Evans vs Brown vs Smalling vs Jones as Centre Back

[diarm]

I think Smalling might be pound for pound, the most overrated United player of all time.

He was absolute dogshit, consistently for almost his entire time at the club. Had he been the substitute behind better defenders that Brown or Evans were, he'd be a Titus Bramble or William Prunier level punchline to the keynotes of United history.

I've seen people in this thread argue that he's better because he was our best defender at one stage, while Brown and Evans were only back ups - ignoring the fact that those two were able back ups that performed in key matches on route to winning trophies, while Smalling was a key underperforming lynchpin at the centre of the worst United sides I've ever seen.

Phil Jones gets fully deserved abuse for being an awful defender, but if I was building a League One team tomorrow and had my pick of either, I would pick the gurning worker 100 times for every once I would pick Smalling.

The answer to this thread is:

1. Brown
...
25. Evans
...
113,798. Jones
...
4,973,255 Smalling

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I think Smalling might be pound for pound, the most overrated United player of all time.

He was absolute dogshit, consistently for almost his entire time at the club. Had he been the substitute behind better defenders that Brown or Evans were, he'd be a Titus Bramble or William Prunier level punchline to the keynotes of United history.

I've seen people in this thread argue that he's better because he was our best defender at one stage, while Brown and Evans were only back ups - ignoring the fact that those two were able back ups that performed in key matches on route to winning trophies, while Smalling was a key underperforming lynchpin at the centre of the worst United sides I've ever seen.

Phil Jones gets fully deserved abuse for being an awful defender, but if I was building a League One team tomorrow and had my pick of either, I would pick the gurning worker 100 times for every once I would pick Smalling.

The answer to this thread is:

1. Brown
...
25. Evans
...
113,798. Jones
...
4,973,255 Smalling

I get it that you don’t rate Smalling. However, you provide zero reason why you picked Jones over Smalling. While Smalling went on loan to Roma, no single club are interested to sign Jones on loan, and if you pick Jones over Smalling for your league one, luckily you aren’t manager because you’ll be wasting your money on a player who always get injured.

 

[diarm]

I get it that you don’t rate Smalling. However, you provide zero reason why you picked Jones over Smalling. While Smalling went on loan to Roma, no single club are interested to sign Jones on loan, and if you pick Jones over Smalling for your league one, luckily you aren’t manager because you’ll be wasting your money on a player who always get injured.

Jones is crap too. And you are right, he is always injured. But between the two, I just think Jones is the more honest and hard working player. When I'm faced with two equally shite options, I'll pick the honest trier over the ego every time.

Smalling only ever plays well after he's made a mistake or shipped some criticism. As soon as he feels comfortable or vindicated, he switches off into coast mode again and struts about as though he were the second coming of Rio Ferdinand.

 

[buckooo1978]

if we are being honest with ourselves I dont think we could describe Smalling or Jones as reliable defenders.

Smalling has a good short period under LVG but otherwise he's been a liability like Jones. They have never dominated strikers or been commanding.

With VAR I wonder how many penalties he would have given away this season too.

Brown and Evans were reliable and selling Evans was a major and costly error by LVG

 

[POF]

if we are being honest with ourselves I dont think we could describe Smalling or Jones as reliable defenders.

Smalling has a good short period under LVG but otherwise he's been a liability like Jones. They have never dominated strikers or been commanding.

With VAR I wonder how many penalties he would have given away this season too.

Brown and Evans were reliable and selling Evans was a major and costly error by LVG

Have you ever seen Smalling or Jones have such a nightmarish performance as Evans in the 6-1 vs City? The only thing that cut short his utter humiliation at the hands of Balotelli was getting sent off. Then there was the MK Dons game under LVG and pretty much every other performance that season.

Wes was also incredibly reckless and was talented but anything but a reliable player. Was there ever a season where Wes was first choice centre back in a successful defence?

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Jones is crap too. And you are right, he is always injured. But between the two, I just think Jones is the more honest and hard working player. When I'm faced with two equally shite options, I'll pick the honest trier over the ego every time.

Smalling only ever plays well after he's made a mistake or shipped some criticism. As soon as he feels comfortable or vindicated, he switches off into coast mode again and struts about as though he were the second coming of Rio Ferdinand.

How do you know that Jones is the one more honest & hard working player?

I find your statement is very biased there.

 

[diarm]

How do you know that Jones is the one more honest & hard working player?

I find your statement is very biased there.

Biased? I don't know either of them from Adam so I don't know where any bias would come from.

My opinion of which one works a harder, and gives more effort to the team is based purely on what I watch of them playing. It's not a personal attack on either.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Biased? I don't know either of them from Adam so I don't know where any bias would come from.

My opinion of which one works a harder, and gives more effort to the team is based purely on what I watch of them playing. It's not a personal attack on either.

It's biased because you called Jones is more honest and works harder with nothing to back it up. Anyone can make random statement "based on what I watch", because from what I watched, Smalling is better. May be you could give some examples to back it up.

 

[diarm]

It's biased because you called Jones is more honest and works harder with nothing to back it up. Anyone can make random statement "based on what I watch", because from what I watched, Smalling is better. May be you could give some examples to back it up.

