Fear of changing the manager

[Micky Targaryen]

One of the better threads I've read this year.

I can already see a few Ole inners getting defensive , even though this thread isn't particularly about Ole at all.

Another myth to add is that whenever we appoint a new manager, fans seem to think that the new manager has to "rip up the squad and we are back to square one again". Honestly I have no idea where that belief came from. Why is it necessary to "rip up" the squad. A decent/good manager can work with what he's got and implement his tactics on the squad. Our players are professionals and are not robots who are programmed to a certain set of tactics only. A good manager would improve those players and improve the squad further with a few more signings down the road. Really do hate it when someone panics and says, "We shouldn't sack manager X because it will destroy what he has been building and the new manager will just rip it all apart and we are back to square one again!" WTF?

 

[humiliated]

We had unique luck that we had Fergie. And because of that most of United fans lost sense for reality regarding managers. There are lots of myths there.

Myth 1. New manager must build his team.
No, manager must work with players that he has and make them better with addition of few players. If he thinks that he can't then he simply can refuse a job. In other leagues most of clubs work in a way that manager can't even decide what players will be bought. Not saying that he don't have any input but he can't ask for specific player by name. He says that he needs striker, defender and left back and that is it.

Myth 2. Manager needs time.
Yes he does but not few seasons and which is more important; modern football doesn't work like that. For managers is the same rule as for players; swim or sink.

Myth 3. You can't sack manager every season or two because you will lose stability.
Yes, you can. All big clubs do that. And not just big clubs, every club do it. When things don't work, they change a manager. Look at Bayern, Juve, Chelsea, Inter, Barca, Real...they even sacked managers who just won them titles.

Myth 4. If you give manager time, team will be perfect after few seasons.
That simply is not true. It is like you give playing time to average player and expect from him to be world star. And in manager's world it is even worse because many other things, except his coaching qualities, must click.

My opinion is (while i agree that is great to have one Simeone, Fergie or Wenger) that football is not working like that anymore. Managers (just like players) are expandable today and we should not be afraid to sack and hire managers. That doesn't effect on stability of the club.

Edit ( thanks to @Skills and few other posters ):
Myth 5. Supporting manager = supporting the club
You support the club. And club comes first and second. Manager is just like every player, owner, coach, scout or CEO. Employee of the club. He can be criticised and praised just like everybody else.

Couldn't agree more. To look at Fergie, he started his managerial career at E. Stirling, got them promoted in his 1st season in charge. Went to St. Mirren and won the Scottish Cup in year 2, no mean feat, as they hadn't won a trophy for over 50 years. Aberdeen grabbed him, not only won 2 league titles but also the old Euro Cup Winners Cup.
In stepped Man Utd, and the rest is history.
Max Allegri is still available, grab him before it's too late ( which now seems to be the Board's mantra!)

 

[humiliated]

The approach of the other big clubs is probably the correct one and the results are evident, but the idea of sacking someone who doesn’t deserve to be sacked will always leave a bad taste for me, Ole doesn’t deserve to be sacked, yet anyway.

Not sure I agree, remember Win Janssen at Paradise, he got out purely because of what was not/happening upstairs!

 

[Stretender]

I don't think he has underperformed but on current evidence I dont see Ole taking this team to the next level which is winning trophies.

His team selections are questionable and I think he worships some players like Rashford, Maguire and Pogba.

Ole can not blame everything on Woodward. He is the one who would have told Woodward that Phil Jones and Matic needed their contracts extended. United should have been in the market for a Matic replacement not giving him a new contract. His judgement is questionable and I don't see improvements in players and playing patterns.

Ole was a caretaker manager at best and was given the job on the back of Stretford end singing Ole is at the wheel. Our fans are delusional it's like they think this is the 90's where City are in the division below and Roman Abramovich is still doing politics in Siberia.

Having said all this as much as I don't think he is the right manager for the job , I also do not think if we hired Klopp tomorrow things will change massively because Woodward is still the problem.

