Everton deducted 10 points for PSR breach (reduced to 6) | Deducted further 2 points for second breach

SilentWitness

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Wait, wait; they admitted that they did it? Oh boy....what a bad move.
@SilentWitness . Am i reading that right? You did admit it (instead doing City and stalling)?
I assumed we thought we were doing the right thing (by owning up) and due to previous punishments handed out, believed we would only get a fine rather than points deductions.
 

matt10000

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Well the powers that be have set a precedent now, 10 point deduction per FFP breach.
So presumably City are now inline for a potential points deduction of 1,150 points... :lol:
Should simply make these clubs start again in North West Counties or equivalent wherever they are based
 

Stack

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Is there any explanation why City havent been hit with this sort of fine?
I dont mean any conspiracy theory but any sort of explanation from the EPL?
 
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For anybody wondering why it's ten points,

It was related specifically to the amount of losses over the £105 million threshold. Any amount over at all is an automatic 6 points, and then every £5 million chunk of the overage amount garners one more additional point.

They didn't arbitrarily decide on 10 points from scratch, then. It was based on a standard calculation. £19.7 million / £5m = 4 points + 6 automatic points = 10 point deduction.
https://x.com/martynziegler/status/1725492591674663165?s=20
 

Alex99

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Is there any explanation why City havent been hit with this sort of fine?
I dont mean any conspiracy theory but any sort of explanation from the EPL?
Everton admitted their wrongdoing and only had one charge, so it was a very straightforward process.

City have denied their wrongdoing, have 115 charges (up to 2018, after which they stopped cooperating), and the process is still ongoing.

City haven't been let off (yet). They're still technically under investigation.
 

Andycoleno9

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Is there any explanation why City havent been hit with this sort of fine?
I dont mean any conspiracy theory but any sort of explanation from the EPL?
Last year, when FA charged them some journos said that process will last 2 years at least. I thought it is BS back then but it seems to be true.
 

Andycoleno9

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Well the powers that be have set a precedent now, 10 point deduction per FFP breach.
So presumably City are now inline for a potential points deduction of 1,150 points... :lol:
Fun part; 1150 points is the same as 100 points. You get them at once and they stand only for thst season and that division.
So City gets 1150 point at one moment of the season, they finish that season as 20th team, get relegated and start next season in championship.

Good thing is that FA can be creative about fines. -100 in that season and that they start with -100 in next season (in Championship). :drool:
 

Alex99

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Fun part; 1150 points is the same as 100 points. You get them at once and they stand only for thst season and that division.
So City gets 1150 point at one moment of the season, they finish that season as 20th team, get relegated and start next season in championship.

Good thing is that FA can be creative about fines. -100 in that season and that they start with -100 in next season (in Championship). :drool:
Are the Premier League not the ones investigating City, rather than the FA?

At most, they can expel them from the Premier League, but it's up to the EFL what happens then.
 

The Purley King

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Are the Premier League not the ones investigating City, rather than the FA?

At most, they can expel them from the Premier League, but it's up to the EFL what happens then.
That is my understanding.
They are not welcome to participate for x years in the PL.
over to you football league
 

roseguy64

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Why? It was already proven by UEFA but technically time barred. They could only punish them for frustrating the investigation through noncompliance which was reduced by CAS.

There is no time barring and no CAS route of appeal from the PL case. City are getting expelled and banned from PL as a minimum. It's just a question of whether the FL accept them and at which level.
I can see City being punished but I doubt they'll be expelled. Most I can see is stripped titles, fines and a points deduction. No ban.
 

Andycoleno9

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Are the Premier League not the ones investigating City, rather than the FA?

At most, they can expel them from the Premier League, but it's up to the EFL what happens then.
Really? My bad. Tbh, i thought that FA is in charge of everything regarding football. I didn't know that PL is different body.

Plonker, what can i say.
 

Alex99

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Really? My bad. Tbh, i thought that FA is in charge of everything regarding football. I didn't know that PL is different body.

Plonker, what can i say.
It's a bit mental, but yeah. The FA are the national football association, but there are a load of localised ones too.

The Premier League is a separate body that only relates to its namesake. The EFL look after Championship to League Two (maybe the EFL Cup and Trophy, but I'm not sure), and the National League looks after tiers 5 and 6. After that it's a bunch of increasingly regionalised bodies.
 

Andycoleno9

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It's a bit mental, but yeah. The FA are the national football association, but there are a load of localised ones too.

The Premier League is a separate body that only relates to its namesake. The EFL look after Championship to League Two (maybe the EFL Cup and Trophy, but I'm not sure), and the National League looks after tiers 5 and 6. After that it's a bunch of increasingly regionalised bodies.
Wow, i am completely shocked now. So, what does FA do? Don't they give punishment to players after red cards and other shit? Who "owns" refs? Fa or PL?

So confused now.
 

Alex99

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Wow, i am completely shocked now. So, what does FA do? Don't they give punishment to players after red cards and other shit? Who "owns" refs? Fa or PL?

