Fantasy draft, SF2, Aldo Vs Annah

[Chesterlestreet]

Aldo:

The formation has been changed to a 4-3-3 false 9 system.

The defense continues from where it left off with the back four intact as they were, further being drilled on their flexible shape that worked really well. Koeman is the ball playing center back who will lead and organize the defense and let it revolve around him. Montero being the no nonsense stopper applying his physicality to full effect. Bossis and Irwin are the fullbacks, both excellent on the ball and as reliable defensively as they come. It's a highly competent defensive unit led by a multiple European Cup and La Liga winning stalwart in Koeman. Both fullbacks possess excellent tactical awareness and intelligence to make right judgement calls at crucial moments, something that is required where you are a part of a unit and need to stay together. Irwin will provide the width down the left flank often, while Bossis tucks in making it a back 3 with Montero well versed at playing as a left CB and Koeman reigning from the middle.

The midfield sees the return of Pep Guardiola, resuming his golden partnership with Koeman from the days of the Dream Team. Before we go any further, I'd like to clear any misconceptions about Pep defensively, while his strengths lied in being a playmaker and ability on the ball he was nowhere near a liability in defense, just that giving him a huge burden of the defensive duties could hamper his freedom going forward, but when behind the ball he's gonna put a shift that won't go waste. And to give him that freedom, he's flanked by two ruthless combative midfielders in Simeone and Essien. Simeone enters the team to provide incredible steel and bite in midfield, some much needed cuntishness and a tough as nails character who doesn't take a defeat easily. On the other side, Essien while not as fiery as a character was, as he was affectionately called, a bison. Within these two there's a balance of energy, workrate, leadership, tenacity and none of them are any mugs with the ball at feet.

The newest addition in attack is Zibi Boniek, the flying Polish superstar reunited with his partner in crime in Platini. Together these two made one of the best partnerships of the 80s and dominated the league and Europe for a good amount of years. In Boniek, you have a wild card, given how much he can provide to the team in both phases of the play. On the other flank is Cristiano Ronaldo, making it an absolutely lightening quick attack.

Platini as the false 9, as the role suggests, he has the duty of creating and scoring, and not many names to have played the game could have suited that role better. A tremendous hard worker himself, with the freedom to dictate the proceedings, he will be using his world class creativity, vision, dribbling and the knack of scoring at the biggest of stages. To go with all that, he was a great leader and mentally strong and given a setup in which he will flourish, he would lift his teammates and provide the cohesion that makes the unit punch above their weight.

The wide forwards. No gifs needed this time to elaborate on their interchange, as it's not as complicated. Both are well capable of hitting either flank equally hard, so man marking them is out of the question. Both possess electric pace and known to disrupt the opposition defense with their constant movement. Now to discuss where their roles differ, Boniek is the free roaming winger, so to speak who will regularly occupy either flank, stretch the defense while Cristiano would be the one making darting runs towards goal and exploiting the space created by the constant disruption from Boniek and the control of the game shown by Platini. It is no myth that Boniek was capable of making his teammate the top scorer in the league with his final ball and end product and with two devastating predators present in the team, that is what he will do. The chemistry between him and Platini would be vital, and that is exactly where the core of the false 9 role lies. Both of them often found each other, getting on the end of each other's passes and that was because of the fact that both could hurt the opposition equally be it while giving the supply or being at the end of it. That twin motion from that duo something that was highly valuable to that Juve team would be deadly over here and cause a constant threat.

A wise man (Balu) once said, that the way to curb Cristiano Ronaldo is to cut off his supply. That is just not going to happen here. How many players will you stop? The attacks start right at the heart of defense with Koeman, possibly one of the best in the history of the game in playmaking from defense, who will be constantly trying to catch the opposition on quick breaks. The two fullbacks, two highly skilled ball players, with two wide men lurking up the pitch, a sweet early diagonal is always on the cards. If that's not working, we have Pep Guardiola, who mastered in threading the eye of the needle with his inch perfect, perfectly weighed and placed through ball from any range, and with the blistering pace up front waiting latch on to it, one error or a slight delay from a defender and it would be punished. That's not enough? In that case the man who assisted the top scorer in Serie A for a few years running can bring his creative skills into effect in Boniek. And if all that, all that, fails, we look at the man called Michel Platini. This list is certainly not in the order of who will take the responsibility the most, of course Platini will get most the ball and dictate the proceeding, but it shows, how many options there are available all over the pitch for the rest to pick out. Add the constant interchange and movement up front, it's pretty difficult for any defensive unit to stop.

So basically as before, we have given all players the roles which they relish, constructed a balance of players who want to lead and players who want to follow and put out a team that on it's day, can provide some of the most beautiful football you would see.

Team Aldo

Vs.