I believe Ole will be dismissed this season, his players look uninterested and uninspired, he looks lost himself and the way he navigates the next 6 fixtures will seal his fate.

 

[romufc]

One of the better threads I've read this year.

I can already see a few Ole inners getting defensive , even though this thread isn't particularly about Ole at all.

Another myth to add is that whenever we appoint a new manager, fans seem to think that the new manager has to "rip up the squad and we are back to square one again". Honestly I have no idea where that belief came from. Why is it necessary to "rip up" the squad. A decent/good manager can work with what he's got and implement his tactics on the squad. Our players are professionals and are not robots who are programmed to a certain set of tactics only. A good manager would improve those players and improve the squad further with a few more signings down the road. Really do hate it when someone panics and says, "We shouldn't sack manager X because it will destroy what he has been building and the new manager will just rip it all apart and we are back to square one again!" WTF?

Name me 2 managers over the last 5 years who have been successful without making at least 4 signings after being appointed?

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Have we actually had a good manager since Fergie left? Moyes and Ole are underqualifed but you could make a case for Van Gaal and Mourinho. Now these two have achieved alot but how come we played some really dreadful football under them if they were good? We bought pIayers that were successful elsewhere and came here and failed. We had players leaving these managers and going elsewhere to succeed. So have we actually had a good manager since Fergie left?

 

[Withnail]

One of the better threads I've read this year.

I can already see a few Ole inners getting defensive , even though this thread isn't particularly about Ole at all.

Another myth to add is that whenever we appoint a new manager, fans seem to think that the new manager has to "rip up the squad and we are back to square one again". Honestly I have no idea where that belief came from. Why is it necessary to "rip up" the squad. A decent/good manager can work with what he's got and implement his tactics on the squad. Our players are professionals and are not robots who are programmed to a certain set of tactics only. A good manager would improve those players and improve the squad further with a few more signings down the road. Really do hate it when someone panics and says, "We shouldn't sack manager X because it will destroy what he has been building and the new manager will just rip it all apart and we are back to square one again!" WTF?

When any manager comes in there will be players he finds that he can work with and players he can't.

The ones he deems but suitable for his style, a bad influence or just a type of personality he doesn't want around will be shipped out.

How many times have we heard football people who've been in management state that its too early to judge as he hasn't got his type of players in and put his stamp on the team?

How many elite coaches have come into a club that wasn't doing well and hit the ground running without needed to rebuild?

Now it's no reason to keep a failing manager or if a quality replacement is available but it is a factor to consider if the manager has met his targets or if there isn't a proven elite level manager available.

 

[Siorac]

I have no fear of changing manager but the obsession on here of wanting our manager sacked just because he isn't someone else is pathetic.

Honeslty people moan about how the club is run, but if the caf was in charge we'd have a different manager every two months until we got Pochettino, even if some of them won every single game...and then when we did get Pochettino he'd have to get us relegated before anyone would start admitting he maybe isn't as great as they had envisaged...and then they'd just pick another flavour of the month and the process would start over.

Ole came in with a plan so I'm willing to support him...and the biggest issue, as it was also with Jose, is that the club are letting him down. If we change the manager, the club will do the same thing to the new one. If Ole gets to a point where he has to go then he'll have to go but I really don't know what happens then. Any manager that determined and able to succeed will not come to a club that doesn't allow them to.

What is the plan, and how are the club letting him down? I trust you're not implying that not spending €120m on Jadon Sancho constitutes letting him down.

 

[Skills]

When any manager comes in there will be players he finds that he can work with and players he can't.

The ones he deems but suitable for his style, a bad influence or just a type of personality he doesn't want around will be shipped out.

How many times have we heard football people who've been in management state that its too early to judge as he hasn't got his type of players in and put his stamp on the team?

How many elite coaches have come into a club that wasn't doing well and hit the ground running without needed to rebuild?

Now it's no reason to keep a failing manager or if a quality replacement is available but it is a factor to consider if the manager has met his targets or if there isn't a proven elite level manager available.

