For all the ETH haters. We are generating chances

[Alek M]

Yes I am not happy how we are playing. But there are some clear cut chances that we have created that should be put away. Like every game we should have scored few more from easy chances.

It doesn’t help that Rashford is in terrible form. The same Rashford that couldn’t do wrong last year.

It doesn’t help that Antony has had off the field issues.

It doesn’t help that Hojlund is a new striker in a new league. Give him few more games to settle but he will get going.

There were great chances created against Bayern, Gala and Copenhangen. We need to finish better, not make some terrible basic defensive errors and this season would be whole lot different.

Garnacho has been ineffective when starting. His best is off the bench when defenders are tired. Mount for Antony? Wtf. People asking for Mouth who had a terrible start this season. Mount will het his chances and will be a ood player. We all wanted Pelistri for Antony and we got some bland performances from him.

Eriksen is a great midfielderfor attacking but is terrible defensively and gets pushed out of the way easy.

we tried with one pivot and didn’t work Mount was too isolated.

casemiro has been shit and ETH benched him for Amrabat.

Trust the process and keep the faith. ETH will figure it out.

 

[holdsteady]

People who think he is going to be sacked have lost the plot

 

[Jev]

The stats are against you. You are right in the sense that according to the xG table, we should have 14 goals in the league instead of 11. That still means 12 teams have created more big chances than us. We don't create nearly enough, that's a simple fact.

 

[Teja]

Complete lack of data. 11th in xG this season. 6th in xG last season.

We are most definitely not generating chances expected of a top four team.

 

[bosnian_red]

Nah. What the data says is that we've only "won" the xG 5 times this season out of 13 games.

• Spurs away
• Forest home
• Palace home (cup)
• Palace home
• Brentford home

Of those, only Forest home and the cup game vs Palace did we have an xG difference of greater than 0.5 in our favor.

We lost the xG in the remaining 8 games. 3 of them greater than 0.5xG (Arsenal, Brighton, Bayern in successive games), the remaining 5 were less than 0.5xG.

So out of 13 games, we had 8 where we were within +/- 0.5 xG of the opponent. That's not creating plenty of chances. That's just playing the opponent relatively even, which is really not a good thing when the opponents in those 8 games are Wolves, Spurs (ok), Burnley, palace, Galatasaray, Brentford, Sheffield Utd and Copenhagen. And 5 of those are at home too. If anything, we've had a pretty kind run of games barring the 3 games of Arsenal/Brighton/Bayern. And our analytics are still looking garbage.

 

[SirScholes]

People who think he is going to be sacked have lost the plot

Mid table and probably going to bomb out of a very easy CL group
Not exactly a reach

 

[SirScholes]

Nah. What the data says is that we've only "won" the xG 5 times this season out of 13 games.

• Spurs away
• Forest home
• Palace home (cup)
• Palace home
• Brentford home

Of those, only Forest home and the cup game vs Palace did we have an xG difference of greater than 0.5 in our favor.

We lost the xG in the remaining 8 games. 3 of them greater than 0.5xG (Arsenal, Brighton, Bayern in successive games), the remaining 5 were less than 0.5xG.

So out of 13 games, we had 8 where we were within +/- 0.5 xG of the opponent. That's not creating plenty of chances. That's just playing the opponent relatively even, which is really not a good thing when the opponents in those 8 games are Wolves, Spurs (ok), Burnley, palace, Galatasaray, Brentford, Sheffield Utd and Copenhagen. And 5 of those are at home too. If anything, we've had a pretty kind run of games barring the 3 games of Arsenal/Brighton/Bayern. And our analytics are still looking garbage.

And in two of those games we actually lost the games, which matters more

 

[Borys]

We do generate chances, like Bruno tries to generate a chance every time he gets on the ball, what results in either a goal scoring opportunity (in 'stats' language at least), or a lost ball and turnover.