Team Annah

Offense: 4-2-3-1, Direct attacks orchestrated by Maradona
Defense: 4-4-1-1, Low line, 10 outfield players who work hard defensively​

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Annah:

Tactics
Defenders
Thanks to the acquisition of Baresi, one of the two greatest central defenders, with Beckenbauer - the team is now built on a rock solid defensive core. Vierchowod is the perfect stopper for my set up, so comfortable as a sweeper that he was often compared to Baresi himself. Lineker considered him the hardest defender he ever faced and further said "he was absolutely brutal and lightning quick. He gave me one or two digs."

Maradona himself had this to say about the man the myth says never got outrun in a competition match;
"[Vierchowod] was an animal, he had muscles to the eyelashes. It was easy to pass by him, but then when I raised my head, he was in front of me again. I would have to pass him two or three more times and then I would pass the ball because I couldn't stand him anymore"

1983, the same year Platini won the Ballon, Vierchowod was ahead of Platini and Falcao awarded the Guerin d'Oro which is given to the player with the highest average rating counting all league matches of the season.

They played together at times for the Italian national team and proved to be a complementary partnership. These centre-backs are perfect against a passer like Platini as they are two of the true masters of CB's who intercepts through-balls and instantly punishes the opponent by stepping up and finding a counter-attack against a completely chaotic defense. In the air they are both brilliant and capable of handling a low defense against Cristiano and Boniek.

I have two of the most complete full-backs in history in Zanetti and Brehme, both capable of providing width like a winger if assigned to and they have a rock solid defense to boost. They will be defending and attacking with their winger which will assure that I win the wide battle on both sides.

Defensively Cristiano doesn't have what it takes to do a job on Zanetti who will double up with Conti out wide against Irwin regularly which is too much for him to handle.

My entire defensive line possess absolute world-class passing for defenders and in my build will find its way to the offensive players, especially Maradona on a regular basis.

Midfielders
Out wide right I have the hard-working and incredibly fast dribbling magician Bruno Conti and out left I have another hard-working winger in Luis Enrique who with the support of Brehme will form an outstanding offense and defense.

Centrally I have Deschamps and Effenberg, a combination of intelligence, good passing and hard work in Deschamps case and absolute madness/genius in Effenberg's case. Effenberg and Deschamps will make life difficult for the opponents centrally by falling low, fight their hearts out and by shrinking the space Platini has to work with.

In front of them I have Maradona who also worked hard defensively who will be the orchestrator of this game. Wherever the ball is in the offense Maradona will be looking to get involved with the play, either by making runs or by acting the play maker. This means Effenberg at times will have the space available to push forward if he sees an opportunity to push in to.

The team is built around Maradona and the runs of Conti, Klinsmann and Enrique will lead to goals against Aldo's weakness, his defense.

How I will beat Aldo

I will attack through counters/direct attacks and knowing my opponents main threats all rely on counter-attacks themselves I will leave Baresi, Vierchowod and one of the full-backs in behind at all times. Deschamps will remain on the defensively right side of the great Platini which will be doable as his speed and acceleration was two of his weaker attributes.

This means that Koemans brilliant range of passing will be neutralized as he can't find the space needed for his incredible long-balls when my defense is falling deep. It also means that Cristiano will have an incredibly hard time finding space - and his dribbling qualities aren't best used in tight areas. Aldo's defense which is his clear weakness will then be forced to be ball-players, which means they will have to push up their defensive line and team and leave themselves open for counters on the return.

The same goes for Boniek who loved to find space behind the defense, which will be difficult with the low defense.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Good luck, gents.

@Aldo
@Annahnomoss

 

[Annahnomoss]

Gianfranco Zola - Who’s the toughest defender you’ve played against?
It’s a 50-50 between Franco Baresi and Pietro Vierchowod. After a game against both, your feet need loads of ice and anti-inflammatories.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Disappointed Aldo didn't include a .gif - surely that has to count against him here.

 

[crappycraperson]

Disappointed Aldo didn't include a .gif - surely that has to count against him here.

yeap.. :thumbsdown:

 

[antohan]

Wowza! This is an absolute cracker! I love how this TP business makes for better thoguht-through teams, systems and right men for the role instead of All-Star caricatures of a football team.

Gotta go now but will revisit later.

 

[Balu]

Disappointed Aldo didn't include a .gif - surely that has to count against him here.

To be fair to him, a gif with Boniek in it is really difficult to pull off.

 

[antohan]

Off the top of my head as I look through it, I would have started Lucho in midfield with Deschamps deep to keep tabs on Platini when dropping. I can't see both fullbacks bombing forward but instead Conti alternating wings and the fullbacks alternating accordingly (i.e. the opposite way around). It's not a minor point as it allows both Effenberg and Lucho to be more involved in both attacking and defensive phases.

