If the ref deems two fouls from the same player to be yellow cards, then he's off. The occasion, the competition, how long into the match it is, the stadium it's being played in, the player's hair style, it's all totally irrelevant. There are either rules, or there aren't.
Europa Semi Finals
- Thread starter montpelier
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Yeah it looks grim. They'll presumably send a depleted squad to Old Trafford on Sunday, get KO'd from Europe next week and then it's just Burnley, Leicester away, and finally Huddersfield away (who may well need a result to stay in the league).
Of course it would be typical of Arsenal to finally turn up for a game at Old Trafford and put in a performance when it doesn't even matter anymore...
Yes exactly, some baffling decisions he managed to feck up like the knee high challenge by Ramsey, or the stamp from Lacazette, while still trying to compensate to Athletico for the sending off and giving the spaniards every 50;50.
I went into this game wanting to see an entertaining game, but the shocking ref made me feel sorry for Atletico so I ended up cheering the Atletico goal. Hopefully the 2nd leg has a lot of goals, but it's unlikely with Atletico.
I think there were only two yellow cards in that game, absolutely baffling.
Reminded me of Oliver. Very strict early on then lets players hack each other down for the next hour.
I think there were only two yellow cards in that game, absolutely baffling.
All depends on how well they come to terms with not being in the Champions League again (should they not turnaround the tie) - I can imagine it must feel like an absolute kick in the balls for your career. And so as much as they'll want to win their remaining league games for Wenger, it'll be hard to shake that feeling of deflation.
At least we had an F.A Cup final to focus on when we made a hash of the West Ham game.
If every ref used that logic we would be seeing comedy every week, and might as well develop some robot or computer to ref games in the future. There are rules and then there are refs to apply them sensibly in order to keep a balance. This ref sent off a player for a tactical foul in the second minute and a late challenge in the 10th, then for the remainder of the game he tried to compensate for that decision by giving every 50;50 decision to Athletico, and still managed to miss out some stone wall yellows against Ramsey/Lacazette. He can deem those two fouls however he likes, but that was one abysmal refereeing performance and mainly due to his own incompetence.
Every ref should use that logic. Given that that 'logic' = the rules. He absolutely shouldn't have tried to compensate for his decisions if he felt they were correct.
Feck the Wenger send off. Hope Atletico stuff them next week.
You’re right, I gave them too much credit for some reason.
For the sake of the children, don't. I don't trust this Arsenal to keep clean sheet. Even as dominant and against 10 men Atletico, they could concede, they're not to concede away from home is a pipe dream
I like that. The law and order type. With that kind of logic, you would probably never exceed the speed limit, would you?
Thank feck they don't.
No.
Arsenal fans on a podcast saying that ref had a perfect game and the tackle by Ramsey on Correa was the best tackle of the game 
Lukaku is chopped down with a horrendous red card offence while clean through against Liverpool in the 2nd minute. Hey, give the defender a yellow, otherwise, it will ruin the game? Agree?
To be honest whenever he went it was always going to a damp squib after he selfishly signed up for another two years.
I am loving it, cause I hate the twat and always have done, his spectacular arrgogance and hubris during his time there makes him a very hard character to feel anything other than an intense dislike for.
None of those 2 yellow cards was horrendous nor malicious, nor denying a goal scoring opportunity so I'm not sure why you think your ecample is of any relevance. Letting go of Vrsaljko for that second late challenge would have hardly ruined the game, the sending off did.
Here is arsenal profiting from a horrendous decision like you mentioned.
Typical Arsenal that. Any of the top 4 would've scored 2/3 tonight.
What the heck !! Both fouls by the Athletico player were stonewall yellow cards after which both sides did their upmost to con him into further action , also he had no option what's so ever to send Simone to the stands aka Pep the other week.
For once the ref did ok and any criticism of him are totally groundless, believe me I have been slating refs for 40 years both professionally and even worse at amateur level.
For once the ref did ok and any criticism of him are totally groundless, believe me I have been slating refs for 40 years both professionally and even worse at amateur level.
IMO every ref "should" stick to the letter of the law, but also yellow's are handed out FAR too easily in certain situations.
Both tackles deserved yellows which was fair, but I think back to the Herrera yellow against Chelsea, and he got a yellow for a simple trip where he was a tiny bit late. That should never be a yellow if it was a genuine challenge. Fouls happen in football and not every foul should be rewarded with a card.
This. Tonight reminded me how much I used to hate Arsenal and their deluded fans. I too hope they are battered in Spain to leave them with no more excuses. But first let's get them bruised at OT. Then Atletico to deliver the knockout punch.
And if a referee gives three penalties against your lads for use of arms in the box the first five minutes of a CL final, you would probably be praising him aswell. And that is fine, it makes you special, and that’s fine. I’d wager most on here would be livid though.
Especially since English refereeing is built on a policy of game managment rather than on rule upholding. Drokk it!
haha nice
Hope the stuffing will be done over the weekend..
That goes without saying. I want a Sanchez hat trick this weekend followed by Costa scoring 2 offside goals and a penalty from a dive next Thursday.
Cheers I'll drink to that. ..
The constant feckin around and not taking the chances they had will probably cost Arsenal the tie now. Why the feck do they try to pass the ball into the net ffs? If there was a term like "extra pass" in football like there is in basketball, Arsenal would be the masters of that. Instead of shooting and killing the game, they choose to pass the ball in six-yard box needlessly. And if you feck around too much and not take your chances like they did, you are always in danger to concede in football. That's the most prevailing unwritten law in football imo.
