table? I dare you to look it up.

Sacking the manager is a good thing if the manager you then appoint aligns better with the vision you have. Then of course you make that structural change. There’s also a logic in appointing a manager the bigger picture people want in charge too, but the truth is they could want a manager like Ten Hag. He could be their choice so to speak. I’m not going to comment on the likelihood of this.

Unfortunately some of the truly influential people won’t officially be in the job to make this call. And also unfortunately we’ve had the kind of season that like it or not it’s really hard to honestly and fairly assess what Ten Hag is doing. So patience might be the best of a bad bunch of options in terms of allowing time for the first managerial choice to be made.

As for reasons in favour of Ten Hag we could point to a good first season, lots of finals, promotion and development of youth, dealing with culture issues and standards etc but none of us know if that’s enough or what would impress INEOS.

Absolutely none of us know whether Ten Hag does or does not meet that criteria.

None of us know who does.

There are arguments to be made for all coaches including Tuchel but then there are also arguments against too again, none of us are privy to the key factors that would influence decision.

I do really strongly believe whatever is decided we just have to get behind, so Tuchel, Southgate or sticking with Ten Hag you have to back the decision and judge it over time.

But for now I’m not going to get flustered or bothered by it. We have 2 weeks left and we’ll find out soon enough.

Too much dross. I watched Villa play vs Liverpool today. They don't have world beaters but the players actually know what they have to do; there is a level of organisation in the team, a structure whereas we, regardless of the 11 players on the pitch, are chaotic. In short Ten Hag is fecking shite manager who just spouts excuse after excuse for the garbage his team keeps putting out. This has been true since preseason when we had all our players fit. I fecking hate these shit excuses. He isn't good enough. Period. Feck everything else.

 

[vivaronaldo]

bloke is in over his head , and these results would not be tolerated anywhere else 2 years and 4 windows into your reign .....managing united should not be an apprenticeship

 

[croadyman]

bloke is in over his head , and these results would not be tolerated anywhere else 2 years and 4 windows into your reign .....managing united should not be an apprenticeship

Too true

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I think they are an outstanding side but doing it in the Bundesliga and the PL are two different levels.

Not this again....

I swear some of you think the PL is like superheroes football compared to other leagues

 

[Waynne]

Why don’t you just use your words right away?

Unfortunately you only need to look back one season for that not to be the case in Europe.

It’s not a case of looking down it’s just objectively more difficult to compete in a league with the most money and higher average quality of opponent.

Id take Alonso over Ten Hag in a heartbeat.

One of the things I hate most about this place. You offer an opinion and get a laugh emoji or some other shite as a reply instead of the user explaining why they are disagreeing. It's infuriating.

 

[Yagami]

Nah, we will just find new excuses if we can’t use the same ones we’ve used this year. To be fair we will probably be able to just recycle them as we will have some injuries next season as well.

It's the Glazers fault that ten Hag has been leaving old man Casemiro or a teenager alone in midfield all season.

 

[In Rainbows]

Nah, we will just find new excuses if we can’t use the same ones we’ve used this year. To be fair we will probably be able to just recycle them as we will have some injuries next season as well.

They'll still reuse one of the excuses.

"Well the structure has only just been here so how could they have positively impacted Ten Hag? If you truly want to see him under the new structure, he needs another season"

 

[Rightnr]

Not this again....

I swear some of you think the PL is like superheroes football compared to other leagues

It's the fallacy that spending loads gives you quality. Our own club has proven that to be completely untrue.

 

[Blood Mage]

bloke is in over his head , and these results would not be tolerated anywhere else 2 years and 4 windows into your reign .....managing united should not be an apprenticeship

It's not like he's a young manager learning his trade either, the man is older than Pep and Emery.

 

[frostbite]

Sacking the manager is a good thing if the manager you then appoint aligns better with the vision you have.

Nope. If a manager is not good at his job, you sack him. He has failed. End of the story.


What happens next, the interviews, the next manager, the structure, the squad, the future, whatever, is a different story, it's a separate issue, or multiple separate issues.

 

[NLunited]

It could easily be Alonso failing here, we have problems upon problems within problems.

We have a lot of work to do; patience is needed regardless of the manager situation. Ten Hag is probably gone and I fully expect most in this thread to soon turn against the next manager when things aren‘t going his way.

 

[NewGlory]

Mikel Arteta on Ten Hag:
“I admire his teams both Ajax & Man Utd, I know what he is trying to do, I know how he does it, I know how difficult it is to prepare against him. I have huge respect for him & hopefully he gets time.”

 

[pocco]

Nice try, Mikel. We know what you're upto, learning from your idol Pep.

 

[NLunited]

Nice try, Mikel. We know what you're upto, learning from your idol Pep.

