European Energy Crisis

[Chief123]

On this, if I were to put my thermostat at say 20 degrees rather than 24, would the radiators still get warm and would I feel any impact? Aware that this comes across as a very stupid question but I have always just turned it up to say 24/25 degrees for the heating to be 'on' and then turned it off once the house is warm enough.

25 is too high mate. You’ll be getting smashed on gas usage cost.

Around 21 degrees is comfortable. However, the way it works is your thermostat will normally have a thermometer inside it which is used to measure the temperature in that particular room. If you’ve set it to 21 and it falls below that, then the central heating will come on and switch off automatically to maintain a temp of 21.

The key thing is placing the thermometer in a sensible location. If you put it it in a really cold room which isn’t the average temperature of your house, then it’s going to think your whole house is freezing and remain on until that room gets warmed up.

The whole point of the thermostat is to control your heating coming on and off when needed to maintain a set temperature. If you put it to a temp that it never can get to, then that’s the same as just putting the central heating to “on” manually regardless of temp.

 

[hodgey123]

Cheers both - aware of how incredibly stupid those questions were but I'll definitely be changing how I use it going forwards! I guess me just cranking it up to 25 to turn it on means that the boiler is constantly generating to try and achieve a temperature it realistically is never going to reach i.e. the most energy intensive and expensive mode possible!

 

[UweBein]

On this, if I were to put my thermostat at say 20 degrees rather than 24, would the radiators still get warm and would I feel any impact? Aware that this comes across as a very stupid question but I have always just turned it up to say 24/25 degrees for the heating to be 'on' and then turned it off once the house is warm enough.

Yep, sorry for the misunderstanding. The 25° were just for the Initial heating period to ensure for the house to heat up quickly.

 

[Xeno]

Yep, sorry for the misunderstanding. The 25° were just for the Initial heating period to ensure for the house to heat up quickly.

That’s not how it works I’m afraid. It’s either on or off!

 

[Beans]

Yep, sorry for the misunderstanding. The 25° were just for the Initial heating period to ensure for the house to heat up quickly.

I don't think turning it up higher causes the house to warm any faster. It will get hotter, but won't reach any particular temperature any faster.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

On this, if I were to put my thermostat at say 20 degrees rather than 24, would the radiators still get warm and would I feel any impact? Aware that this comes across as a very stupid question but I have always just turned it up to say 24/25 degrees for the heating to be 'on' and then turned it off once the house is warm enough.

Yep, sorry for the misunderstanding. The 25° were just for the Initial heating period to ensure for the house to heat up quickly.

 

[Stanley Road]

There is no energy crisis, there is a market price crisis full stop.

 

[frostbite]

I am curious: Do the Germans inside Germany discuss the responsibility of Merkel's government in this energy crisis?

I goggled: "is Merkel responsible for the energy crisis?"

... and the first result is an article from India! Do the Germans discuss their past policies and how the decisions of their leaders contributed to the problem we have today? I believe that discussing the past may help us avoid doing the same mistakes in the future.

https://www.indianarrative.com/econ...ble-for-her-countrys-energy-crisis-38089.html

 

[nimic]

That’s not how it works I’m afraid. It’s either on or off!

Not if he has a heat pump.

 

[Chief123]

Yep, sorry for the misunderstanding. The 25° were just for the Initial heating period to ensure for the house to heat up quickly.

Same as climate control in a car. Putting it to a higher temperature won’t speed up the process. It will get to your specified temperature as quick as it can.

 

[UweBein]

Same as climate control in a car. Putting it to a higher temperature won’t speed up the process. It will get to your specified temperature as quick as it can.

Don't know about that. It definitely reaches a higher Internal temperature if the target temperature is higher, whereas with a lower target temperature the gas burning process results in a lower internal temperature.

 

[Beans]

Energy prices are returning to normal levels, at least for now.

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[nimic]

Energy prices are returning to normal levels, at least for now.

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I know nothing at all about energy price trend lines, but that graph seems... ominous.

 

[Beans]

I know nothing at all about energy price trend lines, but that graph seems... ominous.

Back before the last trend down from that crazy peak I was pretty worried.

Maybe I still should be but I don’t really know why the price is where it is now, except the winter build up in Europe has been completed, and was driving up the price.