 

[crappycraperson]

That front 3 of Aldo catches you eyes immediately.. not sure why Annah has gone 4231 suddenly.. Odd. He still looks better though since his defense is significantly better than Aldo IMO.

 

[antohan]

To be fair to him, a gif with Boniek in it is really difficult to pull off.

I'll have a stab later but this is my blueprint so far

Spoiler

 

[Annahnomoss]

That front 3 of Aldo catches you eyes immediately.. not sure why Annah has gone 4231 suddenly.. Odd. He still looks better though since his defense is significantly better than Aldo IMO.

It is a 4-4-1-1 in the defensive phase. The reason is that having a 5 man defensive line here is a bit overkill, I already have four of the very finest options available in the defensive line. They can handle a regular defensive job at the highest level with no issues. I'd say Aldo needs that extra defender much more than me. Considering his defensive line is of substantially worse level than mine.

By replacing Sammer I have gained width with Conti and Enrique who are supported by Brehme and Zanetti - a job Bossis and Irwin won't manage to handle in my eyes. I think Bossis/Irwin without an awful a lot of help will be over their heads up against not just Brehme and Zanetti but wingers as well.

Zanetti and Brehme would win that fight alone against them, with the wingers there to further that threat it is a clear route to goal I believe. With Maradona also pushing out towards the ball to be involved, it is a nightmare to deal with there.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Off the top of my head as I look through it, I would have started Lucho in midfield with Deschamps deep to keep tabs on Platini when dropping. I can't see both fullbacks bombing forward but instead Conti alternating wings and the fullbacks alternating accordingly (i.e. the opposite way around). It's not a minor point as it allows both Effenberg and Lucho to be more involved in both attacking and defensive phases.

The idea behind the system is taking full advantage of Aldo's defenders which are a notch or two behind the rest of the teams, mine in included, at this stage of the draft. If Ronaldo and/or Boniek are told to be a counter-threat, it will be an impossible task for his full-back on that side who will be up against not just Zanetti or Brehme who alone would dominate their wings - but Conti and Enrique as well as Maradona being involved.

If he instead chooses to play Cristiano further down, he is first of all not defensively good, and he won't be able to counter-attack effectively at all.

Either way he chooses to use his wide men, it will hamper him as my wingers means that he also needs to defend 2 vs 2 with his wingers deep down their own pitch. Most likely he will want Ronaldo to look for counters with Boniek actually defending, which opens up a very repetitive way to cut through my opponents defense down his left flank.

Conti, Zanetti and Maradona all linking up to beat Irwin on that left flank and even if Simeone is involved it is a number too large. Essien and Guardiola aren't optimal here for managing Maradona centrally either, so the most likely way it ends up is Enrique and Zanetti linking up and unsettling the defense enough to find Maradona further inside - outside the box - in which case Montero and Koeman are likely to go on a roller coaster ride.

I would have all my four defenders above his, I think Deschamps is the best defensive midfielder, Effenberg the best CM and offensively I can still compete with him with Maradona-Conti-Enrique-Klinsmann VS Platini-Boniek-Cristiano

His front trio is brilliant, but they are up against a much, much tougher defense and midfield here than what my front four are up against and my front four will have a completely superior foundation with Brehme and Zanetti out wide, the interceptions and instant counters from Vierchowod/Baresi which alone can lead to a goal or two with Koeman/Guardiola trying to ping-pong passes across the pitch.

 

[Theon]

If Ronaldo and/or Boniek are told to be a counter-threat, it will be an impossible task for his full-back on that side who will be up against not just Zanetti or Brehme who alone would dominate their wings - but Conti and Enrique as well as Maradona being involved..... Conti, Zanetti and Maradona all linking up to beat Irwin on that left flank

That seems like a terrible tactic - can definitely see Ronaldo and Boniek bagging a couple of goals there.

Zanetti getting forward to attack Irwin isn't really a threat in the same league as leaving an unmarked Ronaldo on the other end of the pitch. Those threats are incomparable - Aldo is far more dangerous there.

Aldo's distribution from deep is absolutely key here - Koeman and Guardiola can use their pinpoint long range passing to exploit the space that Ronaldo and Boniek have.

I can definitely see a couple of goals there for Aldo and that isn't taking into account the threat of Platini!

 

[Annahnomoss]

That seems like a terrible tactic - can definitely see Ronaldo and Boniek bagging a couple of goals there.

Zanetti getting forward to attack Irwin isn't really a threat in the same league as leaving an unmarked Ronaldo on the other end of the pitch. Those threats are incomparable - Aldo is far more dangerous there.

Aldo's distribution from deep is absolutely key here - Koeman and Guardiola can use their pinpoint long range passing to exploit the space that Ronaldo and Boniek have.

I can definitely see a couple of goals there for Aldo and that isn't taking into account the threat of Platini!