Plenty. In the last 10 years, the CL has been won 5 times by a manager in his first season. 3 of those 5, they've come in after a mid season sacking.

 

[Withnail]

Plenty. In the last 10 years, the CL has been won 5 times by a manager in his first season. 3 of those 5, they've come in after a mid season sacking.

Perhaps I wasn't explicit enough in what I meant with regard to underperforming.

How many of those teams were underperforming the previous few seasons or had they rather been successful and hit a slump under the fired manager?

My point is with regard to how it pertains to United who've not been at the top since 2013.

 

[wolvored]

The ones who are saying ole is achieving. What is he achieving? We play good and shit in equal measures. We reached 3 semis, but lost them all. 66 points got him top 3 30 odd points behind the winners but is that an achievement ? We are supposed to be the biggest club in England FFS. Football wise we haven't been top 4 club in the last 7 years. City Chelsea Liverpool even Leicester have taken that away from us

 

[Withnail]

The ones who are saying ole is achieving. What is he achieving? We play good and shit in equal measures. We reached 3 semis, but lost them all. 66 points got him top 3 30 odd points behind the winners but is that an achievement ? We are supposed to be the biggest club in England FFS. Football wise we haven't been top 4 club in the last 7 years. City Chelsea Liverpool even Leicester have taken that away from us

I've been informed this is not under any circumstances an Ole out thread.

 

[Skills]

Perhaps I wasn't explicit enough in what I meant with regard to underperforming.

How many of those teams were underperforming the previous few seasons or had they rather been successful and hit a slump under the fired manager?

My point is with regard to how it pertains to United who've not been at the top since 2013.

Bayern were underperforming under both Ancelotti and Kovac. As soon as they got the correct manager (both Heyneckes and Flick) they became good teams.

The reason they don't underperform for years on end like us is because their fans don't fetishize the managers job. See for them, Bayern Munich being successful is much more important than any single manager being given the chance to 'get it right'

 

[do.ob]

That’s exactly what we’re currently doing though isn’t it?

I don't really see it, Maguire and AWB are both not a straight up fit for progressive football, yet the club paid huge fees for them. So it can't be true for last summer. This summer the club bought their third highly rated C(A)M for €40m, while leaving the holding midfielder role or the spot next to Maguire untouched. Then they were apparently willing to pay top dollar for Sancho, speaking of some short term need for the RW position, but ended up paying €30m for two long term projects for that role.

 

[Bestietom]

I don't think he has underperformed but on current evidence I dont see Ole taking this team to the next level which is winning trophies.

His team selections are questionable and I think he worships some players like Rashford, Maguire and Pogba.

Ole can not blame everything on Woodward. He is the one who would have told Woodward that Phil Jones and Matic needed their contracts extended. United should have been in the market for a Matic replacement not giving him a new contract. His judgement is questionable and I don't see improvements in players and playing patterns.

Ole was a caretaker manager at best and was given the job on the back of Stretford end singing Ole is at the wheel. Our fans are delusional it's like they think this is the 90's where City are in the division below and Roman Abramovich is still doing politics in Siberia.

Having said all this as much as I don't think he is the right manager for the job , I also do not think if we hired Klopp tomorrow things will change massively because Woodward is still the problem.

I believe Ole will be dismissed this season, his players look uninterested and uninspired, he looks lost himself and the way he navigates the next 6 fixtures will seal his fate.

I agree.

 

[Bilbo]

One of the better threads I've read this year.

I can already see a few Ole inners getting defensive , even though this thread isn't particularly about Ole at all.

Another myth to add is that whenever we appoint a new manager, fans seem to think that the new manager has to "rip up the squad and we are back to square one again". Honestly I have no idea where that belief came from. Why is it necessary to "rip up" the squad. A decent/good manager can work with what he's got and implement his tactics on the squad. Our players are professionals and are not robots who are programmed to a certain set of tactics only. A good manager would improve those players and improve the squad further with a few more signings down the road. Really do hate it when someone panics and says, "We shouldn't sack manager X because it will destroy what he has been building and the new manager will just rip it all apart and we are back to square one again!" WTF?