Pathetic, you can‘t argue against this so you go for a cheap shot.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Mikel Arteta on Ten Hag:
“I admire his teams both Ajax & Man Utd, I know what he is trying to do, I know how he does it, I know how difficult it is to prepare against him. I have huge respect for him & hopefully he gets time.”

Everton didn't seem to have a problem

 

[pocco]

Pathetic, you can‘t argue against this so you go for a cheap shot.

Argue against it?

It's a rival manager being respectful to a fellow coach. Pep said some crazy things about Ole. It means nothing.

 

[Atheist]

Hypothetical for Ten Hag in folks - if we have a similar number of injuries starting next season and our results are affected badly as a result - do you still think he should be given a chance until there are few/no injuries or should he be sacked then? If yes, why would you change your mind then as compared to now?

 

[DSG]

You've pretty much mentioned the reasons I'd give him another season in your own post.

Not because of what he achieved at Ajax. In my view that's what got him the job, it should never be what keeps him in the job. How he does here decides that.

Yes because of what we achieved in his first season. Also yes because I'm curious to see how well he'd fare within a better organisation.

Finally from a selfish point of view, because I don't want to see United play the possession obsessed robotic stuff that many seem to crave. I want us to be direct and exciting and I believe that Ten Hag wants us to be that team so I'd like to see whether he can deliver that.

If we do part ways then I'd hope we look for someone in a similar vein.

I think my unwillingness to give Ten Hag another year boils down the fact that the things he could control, the training, the tactics, the performances were woefully inadequate.

Did we spend money on the squad? Yes, to the tune of 400m.

Did we purchase targets that he wanted? Yes, he had veto power, so he agreed to every tranfer. Furthermore, several players previously played for him.

The areas where structure matters is the following:
1. Facilities
2. Scouting & transfers
3. Player contracts & negotiations
4. Medical and medical facilities and science
5. Non-football related revenue
6. Academy and youth teams

‘Most, if not all of these will affect us 2, 3, 4 seasons down the road. The greatest leverage to improve day-to-day results is the manager: tactics, in game substitutions, pre match preparation. Key player form also has a big effect on results, but those are somewhat related to tactics.

‘I just don’t see the tactics changing and I don’t think they will work. They haven’t so far…

 

[frostbite]

The areas where structure matters is the following:

The main area where "the structure" matters is to sack the manager early and not dither for months. The delays cause multiple problems (I blame ETH for the injuries, too!).

 

[Robbie Boy]

Really hope he turns it around somehow if we're stuck with him as seems increasingly likely.

If he stays, he'll be gone by Christmas.

 

[cletus7]

It feels to me that he’s overdoing it with the excuses. Anybody would think he has twice the injuries he does have. Creating a climate of underachievement in order to protect his own job. If he can’t take responsibility, then why should the players? Imagine if an underperforming player came out after a game and started bleeting on about how they’re just back from injury with a saw toe etc. I don’t understand why he can’t coach out the leaky midfield? Why Amrabat has had so few minutes? Why it took so long to move AWB back to right back? Even the injuries probably trace back to the extra running he had the team do… extra running to no effect! He needs to make sure that the team put up a fight against Newcastle and he puts the lid on excuses.

 

[NLunited]

Argue against it?

It's a rival manager being respectful to a fellow coach. Pep said some crazy things about Ole. It means nothing.

It means what it means. We give Arsenal a hard time. Even with a decimated squad.

 

[Insanity]

"Gave Arsenal a hard time"

We didn't lay on a punch on an Arsenal team which was nervy and didn't need to get out of second gear. That is apparently an achievement now.

We have finally reached the promised land with ETH. We still get beaten but make it hard for the opposition. Good times!

 

[MadDogg]

It means what it means. We give Arsenal a hard time. Even with a decimated squad.

We played much better against Arsenal than we normally do, which actually makes ETH look worse. We obviously played quite differently than the way he's set us up the rest of this season, with the team being much more compact and Mainoo actually playing as an #8 instead of a #10. It meant that Arsenal couldn't just play straight past our high press then have a completely free run straight at our defence with one midfielder trying to cover a huge amount of space in the middle all by himself. So all the issues that we've had this season, the things that people have been pointing out since preseason as being ridiculous, weren't an issue today because we weren't doing them.

The defence of ETH all season has been that the injuries and unsuitable players are the big issue, not the tactical set-up that he uses. Well, we just faced arguably the best team in the league while we had more injuries than we have had in any other match this season, and suddenly performed better than we've had many times with our full strength (or near full strength) line-up. So it's a very very strong signal that the tactics he's used all season have been the biggest problem after all.

 

[Iowa Red]

It means what it means. We give Arsenal a hard time. Even with a decimated squad.

