Erik ten Hag vs Sancho
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
It's fecking ridiculous. From now on players (whoever they are) should be told that they have no say over numbers - that is for the club to decide, and numbers could change at short notice. It's crazy that we now have club policy seemingly dictated by manchild footballers and their agencies who just want to create a brand to rinse even more cash out of the fans. It's simple - play well enough and you earn a number, nobody should be able to use a number as a bargaining chip.
Probably threw a strop again when Mount was given the #7 this summer.
I mean instead of looking at the positive of being able to learn from one of the greatest attacking players of all time, he probably rather sulked about a number. I'm making assumptions of course, but seems to align with what we've heard.The article says he was open to listening and learning regardless of the number shit. It also says problems started when Ronaldo called a team meeting to discuss changing the teams formation to have two forwards, which would mean Sancho was dropped, and at that time Rangnick refused because Sancho had scored 3 in 4 games or something whereas Ronaldo was playing shite.
It seems the bulk of his issues are all centered around Ten Hag forcing him to change his behaviour instead of enabling it like other coaches have in the past. Previously, coaches would come and wake him up before meetings so he didn't oversleep etc.
As someone who was late most days for primary school, high school, work, etc I feel like I recognise Sancho's inability to be on time quite well! I've never been able to fix myself long term, maybe I've never really wanted to. Maybe the same can be attributed to Sancho. I generally perform above my peers though so have nearly always been allowed to be late and half-arsed. I'm not entirely convinced I'd reach higher levels if I did have better professionalism, I don't think it suits me.
Anyway, this sort of thing should absolutely have been found out before we signed him. It surely would have been established in SAF's time, as part of his character research. It's too late now but he's demonstrated time and time again that what he brings to the team is nowhere near good enough to have the rules relaxed to suit him. He's in a viscous circle situation and ultimately it can only end well for him if he's open to a move to a lower level where he can deserve a special pass.
Anyway, this sort of thing should absolutely have been found out before we signed him. It surely would have been established in SAF's time, as part of his character research. It's too late now but he's demonstrated time and time again that what he brings to the team is nowhere near good enough to have the rules relaxed to suit him. He's in a viscous circle situation and ultimately it can only end well for him if he's open to a move to a lower level where he can deserve a special pass.
That's great an all mate but I'm pretty sure you're not a millionaire who could afford to pay someone to personally wake you up every day before whatever commitments you had. I suspect his issue is not going to bed at a reasonable hour. Your job also doesn't probably involve you having to run your arse off once you arrive at 8am.
You can empathise but the reality is, he's lazy and childish, and doesn't like being told he has to change to adapt to the team. He's gotten away with murder at Dortmund because their model includes selling players for more than they bought them for, not telling these entitled kids to get to bed early, wake your arse up at a respectable time, be on time for work and put a shift in, and then ultimately selling them for peanuts when that doesn't work out.
Are we down to potty training ?
And where are all those new reports sourced from ? Seems the club doesn't think this is over...
And where are all those new reports sourced from ? Seems the club doesn't think this is over...
Such a weird situation for the player to be putting out a statement when he’s been so poor and supposedly can’t even turn up on time to training.
He's the 'scapegoat' remember? I don't know how he could say that with a straight face if he's missing training and meetings due to oversleeping.
I've seen many people lose there job over being late consistently. Why don't the club fine him a weeks wages every time he is late after three warnings. If it continues increase the fine.
Thats the problem though. He really thinks he is the victim here. Sell now
That does reflect badly on Sancho. However I wonder if this kind of care is more or less all what was needed to get a flawed character to perform on a world class level, why did United fail to do so as well?
A club definitely should not have to do thos, but after investing 80m in a player shouldn't you be ready to do a little bit extra work to get him to perform?
So basically he needs a parent to get him up and to school training on time.
Do his boots have velcro?
Do his boots have velcro?
Like giving him a few months off mid season?
We spent £80M to get him here and he has a few hundred thousand reasons to perform every week.
He is an adult now, needs to act like one and get his shit together, like the rest of us.