Read my OP! It addresses all this. One full-back attacks while the other stays back - classic modern football tactics which nearly every side uses in the world if they use a 4 man line. So Ronaldo won't be unmarked, he will be up against the best central defender in the draft and one of the two best in history - something he never faced before - Baresi - with the help of Vierchowod and Brehme.

Deschamps will be staying on the right side of Platini as well, and Klinsmann will be having the job to terrorize Guardiola as soon as I lose possession until I regain it. I will drop deep and play a low defensive line here with no space for Boniek and Cristiano behind my defenders.

His clear main route to a goal is through counters, so that is what my tactics are adjusted to prioritize defensively.

 

[Theon]

That doesn't seem to be what you are doing though..? You've said that Zanetti will be pushing up and committing his fullbacks to a 2 vs 1 situiation, so I don't see how you are playing a deep line there.

It takes time to get back into position and in that time Koeman or Guardiola will exploit it - I think that is a fact. Those two are just too good of a pair of passers not to find Ronaldo when he is in space.

 

[Annahnomoss]

That doesn't seem to be what you are doing though..? You've said that Zanetti will be pushing up and committing his fullbacks to a 2 vs 1 situiation, so I don't see how you are playing a deep line there.

It takes time to get back into position and in that time Koeman or Guardiola will exploit it - I think that is a fact. Those two are just too good of a pair of passers not to find Ronaldo when he is in space.

A deep line has never in the history meant four defenders all staying back all game mate. Even the Catenaccio had as many defenders staying back(3) and one moving forward(often the LB). In modern football the full-back providing width depends on which side you are attacking on. If you attack on the left, Evra(Brehme) provides the width while Zanetti stays back and if the ball is on the right Neville(Zanetti) pushes forward with Brehme staying back.

Having Brehme and Zanetti pushing forward constantly - at the same time - is absolutely ridiculous and I would concede 10-15 goals that way. It isn't a realistic tactic by any means, in any situation. I am playing two regular full-backs here, the one who is on the side of the ball pushes forward to provide width - the other stays back.

Baresi will be the one moving to the right if Zanetti pushes up with Brehme closing in centrally next to Vierchowod - a whole army to beat even if the pass from Koeman would land at Ronaldo's feet, and on the other side Vierchowod would move out left with Zanetti tucking in.

 

[Theon]

Also another thing which crops up all the time in drafts is these daft comparisons which compare players as if they were marks out of 10 or something - Player X is a 9/10 player but he is up against a 10/10 so he will struggle. It is never like that really.

So linked to that - What is Baresi going to do with Ronaldo in your mind? The danger that Ronaldo poses is really his combination of physicality, movement and ruthless finishing - in a lot of situations I don't see what Baresi can do to prevent him scoring here. If he gets played over the top by Koeman or Guardiola then - if the pass is good enough - he will reach the ball first ahead of Baresi and in a 1 vs 1 he'll most likely score.

If Platini gets on the ball then he'll slip passes through to him and in those situations there really isn't a great deal Baresi can do - sometimes the pass is just too good and with the players that Aldo has I see that cropping up a lot. The service to Ronaldo here really is perfect.

 

[Theon]

A deep line has never in the history meant four defenders all staying back all game mate.

I never said that, to be fair. It just seemed in your comments that you were overloading Aldo's back line and pinning him back, so I am surprised that you are so deep. Maybe it was the language you used.

I think it's clear that Aldo will be playing on the counter and I see the game panning out with your attackers pushing further up the pitch.

No matter what you do I certainly don't see you limiting the threat of his counters - unless you are not going to attack at all. You can't attack whilst simultaneously have a defensive line camped on the area... then the midfield would be completely vacated. No one does that. Even counter attacking sides have to push up when they attack, you can't have huge gaps in between the lines.

That would be the worst tactic imaginable and Platini would finish you off in half an hour.

The defensive line is far more relevant when out of possession, I can see you sitting deep around the area then - it's quite normal. However when you attack and possession gets turned over, the counter is quite clearly on for Aldo.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Also another thing which crops up all the time in drafts is these daft comparisons which compare players as if they were marks out of 10 or something - Player X is a 9/10 player but he is up against a 10/10 so he will struggle. It is never like that really.

So linked to that - What is Baresi going to do with Ronaldo in your mind? The danger that Ronaldo poses is really his combination of physicality, movement and ruthless finishing - in a lot of situations I don't see what Baresi can do to prevent him scoring here. If he gets played over the top by Koeman or Guardiola then - if the pass is good enough - he will reach the ball first ahead of Baresi and in a 1 vs 1 he'll most likely score.

If Platini gets on the ball then he'll slip passes through to him and in those situations there really isn't a great deal Baresi can do - sometimes the pass is just too good and with the players that Aldo has I see that cropping up a lot. The service to Ronaldo here really is perfect.