There is nothing wrong with what you are saying here, but I'm not sure that it fully applies to the current situation because it doesn't take into account just how much of a mess our squad was in when Ole took over.

A quick glance down our outgoing transfers tells a significant story. Free transfer, loan, free transfer, loan etc etc. The only even halfway significant fees we have bought in were for Lukaku (at a £10-15m loss depending on where you look) and now Smalling. It wasn't just our current manager that wasn't able to make it work with these players. Nobody else wants them either. We are literally having to give them away, and these are the players that we CAN give away. There are still a half dozen players around the place that we can't get rid of.

Would bringing a new manager in rip us apart and send us backwards? No, not really, not now, but then that's part of the argument on why Ole is being given more time. He is responsible for putting us in that position.

 

[7even]

Cleveland Browns (NFL)has changed head coach four times in the last four seasons.

Hue Jackson. Gregg Williams. Freddie Kitchens. Kevin Stefanski.

In fact eight HC in ten years. Their situation was opposite to ours with owners who regularly sack underperforming coaches and managers without a second of hesitation. The whole organization was for decades a place of chaos and bad results.

In 2020 they hired Andrew Berry as their new General Manager. (similar to DoF) A former scout assistant graduated from Harvard who worked his way up to the highest level at an age of only 32 years old. Together with new head coach Stefanski and chief strategy officer Paul DePodesta, former baseball analyst they have this season transformed the Browns from a chaotic organization to one of the better teams.

In a deeper analyses why they are so much better the answer is quite simple.

First they hired a young and modern HC with a clear strategy how to implement all new ideas. Together they structured all communications where all coaches expected to follow the same guide lines and be on the same page.

It took HC Stefanski one game to prove that his ideas was the right way to move forward.

A limited pre season because of the Pandemic. Most meetings and player communication with Skype or FaceTime.

Five games into the season they are 4-1 and get universally praised because they finally has a long term vision and a winning style.

The lesson to learn is that changes is necessary until you find the right personnel. I also give a lot credit to Andrew Berry who overseers this painful transformation and didn’t give up searching for perfectness because their first, second and even third HC was bad.

Manchester United need a similar transformation.! A DoF to steady the ship and make sure the club has a modern vision, a new chief analyst (head scout) and a new manager who can transform our club and implement new ideas. We need professionalism, not nostalgia or a second hand clone from the past.

We must find our new identity. A modern Manchester United.

Just like a iconic sports car our club must be build with lines from our great history but with new parts, best available technology and forward thinking visions.

 

[Withnail]

Bayern were underperforming under both Ancelotti and Kovac. As soon as they got the correct manager (both Heyneckes and Flick) they became good teams.

The reason they don't underperform for years on end like us is because their fans don't fetishize the managers job. See for them, Bayern Munich being successful is much more important than any single manager being given the chance to 'get it right'

You're having a laugh if you're giving me Bayern and two managers that won the poxy league

How is a well run club like Bayern with a squad of experiencd

 

[Micky Targaryen]

There is nothing wrong with what you are saying here, but I'm not sure that it fully applies to the current situation because it doesn't take into account just how much of a mess our squad was in when Ole took over.

A quick glance down our outgoing transfers tells a significant story. Free transfer, loan, free transfer, loan etc etc. The only even halfway significant fees we have bought in were for Lukaku (at a £10-15m loss depending on where you look) and now Smalling. It wasn't just our current manager that wasn't able to make it work with these players. Nobody else wants them either. We are literally having to give them away, and these are the players that we CAN give away. There are still a half dozen players around the place that we can't get rid of.

Would bringing a new manager in rip us apart and send us backwards? No, not really, not now, but then that's part of the argument on why Ole is being given more time. He is responsible for putting us in that position.