We did not give Arsenal a hard time. We had 2 shots on goal and both shots were tame shots.

We did play better than normal which can be attributed to a change in tactics. Which begs the question.....why did ETH wait so long to change the tactics? My answer is that ETH is a flawed manager, refusing to deviate from his wide-open midfield, chaos ball even when he clearly did not have the players who could execute it.

 

[croadyman]

If he stays, he'll be gone by Christmas.

Could be less options by then,also think it would be harder to get a Tuchel in mid season too

 

[Robbie Boy]

Could be less options by then,also think it would be harder to get a Tuchel in mid season too

He should 100% be sacked ASAP. But, if he isn't, then he won't last long into next season. In no world can I see him turning this around.

 

[croadyman]

He should 100% be sacked ASAP. But, if he isn't, then he won't last long into next season. In no world can I see him turning this around.

Shame, I was backing him to the hilt right until we suffered that unforgivable battering at Anfield

 

[Toblerone92]

Our worst points total and league finish since SAF and people are genuinely believe he has any right to stay. Baffling.

 

[Paul778]

It's a non issue. There is no way anyone gives him a contract extension this summer - given how bad he has been in all aspects of his role.

There is no way we go into a new season with him only having one year left. He would have all the same black marks against him as now but he would clearly be a supply teacher again - like Rangnick with everyone knowing he he could just be ignored.

Players don't just move for the money - they move for the project and the opportunity. Who would come here under ETH given the football he has put out since last March. To have a hope of getting quality and not paying silly mercenary money we need a manager to inspire.

He will be gone in the summer. Don't worry about that.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

City won the league in Guardiola's second season. You're typically spouting nonsense and lies for Ten Hag.

Seen the expected points table? I dare you to look it up.

Too much dross. I watched Villa play vs Liverpool today. They don't have world beaters but the players actually know what they have to do; there is a level of organisation in the team, a structure whereas we, regardless of the 11 players on the pitch, are chaotic. In short Ten Hag is fecking shite manager who just spouts excuse after excuse for the garbage his team keeps putting out. This has been true since preseason when we had all our players fit. I fecking hate these shit excuses. He isn't good enough. Period. Feck everything else.

Saying City won the league in Guariola’s second season is hilarious because before he arrived the footballing structure was being put in place for him. See Txiki Begiristain.

They had the following place finishes in the preceding 6 seasons (well establishing them as an already very good side):
4th
2nd
1st
2nd
1st
3rd

He inherited a side that contained to name a few:

• Aguero
• De Brunye
• Sterling
• Silva
• Otamendi
• Kompany
• Fernandinho
• Nasri
• Toure
• Navas
• Fernando
• Zabaleta
• Kolarov
• Hart
• Boly
• Mangala

But also because by the end of the second season they had signed the following:

1. Nolito
2. Gundogan
3. Zinchenko
4. Sane
5. Stones
6. Bravo
7. Jesus
8. Silva
9. Ederson
10. Walker
11. Luiz
12. Danilo
13. Mendy
14. Laporte

The two aren’t remotely comparable based on the quality of turnover of players and none of the above are loans or emergency 35 year old free agents.

Not this again....

I swear some of you think the PL is like superheroes football compared to other leagues

Who are these some of you? I do believe the PL is a stronger league. I believe it is more physically demanding due to the number of high intensity runs in an average game which makes a transition game a lot more demanding here than any other league:

The PL is ranked 1st in all of the following categories:

• Avg High Intensity Activities
• Avg Peak Sprint Velocity
• Avg Sprint Distance
• Avg Number of Sprints
• Avg High Intensity Distsance

One of the things I hate most about this place. You offer an opinion and get a laugh emoji or some other shite as a reply instead of the user explaining why they are disagreeing. It's infuriating.

And it will be the same posters that keep calling you names while saying your opinion is rubbish.

Nope. If a manager is not good at his job, you sack him. He has failed. End of the story.


What happens next, the interviews, the next manager, the structure, the squad, the future, whatever, is a different story, it's a separate issue, or multiple separate issues.

You’ve selected one part of a wider context of quote.

If you’re unsure of the level of a manager due to a freak of a season failure isn’t as black and white as we might believe hence my context of my post being about none of us know exactly what INEOS are judging him against and how they view it.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

In fact @Alpha 1 this is player sales in the first 2 seasons too:
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/pep-guardiola/spielerverkaeufe/trainer/5672/plus/0?station_id=128184

Filter by year.

 

[stefan92]

Nice try, Mikel. We know what you're upto, learning from your idol Pep.

I fully believe him. Has to be difficult to prepare your team while you are laughing your a** off about how bad the other team is set up.