It's an opinion mate. I'm not in a position to whack a distance tracker on the two boys and provide you with the science you seem to be demanding supliment the opinions of random punters.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

It's an opinion mate. I'm not in a position to whack a distance tracker on the two boys and provide you with the science you seem to be demanding supliment the opinions of random punters.

So it's a biased opinion then? I'm not disagree or agree here. I'm just questioning your weird statement. If someone prefers Jones over Smalling because he has more raw talent or he's younger or he loves to make sliding tackle, sure that's a person's choice.

However, to claim a player to works harder & being honest is something you need to view them off the pitch. How do you know player is being more honest when Smalling committed less fouls & cards?

 

[diarm]

So it's a biased opinion then? I'm not disagree or agree here. I'm just questioning your weird statement. If someone prefers Jones over Smalling because he's has more raw talent or he's younger or he loves to make sliding tackle, sure that's a person's choice.

However, to claim a player to works harder & being honest is something you need to view them off the pitch. How do you know player is being more honest when Smalling committed less fouls & cards?

Jesus I couldn't be any less interested in this tedious argument.

Why would viewing anything off the pitch be relevant to my opinion of a player on it? And the honesty i'm on about was honesty and effort to the shirt and the team, not to the referee or the rulebook.

I reckon I've seen about ten threads in the last week alone where you've gone out of your way to drag genuine and inoffensive posters into irritating and tedious arguments about opinions or non-issues. I would tell you I think you're a bellend but you'd probably ask me to draw a diagram to back up that opinion as well.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Jesus I couldn't be any less interested in this tedious argument.

Why would viewing anything off the pitch be relevant to my opinion of a player on it? And the honesty i'm on about was honesty and effort to the shirt and the team, not to the referee or the rulebook.

I reckon I've seen about ten threads in the last week alone where you've gone out of your way to drag genuine and inoffensive posters into irritating and tedious arguments about opinions or non-issues. I would tell you I think you're a bellend but you'd probably ask me to draw a diagram to back up that opinion as well.

I'm starting the discussion to ask why you made the statement, you are in a thread that I created, I have right to ask you why you think that way about Jones & Smalling. Just because you don't like being questioned related to your opinion doesn't mean I am being offensive here.

If you don't like it or you can't make any explanation. You could drop it and say nothing instead of making it worse. What's so hard about it.

 

[diarm]

Sorry I didn't realise it was the thread you created your highness. I'm happy to leave you to it.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Sorry I didn't realise it was the thread you created your highness. I'm happy to leave you to it.

This forum exists for discussion, nothing wrong with my question on your opinion. If you don't want to answer and keep on the topic then you don't need to start to argue and being sarcastic.
Your attitude is only creating fire here.

 

[hmchan]

It's biased because you called Jones is more honest and works harder with nothing to back it up. Anyone can make random statement "based on what I watch", because from what I watched, Smalling is better. May be you could give some examples to back it up.

If I haven't got it wrong, his interpretation of "honest and hard working" refers to Jones' attitude on the pitch, the way he throws himself to tackles and puts his face in front of the opponents' boots. Imo, however, it's his terrible defensive awareness, starting and body position which put him in such an awkward situation that he needs such desperate moves to rescue himself. People also easily forget his silly mistakes and only sympathize his injury records.

For me Smalling is the better defender all day long. He is quick on his feet, good in the air, consistent and not injury prone. He is comfortable in dealing with a target man or a pacy striker, and he has kept many top forwards in his pocket such as Kane and Suarez. It's incredible so many don't rate him even he's won the Players' Player of the Year. The obsession in playing out from the back has to stop.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

If I haven't got it wrong, his interpretation of "honest and hard working" refers to Jones' attitude on the pitch, the way he throws himself to tackles and puts his face in front of the opponents' boots. Imo, however, it's his terrible defensive awareness, starting and body position which put him in such an awkward situation that he needs such desperate moves to rescue himself. People also easily forget his silly mistakes and only sympathize his injury records.

For me Smalling is the better defender all day long. He is quick on his feet, good in the air, consistent and not injury prone. He is comfortable in dealing with a target man or a pacy striker, and he has kept many top forwards in his pocket such as Kane and Suarez. It's incredible so many don't rate him even he's won the Players' Player of the Year. The obsession in playing out from the back has to stop.

I asked him and he decided to argue with me instead. But look at you, I love how with just one post only you basically answered it.

I also agree with you it's terrible defense. However, it's someone else preference, some people prefer something like that.

 

[norm87cro]

Its Brown and its not even close. Unlike the others he could also play RB and has a CL final assist to his name.

 

[hmchan]

Its Brown and its not even close. Unlike the others he could also play RB and has a CL final assist to his name.

Smalling and Jones played at RB for us. Evans played at LB for West Brom. All of them could play as a full back.

 

[Oldyella]

Smalling and Jones played at RB for us. Evans played at LB for West Brom. All of them could play as a full back.

I think playing Smalling at right back was the start of his problems tbh. Prior to that he had looked comfortable enough on the ball, no world beater, but most were comparing him to Rio, Maldini etc. Putting him on the right gave him more time on the ball and he never looked as comfortable again.