The whole team is like that at moment, so although we generate chances, we give the same amount of chances away. What would've been OK against sides like Arsenal, Tottenham, City, but we do it against Copenhagen, Sheffield, Brentford. That means, there's something seriously wrong with the way we play.

I thought ETH always had a lot of excuses (players being unavailable and such) , but since yesterday I question his ideas and plan. To be specific, I thought we're saving Mount to play him with Eriksen in place of Bruno and McTominay. You can imagine how surprised I was to learn both McTominay and Bruno apparently earned themselves another start.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Complete lack of data. 11th in xG this season. 6th in xG last season.

We are most definitely not generating chances expected of a top four team.

This. We were just about ok last season, when the chances created were genuinely good ones too, but lacked finishing.

This season we've neither chance creation, nor finishing.

 

[DJ_21]

It still doesn’t change the fact that teams like sheff united and Copenhagen are going toe to toe with with us. Top teams dominate these games and score about 3+goals. The players aren’t listening to ETH methods obviously. Last season we seen glimpses of it now this season where we’re meant to be better, we’ve got worse. The off field stuff is obviously affecting the team and I don’t think some of them are playing for ETH.

 

[Borys]

It still doesn’t change the fact that teams like sheff united and Copenhagen are going toe to toe with with us. Top teams dominate these games and score about 3+goals. The players aren’t listening to ETH methods obviously. Last season we seen glimpses of it now this season where we’re meant to be better, we’ve got worse. The off field stuff is obviously affecting the team and I don’t think some of them are playing for ETH.

Obviously? I don't see anything obvious here, apart from the fact ETH is trying to squeeze players into roles that are unnatural to them and make us unbalanced in midfield.

McTominay spend the first half as second striker yesterday, and moved to midfield in second half to partner Eriksen. Bruno had unspecified role in first half (what was he? #8? I don't know), then moved to his primary lone #10 role and did well.
We do ok when ETH is not trying to be too smart.

 

[Jeffthered]

We do generate chances, like Bruno tries to generate a chance every time he gets on the ball, what results in either a goal scoring opportunity (in 'stats' language at least), or a lost ball and turnover.

The whole team is like that at moment, so although we generate chances, we give the same amount of chances away. What would've been OK against sides like Arsenal, Tottenham, City, but we do it against Copenhagen, Sheffield, Brentford. That means, there's something seriously wrong with the way we play.

I thought ETH always had a lot of excuses (players being unavailable and such) , but since yesterday I question his ideas and plan. To be specific, I thought we're saving Mount to play him with Eriksen in place of Bruno and McTominay. You can imagine how surprised I was to learn both McTominay and Bruno apparently earned themselves another start.

Prior to last night, Scott McTominay had scored three in two games (all of our goals in those two games..) and you were surprised he was given a start? Maybe you should consider that.

I worry about the understanding and expectations of our fan base. It seems some cannot just watch us and draw a conclusion onhow we are playing... you don't need .xg stats to understand where we are and why. We create a few chances, but no team, nor set of players take all their chances. Our attackers aren't the most clinical, so that's one thing. Secondly, our general play is poor, that's obvious, undeniable. ETH needs to understand what his preferred team is, because he doesn't know, nor where he wants players to play. Where does Bruno play? Where does Ericksen play? Can you play them both together? Does Amrabat play alongside Casimero? Or is he another player (like Mount) who we have no idea how he will contribute the team on a consistent basis? Antony is so average, yet you quote his off field issues. Can't you see that this is simply an average player, at best! Rashford has lost form, and could do with a rest. But does ETH do so? Of course not... Rashford and Bruno are 'undroppable' as some have stated on here, and it causes problems.

Yes, we create some clear-cut chances, some half-chances. But not many... did you watch our game against the mighty Sheffield United? I didn't see many chances there. But some teams go there and take them apart. And now we have Newcastle, Brighton, now Spurs, Villa... all these teams create chances because of the way, rather than despite, the way they play.