So confused now.
PGMOL are technically in charge of match officials.

The FA are basically the umbrella that dictate the rules and structure.
 

matherto

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But who are city. Everton are a bigger club than city. City were a league 2 bumbling mess who only got lucky because they had Manchester in their club name. Without the cheating they wouldn’t be winning that treble
Historically yeah but right now City are one of the biggest clubs in the world commercially as well as prestige wise so there's no way in hell they're getting anything thrown at them.

Everton are that other team from Liverpool that you only hear about when Liverpool inevitably beat them in the derby by comparison.
 

Forest Red

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I assumed we thought we were doing the right thing (by owning up) and due to previous punishments handed out, believed we would only get a fine rather than points deductions.
As long as what happens to other clubs is proportionate to Everton’s punishment then it’s ok. The FA need to be transparent and be able to justify how any decisions were arrived at going forward.
 

Zlatan 7

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Historically yeah but right now City are one of the biggest clubs in the world commercially as well as prestige wise so there's no way in hell they're getting anything thrown at them.

Everton are that other team from Liverpool that you only hear about when Liverpool inevitably beat them in the derby by comparison.
One of the biggest clubs in the world commercially? Do you mean sponsors? I bet most countries still think they’re Man Utd.

I’d honestly like to know what they’re thought of around the world because I really think you’re exaggerating
 

padr81

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Begs the question, why have we been made an example of and not others?
Because it was the easiest case to solve in a short time I'd say, make no mistake the sudden clamping down by the PL and harsh punishments is the PL purely setting precedent for City getting expelled.
 

SilentWitness

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As long as what happens to other clubs is proportionate to Everton’s punishment then it’s ok. The FA need to be transparent and be able to justify how any decisions were arrived at going forward.
Because it was the easiest case to solve in a short time I'd say, make no mistake the sudden clamping down by the PL and harsh punishments is the PL purely setting precedent for City getting expelled.
I'm worried due to it being an independent commission and that each decision will be by different independent commissions...

Also the wording in the commission report worries me. Someone posted back a few pages ago the formula that got them to the 10 point deduction that was a formula the PL recommended. The independent commission though refused that it would take it on board and use it as a formula going forward so that kind of gives them a get out clause to not then have to give the next team a 10 point deduction (or more).
 

padr81

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I'm worried due to it being an independent commission and that each decision will be by different independent commissions...

Also the wording in the commission report worries me. Someone posted back a few pages ago the formula that got them to the 10 point deduction that was a formula the PL recommended. The independent commission though refused that it would take it on board and use it as a formula going forward so that kind of gives them a get out clause to not then have to give the next team a 10 point deduction (or more).
It does but I think they have been slowly getting stricter on this. I think if City go down on the big charges it'll be straight-up expulsion now. You see you guys getting hit hard, United self-reporting and getting a fine, There's precedent now for the commissions to be like "If Everton got 10 pts for x, we can't put a number on City and y so expulsion from the PL etc..." I'll be shocked if City walk away from their charges still in the top division unless they somehow win and are successful vs all the big ones.
No one really knows the ins and outs of the Chelsea stuff yet I think so no idea how long/hard they're gonna get hit.

I think you guys will still be fine, you look a decent side under Dyche and will comfortably stay up but it does derail what could been a potentially solid season for the first time in awhile.
 

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It does but I think they have been slowly getting stricter on this. I think if City go down on the big charges it'll be straight-up expulsion now. You see you guys getting hit hard, United self-reporting and getting a fine, There's precedent now for the commissions to be like "If Everton got 10 pts for x, we can't put a number on City and y so expulsion from the PL etc..." I'll be shocked if City walk away from their charges still in the top division unless they somehow win and are successful vs all the big ones.
No one really knows the ins and outs of the Chelsea stuff yet I think so no idea how long/hard they're gonna get hit.

I think you guys will still be fine, you look a decent side under Dyche and will comfortably stay up but it does derail what could been a potentially solid season for the first time in awhile.
I wonder how Everton fans feel about this? In effect Dyche has got a hall pass for this season. Everton will stay up but how does an extra 12 months of Dyche ball sit?
 

adexkola

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One of the biggest clubs in the world commercially? Do you mean sponsors? I bet most countries still think they’re Man Utd.

I’d honestly like to know what they’re thought of around the world because I really think you’re exaggerating
They have won the top trophy in European football, and regularly feature in the latter stages. On the last day of the most watched league in the world, they have taken the title 5 times in the last 6 years. In what world wouldn't they be one of the biggest clubs commercially?

The question is how did they get to this point? (Artificial money, we know) but they can stand on their own now.

City are doing well.
I think the PL are in over their heads trying to prove the case.

When the feds suspect you're guilty, they take their time building the case, so that as soon as you're indicted, even your lawyers advise you to plead guilty and take the deal on the table. Because going to court would simply be a waste of time, no matter how expensive your lawyer was.