Oh no doubt that our squad was full of deadwood players when Ole came in, I’ll give you that. I wanted Lukaku out too because he wasn’t the type of striker to lead the line for us. That was my opinion. But like I said, this thread isn’t particularly about Ole. I’m speaking generally, it’s not necessary for every new appointment to rip the squad apart and it’s not necessary that every single new managerial appointment would mean back to square one. We just happen to be a big club with big resources, so of course the new manager has the freedom to tear the squad and rebuild to his liking. What I actually meant was that generally a good coach would work with what he’s got and spend within his means , improving the players and the squad along the way. Just because the previous manager was sacked doesn’t have to necessarily mean that the new manager can’t continue the rebuilding.

By the way, I hate that word: Rebuilding

 

[Bestietom]

Oh no doubt that our squad was full of deadwood players when Ole came in, I’ll give you that. I wanted Lukaku out too because he wasn’t the type of striker to lead the line for us. That was my opinion. But like I said, this thread isn’t particularly about Ole. I’m speaking generally, it’s not necessary for every new appointment to rip the squad apart and it’s not necessary that every single new managerial appointment would mean back to square one. We just happen to be a big club with big resources, so of course the new manager has the freedom to tear the squad and rebuild to his liking. What I actually meant was that generally a good coach would work with what he’s got and spend within his means , improving the players and the squad along the way. Just because the previous manager was sacked doesn’t have to necessarily mean that the new manager can’t continue the rebuilding.

By the way, I hate that word: Rebuilding

Lukaku scored for every club he was with, and Martial will never get as many goals for us than he would in a season. He says he was pushed out the door and I believe this. It's gonna cost us Millions to get in a proper CF if Greenwood doesn't make it.

 

[Micky Targaryen]

Lukaku scored for every club he was with, and Martial will never get as many goals for us than he would in a season. He says he was pushed out the door and I believe this. It's gonna cost us Millions to get in a proper CF if Greenwood doesn't make it.

I’ve never really bought into the big target man type of striker like Lukaku. His heavy first touch always frustrated me whenever he killed off our fluid counter attacks. Always have and always will prefer a RVP or Rooney type of forward.

 

[Bestietom]

I’ve never really bought into the big target man type of striker like Lukaku. His heavy first touch always frustrated me whenever he killed off our fluid counter attacks. Always have and always will prefer a RVP or Rooney type of forward.

I respect your opinion mate, but I think that Bruno would have formed up well with Lukaku and fed off him also.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

It's rational to think another managerial change won't help. If we sack Ole the next guy would be the 6th manager in 8 years.

It's clear that the playing squad needs overhauling. We've tinkered around the edges and decided to keep sacking managers but the fact is 80% of the squad are not good enough

 

[James Peril]

Many good points and I completely agree. Every manager needs time if things aren’t going well, but we still need to see evidence of something, true belief that ideas are worked on Time is not the same as positive development regardless. Too much time given to a prospect could be very detrimental for development of players and cohesion, overlearning this and forgetting that.

For Solskjær, I see nothing that makes me want to see it out. Tactically we are going nowhere and we are not getting the best out of our players. Over short spells, definitely yes, generally not over the season. Winning a few fames here and there isn’t impressive with this team! I believe we were at 12 wins in 31 games before the break last season? The team looks lost out there every other game and it’s frightening to see how far away some are from their former selves.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Yep.

 

[Jaqen H'ghar]

Have we actually had a good manager since Fergie left? Moyes and Ole are underqualifed but you could make a case for Van Gaal and Mourinho. Now these two have achieved alot but how come we played some really dreadful football under them if they were good? We bought pIayers that were successful elsewhere and came here and failed. We had players leaving these managers and going elsewhere to succeed. So have we actually had a good manager since Fergie left?

Fair point, until you remember that you're asking those responsible for the previous failures to repeat the cycle.

Hiring bad managers hasn't been their only failure. They haven't recruited players well, be it in terms of quality or money spent. Renewal of contracts has been a farce and they have been unable/unwilling to shift out unwanted players.

Changing the manager at this point feels like a band aid on a gangrene.

The ones he deems but suitable for his style, a bad influence or just a type of personality he doesn't want around will be shipped out.