Vierchowod is one of the best ever in terms of 1 vs 1 and if Baresi - the greatest CB in the draft - misreads a pass so massively that he Ronaldo completely beats him just from receiving the pass then Vierchowod is still there to be beat.

"Maradona himself had this to say about the man the myth says never got outrun in a competition match;
"[Vierchowod] was an animal, he had muscles to the eyelashes. It was easy to pass by him, but then when I raised my head, he was in front of me again. I would have to pass him two or three more times and then I would pass the ball because I couldn't stand him anymore"

I wouldn't have a single other defender in the draft, possibly even in history, in that situation ahead of Vierchowod, unlikely but maybe Ronaldo does get past him - but the chances of him getting to unleash a shot without Vierchowod right next to him thugging him and keeping him off balance is near none.

Baresi is maybe the greatest reader of the game ever in these scenarios and won't make a fool of himself, either the pass is good and he reads it and stays passively by forcing Ronaldo wide while the team re-organizes or the pass is anything but completely perfect which they rarely are from such a distance even from Koeman and 1. Baresi intercepts it and starts a counter-attack through Maradona or 2. The pass can't be received in the sprint and my team gets to re-organize.

Any time a perfect play happens it is a goal always. Don't forget Maradona has the ability to score receiving the ball alone at his own half, but assuming the perfect scenario - to happen regularly is not realistic.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

What strikes me here is that there's a bit of gulf (well, not gulf, but perhaps a bit of a firth, as the Scots say) between Aldo's frontmen and the three behind them. I don't see them getting forward all that much in this setting. Guardiola and Koeman can ping all day long but they need options to hit with their pinging - and to me it looks very much like those will be limited to the three attackers. Will Bossis and Irwin have much luck going forward here? Doubtful, I'd say. That front trio is impressive as hell and would be enough to spank most teams regardless of the rest of the team - but Aldo isn't up against just about anyone here. I think he would have benefited greatly from having someone slightly sharper as one of the two who now sit in front of Pep. Yes, both Essien and Simeone could get forward a bit on their day, but I feel they'd be out of their depth here as offensive instruments. It's that - very impressive - trio up front against a top notch defense marshaled by Baresi and shielded by Deschamps.

They'll have to be on song, all three, that's for sure.

Annah, by contrast, has Effenberg lined up alongside his sitter - a player who wouldn't be out of his depth offensively in this context. I'm not entirely sold on Enrique, though.

 

[Annahnomoss]

I never said that, to be fair. It just seemed in your comments that you were overloading Aldo's back line and pinning him back, so I am surprised that you are so deep. Maybe it was the language you used.

I think it's clear that Aldo will be playing on the counter and I see the game panning out with your attackers pushing further up the pitch.

No matter what you do I certainly don't see you limiting the threat of his counters - unless you are not going to attack at all. You can't attack whilst simultaneously have a defensive line camped on the area... then the midfield would be completely vacated. No one does that. Even counter attacking sides have to push up when they attack, you can't have huge gaps in between the lines.

That would be the worst tactic imaginable and Platini would finish you off in half an hour.

The defensive line is far more relevant when out of possession, I can see you sitting deep around the area then - it's quite normal. However when you attack and possession gets turned over, the counter is quite clearly on for Aldo.

He has better counter-attackers, but it is still very even with Maradona, Conti and Klinsmann leading the line who are much better defensively than the counter-parts in Aldo's team.

I rate Maradona's chances to dribble past Koeman and Montero as much higher than Cristianos chances to pull the same number on Baresi and Vierchowod. Zanetti/Brehme are the better full-backs too to tuck in and help the CB's out and Deschamps is the better at it than Guardiola.

 

[Theon]

Vierchowod is one of the best ever in terms of 1 vs 1..

Any time a perfect play happens it is a goal always. Don't forget Maradona has the ability to score receiving the ball alone at his own half, but assuming the perfect scenario - to happen regularly is not realistic.

I didn't mean 1 vs 1 with Vierchowod - I meant 1 vs 1 with the keeper.

What you say at the end is really is the point I am making - if the pass is that good then there is nothing the defender can do about it. It doesn't matter who they are. The passing quality in Aldo's team is outstanding, if they play Ronaldo through then there is nothing anyone can do. The ball travels faster than the players, and Ronaldo is quicker anyway.

What you really want to do is cut the supply to Ronaldo - shackle Platini - because then Ronaldo loses a lot of his effectiveness.

If Ronaldo is limited to receiving the ball into his feet then Baresi will be perfect to limit him - no doubt there. But when Ronaldo is latching onto passes or through balls from the likes of Platini then there isn't much Baresi can do about that.

In that latter scenario it is Platini who needs to be stopped. Marking Ronaldo won't do much.

