Well, yeah, we could have had two penalties earlier. We still sucked, Leverkusen was playing at least as good as we did and they should have got a draw in the end.
FC Bayern 16/17 discussion
- Thread starter Cristiano Lell
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Rummenigge said something about Boateng needing to 'slow down' as it is 'all too much since the summer'. He didn't elaborate on that in the interview, though.
Must be PR stunts, social media, and the likes.
That goalkee.... midfielder...
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Excellent. :mrburns:
And to think that both Lahm and Alonso are going to retire after this season. Monstrous performance from both, with the former being my MotM.
It will be a hard blow for Bayern.
It will be a hard blow for Bayern.
It would hurt any team. But I must say I think Bayern can cope, I mean they already have Kimmich, Martinez, Thiago, Vidal and Sanches and they will probably buy as well.And to think that both Lahm and Alonso are going to retire after this season. Monstrous performance from both, with the former being my MotM.
It will be a hard blow for Bayern.
Not really impressed by them. We just allowed them to do what they wanted. P.S.G. impressed me much more, with their fast midfield.
Conversely, you could say Barcelona let PSG do whatever they want too.
It was a bit of both. Teams playing well and their opposition playing poorly.
Absolutely not. P.S.G. were unstoppable yesterday, while we are at our usual self.
Lahm is sensational.
PSG played a perfect game, Bayern's win was more routine. Doesn't mean that you should underrate their performance though - you play the opponent that was given to you by the draw, if the opponent plays badly it doesn't diminish your performance; and you hardly can expect a better result than 5:1
Why do bayern play with such slow defenders? It's very high risk especially for a team that keeps the ball that well and keeps a high line. Sure Arsenal couldn't string a few passes together in order to be a threat but clubs like PSG and Madrid with stronger midfields will cause them a few issues.
Boateng is Bayern's fastest defender, but he's been out for 2-3 months due to injury. Should be back for the return match.
This summer will be very important for Bayern and i think we'll see how ambitious the Bayern bosses are and in which direction the team will develop. Unfortunately, i don't have a very good feeling about that.
I read yesterday in the sueddeutsche that they plan on going into next season with Kimmich, Rafinha and Rudy as the RB options because the players that would be good enough are too expensive. Even though it's just a rumour, it's something that wouldn't come as a big surprise to me.
I'm also not happy with our wingers. Robben and Ribery are brilliant but they shouldn't be the no.1 options anymore with all their injury problems. Costa is a good backup but not good enough as a starter. He's also at an age where i don't expect big improvements from him anymore. Coman is still too raw. Bayern should replace Costa with someone who can play on a level as close to Ribery and Robben as possible (Sanchez?) and, if Hoeness & Co are really ambitious, another talented CAM who, in the best case, also feels comfortable on the wing.
I read yesterday in the sueddeutsche that they plan on going into next season with Kimmich, Rafinha and Rudy as the RB options because the players that would be good enough are too expensive. Even though it's just a rumour, it's something that wouldn't come as a big surprise to me.
I'm also not happy with our wingers. Robben and Ribery are brilliant but they shouldn't be the no.1 options anymore with all their injury problems. Costa is a good backup but not good enough as a starter. He's also at an age where i don't expect big improvements from him anymore. Coman is still too raw. Bayern should replace Costa with someone who can play on a level as close to Ribery and Robben as possible (Sanchez?) and, if Hoeness & Co are really ambitious, another talented CAM who, in the best case, also feels comfortable on the wing.
What is the issue with Coman who seems to have disappeared?
Who's good enough and available? Pretty much all top teams are struggling to find a quality rightback. United went back to Valencia as the main option, Pep probably would be really happy if he got Rafinha to play for City next season. Barca haven't replaced Alves with a decent one either.
I don't see anyone who'd be a world class signing to replace Lahm, so we might as well give Kimmich a chance with Rafinha as the back-up if it fails. Still don't get why we signed Rudy though.
Agree that we need a quality addition to our attack and Sanchez would be absolutely perfect. Can play on either wing and as a forward, gives us tactical flexibility, a quality backup option to Lewandowski if needed and has the right mentality to replace Ribery/Robben. His age is a bit of a concern, but if he gives us 2-3 years of excellent performances, then that's more than enough.