That's not what's happening unfortunately. The board sided with Pogba over Mourinho, and wouldn't sanction selling Martial. I'm not saying Mourinho was right, but the point is that we have bankers overruling the manager on signing and shipping out players.

Bayern were underperforming under both Ancelotti and Kovac. As soon as they got the correct manager (both Heyneckes and Flick) they became good teams.

The reason they don't underperform for years on end like us is because their fans don't fetishize the managers job. See for them, Bayern Munich being successful is much more important than any single manager being given the chance to 'get it right'

The decisions to sack and appoint managers aren't made by their 'fans', it's made by the board. You can't seriously be comparing the Bayern board to ours?

 

[Bobcat]

One of the better threads I've read this year.

I can already see a few Ole inners getting defensive , even though this thread isn't particularly about Ole at all.

Another myth to add is that whenever we appoint a new manager, fans seem to think that the new manager has to "rip up the squad and we are back to square one again". Honestly I have no idea where that belief came from. Why is it necessary to "rip up" the squad. A decent/good manager can work with what he's got and implement his tactics on the squad. Our players are professionals and are not robots who are programmed to a certain set of tactics only. A good manager would improve those players and improve the squad further with a few more signings down the road. Really do hate it when someone panics and says, "We shouldn't sack manager X because it will destroy what he has been building and the new manager will just rip it all apart and we are back to square one again!" WTF?

But that had to be done in this case.

Lingard, Pereira, Jones, Rojo, Young, Fellaini, Sanchez, Darmian, Lindelof etc.

These players are not part of a league winning squad, at best some could be squad players. Ole got rid of some of the deadwood, but a lot still remains and frankly "working with what you got" is bullshit when you have as lofty goals as we do. No amount of coaching is going to turn Lindgard into KDB

If Poch takes over this side of 2020 i can guarantee you that his most outspoken supporters will claim that he needs better players to compete with Liverpool and City. And they will be completely right, because not a single manager on this planet can turn shit into diamonds

 

[Red71]

Oh no doubt that our squad was full of deadwood players when Ole came in, I’ll give you that. I wanted Lukaku out too because he wasn’t the type of striker to lead the line for us. That was my opinion. But like I said, this thread isn’t particularly about Ole. I’m speaking generally, it’s not necessary for every new appointment to rip the squad apart and it’s not necessary that every single new managerial appointment would mean back to square one. We just happen to be a big club with big resources, so of course the new manager has the freedom to tear the squad and rebuild to his liking. What I actually meant was that generally a good coach would work with what he’s got and spend within his means , improving the players and the squad along the way. Just because the previous manager was sacked doesn’t have to necessarily mean that the new manager can’t continue the rebuilding.

By the way, I hate that word: Rebuilding

I agree with Micky T, this is one of the better threads I’ve read on the Caf in a while, pleasingly free of arguments and full of coherent thoughts…(I’m a bit worried I’m going to ruin it all now! ) I also hate talking about rebuilding by the way…

Myth number whatever it is…nothing much will change if we remove the manager because Woodward is still there and still the problem. The transfer windows continue to (appear to) be a problem granted but what happened to Managers managing day to day i.e. the vast majority of the time? How well the team perform, general play style, patterns, results etc. These are down to the manager, not Woodward. We should be seeing evidence of all these things but I don’t think we are or have been generally (certainly not a combination of those with the last few managers). If one manager can’t get a tune out of their squad, it’s not to say that another couldn’t when you consider the talent in our ranks. There has to be a way of making them look better than the sum of their parts rather than what we’re currently seeing. Woodward isn’t involved in that side of things as far as I know or stopping the coaching team from squeezing out better, more coherent, consistent performances.

Poch seems to be the current flavour of the month so I’ll use him as an example but it could be a number of different coaches. His results/performances with Spurs, notwithstanding the lack of trophies ultimately, is really impressive with their comparative resources and given the fact he had to contend with Levy who is arguably just as much of a pain as Woodward (albeit in a different way).