 

[Annahnomoss]

What strikes me here is that there's a bit of gulf (well, not gulf, but perhaps a bit of a firth, as the Scots say) between Aldo's frontmen and the three behind them. I don't see them getting forward all that much in this setting. Guardiola and Koeman can ping all day long but they need options to hit with their pinging - and to me it looks very much like those will be limited to the three attackers. Will Bossis and Irwin have much luck going forward here? Doubtful, I'd say. That front trio is impressive as hell and would be enough to spank most teams regardless of the rest of the team - but Aldo isn't up against just about anyone here. I think he would have benefited greatly from having someone slightly sharper as one of the two who now sit in front of Pep. Yes, both Essien and Simeone could get forward a bit on their day, but I feel they'd be out of their depth here as offensive instruments. It's that - very impressive - trio up front against a top notch defense marshaled by Baresi and shielded by Deschamps.

They'll have to be on song, all three, that's for sure.

Annah, by contrast, has Effenberg lined up alongside his sitter - a player who wouldn't be out of his depth offensively in this context. I'm not entirely sold on Enrique, though.

Enrique's role is different from Conti on the other side. Brehme, who was an outstanding left midfielder on his own, will be the one doing overlaps outside of him and providing the ultimate width. Enrique will be the one creating balance in the side as he can play different roles depending on the different situations that appears.

When he has the ball himself he has the ability to act as a playmaker, to find Brehme out left or cut inside and find Maradona just in front of Koeman and Montero who are busy hunting Klinsmann. Without the ball he can stay deeper than Brehme if needed, or provide off the ball runs in to the box if Brehme is the full-back currently sitting back.

 

[Theon]

I rate Maradona's chances to dribble past Koeman and Montero as much higher than Cristianos chances to pull the same number on Baresi and Vierchowod.

No doubt, Maradona is much better on the ball.

That isn't the threat of Ronaldo here though. He won't dribble past Baresi and no one would say that - what he will do (if given the supply) is reach those through balls first with his pace and physicality.. And most likely finish off the chance.

 

[Annahnomoss]

I didn't mean 1 vs 1 with Vierchowod - I meant 1 vs 1 with the keeper.

What you say at the end is really is the point I am making - if the pass is that good then there is nothing the defender can do about it. It doesn't matter who they are. The passing quality in Aldo's team is outstanding, if they play Ronaldo through then there is nothing anyone can do. The ball travels faster than the players, and Ronaldo is quicker anyway.

Koeman's passing wasn't inch perfect from his own box to the opponents box, Baresi, Vierchowod and Brehme would be making their way backwards as soon as I lose the ball - not as soon as Koeman has already hit the pass.

To assume Koeman will hit an inch perfect pass from 80 yards is very opportunistic to one side, while assuming Baresi will make a mistake is very pessimistic to the other side. I'd say the chance that Baresi misreads a pass and becomes the pure liability for a conceded goal is way less likely than Koeman not hitting that perfect pass in half a season.

 

[Annahnomoss]

No doubt, Maradona is much better on the ball.

That isn't the threat of Ronaldo here though. He won't dribble past Baresi and no one would say that - what he will do (if given the supply) is reach those through balls first with his pace and physicality.. And most likely finish off the chance.

Before Koeman gets the ball Baresi, Vierchowod and Brehme would already have moved home deep as per the instructions - the entire team would be on their way home with Klinsmann harassing Guardiola. Unless Koeman is the one who actually intercepts the ball and gathers full control of it at the same time - there is 0 risk of this perfect ball happening as hitting a 80 yard perfect pass is impossible even for the best long-ranged passers as anything but a fluke once a season.

Vierchowod was known for his ability to intercept balls and instantly turn it to counters and Baresi is the greatest of all time pretty much in that regards. So Koeman's chances of turning an interception to a counter isn't as good as Baresi's and Vierchowod's are - even if Koeman has the longer range of passing.

 

[Theon]

Koeman's passing wasn't inch perfect from his own box to the opponents box... To assume Koeman will hit an inch perfect pass from 80 yards is very opportunistic to one side

I'd say the chance that Baresi misreads a pass and becomes the pure liability for a conceded goal is way less likely than Koeman not hitting that perfect pass in half a season.

Before Koeman gets the ball Baresi, Vierchowod and Brehme would already have moved home deep as per the instructions - there is 0 risk of this perfect ball happening as hitting a 80 yard perfect pass is impossible even for the best long-ranged passers as anything but a fluke once a season.

You can exaggerate all you want, not sure it will do you any favours. Guardiola and Koeman are both comfortable - in fact perfect - for initiating counters from deep. When you push up, which you have to do when you attack, then there aren't too many better to capitalise on that.