He has been injured for basically the first half of the season and in the few minutes he played he didn't really impress.
Didn't play well in the first few weeks of the season, then got injured for about 3 months and is now slowly coming back into the team through a few appearances as a sub.
This deserves to be here to be fair:
Would they be level of West Brom/Everton or actually a bit closer to Tottenham and Arsenal (obviously not quite there yet).
What do you lot think? Would they be able to sustain the amazing quality of Premier League or would they simply become and Europa League quality team here?Wumminator said:
Would they be level of West Brom/Everton or actually a bit closer to Tottenham and Arsenal (obviously not quite there yet).
No idea who's good enough, i watch way too little football for that. I'm actually fine with Kimmich, but then they need to bring in another CM. I think he has everything to succeed as RB, although i think it would be a bit of a waste of talent and I'd prefer him to become Alonso's successor.
Please don't, those discussions always end up in one big clusterfeck of a thread.
Yeah was meant as a joke mostly.
The second half yesterday was great but overall I did not think Bayern were that amazing last night. It's just that Arsenal, and English clubs in general, are so incompetent and tactically naive that they are very easy to dismantle. It doesn't happen too often anymore in Bundesliga, last weekend you struggled at Ingolstadt and won due to a very late goal, the week before Schalke got a point from your ground and Freiburg caused you a lot of trouble at the beginning of this round too. You will still comfortably win the title because Borussia have been clueless but there's work to do for Ancelotti and he is definitely not the best league manager out there. Great in the cups but not so good in the league.
The second half yesterday was great but overall I did not think Bayern were that amazing last night. It's just that Arsenal, and English clubs in general, are so incompetent and tactically naive that they are very easy to dismantle. It doesn't happen too often anymore in Bundesliga, last weekend you struggled at Ingolstadt and won due to a very late goal, the week before Schalke got a point from your ground and Freiburg caused you a lot of trouble at the beginning of this round too. You will still comfortably win the title because Borussia have been clueless but there's work to do for Ancelotti and he is definitely not the best league manager out there. Great in the cups but not so good in the league.
There are a few classy ones out there, Coleman, Bellerin, Walker, Fabinho even if he played midfield lately, but they would be very very expensive to get, something Bayern is not known to pay..
I wonder what we will do when Valencia is going to decline..the rumours of Semedo, who is being linked with both of us, i don't know. Not convinced about him, pretty bad performance against Dortmund..don't rate good performances against Rio Ave or GD Chaves
Weren't Bayern linked with the Napoli RB (Albanian I think)?
Thanks
None of them is even remotely near the quality of Lahm. They're solid players with different strength and weaknesses, but hardly worth discussing as a big money signing to continue the quality we had at the fullback positions over the last 15-20 years. If that's the quality that is available, we'd rather try to develop one ourselves and play Rafinha for 2 more years if it fails.
We're linked with rightbacks all the time, not sure if there's any truth to any of the rumours though.
Guess you just didn't see enough games of them. Fair enough.
I think looking in the EPL makes little sense, given that the price to quality ratio there is usually horrendous. So Walker, Coleman and Bellerin are definitely not an option.
That is a really polite way of putting it mate, tell us what you really think haha!
I think both Barca and yourselves were pathetic but agree that end of the day beating a half arsed Barca is still a much bigger achievement than beating you lot.
It's going to be fascinating watching how Bayern evolve this team. Their domestic dominance, both financially and sporting, means they've pretty much had their pick of players in Germany for umpteen years, and have always been competitive going for players from abroad.
However a combination of shifting finances in Europe & improved scouting means that Bayern won't have it all their own way. It'll be much harder picking up gems already in Germany, and the number of teams that can outspend them in Europe is much greater than just Real and Barca now. Half the Premier League has got major spending power these days, plus the wildcard of the Chinese league.
Bayern still have a great combination of strong finances and, perhaps most importantly, near guaranteed success. Lots of players will fancy some of that. But they're going to have to be at their canny best to build another squad as strong as the one that's been there since the Heynckes treble winning year.
I think Kimmich is our best bet. He has the skillset to reach or at least get close to Philipps levels of performance. He just needs some time to settle in.
