Bayern Munich are going to be in the 15.
European Super League
- Thread starter esmufc07
- Start date
I will watch it but I think it'll be as soulless as the Europa League group stages.
The glamour of facing Madrid, Barca etc will quickly lose its glamour when it's a weekly thing. The lure of CL is those big nights that can happen, that you want to happen. The thrill of the group stage draw, the nerves of the knockout draw. When you can pencil in those games with certainty throughout the season, every season then the magic is gone.
Give me a dog fight like today against Burnley over some super league bollocks.
Stubborn is not really the "S" word I'd use for you lotYou underestimate how stubborn we can be.
It is communism for the rich. Everyone stays in the league and no relegation. No free fight and everyone gets equal doing money even ending last and playing like shite.I'm sure a communistic league would go swimmingly!
Surprised there weren't any post match questions to Ole and the players. They must have heard about it long before we did.
I don't think it's so far removed from the current champions league that it will make any real impact, no. At least not on the info I've seen so far.
These are clubs who typically consistently qualify for the champions league at the expense of these clubs you claim to care about.
If anything, this means the likes of Everton, West Ham, Wolves etc will qualify for the other 2 and actually get European nights. Maybe less prestigious but still another competition which would probably still bring then more revenue etc.
What you say seems to assume that this is the one and only competition that exists or matters. It isn't now and won't be then. It adds a layer and maybe the entry to the very top is nigh on impossible but they still get to have a European night against a team like Roma or Lyon.
Instead of there being 2 competitions - champions league and europa - there will be 3, those 2 and the super league.
I'm not even saying I'm in favour but trying to at least think it through. Are these completely invalid points?
Tell it to Isiah. I just thought it was funny.
Although it's not yet confirmed who the extra three will be.
Because we automatically qualify for Europe each season. It doesn't matter how shit we are, the pressure is gone. The club knows we're guaranteed a horrendous amount of money, bad form and results will mean feck all. The final positions will also mean... feck all. It'll mostly be based on their European form because thats where each club will be rebranding themselves to be known for. That's the whole point of this breakaway, to make each club a filthy amount of cash. This means by default the domestic league will be tarnished.
Don't forget, the Managers aren't the ones with the power here, they'll be told where the focus will be by the owners and if they ignore that they'll be sacked. Simple as that and more to the point, the clubs will have the money to do it fairly easily now.
Honestly, so far the only one with ridiculous arguments is you. You seem to actually believe nothing is going to change re the other trophies when the ESL will simply be far more important than any other league or cup. You are day dreaming if you believe the opinion of Rashford or even Ole will matter.
Wake up. If you are out of title race by December there will be absolutely no reason for you to keep on playing with full intensity in the league. The rest of the games will be some dead rubber used to prepare the players for the mid week games. If you believe that we will keep playing with high intensity and full strength in the league once we are +10 points away from the first spot then, yeah, you need to review your logic.
There was. Ole was asked about it and pleaded ignorance but also said he expected there would be an announcement later which didn't really tally.
It's the american dream, to quote MLK:
"socialism for the rich and rugged free market capitalism for the poor."
Any potential spending cap would be there solely to keep more money in the pockets of the owners. "OK we're all earning an extra £xxx million per season...but lets all agree to keep transfer fees artifically low."
Sporting parity would be - at best - an unintended consequence of that.
It also (further) hurts teams who aren't in the Super League because 1: They're making a tiny fraction of the money that the SL teams are, and 2. On top of that, now they also won't be benefitting from any 'trickle down' money by receiving larger transfer fees for any star players they develop
Is this completely it though? How do we know there won't ever, ever, ever be a review? They will want it to be an entertaining product, surely?
I'm sure there will be a commitment period or review period, something where changes could be made etc. They want the most money, so they need the best product. This is how it is now isn't it?
Playing like shite? This keeps coming up time and time and time again. Why do you assume players will just play like shite? You may be that fickle but I don't believe players are. You're basically questioning the integrity, passion, desire etc of a whole tok of players. I'd actually be quite offended if I were a player. Who are you to suggest I'll just down tools?
And you actually have the nerve to call other people's arguments "ridiculous".