This is what shitty little clubs like Dortmund do. They get young lads who are surrounded by 'yes' people, who have never been challenged or told that they have to change. Then they create the perfect environment where they enable their shitty behaviour so they can sell the player on for daft money in a couple of seasons when the players stock is at its peak. If Dortmund were a proper club with ambitions to win things, they'd have put Sancho straight while he was there, but they never had any intention of doing so.
Then these players come to a team like United where these things called 'rules' and 'consequences' exist and players like Sancho can't take the hit to the ego. If Sancho's issues revolve around him going to bed late and oversleeping then he, himself can fix that by simply sorting his shit out. What's the extra bit of work United should be doing?
Ten Hag saying "Sorry lads, we can't start this meeting just yet, I've got to run back upstairs and wake Sancho up before we begin, it's my job to make sure he attends all these meetings on time. The rest of you who all got here on time can just sit quietly until I get back".
Well, whatever they do, it seems it's working better at getting the best out of their players on the pitch...
So Sancho has to be woken up to get to meetings/training on time? Wow. He's 23 not 13.
It beggars belief he can't set a fecking alarm, but also its hugely disrespectful to everyone else who does get there on time. Can't do a full strategy session for the next game because someone who might be playing can't be arsed to turn up.......no wonder the other players are turning on him, I would do exactly the same.
Its incredible this has been tolerated for so long at other teams and also with us. Happy that ETH has finally had enough, with what is coming out its surprising its taken this long for the penny to drop.
Edit - what @crossy1686 said
It beggars belief he can't set a fecking alarm, but also its hugely disrespectful to everyone else who does get there on time. Can't do a full strategy session for the next game because someone who might be playing can't be arsed to turn up.......no wonder the other players are turning on him, I would do exactly the same.
Its incredible this has been tolerated for so long at other teams and also with us. Happy that ETH has finally had enough, with what is coming out its surprising its taken this long for the penny to drop.
Edit - what @crossy1686 said
Don't get me wrong, I'm not particularly empathising, I'm just saying that I probably have the same character flaw and it's very difficult to fix. My advice in this situation would be to stay well clear of signing someone like that, unless they reliably have performance levels higher than their teammates. There's been many great players over the years who were terrible trainers but their managers/teammates let them off cause they reliably made a difference on matchday, and I'd put punctuality/over-sleepers in with that group.
We were desperate for a right winger and we took a big gamble on Sancho. It's not worked out and the time is coming to try to move him on. He needs to be a big fish in a small pond. I highly doubt we can change his character. Obviously the issue is that there's a long time to run on his deal, so maybe a loan would work best.
I’m not, in fact I think this thread would be a good case study for how poor reading/listening comprehension impacts conversations.
The core of my posts were always that he should be able to do what he wants in his time off without it being used as some sort of rally call against him - and or for conclusions such as “he doesn’t actually want to put things right“ to be made out of it because, well, it’s nonsensical. It is his time off, after all. Regardless of his remuneration.
OK? Good for you, and your employer would likely gift you some sort of employee of the month award, but what does that have anything to do with anything?
Also, “He isn't De Bruyne or Haaland who deserve a break given their effort and achievement.” - this is nonsensical in the context of this conversation.
Yes, you are emotional. Your posts carry a hostile undertone, in fact - this whole hoopla is about people reacting emotionally to a player not using their time-off in the manner they think he should. Appeals at other posters for corroboration mean nothing when half of the people don’t even know what they’re replying to - and there’s also people in this thread saying similar to what I’m saying.Oh look at you getting your knickers in a twist because i used an exclamation mark to accentuate "NY". That means i am getting all emotional? You seem like an odd person. You're simply not getting any of the other posters points that differ from yours regarding your comment. Do you honestly think that i don't think he should be allowed to go to NY on a day off? Seriously?
“Look at him not at Carrington on his day off
He surely doesn’t want to put things right. He’d rather feck off to a birthday party instead of doing drills when he’s authorised to be off - if it was me I’d clock in at dawn. What would you think of your colleague was off to a birthday bash on his time-off? He’s not even Haaland or KDB“Yeah, those are sensible takes, most assuredly.