Why do you keep banging on about Koeman as well? The threat isn't limited to him - Platini is Aldo's best passer and he doesn't need to make 80 yard passes...

Not that you should underestimate the passing of the others - you can joke about Guardiola or Koeman all you want, but there are few better at getting the ball quickly up to Boniek and Ronaldo.

 

[Annahnomoss]

You can exaggerate all you want, not sure it will do you any favours. Guardiola and Koeman are both comfortable - in fact perfect - for initiating counters from deep. When you push up, which you have to do when you attack, then there aren't too many better to capitalise on that.

Why do you keep banging on about Koeman as well? The threat isn't limited to him - Platini is Aldo's best passer and he doesn't need to make 80 yard passes...

You were the one banging on about Koeman taking my entire defense out and setting up Ronaldo not me mate.

Guardiola is already going to be harassed constantly by Klinsmann, it is his only role in the defense - to force Aldo to use Koeman's passing which is great but from the CB position it is incredibly hard no matter how good you are.

As good as Koeman's passing was I believe the chances he finds difficulties with Maradona - who by no means will be stopped by Guardiola nor Essien centrally - are much higher than that he decides this match with an inch perfect long ball.

 

[Theon]

You were the one banging on about Koeman taking my entire defense out and setting up Ronaldo not me mate.

Not really mate - have a read again.

The threat is from all three of them - all great passers - and I spoke about all of them. You kept bringing it back to Koeman, probably because it's the easiest to downplay.

What you really want to do is cut the supply to Ronaldo - shackle Platini - because then Ronaldo loses a lot of his effectiveness.

In that latter scenario it is Platini who needs to be stopped. Marking Ronaldo won't do much.

 

[Theon]

I think that is probably enough for me to say on it Annah - don't want to seem bias mate

You mentioned a few things which needed to be clarified IMO but you still have a great team.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Not really mate - have a read again.

The threat is from all three of them - all great passers - and I spoke about all of them. You kept bringing it back to Koeman, probably because it's the easiest to downplay.

Didn't see that! Like I said Guardiola and Platini are who I have focused on here - it is impossible to stop them all from receiving balls so I have chosen to allow Koeman to get the balls. Guardiola is constantly harassed by Klinsmann to avoid him from having any time on the ball whenever he receives it.

With Guardiola out of the game to a big extent, Platini is the only real creator of the side in the midfield and offense - and it will be asking a lot for Simeone and Essien to find him with crisp smooth passing in between the cnut Effenberg and the defensively great Deschamps. Platini will most likely have to move to space, or down to the midfield to pick up balls like Maradona for me - in which case his dangerous shots won't be a threat.

So if Guardiola is out of the game, the creative burden to find Platini is put on players who aren't very creative offensively - he will also do most of his link up with Simeone and Essien - which will have Platini with the ball in worse areas than if he had someone like Scholes/Effenberg there.

All in all I think Maradona has plenty more routes to receive balls in good areas, and Maradona of course has a much wider range of areas that he can still dominate from. You won't see Platini by the corner flag dominating the right wing or going on a solo raid through an organized defense in the same extent Maradona will.

Platini has less players to find in front of him, a worse supporting cast to allow him time and good positions with the ball and he is up against the better defensive side by a large margin.

 

[Annahnomoss]

I think that is probably enough for me to say on it Annah - don't want to seem bias mate

You mentioned a few things which needed to be clarified IMO but you still have a great team.

No worries at all mate, no hard feelings. I appreciate that you bring it up if I was unclear so I can make it more clear. The other option is that some people think it is unclear and vote confused.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Enrique's role is different from Conti on the other side. Brehme, who was an outstanding left midfielder on his own, will be the one doing overlaps outside of him and providing the ultimate width. Enrique will be the one creating balance in the side as he can play different roles depending on the different situations that appears.

When he has the ball himself he has the ability to act as a playmaker, to find Brehme out left or cut inside and find Maradona just in front of Koeman and Montero who are busy hunting Klinsmann. Without the ball he can stay deeper than Brehme if needed, or provide off the ball runs in to the box if Brehme is the full-back currently sitting back.

Fair points - I'll buy that. If this works - and it could, Enrique's strong point in this setting is precisely his versatility - you have a more than decent shot of getting Brehme going to the left (as the main wide threat) and Conti going on the right (with Zanetti being less prone to venture forward). A cross from either Brehme or Conti could be dangerous here. Montero will have to take care of Klinsmann, who is hell in the air - would not leave that to Koeman. With runs from Effenberg, Enrique (if Conti crosses) and Maradona himself - well, there's danger of the first order.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Fair points - I'll buy that. If this works - and it could, Enrique's strong point in this setting is precisely his versatility - you have a more than decent shot of getting Brehme going to the left (as the main wide threat) and Conti going on the right (with Zanetti being less prone to venture forward). A cross from either Brehme or Conti could be dangerous here. Montero will have to take care of Klinsmann, who is hell in the air - would not leave that to Koeman. With runs from Effenberg, Enrique (if Conti crosses) and Maradona himself - well, there's danger of the first order.