You realize the difference between these clubs qualifying to CL by actually earning it and finishing high up in the table in comparison to be gifted the position just because they're founders and elites?
So, is it hipster to be pro-Super League?
The word is sexy right? Riggggght?Stubborn is not really the "S" word I'd use for you lot
The FCUM folks must be feeling super validated
Take one last listen if the cl anthem
As a fan of one of the clubs that in theory stands to be edited, my gut is this:
Europa league dies, it just isn't viable any longer, if not dead i don't think any prem league team bothers with it.
Champs basically morphs into europa league. As a West ham fan I wouldn't be against it per say but that undermines my last point.
Youd have nothing short of a total football collapse throughout the league By removing the big 6 (either de facto or by them only playing B teams) you massively reduce the money from sponsors. Most prem and championships are loaded with debt and once that tv gravy deal ends most clubs are effectively done for financially. Itd trigger a fire sale yet further destroying any semblance of competition left. Without the prem revenue flowing down, you'll probably kill off 50% of all lower league teams with it.
So yes in theory there maybe more money for West Ham through Europe, but the amounts will be modest at best and vastly dwarfed by a far inferior tv package.
You also run the risk of a Leeds circa 2000 situation where a club puts everything it has into a spell of high performance to try and get onto the gravy train.
Should this go through our leagues will be greatly reduced and like a tree snapped from the rich roots, slowly wither and die, with just a few clubs with relative sugar daddies rolling the roost, effectively morphing into a new big 4/6.
Oh dear, do you not do reading too good or something? That's not what I said at all. I wasn't talking about the founders and elites. You have the nerve to try and patronise me when you can't even comprehend what I'm saying?
What I said has nothing to do with the founding clubs. I'm not talking about them qualifying for anything. I'm specifically talking about something completely different - other clubs and them now taking part in things like the champions league.
I also specifically say "I'm not even saying I'm in favour but trying to at least think it through". I'm just contemplating arguments, weighing up pros and cons, trying to give it enough thought to make a considered, rational opinion.
"If anything, this means the likes of Everton, West Ham, Wolves etc will qualify for the other 2 and actually get European nights. Maybe less prestigious but still another competition which would probably still bring then more revenue etc"
What about this is me making an argument for elite clubs not having to qualify for a super league? I literally make reference to OTHER competitions. I'm not even making an argument, I'm asking questions, contemplating. I am CLEARLY just considering IF this could have any kind of benefit to clubs who don't ever currently qualify for the champions league. The clubs you seem to claim to care about but don't care that some of them haven't had a single European game in their history. I'm just raising the question of whether this means the likes of Southampton could end up playing the likes of Roma and having their own European journey and if it does, could their fans like that? Could it be a positive? Is it better than what it is now - never qualifying and never having a realistic hope. Southampton fans probably don't ever expect to be playing against Barcelona and the like regularly. Will this not potentially open space in the CL and europa for those teams to have a level of European football (even if its considered less prestigious)?
I'm not usually one to write words in Upper case, it's a dumb way to type but I'm making an exception because it clearly was too subtle before.
Why are you pretending to care about the likes of Southampton and Co not being able to qualify for the top level of European competition? I responded to say I don't think they have much more chance now than they would then.
well said
America is creating a super league!
Off the top of my head, I do believe you are correct.
The other clubs have a chance to play in CL now, they don't have a chance to play in Super League.
West Ham and Leicester have a chance to qualify for CL this season, but sure let's give a permanent position to fecking Arsenal who haven't qualified for CL in +4 years and have been around 8th and 10th in the league 2 seasons in a row because sure why not?
One hundred per cent. That's how the world works. The rich and powerful don't want real free competition; they want to keep what they have and make more without the threat of competition. Look at the bank bail outs and the privatisations - socialism for the rich, risk for the rest. United and the other Super League clubs are the one per cent. It's like a Mafia shake down: the decision has been made and we are expected to pay up.
PSG
Yeah it sounds terrible. It's a threat to UEFA, I don't think they can actually follow through with the terms. It's absolutely ridiculous. They tried to make a point today.
I think you're assuming a hell of a lot here and I don't find it compelling at all.
