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FC Bayern 16/17 discussion
- Thread starter Cristiano Lell
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Another drab and awful game. This time with the appropriate result. Ancelotti still has to imprint some form of identity onto this squad, so far he has only managed to take the Pep out of our play.
Klopp must be laughing. 
Couldn't see the game. How bad was it? 'Very bad', or 'like really, really bad'?
How does Klopp figure into this?Klopp must be laughing.
Couldn't watch enough to decide. Just bad.
Really very bad.
Nothing unexpected.
I said at the start of the season they could easily start to fade and that Pep might have gotten out at the right time. I think their board is guilty as they have been in the past of complacency, unfortunately for them. They have almost been sleepwalking into a situation where 4 of their absolute best player's are all fading at the same time with their replacements either not ready to fill their shoes or incapable and have found it easy to fade into the background. You add a bad patch of form to Muller into that equation and it looks bleak.
I think most of the posters on here for example have massively overestimated their transfer policy over the past few years; a fair few of their signings have been penny smart, pound foolish in my view.
I think most of the posters on here for example have massively overestimated their transfer policy over the past few years; a fair few of their signings have been penny smart, pound foolish in my view.
The thing is, Ancelotti's not really the sort of manager like Pep, Jose or Simeone where they actually stamp their own identity on their teams.
He's excellent at man-managing egos and finding the right system for the players at his disposal but he seems to struggle when he has to rebuild sides, which is why he seemed a strange choice to succeed Pep.
Boateng looked really average.
Ancelloti should have followed Heynkes, with Pep following Ancelloti.
Bayern should get Ozil by the way, I think they lack a silky, creative playmaker behind the striker.
Most Germans probably feel the same way about England.
That's being kind.
Pep blues, been there
Didn't Ancelotti have the same issues at Chelsea? He was switching around formations at the start and then reverted back to 4-3-3 which the players were used to.
Looked like Arsenal yesterday. They were basically screaming for counter attacks on them..
It doesn't excuse everything but he had been carrying an injury since the Euros and played with painkillers. Yesterday he was subbed off because of an injury to the muscle.
Explains quite a lot, playing whilst injured seems tough to me.
Never thought that Klopp speaks English so fluently. Sorry for derailing the thread.
Rib and Rob have probably been the best true wingers of the past 10 yrs. We were incredibly lucky to get both of them to play for us in the first place, as both fell victim to their circumstances before we hired them. Finding equivalent replacements is a nigh impossible task.
The only huge blunder by our board was the unnecessary Kroos disaster, which cost us one the 3 best DLPs worldwide.
What he's not so good at, is butt-kicking saturated egos when necessary and re-igniting the fire in said egos. Hope he'll find a way to turn the tides, but the trend looks worrysome atm.
Nah, apart from the lack of good beer, the terrible weather, and your awful taste in cuisine you folks are generally very well liked over here.
Izec just suffers from Small Neighbor Syndrome, which is quite common among those neighboring countries with similar language and culture. Some folks over there perceive us as an overwhelming bully, which isn't totally unjustified tbf.
Some of it stems from our past, erm, "visits" in the mid 20th century, some of it from our present status of economic and political dominance, which in turn stirs up bad memories.
We all start learning English as a main subject at school at the age of 10. In contrast to the French
we are not ashamed of doing so, which makes fluent English among Germans a pretty common thing.You can get by in Germany perfectly without speaking a single word of German.
Aye Pep's tenure has be extremely draining, both mentally and physically, for the players and it's no surprise that both Bayern and Barca look/looked worse for wear after he left them. Probably why he won't be able to stick with a side for more than 3 seasons at best. Wonder what state he will leave City in. bite
Do you think it is unfair to say it is a Pep thing.. they had a long cycle before he arrived of constantly striving to win the CL, finally getting there.. likewise the likes of Robben, and german contingent had a long journey to win world cup/get to finals.. and now they're just mentally tired as feck. It has been close to a 6 year cycle of success/near success.
I am not sure if any manager would be capable of sustaining that level of dedication and focus.. one thing I do know though, Ancellotti is the worst top manager going when it comes to rejuvenating and introducing fresh perspective/new blood into a team. He is very slick at tweaking teams who have good fundamental ingredients to obtain success but when there is a rebuild needed, he isn't the type of guy who can tear things up and start again.