That just seems to turn into an excuse for poor refereeing. Any time a referee is inconsistent or fails to uphold the rules, he was just managing the game. Which could include not giving cards for early dangerous fouls, or giving a card for the first foul to 'send a message', or being lenient to the home side to placate the crowd. All it does is typically derail management of the game as the players aren't stupid and cotton onto what is happening. Like in this game, where the early cards just led to both sides trying their utmost to con the ref into brandishing some more.
He wasnt consistent on his decisions. If he had put same measures to other fouls the game would have seen more than 1 red. The Wellback dive was the best example.
Fixed. This scenario actually happened.
I think both points of view have some merit here.
1) all fouls get treated the same or 2) some leeway early doors to manage the game
1) is more logical & easier to argue but I still go with 2) because imposing the laws & management of the game are NOT exactly the same thing & I think that game management is more important than total accuracy where it isn't absolutely essential - it's also worth pointing out that a very decent % of incidents for yellow cards for example are a matter of opinion. For instance, the Madrid guy is slightly pushed before, I think, his first tackle which doesn't have a lot to it anyway. Ramsey looked like he played the ball to me, no one got hurt, not a card for me either. But based on earlier, Madrid are not getting a fair deal here, if I say that. Other people think it's a yellow card anyway, even if he did get the ball.
I would just try & be fair but in doing that my early decisions (probably leniency, possibly technically wrong even) will affect later ones.
Let's say there's a 1st minute 50/50 penalty - that I can reasonably give or not give. Either that sets my standard for later penalties or it doesn't because I am 100 % consistent - but I don't think I am. I give you the penalty, I probably don't give you the 2nd soft one later but am a bit more generous to the opposition on their claim so that things 'even out' - I'm trying to be fair. More likely, I don't give it & in game management terms I have more options, Arsenal can have the next one, I've set my standard for what constitutes a pen and I can disallow a later Madrid possible pen with a clear conscience because I've been fair. And most important, I haven't committed myself & closed off these options in the first minute.
My argument for this is harder than the one the other way around but I give you a better game of football with this approach more often than applying the letter of the law before I have to. Refereeing is not an exact science I'm afraid.
1) all fouls get treated the same or 2) some leeway early doors to manage the game
1) is more logical & easier to argue but I still go with 2) because imposing the laws & management of the game are NOT exactly the same thing & I think that game management is more important than total accuracy where it isn't absolutely essential - it's also worth pointing out that a very decent % of incidents for yellow cards for example are a matter of opinion. For instance, the Madrid guy is slightly pushed before, I think, his first tackle which doesn't have a lot to it anyway. Ramsey looked like he played the ball to me, no one got hurt, not a card for me either. But based on earlier, Madrid are not getting a fair deal here, if I say that. Other people think it's a yellow card anyway, even if he did get the ball.
I would just try & be fair but in doing that my early decisions (probably leniency, possibly technically wrong even) will affect later ones.
Let's say there's a 1st minute 50/50 penalty - that I can reasonably give or not give. Either that sets my standard for later penalties or it doesn't because I am 100 % consistent - but I don't think I am. I give you the penalty, I probably don't give you the 2nd soft one later but am a bit more generous to the opposition on their claim so that things 'even out' - I'm trying to be fair. More likely, I don't give it & in game management terms I have more options, Arsenal can have the next one, I've set my standard for what constitutes a pen and I can disallow a later Madrid possible pen with a clear conscience because I've been fair. And most important, I haven't committed myself & closed off these options in the first minute.
My argument for this is harder than the one the other way around but I give you a better game of football with this approach more often than applying the letter of the law before I have to. Refereeing is not an exact science I'm afraid.
Diego Simeone rules! The man oozes passion which is expressed out on the pitch through his players. Arsenal weren't bad by any means but they were up against a tough unit. Atletico were so well drilled which again is down to the manager. And their keeper? Nearest I've seen to DDG. Great game of football. High entertainment value which in the end sorted the men from the boys.
Hopefully now Arsenal dont show up Sunday because of needing a result in the second leg.
As for last nights game it was probably the most Arsenal result you can think of.
As for last nights game it was probably the most Arsenal result you can think of.
They were both yellow cards. So he was sent off. 'Ruining the game' has nothing to do with it. It's not a factor.None of those 2 yellow cards was horrendous nor malicious, nor denying a goal scoring opportunity so I'm not sure why you think your ecample is of any relevance. Letting go of Vrsaljko for that second late challenge would have hardly ruined the game, the sending off did.
Here is arsenal profiting from a horrendous decision like you mentioned.
Here's a novel idea, don't make stupid fouls early in the game and you won't get sent off.
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How did Welbeck not get a yellow for that blatant dive in the lead up to the Atletico goal, fantastic referee
OK Mr. Rule book, let's agree to disagree.
Think they will. Don't really expect Welbeck, Ozil, Lacs, Ramsey etc to start.
Having an opinion would be to say you think DDG is better.
"By a mile" is actually ridiculous. Only shows you don't watch football outside EPL but at the same time you have no problem commenting on what you don't actually watch. Proper EPL fan logic.
As opposed to you who is demonstrating his opinion using facts. Thus meaning your statement was an opinion, not a fact. Feel free to think otherwise.
Brilliant.