It's all just very tin foil hat. Most clubs currently want to do as best they can in all or at least most competitions. The league cup is a bit of an exception but you can't see we aren't bothering with anyrhing outside of just qualifying for the champions league.
I actually think it's quite absurd. It's fans who have been getting at Ole for not resting players, bow you're worried he'll do it too much? I can't get why you think all of a sudden professional footballers who love the game and have a natural determination and drive to win - hence why they are where they are - will suddenly all just not bother and managers will lose all control. It just stinks of over the top, panic reaction.
Of course it matters how shit we are. You think it's good for business to have fans kicking off because we're losing so much? We've lost 4 league games this year and fans have been bad enough. You honestly think they'll be cool letting it completely slide, have us finishing tenth etc 'because it doesn't matter if we're shit'?
It just devalues their product because the fans become less interested and more disillusioned.
I'm now coming across like I'm pro super league, purely because I'm having to push back on how absurd some of this shite is.
Everything has its own culture and history. Football has its own culture and history. I don't think we should destroy the culture and history. That's all I can say.
So would these clubs be exempt from financial fair play
They will bid to buy UEFA
Everything you said is completely valid. Unfortunately, the wealth aspect seeped into football a long time ago and it was going to eventually rear its ugly head (I mean it did a couple of times on occasion). There will be more instances of greed taking over football, this is not the first nor the last.
Maybe so but it won't matter to the viewer. If we can't win the league and I know it doesn't matter if we finish 4th or 8th the game becomes a friendly and my interest, passion for the fixture dwindles.
Last 7 years we never really challenged for the league but it was exciting anyways. We had a battle to the last round to qualify for the CL. Last year it was exciting to the very last round. To watch a game that means nothing, isn't very fun for me atleast and with the Super-League the league could be dead by round 30.
Yeah a big if, and absolutely not confirmed officially anywhere. In fairness to him he posted this information in January and he got the 15 + 5 club number right, as well as the total financial figure.
Only reason that Tottenham were invited was because of Pochettino accomplishment. They should not be in this league regardless despite where Pochettino took them
Assuming this gets off the ground, those major clubs won't be able to say no. Sponsorships etc. are going to all flock to the ESL. There is just too large a potential payout with the ESL for clubs to ignore.
You think the Glazers care whether we win the League Cup, or the FA cup? They only care whether we qualify for the CL, and that's because of the finances - not the glory. And the ESL will just mean that there's even less pressure on performances on the pitch because we're a founder member, we're in. Of course our manager and players will want to win, but do you think that manager will receive significant backing in the transfer market? Why would the Glazers spend 150m to challenge for trophies when they can now spend 40m and still play in Europe all season. This is an appalling move for football in general, but it's also appalling for United, because unlike City, PSG etc we're not funded as a PR vanity project, nor are we run like Barca and Real - with a need to win trophies so you get re-elected as club president. We're run as a cash-cow for the Glazers, and this move means they'll be able to suck more money out of the club while leaving us further and further behind on the pitch.
They will have more of a chance to qualify for the champions league. The super league won't be the one and only competition, unless I've missed something?
Will the champions league and europa still exist, yes or no?
Will the super league clubs be excluded from entry, yes or no?
Does that mean other teams will qualify in their place, yes or no?
This is all I'm asking and all I'm considering is could this be good for those clubs, if the answers above are yes, yes and yes.
You're missing me completely, I'm suggesting this could mean those clubs actually do see European football. Rather than now where they can but likely won't ever qualify.
How many teams in the entire English football league have ever qualified for the champions league? How many teams have done it more than once? How many different teams have ever won the Premier League?
You're acting like this replaces all other competitions and the entry is barred. It's doesn't, it seems to add another layer and yes, that very top layer is closed off mostly but it actually then opens up space and competition in the other two.
It might not, I'm just considering it, stop straw manning me and making it out like I'm making arguments that I'm not. I've specifically said every time that I'm not arguing this is fact, I'm considering if it's possible and if so, are there potential upsides for other clubs that didn't exist before?
Not once have I said give a position to anyone for anything. At this point I have to think you're just not capable of having a conversation, you just don't read what's being said and can't form an appropriate response at all.