No, and no he doesn't 3 clubs on contention can't reach that high level of points total, one has to drop off or the overall total has to be lower as they take points off each other also.
Erik Ten Hag may need at least 96 points to break the Pep/ Klopp duopoly, is that realistic?
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It's no more realistic than looking at the likes of Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea and Newcastle and thinking they can do similar.
Liverpool will not sustain this level; we've seen last year without VVD and we will see it again with Salah and Mane going/ getting older.
The level is almost unrealistic now
so cute people banking on Spurs and Arsenal of all teams. Chelsea are a shit show with their owner in limbo and players may even exodus. Can they even buy players if he calls his debts? One dude even mentioned Everton + Newcastle (relegation candidates)
lets face it. Erik would do well to even be in contention. When Spurs were Champions League finalists and a Hazard lead Chelsea + Arsenal were Europa finalists they still got 97 and 96 points. Y'all are demented I swear to god.
Not realistic next season. It will take a few years at the very least.
The landscape of football will be very different by then
The landscape of football will be very different by then
its been 5 years. When will they start?
Let's just focus on improvement and excellent over the next 2 years.
I feel like the PL is quite weak right now, if we get some more steady improvement in the rest of the league the points total will drop back to the high 80’s I think. If Spurs back Conte, Ten Hag is half decent and Chelsea don’t disappear I think it’ll be a much less crazy points total.
Sorry, but that is completely misleading. The 'swing' back to United against Chelsea did not come about as a result of United's improvement, but primarily due to Chelsea's decline. In 2004/05 Chelsea achieved 95 points compared to 83 points for United (a deficit of 12 points). Between 2004/05 and 2006/07 when United won back the title, the Chelsea points total had collapsed by 12 points compared to the 2004/05 baseline, whilst United's had improved by six points. That season United achieved 89 points to win the title back compared to 83 points for Chelsea. Far from 'catching up' United's success in 2006/07 was attributable primarily to Chelsea's decline. To say that United caught up with Chelsea would be a bit like saying (as some of our fans stated last season) that United had 'caught up' with Liverpool, completely ignoring the fact that Liverpool's points haul collapsed last season by 30 points compared to their PL winning season.
That said, I totally agree that there is every chance that clubs will improve, but notwithstanding as long as Pep and Klopp remain in charge at their respective clubs, we are looking at 90 plus point seasons as the norm for winning the PL title. 'Catching' up with them will, in my view, require improvement in absolute, not relative terms.
That's one way to look at it. A very negative one ("we only won back the title because they had gone to shit"), but still. It's extremely simplistic to just look at points totals.
We overtook them. That was my point.
And it's highly doubtful Liverpool and City will maintain this level for much longer. Nobody stays at the top forever.
Anyway, I'd at least consider the possibility that the reason why Liverpool and City are so "dominant" (City have been to a grand total of 1 CL final, which they lost) right now is because the rest of the PL/Europe is quite shit.
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You are ignoring the context of United title wins , Sir Alex mostly did what was required rather than going for point totals fanatically even the 2006-07 you seem to referencing was already decided couple of rounds earlier ,United could have easily breached 90's mark if it was necessary it wasn't Chelsea underperformance rather United's excellence which decided the title .
Well that is what happened. We overtook them primarily because they declined not because we improved. That does not mean that we should not celebrate the success, nor does it take away from the achievement, but it does contextualise it. The improvement that we made up to 2006/07 and even 2008/09 when we achieved 90 points would not have been enough to match Chelsea's baseline of 95 points 2004/05 or for that matter its adjusted baseline of 91 points in 2005/06.
The statistics are clear. We did not 'catch up' as much as they declined. Had we 'caught up' we would have been achieving points totals in comparison to theirs. There is a fundamental difference between absolute and relative improvement and my point is that if we are to compete effectively in what seems to be the new norm, we need to improve absolutely and not simply make incremental improvement and hope for City or Liverpool to experience a decline.
I agree that no one stays on top forever. I am not a believer in cycles as it just seems like superstitious nonsense. But I do believe that changes to the way the game is played, modernisation, sackings, appointments, excellent player recruitment, injuries and of course money all have a significant impact. Over the next few years, we will have to see the extent to which these factors play in our favour or theirs.
If we're much closer than we are now and play some good football, it would be a start. I think over time there will be a chance but not right now
Sir Alex was a winner. There’s absolutely no way he said “do what’s required lads”, he would have wanted to win every time you played.
Also in context to United title wins, shall we mention his last title?United were the only team to go above 80 points, every other team grossly under performed. You got 89 points but in terms of performance, you were not as strong as previous Utd teams.
Hopefully we get better and are able to take some points off of them. Also with getting better it could mean more pressure on their games from another team and more dropped points (optimistic, I know).
I think ultimately we just focus on our performances next season and see where we go from there.
I think ultimately we just focus on our performances next season and see where we go from there.
Yes if they can do it than it's not impossible.
Sorry you do realise Once title is won sometimes teams can be bit relaxed and take foot of the gas it can happen poster is clearly talking bs about 2006-7 season ignoring all the context like that title was already decided even before the penultimate round .
United could have breached 90 points mark that season if they really pushed for it .
No. He’s going to have to wait until they leave.
That is not going to happen every season. Next season you might just need just 80 points to win the league. Klopp and pep monopoly will soon end. there is always circle in football and they are nearing theirs. ETH came in at the right time.
Realistically any other club trying to win the title in the next few years will have to bank on some decline from those two.
Of course its possible to be as good in theory. But they are probably two of the best three sides in PL history, along with United 2006-2009, and that's just a really high standard. Fortunately, no club has ever kept up that kind of level in the long run and its a lot easier to win the league if you have to be merely very good, not one of the best sides of the last 30 years.