ETH is struggling because in my opinion, after a year and bit in charge, he doesn't know how to get us playing in a coherent, effective system. The Premiership is too much for him and he has found his level. He's no great coach, not at all. It's obvious, so, so very obvious. ETH will not get better, we're just hoping for a moment during a game. We were playing FC Copenhagen!!! I'm not sure whether they have ever won a game in England? Same with Galatasary. We are struggling against anyone we play. I'm fed up with it and have seen enough. Going nowhere with ETH.

 

[MADReaLJL]

The worrying thing is most of our big chances were created by counterattack, this is where Bruno excels. If we play possession based game, we seem to cycle the ball sideways all the way.

 

[saivet]

As others have said, the stats don't back up the OP's claim. We're not efficient in scoring chances but the issue is we're not creating enough in general. This isn't a side that is creating chances for fun but constantly fluffing their lines.

We're simply average at creating and finishing chances compared to other top teams.

 

[Butty19]

The XG argument is a bit floored in my opinion as XG is only the final outcome of the attack (difficulty of the final chance) as I understand. It doesn’t take into account the good attacking positions we get into and the poor decisions made by our forwards, heavy touches, bad final pass etc.

 

[Champ]

The XG argument is a bit floored in my opinion as XG is only the final outcome of the attack (difficulty of the final chance) as I understand. It doesn’t take into account the good attacking positions we get into and the poor decisions made by our forwards, heavy touches, bad final pass etc.

And also will show Copenhagen having a greater expected goals than us last night due to the penalty for example.
That usually adds around 0.75 to the expected goals mark.
Likewise Sheffield United who had a better expected goals due to the penalty.
Which is the reason why it shouldn't be used as a game by game measure, only really as a season end measurement.

 

[bosniamanutd]

We are generating my ass. Dreaming high but in real, we are awful

 

[Withnail]

The XG argument is a bit floored in my opinion as XG is only the final outcome of the attack (difficulty of the final chance) as I understand. It doesn’t take into account the good attacking positions we get into and the poor decisions made by our forwards, heavy touches, bad final pass etc.

Well that's correct to an extent as both Rashford and Garnacho failed to get a shot away due to a bad touch when put through. However, far too often we can't get the final ball right in order to create an opportunity for a shot when we do have opportunities to attack the opposition.

 

[crossy1686]

We aren't creating chances. We have a few half chances every game but the way we're set up means our forwards do nothing but run around acting busy.

 

[norm87cro]

People who think he is going to be sacked have lost the plot

I dont think he WILL be sacked I think he SHOULD be sacked but wont

 

[Leftback99]

If you think we create a lot of chances, watch some other teams, you'll be amazed.

 

[Borys]

Prior to last night, Scott McTominay had scored three in two games (all of our goals in those two games..) and you were surprised he was given a start? Maybe you should consider that.

I worry about the understanding and expectations of our fan base. It seems some cannot just watch us and draw a conclusion onhow we are playing... you don't need .xg stats to understand where we are and why. We create a few chances, but no team, nor set of players take all their chances. Our attackers aren't the most clinical, so that's one thing. Secondly, our general play is poor, that's obvious, undeniable. ETH needs to understand what his preferred team is, because he doesn't know, nor where he wants players to play. Where does Bruno play? Where does Ericksen play? Can you play them both together? Does Amrabat play alongside Casimero? Or is he another player (like Mount) who we have no idea how he will contribute the team on a consistent basis? Antony is so average, yet you quote his off field issues. Can't you see that this is simply an average player, at best! Rashford has lost form, and could do with a rest. But does ETH do so? Of course not... Rashford and Bruno are 'undroppable' as some have stated on here, and it causes problems.

Yes, we create some clear-cut chances, some half-chances. But not many... did you watch our game against the mighty Sheffield United? I didn't see many chances there. But some teams go there and take them apart. And now we have Newcastle, Brighton, now Spurs, Villa... all these teams create chances because of the way, rather than despite, the way they play.