My personal opinion is that the PL got pressured by threats of an independent observer, along with bitching behind the scenes from other big clubs, and they are now going, "how do we prove this to an independent board?"
 

padr81

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I wonder how Everton fans feel about this? In effect Dyche has got a hall pass for this season. Everton will stay up but how does an extra 12 months of Dyche ball sit?
Have to ask Silent Witness but the vibe I get from the few I talk to about footy is they're happy enough with him, he's kinda steadied the ship after some dices with the drop but its the first time since Carlo they look remotely solid. Aided of course by how poor the bottom 3 are but they look like they had enough about them to avoid a dog fight. Performances have been better than pts to and they're well up on the table on performance metrics I think.
 

FootballHQ

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I'm not sure what people think lawyers are, they're not magicians that can make rock solid evidence go away. There are rules that lawyers have to abide to as well.

If City's case does get thrown out it's not because their lawyers blocked justice from being served, it's because the case was shit enough that an expert lawyer was able to poke holes in it.
They did get Man. City off that CL ban which was bestowed on them in early 2020 IIRC. I assume Uefa got a bit carried away and there were holes in that conviction once it was forensically reviewed?
 

SilentWitness

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I wonder how Everton fans feel about this? In effect Dyche has got a hall pass for this season. Everton will stay up but how does an extra 12 months of Dyche ball sit?
Completely fine. We need someone to stabilise us and he's shown he's capable of doing that.
 

adexkola

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They did get Man. City off that CL ban which was bestowed on them in early 2020 IIRC. I assume Uefa got a bit carried away and there were holes in that conviction once it was forensically reviewed?
CAS ruled that the charges could be divided into 2: time-barred or not applicable to City. That was definitely sheer incompetence from UEFA.

And that's why you get great lawyers! Otherwise you go down for some shit you shouldn't go down for.
 

FootballHQ

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Good year to take the penalty. Sheffield, Burnley and Luton are pretty awful compared to the more established Prem teams. Bournemouth could go either way too. Everton are not even bottom of the table with the penalty, just keep playing like they have been and they'll be well clear of relegation at the end of the season.
Will they? People say this but to comfortably survive relegation they need about 48-50 points imo e.g. so they don't go into last two games in serious danger where anything can happen.

They've done well away from home recently but have loads of tough away matches from xmas. They also win very few matches at Goodison under Dyche although would imagine this will have a big galvanising effect on them, Goodison will be a bearpit for the Man. United game especially given the late Sunday kick off time so good luck with that!

I think if they'd be no deduction they'd have finished on 42-43 points. No way can anyone say a side will comfortably survive on 33 points this season as eventually a bottom 3 team will pick up form, Sheffield United just taken 4 points off Wolves-Brighton so there's potential for them to improve straight away.
 

FootballHQ

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CAS ruled that the charges could be divided into 2: time-barred or not applicable to City. That was definitely sheer incompetence from UEFA.

And that's why you get great lawyers! Otherwise you go down for some shit you shouldn't go down for.
Ah it went to CAS did it, Man. City will certainly go down that avenue again whenever their FFP punishment is decided.

Is CAS a realistic available option to Everton for this punishment?
 

Bluelion7

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Hold on, they went only £19M over the top and are docked 10 points.

How many points deduction for City's dodgy billions then?
So , legitimate question: if I was reading the case correctly, that small overage occurred primarily because the PL counted maintenance costs on a stadium renovation debt toward their FFP balance?

Is that correct?

I was not under the impression infrastructure money was supposed to be counted in that equation. Is it only counted if you don’t have separate funds for things like facilities, etc? Because then it would really exist just to prevent bankruptcies, and it would t reign in money affecting competition at all, would it?
 

TwoSheds

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Will they? People say this but to comfortably survive relegation they need about 48-50 points imo e.g. so they don't go into last two games in serious danger where anything can happen.

They've done well away from home recently but have loads of tough away matches from xmas. They also win very few matches at Goodison under Dyche although would imagine this will have a big galvanising effect on them, Goodison will be a bearpit for the Man. United game especially given the late Sunday kick off time so good luck with that!

I think if they'd be no deduction they'd have finished on 42-43 points. No way can anyone say a side will comfortably survive on 33 points this season as eventually a bottom 3 team will pick up form, Sheffield United just taken 4 points off Wolves-Brighton so there's potential for them to improve straight away.
48-50? Are you having a laugh?
1/3 of the way through the season (nearly) and the bottom 3 teams (excluding Everton) have 15 points between them. 48-50 points would be more than those 3 teams combined at the current rate :lol:
 

SilentWitness

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48-50? Are you having a laugh?
1/3 of the way through the season (nearly) and the bottom 3 teams (excluding Everton) have 15 points between them. 48-50 points would be more than those 3 teams combined at the current rate :lol:
Yeah, 48-50 is very high for any year, you're looking more around 40. This season though you could be comfortable with 35-40.