I understand why Fergie did it, trying to give playing time to a younger player, but not everyone is adaptable and can play multiple positions.

 

[POF]

I think playing Smalling at right back was the start of his problems tbh. Prior to that he had looked comfortable enough on the ball, no world beater, but most were comparing him to Rio, Maldini etc. Putting him on the right gave him more time on the ball and he never looked as comfortable again.

I understand why Fergie did it, trying to give playing time to a younger player, but not everyone is adaptable and can play multiple positions.

I don't think it was a problem at all for Smalling. He was actually better than I thought he'd be on the ball at right back. It simplified his game really. Just bomb up and down the line.

At centre back, he just seems really uncertain and nervous on the ball as he has more time and decisions to make. He's always struck me as a nervous character lacking in confidence. When he is aggressive and decisive, he's a top quality defender.

 

[norm87cro]

Smalling and Jones played at RB for us. Evans played at LB for West Brom. All of them could play as a full back.

Well honestly I thought he was far better in the back position than all of them. I should have mentioned that

 

[MelvinYeo]

Thread drift but anyone else finds it bizarre that Brown was frozen out after such a successful season in 07/08? He barely played for us again, even with the emergence of Rafael he wasn't even in the squad most of the time.

 

[Al-T]

For me, Brown is head and shoulders above the other three. He also had the speed of turn ,versatility and ability to play at right back.

Of the rest, Smalling is the best pure defender. He's not that great on the ball, and was a liability at full back but he's a beast in the middle.

Evans' stock has risen since he left United.

Jones is a beyond parody.

 

[Borussia Teeth]

Brown all day. He took Blanc's spot at CB during the 02-03 season when regained the title from Arsenal and he was the starting right back for the double winning 07-08 season.

As for the other 3; Smalling and Evans are on a level and Jones has turned out to be worst, despite having the most potential.

 

[Isotope]

Brown all day. He took Blanc's spot at CB during the 02-03 season when regained the title from Arsenal and he was the starting right back for the double winning 07-08 season.

As for the other 3; Smalling and Evans are on a level and Jones has turned out to be worst, despite having the most potential.

THe question is about being a CB. Rio and Silvestre were the first choice CB on 02/03 season. Brown had never been consistent enough as first choice CB in his 15 years with United. Not even good enough to compete fecking Silvestre.

 

[Denis' cuff]

Should be Wes for no.1 but he went to sleep too often. A beast who rarely switched on. Quick, strong but thought about PlayStation more than being a cb for 90 minutes

mike, no.2 despite shirt pulling obsession and possession paranoia

Evans, decent at West Brom

Jones, I try not to think about

 

[stevoc]

Brown all day. He took Blanc's spot at CB during the 02-03 season when regained the title from Arsenal and he was the starting right back for the double winning 07-08 season.

As for the other 3; Smalling and Evans are on a level and Jones has turned out to be worst, despite having the most potential.

For most of that season and certainly the run-in it was Rio and Silvestre at CB. Brown played of course but not as much as the other two.

 

[MattofManchester]

I'm probably gonna get slammed for this, but I'd decide on their quality based on what they did outside of United as well. How they've done once they left United etc. Also, this excludes their alternative roles in other positions and looks at them from their primary role at CB.

In terms of other clubs:

1. Smalling. Has been very successful at Roma. And was the best of a terrible bunch at United. Was part of the season we finished second, and didn't have any mishaps. Terrible on the ball(however, I feel this is a confidence thing), but a very good out and out defender. However, shat himself every time we played against Man City. Ranked him above Brown because he's held a first team role for so long, even if it is in an average squad. He's been a consistent member of the teams we've had.

2. Wes Brown. Integral in the Champions League winning squad. However, a bit like Bailly as he would have many, many brain farts and never found consistency outside of that season, hence why I placed him second. Career tailed off massively after leaving Man United. Ferguson's belief in him was probably the reason he remained at United for longer than he probably should have at the time. Just never reached a level consistently that he should have.

3. Evans.Had some excellent moments, but more very bad moments. Always very mistake prone, but seems to have reinvented himself since moving to Leicester, and actually looks like an excellent defender these days. Like Smalling, seemed to have something of a confidence issue at United.

4. Jones. Would have been first if this was best memes list. But last since this is about football instead.

 

[thepolice123]

THe question is about being a CB. Rio and Silvestre were the first choice CB on 02/03 season. Brown had never been consistent enough as first choice CB in his 15 years with United. Not even good enough to compete fecking Silvestre.

Feels like most people here are just basing their opinion on that Fergie quote about Brown and his 07/08 performances at rightback. He was almost Rojo level calamity when he played in the early 00s.

Here's what the caf thought about him in 2005.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/silvestre-or-brown.70386/

 

[Isotope]

Feels like most people here are just basing their opinion on that Fergie quote about Brown and his 07/08 performances at rightback. He was almost Rojo level calamity when he played in the early 00s.

Here's what the caf thought about him in 2005.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/silvestre-or-brown.70386/

Yeh. I'm just guessing Brown is coming back at some sort of a role at United, make people see him as better than he actually is.