 

[msjmohd83]

Saying City won the league in Guariola’s second season is hilarious because before he arrived the footballing structure was being put in place for him. See Txiki Begiristain.

They had the following place finishes in the preceding 6 seasons (well establishing them as an already very good side):
4th
2nd
1st
2nd
1st
3rd

He inherited a side that contained to name a few:

• Aguero
• De Brunye
• Sterling
• Silva
• Otamendi
• Kompany
• Fernandinho
• Nasri
• Toure
• Navas
• Fernando
• Zabaleta
• Kolarov
• Hart
• Boly
• Mangala

But also because by the end of the second season they had signed the following:

1. Nolito
2. Gundogan
3. Zinchenko
4. Sane
5. Stones
6. Bravo
7. Jesus
8. Silva
9. Ederson
10. Walker
11. Luiz
12. Danilo
13. Mendy
14. Laporte

The two aren’t remotely comparable based on the quality of turnover of players and none of the above are loans or emergency 35 year old free agents.

Who are these some of you? I do believe the PL is a stronger league. I believe it is more physically demanding due to the number of high intensity runs in an average game which makes a transition game a lot more demanding here than any other league:

The PL is ranked 1st in all of the following categories:

• Avg High Intensity Activities
• Avg Peak Sprint Velocity
• Avg Sprint Distance
• Avg Number of Sprints
• Avg High Intensity Distsance

And it will be the same posters that keep calling you names while saying your opinion is rubbish.

You’ve selected one part of a wider context of quote.

If you’re unsure of the level of a manager due to a freak of a season failure isn’t as black and white as we might believe hence my context of my post being about none of us know exactly what INEOS are judging him against and how they view it.

crazy by the end of the second season they already have like 2 solid teams that can challenge top 4. That's what money and top management/recruitment can do...

 

[LawCharltonBest]

de Zerbi —> Bayern - McKenna —> Brighton and …. Rooney —> Ipswich is what I’m hearing.

Ignore what unreliable Twitter virgins say, no major club will touch De Zerbi in the real world

 

[stevoc]

We played much better against Arsenal than we normally do, which actually makes ETH look worse. We obviously played quite differently than the way he's set us up the rest of this season, with the team being much more compact and Mainoo actually playing as an #8 instead of a #10. It meant that Arsenal couldn't just play straight past our high press then have a completely free run straight at our defence with one midfielder trying to cover a huge amount of space in the middle all by himself. So all the issues that we've had this season, the things that people have been pointing out since preseason as being ridiculous, weren't an issue today because we weren't doing them.

The defence of ETH all season has been that the injuries and unsuitable players are the big issue, not the tactical set-up that he uses. Well, we just faced arguably the best team in the league while we had more injuries than we have had in any other match this season, and suddenly performed better than we've had many times with our full strength (or near full strength) line-up. So it's a very very strong signal that the tactics he's used all season have been the biggest problem after all.

The question we have to ask ourselves though is this why he's been so reluctant to change his setup? Out of fear that improved performances/results would highlight the inherent problems with his system?

It's probably not a coincidence it happened right after a battering, he probably suspected another pasting at the hands of Arsenal after the Palace defeat might accelerate a decision on his future.

 

[roonster09]

Among the 5 managers we had (excluding interim) EtH is among the worst in every stat.

Goals per game - 4th, just above LVG.
Conceded - by far the worst
Win % - 2nd, only behind Jose
Loss % - 2nd, only Moyes lost more. Other 3 managers are not even close.
Points per game - 4th, only Moyes is behind.

Then other stats like Possession, shots, shots conceded he should be among the worst.

 

[Leftback99]

It's a non issue. There is no way anyone gives him a contract extension this summer - given how bad he has been in all aspects of his role.

There is no way we go into a new season with him only having one year left. He would have all the same black marks against him as now but he would clearly be a supply teacher again - like Rangnick with everyone knowing he he could just be ignored.

Players don't just move for the money - they move for the project and the opportunity. Who would come here under ETH given the football he has put out since last March. To have a hope of getting quality and not paying silly mercenary money we need a manager to inspire.

He will be gone in the summer. Don't worry about that.

There is an option for a further year.

 

[Sarni]

The two aren’t remotely comparable based on the quality of turnover of players and none of the above are loans or emergency 35 year old free agents.

I love how you cling to the ‘he had to loan players and get free agents’ argument as if ETH got literally zero support in the market and had to dig into bargain bin all the time.

We bought him over £400m worth of players he largely picked himself (just like he wanted), with over half of the amount spent on players he had managed before.

But because he was forced to make two emergency loans (Weghorst and Reguilon) he’s apparently had to make do with bargain signings only.

Also, Pep v ETH debates are utterly pointless. There are maybe 5 people on this forum who believe they are the same level of a manager, or in any way comparable.