Some very good points, Koeman isn't the defender you want on crosses against Klinsmann and the lower pass towards Maradona is absolutely lethal here. Maradona would turn that to a goal sooner than later with his dribbling especially as I don't think neither of the defenders nor midfielders bar Simeone in Aldo's team are up to the task defensively.

 

[antohan]

I can't make much sense of those Annah monologues but for once I think Ignored Member may have a point there. Chester has also touched on it and I mentioned it from the off: you don't need Zanetti and Brehme bombing forward. In fact, Brehme is quite clearly the better attacking threat out of the two so you would want him going up all day long and Zanetti staying back most of the time. Conti will indeed largely be playing on the right, as you have him. Occasionally you may want Conti to go left and Zanetti to take initiative, just to shake things up a bit, but solely as an occasional thing.

It keeps bringing me back to what the hell is Lucho doing there Annah. You are trying to create this illusion of a regular 2v1 on the fullback which is completely unnecessary. I don't get why you changed your entire formation to support that premise. Brehme doesn't need to be 2v1 to have an impact, nor does Conti TBH. Instead, you don't have a clearly defined role for Lucho when it is quite obvious your best setup is for Deschamps deep/sitting and ensuring there's no large gap between lines Platini could exploit (or for Koeman/Guardiola to ping a ball into), and Lucho and Effenberg being more all-round and progressive in possession (and supporting Brehme/Conti by providing a pivot when applicable). I really don't get this hard-on for having attacking fullbacks AND two "wingers" as the only recipe to get past a fullback and get a cross in.

I agree with that defensive lineup and facing no out and out striker you had absolutely no need for the sweeper any more, so you get to add another attacker in Conti (Boniek would have been better but Aldo obviously wasn't goign to let him go cheaply). That's all, minor change to the setup, not wholesale changes. There's nothing wrong with a formation not being symmetric.

 

[Annahnomoss]

@antohan Even Abidal for Barcelona moved forward and provided width at times with Alves on the other side. The formation you have created is how the team will look when I attack through the left side - which with Brehme being the best offensive threat - will be the manner my team will be prone to attack.

When the team moves up through the right the team will use Zanetti's width which is world-class as well, the same way Barcelona allowed Abidal to also move forward - even if Alves was better offensively. There is a reason 99% of sides uses both full-backs alternating with pushing forward - there is also a reason why all teams has a side they are more prone to attacking through as it is a better attacking set up.

With Brehme being better at finding space offensively and getting involved the team is going to attack there more than at Zanetti's side.

I've never seen a non Catenaccio team use the tactics you describe of having a full-back who never moves forward. Even United last season with Evra and Smalling in the side, saw Smalling move forward plenty as well.

The difference between adding Conti as an attacker and adding him here in his better role IMO as a right winger is how they work defensively. Conti can in the offense move about as he wishes anyhow, but has a defensive job out right.

Enrique's role on the left is similar, he is always prone to cutting inside and his defensive role is what makes it a 4-4-1-1 defensively. In the offense he will be doing the balance job which I think is needed here.

If Effenberg pushes forward for example Enrique will be doing the job to cover and he is comfortable as a combative CM as well so it comes in handy.

 

[Gio]

A cracker of a game.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Hehe, you just love any excuse to play around with that sharemytactics site, don't you, anto?

Good call, though. I love an asymmetrical formation myself.

Brehme doesn't need to be 2v1 to have an impact, nor does Conti.

Damn right. I was told at some point that Littbarski - of all players - wouldn't cause any trouble for Evra (of all players) unless he had help from a fullback to double up on him. If we can't assume that some of the finest, most aggressive dribblers in the history of the game can't occasionally get past a defender - well, then there ain't much we can assume at all.

EDIT And before anyone accuses me of hailing Brehme as one of the best dribblers in history - that wasn't really the point here. He's not even looking to beat his man necessarily, but to use that peg of his to cross, or pass to an oncoming team mate in a dangerous position. Someone like, oh I don't know, Maradona.

 

[antohan]

Likewise, Aldo, I'm surprised to see no Lerby here. I understand people will get what Simeone and Essien offer straight away, but Lerby is better suited to this game. For those not familiar with him, I'd say the closest you can find in style/"meaning" is Davids in terms of how dynamic he was, his ability to cover out wide on the left and with a cannon shot for good measure. Will also be far more familiar with this sort of setup being an Ajax Academy graduate, and it's no mystery why Bayern looked at him as the successor to Breitner. I would have benched Essien or not got Simeone but Lerby should be on the pitch ahead of either of those.