I suppose the question is always how long is long enough to wait to see clearly demonstrable improvements on a consistent basis rather than 2 steps forward and then 1 or 2 back again or to make the decision that the manager has to be replaced. I don’t think there is a “one size fits all” approach to that unfortunately.

My view, based on what I see now is to make a change. If I had my way, I’d kick Ole upstairs into a DoF role, spinning it as “he’s steadied the ship and we value his contribution, expertise dealing with players, understands the club, what it means to be a United player etc”. Then you get in the best, up and coming manager that you can find who can give us some clear direction and get us playing again, whether that be that Poch (possibly the best choice right now) or whomever.

It could be though that the next few games are pivotal, more for the performance levels than the actual results.

 

[Withnail]

That's not what's happening unfortunately. The board sided with Pogba over Mourinho, and wouldn't sanction selling Martial. I'm not saying Mourinho was right, but the point is that we have bankers overruling the manager on signing and shipping out players.

He tried though didn't he?

He would claim that he would have done better if he was allowed ship those guys out and get Perisic or William or whoever in.

Good managers can work with what they've got but they actively try to build the squad in the image of what they think a team should be like.

If the structure of the club is such that the signings are based on the whim of the manager then you end up with an unbalanced squad.

As I said earlier it's not a problem at a well run club with football people running things who have an over-arching strategy which feeds into player acquisitions.

 

[JohnnyLaw]

I don't really see it, Maguire and AWB are both not a straight up fit for progressive football, yet the club paid huge fees for them. So it can't be true for last summer. This summer the club bought their third highly rated C(A)M for €40m, while leaving the holding midfielder role or the spot next to Maguire untouched. Then they were apparently willing to pay top dollar for Sancho, speaking of some short term need for the RW position, but ended up paying €30m for two long term projects for that role.

I don’t always agree with every signing we make or the priorities by which we make them, but at least we’re signing players at the right age who’ll either benefit the club for a long time to come or have some resale value. We’re also invested alot into our youth setup recruiting players for tomorrow such as Mejbri, Pellestri and Diallo but also Emeran and Meija, Jurado and Carreras.
We also denied Mourinho Peresic, Willian and Boateng who’d have been much more of an issue than Maguire and AWB.

 

[do.ob]

I don’t always agree with every signing we make or the priorities by which we make them, but at least we’re signing players at the right age who’ll either benefit the club for a long time to come or have some resale value. We’re also invested alot into our youth setup recruiting players for tomorrow such as Mejbri, Pellestri and Diallo but also Emeran and Meija, Jurado and Carreras.
We also denied Mourinho Peresic, Willian and Boateng who’d have been much more of an issue than Maguire and AWB.

It just looks random. Between James, Pellestri and Diallo the club has spent around €50m on three players and it's still Greenwood starting it's probably still Sancho high up the short list for next summer.
AWB and Maguire have such distinct weaknesses it's not out of the question that a new coach would like to get rid of both of them and then I wish Woody good luck in trying to recoup anything remotely close to what he paid for them.
That's not good squad management. Good management is signing players who fit your idea so well you don't have to worry about what's going to happen to them if you sack your coach, at least when you spend so much on them. Or better yet sign coaches with such a clear idea of football in mind that one doesn't demand players another would hate.

 

[Class of 63]

We had unique luck that we had Fergie. And because of that most of United fans lost sense for reality regarding managers. There are lots of myths there.

Myth 1. New manager must build his team.
No, manager must work with players that he has and make them better with addition of few players. If he thinks that he can't then he simply can refuse a job.

What you mean like SAF did when he first came down from Scotland? Fergie inherited a far more talented squad than say Ole did, maybe one or two too many piss cans(that was the norm back then, and Liverpool's squad could drink ours under the table)for Fergie's liking, but an extremely talented group nevertheless, yet within 7 months of having the job he(Fergie) nearly finished Martin Edwards off by saying he needed 9 players to turn the squad into a Title winning side, and over the next 2½ seasons he got them and it was still another three seasons later till we reached the promised land, so hardly working with the players he had.