Kroos was a huge blunder, you are correct. However to say finding players of equivalent talent to Robben/Ribery is impossible, whilst not even being in the conversation when Sanchez, Di Maria, Suarez, Bale, De Bruyne & Neymar have all moved clubs is a little bit naive. Likewise looking for a top drawer creative midfielder and Pogba/Ozil or even Mata not being part of the thought process is again strange.
The fact that one of the most financially affluent clubs in the world has a transfer record of around £35m (the same as a club like Liverpool) is pretty bizarre. It's a philosophy that does not include signing the best players in the world, but rather signing players who only want to stay in Germany so are somewhat inexpensive (Gotze, Lewandowski, Hummels) and/or are players who are nowhere near proven enough to replace your top players (Costa, Sanches, Kimmich, Benatia) or are huge risks (Vidal).
The only reason that I can see is that the board have gotten complacent again and have no appetite to spend €200-250k a week on players' salaries and/or €45m+ in transfer fees, when they are walking to title after title and getting far enough in the Champions League to appease the fans and bring in the €€€. Possibly because the former may have other ramifications (ie if they signed De Bruyne on €200k a week, the likes of Lahm/Lewandowski/Muller/Neuer would be queuing up for a 20% pay rise).
I said 4 years ago that Bayern were destined to win 9 out of the next 10 League titles, such was their financial dominance. It seems that the board has taken the budget approach of "why strengthen our squad, when we can weaken our nearest rivals instead", when they should be looking globally.
You just have to look at the squad (age) to see that it's not just some form of Pep hangover.
Do they regret turning down our 100m bid for Muller I wonder?
Use the money for a more dynamic partner for Lewandowski in Dybala or Sanchez and insert more individucality into the side.
Use the money for a more dynamic partner for Lewandowski in Dybala or Sanchez and insert more individucality into the side.
As I said above, it's strange - my perception is just different than yours seems to be. I'm not saying Thiago doesn't need to improve or that he didn't have some terrible performances, but I don't see at all how these should overshadow what I perceive to be, quite regularly too, decent to excellent performances.
These good performances might happen more often with weak opposition, but isn't that true for many such technical midfielders? As if Kroos, for example, doesn't have his instances of being completely overrun and/or weak and invisible?
I realize that both perform different roles and with varying success so the comparison might be off, but if we're talking about influence or impact in tough games I find it harsh to single out Thiago as clearly.
Anyway, both of you seem to view Thiago's contributions fundamentally different than I do and that's not something I can brush aside. I can't be sure whether my view is accurate or right, especially since I'd usually subscribe to pretty much all posts of the two of you. I don't know. Maybe I rate highly him mainly because I want to. But I still do.
IIRC you were somewhat speaking out against a Carlo appointment, because of his uninspired and boring football, right? Well the current picture seems to confirm your reservations.
With the way we play recently, I'm reminded an awful lot of the 2014/15 Real, for example in the semis against Juve - more possession, 'attacking' most of the game, but no meaningful connection between midfield and forwards, a lot of mindnumbingly futile crossing and no clear plan to create chances.
We were dominant away at BVB too, after all, which is not that easy to do, but it was a dull kind of dominance.
Strangely we did look far more sharp, creative and incisive in some moments the begining of the season, even in the first, say, 20 minutes of the Atletico away game we ended losing.
Bad individual form of players who were reliable for years plays a part of course (Boateng, Müller, Lahm, even Alaba), yet an accumulation of several individuals in simultaneous bad form may hint at something not working either in the coaching approach or somewhere in the team environment.
This may include, yes, some kind of hangover from Pep's intensity, with Carlo's supposedly relaxed, fatherly approach underwhelming the players (funny enough how journos and commentators, also the little bitch Ribéry himself, were saying how the squad was 'liberated' by Carlo, what a load of bollocks). It might include some sort of saturation or burn out after many successes, it might be temporary or more deep seated. I don't feel able to tell.
But I'm not going to worry too much either way. We've gotten used to winning everything domestically just like that, we'll have to get used again to the fact that this is not normal.
And personally I won't worry too much about Carlo being the right man either. I'll just be content that he is our coach and that's that.