ETH is struggling because in my opinion, after a year and bit in charge, he doesn't know how to get us playing in a coherent, effective system. The Premiership is too much for him and he has found his level. He's no great coach, not at all. It's obvious, so, so very obvious. ETH will not get better, we're just hoping for a moment during a game. We were playing FC Copenhagen!!! I'm not sure whether they have ever won a game in England? Same with Galatasary. We are struggling against anyone we play. I'm fed up with it and have seen enough. Going nowhere with ETH.

Do we really need to go into McTominay discussion again? Playing him (as a second striker basically) means we're effectively man down in midfield (was it 9 passes against Sheffield in 60 minutes?). He is a good poacher, we might as well throw in Martial and Garnacho if the idea is to lump the ball forward to feed them with scraps, hoping the ball will fall into their feet. This isn't far from what we're doing by the way. Not to mention McTominay caused 2 penalties in 2 games. So yes, I am surprised McTominay is being picked.

Regarding the rest of the post and the rant, especially the bolded part, I think you've mistaken me with somebody else. Not once I mentioned Antony in this thread, and what's funny, I agree with everything in your post.

 

[Gordon S]

We need to finish better, not make some terrible basic defensive errors and this season would be whole lot different

I think this could be said by any fan, of any club really...

 

[justsomebloke]

Complete lack of data. 11th in xG this season. 6th in xG last season.

We are most definitely not generating chances expected of a top four team.

This is unfortunately true. The underlying numbers and overall performance tell exactly the same story as the points haul and goals cored and allowed: Mid-table team. But I still agree with the OP conclusion - trust the process and keep the faith. Not much else to do really.

 

[justsomebloke]

Do we really need to go into McTominay discussion again? Playing him (as a second striker basically) means we're effectively man down in midfield (was it 9 passes against Sheffield in 60 minutes?). He is a good poacher, we might as well throw in Martial and Garnacho if the idea is to lump the ball forward to feed them with scraps, hoping the ball will fall into their feet. This isn't far from what we're doing by the way. Not to mention McTominay caused 2 penalties in 2 games. So yes, I am surprised McTominay is being picked.

Regarding the rest of the post and the rant, especially the bolded part, I think you've mistaken me with somebody else. Not once I mentioned Antony in this thread, and what's funny, I agree with everything in your post.

I am shocked that McTominay is picked. If our best bet at this point is really fill one of two spots in our most troubled area of the pitch with someone who is basically just a late runner into the box, then what does that say about us.

 

[DJ_21]

Obviously? I don't see anything obvious here, apart from the fact ETH is trying to squeeze players into roles that are unnatural to them and make us unbalanced in midfield.

McTominay spend the first half as second striker yesterday, and moved to midfield in second half to partner Eriksen. Bruno had unspecified role in first half (what was he? #8? I don't know), then moved to his primary lone #10 role and did well.
We do ok when ETH is not trying to be too smart.

To be fair to ETH though, he did mention last night that we’re having to chop and change defence and midfielder so the patterns of play and routines have gone and we look a lot more wide open. He said last year we had a solid defence with Martinez and Varane with an inform Casemiro in front of them. You’re right though, he should stick to the basics, play everyone in their best positions.

 

[AndySmith1990]

"Ten Hag haters"

Do people who say stuff like this not realise how juvenile it sounds? It's like you can't handle debate or criticism and your only way to respond is by writing it off as the person having a personal agenda

 

[Skills]

Posts like the OP just continue to highlight how inept sections of our fanbase is at understanding football.

The back the manager crowd is unfortunately the dimmest sect in our fanbase but also the loudest. Too many loud voices in our fanbase that are just constantly wrong and fuel the wrong narrative.

 

[OrcaFat]

We are creating a few chances and it would certainly help if we could start converting them.

We also create a lot of “opportunities” where we get into dangerous areas and should create goalscoring chances from there but we make the wrong decisions or our movement isn’t right. This is through lack of developed routines between the front players (and poor form and, unfortunately, questionable basic ability).

 

[Kostov]

Lack of standards and bad eyesight. You don't even need the stats to see that WE ARE NOT GENERATING much chances, never mind quality chances. Crap football all around no sugar coating.