 

[Tarrou]

my fear of replacing the manager is we need changes above the manager and until we make them, every manager is on a hiding to nothing

as much as I have supported Ole and want him to succeed, I'd reluctantly take him falling on his sword if it meant getting rid of Woodward and having a football man running the club instead

the preference being the Glazers feck off too but that seems impossible

I do broadly agree with the OP though

 

[pass.pass.pass]

There needs to be somebody at the club that continually evaluates the job of a manager and his coaches. Instead of instantly thinking of firing someone, somebody has to come to their aid. Is anybody at the club telling Ole that he needs to be more proactive, especially in the coming weeks? That includes not only team selection but also reacting to in-match situations. Is anyone analysing the impact of Ole's subsitutions on a game (or lack thereof) and giving him some insights? Ole himself needs to demand better coaches. Phelan and Carrick are not cutting it.

You get the feeling that none of this is happening at United.

 

[JohnnyLaw]

It just looks random. Between James, Pellestri and Diallo the club has spent around €50m on three players and it's still Greenwood starting it's probably still Sancho high up the short list for next summer.
AWB and Maguire have such distinct weaknesses it's not out of the question that a new coach would like to get rid of both of them and then I wish Woody good luck in trying to recoup anything remotely close to what he paid for them.
That's not good squad management. Good management is signing players who fit your idea so well you don't have to worry about what's going to happen to them if you sack your coach, at least when you spend so much on them. Or better yet sign coaches with such a clear idea of football in mind that one doesn't demand players another would hate.

So when Real does the same thing it shows ’clear long term planning’ wheras when we do it it’s random?
Real spent over a 100m on Reinier, Vinicius and Rodrygo. Three players I doubt most will have heard about before they signed them.

The important thing is that we’re signing long-term options who’ll give us time to finish our project before a new generation needs to be brought through. Maybe you think they’re limited but I doubt that most people would’ve thought we could recoup as much of what we paid for the likes of Lukaku, Di Maria and Schneiderlin.
Of course I understand that Maguire is getting to an age where hos value is likely to drop exponentially year by year so I don’t include him in that but I also don’t think he’s as much of an issue as you, and many others on here do.

 

[Glideman]

Essentially most fans from what I read are just happy to keep sacking managers until we luck out and find one that works.

I just don’t think those fans know how much damage that approach can have, especially in how united is run.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Essentially most fans from what I read are just happy to keep sacking managers until we luck out and find one that works.

I just don’t think those fans know how much damage that approach can have, especially in how united is run.

As i said in OP, it is a myth among United fans. Whole football world works like that. Managers come and go.

 

[tenpoless]

The ones who are saying ole is achieving. What is he achieving? We play good and shit in equal measures. We reached 3 semis, but lost them all. 66 points got him top 3 30 odd points behind the winners but is that an achievement ? We are supposed to be the biggest club in England FFS. Football wise we haven't been top 4 club in the last 7 years. City Chelsea Liverpool even Leicester have taken that away from us

I wonder if this means he's a bottler... seems like that term is reserved only for Poch.

And no, I'm not a Poch fan boy and would be alright with us finishing the season with Ole still in charge.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Essentially most fans from what I read are just happy to keep sacking managers until we luck out and find one that works.

I just don’t think those fans know how much damage that approach can have, especially in how united is run.

People need to factor in that Ed and the Glazers aren't going anywhere and as long as they are here we pretty much have to find a manager that can turn things around and this won't happen if we are sticking with an underperforming manager

 

[Skills]

Essentially most fans from what I read are just happy to keep sacking managers until we luck out and find one that works.

I just don’t think those fans know how much damage that approach can have, especially in how united is run.

I actually think it's the contrary. Our fans vastly underestimate how much damage sticking with an underperforming manager for even half a season can do. It's already cost us £100s of millions in CL income and the ability to attract the right players when they're available.

But it's even more than that. The poorer the managers perform, the more scrutiny is directed towards our own players. It's why we struggle to sell them, because we drag them through the must and nuke our own assets for the whole world to see.