Rudy is a great signing, imo. He's excellent for Hoffenheim this year, doesn't cost us a transfer fee, and can play on various positions. Every team needs capable squad players, and I think we found a good one in Rudy.
Agree, Sanchez would be great, and given his contract situation, he seems like an attainable target. Plus, we have Arturo already playing for us, so he might be able to put in a good word.
Hope we're going for someone who can back up Thiago. We should try to throw our hat in if Dahoud doesn't extend his contract at Gladbach.
We still have our inofficial right of first pick when it gets to German talents. See Süle, who'll join us this summer for a mere 20-25m despite all the Chelsea talk.
Do not underestimate the tremendous pull we have on every German player. We're the flagship of German football, wearing our shirt still counts more than that of clubs like Chelsea here.
As for our finances, there are only 3 clubs with a bigger revenue than us, Utd, Real and Barca. In contrast to Real and Barca we are free of debt. Apart from that, it was never our policy to join into spending battles about the next big thing anyway. Remember, Javi Martinez is still our record signing at 40m €. Of course, that won't be the case for much longer, but I don't see our recruitment policy going under drastic changes in the future nevertheless.
We'll always be looking for a good compromise between potential and price. Sure, you cannot always rely on getting gems like Rib and Rob or Thiago this way, but it's at least a sustainable model to remain among the Elite. Whether we're able to maintain our status of being one of the 3 or 4 best clubs in Europe 5 years down the road or not reamins to be seen. I think however, even if we don't we won't be far off.
It will be tough, because basically all of Lahm, Ribéry and Robben are virtually irreplaceable, in the sense that there's arguably no player out there that matches their quality, that we could possibly get. Those three are in the tier of all time greats (however exactly you want to order it).
On the wings, Douglas Costa sure isn't enough, especially since as @schwalbe said, he's at an age where with him what you see is what you get. Good player, occasional stunning moments but all in all not consistently great enough.
And even (and I'm dead serious here) if we did somehow miraculously manage to buy, say, Hazard, it would still not be certain that he even manages to perform at peak Ribéry level. I know many posters reading this will want to protest but Bayern fans know I'm right. That is neglecting the fact that such a deal would be financially and factually rather improbable. I'd take him fo course.
Alexis, I have to say I'm not his biggest fan, I think he's surpassing Robben only in terms of selfishness and tunnel vision, not quality. Still he's undoubtedly a top player and would be a quality addition -I would not push him off the proverbial bed's edge-, especially since I've been banging the 'we need another striker type' drum ad nauseam here. His contract's running out so he might be somewhat reasonably priced in summer, also given his age.
Coman, I had a great feeling about him last season, this season he has not shown anything (obviously for the most part not his fault, injury and no game time).
As things stand I'm not even sure we will actually buy him, though arguably he should be considered a worthwile young player for the 25m € we still need to cough up. Thing is, so far Ancelotti does not seema huge fan and that is of course one of the most deciding factors. We can rate a 'prospect' as high as we want, if he doesn't get game time it will never materialize.
Basically we need to try to get Dembele ASAP. I doubt it will happen, this summer not at all and next summer the competition will be tough. Everyone will be throwing money at him and BVB. But he's the real deal. He's the only attacking youngster I know of where I'm fairly certain he will be true elite. Not the only one looking promising, but with him the odds are real.
For right back, I am actually a huge fan of Bellerin, and I would love it if we signed him. Not that he can be a Lahm 'successor', but I do think he's a very exciting young right back. We will not get him though, I'm sure. He looks settled and if he leaves theres' always Man City and Barca waving hello.
Henrichs looks great and should definitively be a potential target but Leverkusen players seem to be rather hard to get for us. Klostermann we'd have to wait and see how he does after his ACL, but buying players away from Red Bull should generally be considered a good idea.
Not that I would mind just letting Kimmich play the position for a while and see how he does, why not. He's a good youngster who has proven to have a stable attitude and ability to perform, but I'm not sure that Carlo got the memo to regard him as the new right back. We'd probably end up just with Rafinha being the starter. I love Rafinha, but that would be rather dissapointing.
On the wings, Douglas Costa sure isn't enough, especially since as @schwalbe said, he's at an age where with him what you see is what you get. Good player, occasional stunning moments but all in all not consistently great enough.