Yeah, because our club legends like George Best and Bryan Robson were such angels.
It's nothing to do with today's footballers, it's always been like this except in the old days they'd be necking pints instead of going to the club.
Why is there this need to act like footballers and young, rich and famous people in general used to be so well behaved and professional.
But Dortmund won the German Cup with Sancho as their MVP during that campaign. They wanted to win something and they chose this approach to actually pull it off.
They knew that they had a player who didn't have the right mindset but amazing talent and found a way of mostly caring and sometimes if he too far overstepped a bit of sanctioning to get the best out of him.
A club that isn't willing to show the same kind of care should never sign someone like Sancho. Don't get me wrong, the approach you describe is absolutely fine and sounds a lot like the SAF way of dealing with players.
Signing Sancho under these circumstances was stupid and is just money burning as we see now.
Are you being deliberately obtuse? Of course he should be able to do what he wants with his time off. The fact that this is what he wants to do, given the context of his situation at the club, is what is concerning. Do you understand this point?
I'm possibly becoming an old fart and might be out of touch with reality but feck me if any of us did this at work we'd have a warning/be fired the next day. feck me, do we have some prima donnas playing for us
I'd say the thread is very storm in teacup, there's not a lot of people in disagreement that Sancho has not played to the expected level or that if "attitude issues" stay as irreconcilable as they are now it's best to organize a transfer elsewhere by next summer at the latest.
I bet he managed to turn up on time for that!
I know he went willingly too but Wan Bissaka looks like he was dragged into that party and is asking Sancho when they can leave when this picture is taken
But it mostly didn't carry over onto the pitch with them. Their attitude towards kicking the ball was still what you want. Drank hard but also trained and plyed hard.
Trouble with some of today's players is that the off pitch not giving a shit infiltrates their performances.
I think there are laws that stop this.
I listened to a podcast where Alan Shearer said that he tried to do a similar thing when he was Newcastle manger, but he couldn't legally enforce it.
Times have changed though.
If George Best turned up on the day of a game still pissed from the night before he'd be left out of the squad completely. You can't get away with that sort of behaviour anymore.
Time to put these prima donnas on commission heavy remuneration.
True but if our employers paid millions for us (presumably because we're worth even more to them in revenue), took a massive hit of sunk costs whenever they dismissed someone, couldn't hire a replacement except during a few set dates every year, we'd probably get some more leniency too.
This is where I agree the comparisons between most normal jobs and footballers stop. Though I wouldn't mind everyone be treated like that even at 100/1000/x times less wages.
The Athletic love sticking the boot into Utd. How anyone pays for that shite I’ll never know.
Sancho was probably planning to go with Rashford, but as he was selected for England he had to ask poor AWB.I know he went willingly too but Wan Bissaka looks like he was dragged into that party and is asking Sancho when they can leave when this picture is taken
Because what's even more abusrd is that the fan base/public opinion is somehow split on backing Ten Hag/Sancho, so the club are trying to spin the media in Ten Hag's favour. The issue is more of a question of why is that even a problem and why the feck are people so adamant on defending Sancho?
You would think by now we would have learnt our lesson and stopped backing our players over the manager, based on past experience.
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Talk about player power. The club are paying him thousands to do a job. If they can not do anything about it maybe something should be written into contracts to give the club some power to do so.
Aye, I literally came in and have been wanting to ask this. I don’t generally pay much attention to media, but it feels like the Athletic (is it crafton perhaps?) has been especially negative about all things man United this summer. Am I just paranoid? I mean, another perspective is that there’s been so much negative crap happening that that’s all they could have reported!
Yep, based on his form and wages for us, we were going to struggle to sell him anyway. So feck it. About time we clear the dressing room of this poison personalities
But they don’t win anything because that isn’t their focus. They focus on the individuals instead of the team. No successful team follows the dortmund model.
Media finding new ways to blame the club when a player is s**t.