I'm going to put it this way:
If it's inevitable that we are going to have a weak season or two after several years of consistency at the top (maybe not win the league after unprecedented 4 in a row etc) -and it seems to me it might be inevitable-, I'd still argue that Carlo might be the best manager to have during that 'crisis'.
Not because he averts it, but because the club doesn't turn nasty and hysterical as easily.
And I fail to see whom else we could have gotten to succeed Pep who wouldn't get into trouble much more easily. Again, it might have to with me simply liking Ancelotti as a person very much.
One more thing however: Ever since the treble, people in Germany (ironically not just Bayern fans but also those who are against Bayern domestically) kept obsessing about the CL and the need/expectation to win it. IMO there's some kind of nationalist yearning for appreciation weaved into this, which FC Bayern apparently has to fulfill even for anti-Bayern BuLi fans. Hence also some of the more irrational and over the top anti-Pep outbursts, blaming him for 'ruining' Jupp's team and 'failing to win' in Europe.
This obsession dragged many down to the point they couldn't realize or appreciate the exceptional period of success and great football we did have with Pep, especially in a league that was by no means easy or weak -not a perfect period, not without flaws and low points, maybe not topping the 12/13 perfect storm, but still exceptionally great.
Now, many seem to 'tolerate' the much lesser defined, and somewhat lesser consistently successful, playing style under Carlo since they still seem to firmly expect Carlo to deliver what Pep couldn't. 'CL specialist' and so on.
I want to say very clearly that this is foolish. We might very well have to tolerate not winning the league and crashing out of CL early.
Because one thing I know for sure: you can't plan or expect a CL win, least of all when your team has stagnated in individual quality compared to the competition. We won't win the CL this year, we're frankly not good enough.
I repeat once again how baffled I am at the fact that we can't sub on a decent backup striker when we need a goal.
People pointed out we might have been very well erring on the frugal side in recent windows. Suarez was deemed too expensive in 2013. De Bruyne was deemed too expensive in 2015, (btw curious and really problematic matter if we think KDB was turned down and went to Pep's already decided future destination while he was still our coach, similar with Gündogan).
This attitude is very tricky to maintain for a club that has the self-concept of being a European elite club.
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It wasn't really his football, rather than him being such a boring character. I'm not sure what to make of him as a tactician either, even though he obviously had some great years in his career. I would have prefered taking the risk with a young coach on the way up, who might flop, but might also be great. I admire Barca for the risks they take with their managers. I hated that the timing regarding Tuchel was off and that we couldn't offer him the job in 2014 or 2015.
Bayern had their AGM today.
Revenue = €592m (€626.8m including transfer fees) it was €474m last season.
Personal expenses = €260.3m, €227.3m last season.
Profit after tax = €33m, €23.8m last season.
Revenue = €592m (€626.8m including transfer fees) it was €474m last season.
Personal expenses = €260.3m, €227.3m last season.
Profit after tax = €33m, €23.8m last season.
We have our AGM today, it starts in a couple of minutes. Hoeneß will be back as our president today and I still don't know how I feel about that.
So the latest "World Football Revenue Ranking" is as follows:
1) Barca
2) Bayern
3) Real
4) United
Very impressive if you consider that Bayern is on comparably low TV money.
1) Barca
2) Bayern
3) Real
4) United
Very impressive if you consider that Bayern is on comparably low TV money.
We'll be top on about €670m because Deloitte use the average exchange rate in the last year which will be around 1.30. Real and Barca both made €620m last season, Bayern will be 4th with €590m.
Barca is at €679m, Bayern at €627m and Real at €620m for 2015/2016.
United's is £515m, isn't it? With today's(!) fx-rate that's €619m. ;-)
Transfer fee revenue is included in the the Bayern and Barca figures.
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Can anyone tell me how much the loss in value of the gbp affects the english clubs? how much does that set the english clubs back compared to their european counterparts?
Ribéry extended his contract for 1 more year.
Did Bayern deserve the win yesterday?
No. Leverkusen deserved at least a draw and were robbed by the referee in the end.
Bayern should have gotten two penalties for a foul on lewandwoski and a elbow in martinez' face. So i dont see how Leverkusen got robbed.
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