Of course its possible to be as good in theory. But they are probably two of the best three sides in PL history, along with United 2006-2009, and that's just a really high standard. Fortunately, no club has ever kept up that kind of level in the long run and its a lot easier to win the league if you have to be merely very good, not one of the best sides of the last 30 years.
Yeah I'm the "one dude" who cutely mentioned Everton and Newcastle. You're the cute one if you don't think Newcastle will quickly be capable of taking points off the big sides with the money they will be spending, you only need to look at City to figure out how that's going to go. You also missed the entire point. The point at large was that a factor into these two getting this many points is that a lot of the other "big" teams are a shambles right now and will get better in the next couple of years. Also, you really think Chelsea won't get sold to some other billionaire and still be competitive? Yeah we may be "demented" but you're not very bright yourself.The level is almost unrealistic now
so cute people banking on Spurs and Arsenal of all teams. Chelsea are a shit show with their owner in limbo and players may even exodus. Can they even buy players if he calls his debts? One dude even mentioned Everton + Newcastle (relegation candidates)
lets face it. Erik would do well to even be in contention. When Spurs were Champions League finalists and a Hazard lead Chelsea + Arsenal were Europa finalists they still got 97 and 96 points. Y'all are demented I swear to god.
Jose got 95 and 91 points in 2005 and 2006 and then in the following seasons we won the league with lower points. They got weaker, we got stronger, other teams got stronger.
We just need to improve ourselves, the rest will then gradually happen anyway.
We just need to improve ourselves, the rest will then gradually happen anyway.
we've got so much shit to sort out in our own back-yard it's barely worth thinking about at the moment
let's get consecutive 70 point seasons and even an 80 point season and see where we stand
chances are by the time we're a good side (which there is no guarantee of) the landscape will have changed significantly anyway
let's get consecutive 70 point seasons and even an 80 point season and see where we stand
chances are by the time we're a good side (which there is no guarantee of) the landscape will have changed significantly anyway
Essentially the PL is where La Liga was before the emergence of Athletico, a two horse race from day one.
In theory as long as we improve dramatically, we actually want the likes of spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal to improve, as more chances there are of city and Liverpool dropping points
In theory as long as we improve dramatically, we actually want the likes of spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal to improve, as more chances there are of city and Liverpool dropping points
Agree with this and it begins with the rest of the top 6. If ourselves, Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs start performing properly we can begin to show the top two aren't quite as good as everyone thinks. That chips away st their confidence and simultaneously shows the rest of the league they're beatable.
They have been great over the last four years but the other big clubs sure have made it easy for them.
There is no chance that three teams can win so main points. So, I agree with the people who are saying that we "simply" must overtook one of the two
Putting threads like this on ignore. We don't need actively deflate ourselves.
Every season is different.
96? more like 69. Stop talking as if we're gonna win the league soon.
This thread begs the question, so what are your KPIs for ETH to keep his job or get fired ?
Agree. Let's get rid of the muck and rebuild and get back to enjoying our club.
Shit can turn quicker than most think if we get our recruitment right but talkin of 90 plus points now is silly.
Mourinho got low 80s and wasn't backed. We owe that great man an apology, but any way I digress. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Need a trophy next season.
Would be lucky to get 69
Or is it the case that football moves quick?The level is almost unrealistic now
so cute people banking on Spurs and Arsenal of all teams. Chelsea are a shit show with their owner in limbo and players may even exodus. Can they even buy players if he calls his debts? One dude even mentioned Everton + Newcastle (relegation candidates)
lets face it. Erik would do well to even be in contention. When Spurs were Champions League finalists and a Hazard lead Chelsea + Arsenal were Europa finalists they still got 97 and 96 points. Y'all are demented I swear to god.
You are relying on the top two too continue there standard, what's to say that won't change?
I think what's more realistic is that Guardiola leaves City in the next couple of years and Klopp follows shortly afterwards.
It's also worth noting that Liverpool's team is ageing and they don't have a bottomless pit of money to replenish the squad like City do.
The idea that City and Liverpool will dominate for years is rubbish IMO. Sure they'll continue to carve up the league next season but beyond that it'll become more open again.
It's also worth noting that Liverpool's team is ageing and they don't have a bottomless pit of money to replenish the squad like City do.
The idea that City and Liverpool will dominate for years is rubbish IMO. Sure they'll continue to carve up the league next season but beyond that it'll become more open again.
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Not with our current squad. Just hope we can secure a top 4 finish next season with solid performances, and let's see how we build from there.
Liverpool were third last year and the title was won with a mid-80s points tally.
One season later it’s a duopoly and a points target of 96 is needed?
One season later it’s a duopoly and a points target of 96 is needed?
Agreed.
The other point I want to make is that ETH is highly unlikely to win the league with us anytime soon. We are a team whose form is akin to a team in the bottom half of the table. It is very rare for a team to go from bottom half to top of the league (especially with MCFC and LFC doing so well) in 3 years.
I think a lot of fans are putting a lot of pressure on ETH. I expect him to move us forward over the next 3 years, and then get replaced with another manager. I think that the next manager (after ETH) is the guy most likely to win us the title. If ETH wins the league, I'd happily declare him the best manager on the planet...but the odds of that happening are ridiculously low.
Don't give a shit about points just want to see us starting to go in the right direction and build on that every season. Would love to see us start playing better football and see structure and culture form under a new manager. It's going to take time and we lot need to be patient and supportive.
It's not achievable next season for sure. Let's work on 75+ points and then improve from there. I think the first 6 months might be very up and down with so much "newness" going on. I'l lbe happy with a top four and possibly a cup. BUT i want to see a system that needs tweaking the season after