I assume higher winter demand will effect prices but who knows how much.

 

[Eyepopper]

Shell post third-quarter profit of $9.45 billion

That's nice for them.

Double q3 profits in 2021.

 

[Kaush949]

Came across this video

 

[11101]

Back before the last trend down from that crazy peak I was pretty worried.

Maybe I still should be but I don’t really know why the price is where it is now, except the winter build up in Europe has been completed, and was driving up the price.

I assume higher winter demand will effect prices but who knows how much.

Europe's gas storage is completely full, there are ships full of gas waiting off the coast with nowhere to unload, and consumption has plummeted as people cut back on usage. Gas prices actually went negative last week. The crisis is effectively over, though as everything is done on forward contracts it will be a few months before it filters down to the consumer.

 

[mitChley]

Europe's gas storage is completely full, there are ships full of gas waiting off the coast with nowhere to unload, and consumption has plummeted as people cut back on usage. Gas prices actually went negative last week. The crisis is effectively over, though as everything is done on forward contracts it will be a few months before it filters down to the consumer.

Hopefully deals to fix looking promising in the nearish future then?

 

[Beans]

Europe's gas storage is completely full, there are ships full of gas waiting off the coast with nowhere to unload, and consumption has plummeted as people cut back on usage. Gas prices actually went negative last week. The crisis is effectively over, though as everything is done on forward contracts it will be a few months before it filters down to the consumer.

I hope you’re right.

 

[11101]

Hopefully deals to fix looking promising in the nearish future then?

I'm no expert on commodity trading but i think they usually buy oil and gas on 6 month forwards and futures, so it takes 6 months to filter down. The energy price cap is done every 3 months.

 

[UweBein]

......The crisis is effectively over, though as everything is done on forward contracts it will be a few months before it filters down to the consumer.

Well, somehow this is still news to many companies in Germany.
My local gas company is still not accepting any new customers.

But yeah, so many people are installing PVs and heating pumps - it's kind of unreal.

If you want to install PV on your roof you might need to wait until Spring just to get a proposal. And of course heating pumps are a scarce commodity so there are reports of thefts of already installed heating pumps.

 

[11101]

Well, somehow this is still news to many companies in Germany.
My local gas company is still not accepting any new customers.

But yeah, so many people are installing PVs and heating pumps - it's kind of unreal.

If you want to install PV on your roof you might need to wait until Spring just to get a proposal. And of course heating pumps are a scarce commodity so there are reports of thefts of already installed heating pumps.

They're presumably still paying wholesale prices from 6 months ago, that's why. Current prices are higher than normal but nothing crazy like they were.

 

[SirAF]

I hope you’re right.

https://graphics.reuters.com/UKRAINE-CRISIS/EUROPE-GAS/zdvxozxzopx/

yup

 

[UweBein]

They're presumably still paying wholesale prices from 6 months ago, that's why. Current prices are higher than normal but nothing crazy like they were.

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Beans]

https://graphics.reuters.com/UKRAINE-CRISIS/EUROPE-GAS/zdvxozxzopx/

yup

I won't pretend I understand how international demand for energy works, there are still experts predicting that prices will go up in the winter. Just because Europe won't run out of energy this winter doesn't end the crisis. Industries that rely on natural gas still can't afford to operate.

 

[UweBein]

So, have been paying just 4.85 Cent per KWh so far. New Deal from April takes me to 9.6 cents per kWh. It's a 100% raise, but still way better than the prices of a few months ago.

 

[Bert_]

https://graphics.reuters.com/UKRAINE-CRISIS/EUROPE-GAS/zdvxozxzopx/

yup

Slightly off topic but who thought visualising it this way was a good idea? Terrible chart.

 

[VorZakone]

A new breed of traders is upending Europe's energy markets.

As renewable sources expanded, the nature of the market changed too. Whereas the biggest impact of weather used to be on demand, the surge of renewables meant it soon began to mostly affect supply.

A foggy morning resulted in little solar power; a calm week equaled zero wind generation. And vice-versa: At times, the problem was too much insolation and wind meaning prices could fall below zero, with producers having to pay consumers to use energy. The European electricity grid became much more captive to sharp swings in price.

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