 

[OrcaFat]

Posts like the OP just continue to highlight how inept sections of our fanbase is at understanding football.

The back the manager crowd is unfortunately the dimmest sect in our fanbase but also the loudest. Too many loud voices in our fanbase that are just constantly wrong and fuel the wrong narrative.

Me dim. Me not understand. Me not… oh look, mama, a rainbow!

 

[ColvaleGoa]

Anyone remember the Spurs game last year? We were absolutely sublime, I don't know what went wrong ..but I long for us to play like that again. We could do it but everything just seems to be off at the moment.

Maybe EtH just has bunkered down and is playing Van Gaal football to just ride this ugly wave out. Just stay in job till we get some fresh investments maybe. But signs are we will need a bunker to hide in on Sunday.

 

[stefan92]

Well that's correct to an extent as both Rashford and Garnacho failed to get a shot away due to a bad touch when put through. However, far too often we can't get the final ball right in order to create an opportunity for a shot when we do have opportunities to attack the opposition.

Yes, one could say that the problem isn't really that United are wasting chances to score a goal (they do, but just a bit), but that they waste chances to play a through ball or final pass or cross at the right time. Position play isn't that bad at the moment I think, but either the players don't understand what to do or lack the skills to do the right thing at the right time (which can be a combination as someone who isn't natural to a certain role likely doesn't do the right thing instinctively there).

And I doubt that the players used for certain positions in that system have the right profile to fulfill the role they should and that's on the manager.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

Stopped reading at 'haters'.

The football, the lack of patterns, the lack of a style is very concerning.

Injuries or not, the best managers impose an identity on their players, from No1 to no25. It's not much to ask after 15 months in the job and lots of financial backing.

 

[TomSkalle]

We dont look like a good team, our players dont stand out, and key playes are out of form.

Ill rather ask another question.
How have we ended up with a squad like this?
Look at the squad player for player and ask yourself if we are better than the other top 6 teams.
With all the money spendt?

We get Ten Hag and i was really glad we did, dont get me wrong, but why does he get to choose players to buy without any involment from leadership?
And look at where we are now?
Why dont we have a Director of Fotball with a team dedicated to making these decisions?
Im not saying the manager shouldnt be involved, but we are looking like a club run by clowns atm.
How is it possible?

A club with uniteds resources and this squad is what we have gotten out of it?
Rashford our star player?
Really?

And no we didnt play a good game yesterday, Copenhagen played a good away game and how the game turned out was unlucky that they didnt get more out of the game.

 

[Sarni]

We really are not, that's the problem. I see people convincing themselves it was a hugely dominant performance yesterday where we should have won 4,5,6-0, I really don't know what game they were watching.

 

[Sweet Square]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Smores]

The only logic that makes the OP make sense is if there's an expectations that players finish every good chance. No team does that and if they do it's a purple patch. Chance creation is about volume and we don't create enough to allow standard misses to not be hurtful.

Behind that every facet of our play is poor. The idea Ten Hag is just being let down by bad finishing is absurd.

 

[Idxomer]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Well, they had a penalty with a 0.8 xG and United had two great chances not calculated in the xG.

The team don't generate enough chances in general though. I think there were only 4 games this season when we did that and deserved to win, Spurs, Nottingham, yesterday and the league cup game. 4 out of 13 which is nowhere near good enough.

 

[BellionsBalloon]

It still doesn’t change the fact that teams like sheff united and Copenhagen are going toe to toe with with us. Top teams dominate these games and score about 3+goals. The players aren’t listening to ETH methods obviously. Last season we seen glimpses of it now this season where we’re meant to be better, we’ve got worse. The off field stuff is obviously affecting the team and I don’t think some of them are playing for ETH.

Spurs scored in the 98th and 100th minute to get the points at Sheffield United and Man City scored an 88th minute winner there too for some perspective on the "Top teams dominate these games and score about 3+ goals".