And even (and I'm dead serious here) if we did somehow miraculously manage to buy, say, Hazard, it would still not be certain that he even manages to perform at peak Ribéry level. I know many posters reading this will want to protest but Bayern fans know I'm right. That is neglecting the fact that such a deal would be financially and factually rather improbable. I'd take him fo course.
Alexis, I have to say I'm not his biggest fan, I think he's surpassing Robben only in terms of selfishness and tunnel vision, not quality. Still he's undoubtedly a top player and would be a quality addition -I would not push him off the proverbial bed's edge-, especially since I've been banging the 'we need another striker type' drum ad nauseam here. His contract's running out so he might be somewhat reasonably priced in summer, also given his age.
Coman, I had a great feeling about him last season, this season he has not shown anything (obviously for the most part not his fault, injury and no game time).
As things stand I'm not even sure we will actually buy him, though arguably he should be considered a worthwile young player for the 25m € we still need to cough up. Thing is, so far Ancelotti does not seema huge fan and that is of course one of the most deciding factors. We can rate a 'prospect' as high as we want, if he doesn't get game time it will never materialize.
Basically we need to try to get Dembele ASAP. I doubt it will happen, this summer not at all and next summer the competition will be tough. Everyone will be throwing money at him and BVB. But he's the real deal. He's the only attacking youngster I know of where I'm fairly certain he will be true elite. Not the only one looking promising, but with him the odds are real.
For right back, I am actually a huge fan of Bellerin, and I would love it if we signed him. Not that he can be a Lahm 'successor', but I do think he's a very exciting young right back. We will not get him though, I'm sure. He looks settled and if he leaves theres' always Man City and Barca waving hello.
Henrichs looks great and should definitively be a potential target but Leverkusen players seem to be rather hard to get for us. Klostermann we'd have to wait and see how he does after his ACL, but buying players away from Red Bull should generally be considered a good idea.
Not that I would mind just letting Kimmich play the position for a while and see how he does, why not. He's a good youngster who has proven to have a stable attitude and ability to perform, but I'm not sure that Carlo got the memo to regard him as the new right back. We'd probably end up just with Rafinha being the starter. I love Rafinha, but that would be rather dissapointing.
Forget it. That ship has sailed, or let's say it never came close to anchoring in our harbor. Dembele is going to be a battleground for those clubs who are willing to make three digit million offers 2 years down the road.
Bellerin is slightly overrated if you ask me, and won't be available for reasonable price. Henrichs is your typical converted winger. He looks great going forward, but I have doubts on his actual defensive capabilities.
As already stated, sticking with Kimmich seems to most reasonable solution to me. In contrast to your view, I don't see him as a suitable successor for Alonso. He lacks the required passing range for that to happen.
Dembélé is only interested in joining Barcelona: his ultimate dream.
He could have joined them last summer but he knew it was too early. And he was sure to play regularly with Dortmund.
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Yeah I guess you are right. His style is so spectacular that he's the player that will elicit feverish bids, and it's likely we'll not participate when it gets like that, as we rarely ever do.
But that's just the thing. Are we going to keep buying Costas for 30 millions € (make that, inflation wise, ~40 million in future windows) or are we going to compete for the real top players? As I said, Dembele's the real deal. Coman likely not, at least to that extent.
We let Sané and De Bruyne join City, as it seems, because we weren't willing to pay the fees needed to get them (both would have gladly joined us). You can argue each case's worthwileness individually, but a picture emerges where our being stingy, or 'prudent'/moderate/.., leaves us with worse players than our European competitors. I'd definitively have either one over Alexis.
Speaking of which, I still haven't fully figured out these affairs. This reeks to me, it's fishy. While Pep is our coach, we decline De Bruyne and let him go to City, yet Pep already knows he himself will be taking over City? Pep's mercenary 'I'm a butterfly' attitude was definitively problematic in this regard, for the squad planning of clubs.
I wouldn't bet on us trying to pull off "crazy" things. The 3 pillars of our squad building philosophy will still be 1) secure the best domestic talent, 2) be somewhat willing to place bets on foreign prospects like Coman or Sanches, and 3) trying scoop up class players who are relatively cheap due special circumstances, like Rib or Rob in the past. Sanchez could very well be the next one fitting this bracket.
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