Former players doing well

Of course fan rumblings impacts player performances. You can clearly see how someone like Garnacho this year has been hurt by the online nonsense.
That says more about Garnacho. Some players are obsessed with reading negative comments about themselves online and gettin into tit for tat bollocks. They never interact or respond with all the positive comments.. funny that…

But regardless there’s no discernible evidence that it affects players performances in general.

And I’d further state if any player is reading this forum and negative criticism of them is effecting their game they’re probably better off getting a job in retail or something.
 
That's positive pressure though - pushing towards success. The goal is clear, the target is set, and the players desperately want to achieve it. We want to win because winning would be great.

We don't have that. We were finishing second and third not long ago and it was a disaster then too, with everyone shite and needing to be replaced. Had we beaten Spurs we'd have had a barbeque, not a parade, because here you can win trophies and still be considered an utter failure who doesn't deserve to enjoy any successes. Just don't fail because failure will be terrible.

It's the difference between being inspired and being threatened.

I dunno man. You’re reflecting back what was going on in an online football forum. Our matchgoing fans seem a lot more forgiving than most. We don’t have ultras chasing players into their dressing rooms during mediocre seasons, that’s for damn sure! Didn’t a Serie A player recently get forced to do a Game of Thrones shame walk in his underpants recently? Now that is fan pressure in action and it sure as shit wasn’t “positive pressure”

Now I’ve no idea what the vibe is on napolicafe.net when their club underachieves but I doubt it’s all good vibes and supportive words.
 
a bit of mismanagament plus the simple fact that EPL is simply a less forgivable league. getting back to top 4 in England is tough and all the moves on the market we're doing, stupid or smart ones, are direct result of that.

in any other league we're having a much better season/position, managers would be under less pressure and there wouldn't be need for open heart sugeries every two years.

at our worst in years, we scored 7 goals vs top 4 club from Spain and 7 goals vs top 4 club from France. we would have done the same to Lazio or any other Italian club if they were good enough to go that far in EL.

our ex players are playing well in the best 2 teams in league in which there are very few good teams left. swap the teams, keep Amorim/ETH and all the current players, I'm sure we would be just fine in Italy even with current players.

and fans of other underperforming EPL clubs would be asking how come their strikers can't do what Zirk can in Italy.
 
With Lukaku, he was still basically a 1 in 2 striker for us. We just moved him on because we felt like he wasn't good enough for what we wanted to be, went missing in big games and had clear limitations but he's always been a reliable scorer and was so here as well. Now he walks in, and generally suits Amorim's team as a CF than he did Ole's and how Ole wanted to build around Rashford
 
We're just playing in the wrong league. The sooner we transfer to Serie A the better. That league seems to be our level of pace and quality.
 
I dunno man. You’re reflecting back what was going on in an online football forum. Our matchgoing fans seem a lot more forgiving than most. We don’t have ultras chasing players into their dressing rooms during mediocre seasons, that’s for damn sure! Didn’t a Serie A player recently get forced to do a Game of Thrones shame walk in his underpants recently? Now that is fan pressure in action and it sure as shit wasn’t “positive pressure”

Now I’ve no idea what the vibe is on napolicafe.net when their club underachieves but I doubt it’s all good vibes and supportive words.
:lol: I hadn't heard that and yeah you're probably right. Still, I do often feel empathy for some of our players in that it must feel as though they can't possibly "win" no matter what they do. But certainly some elsewhere have it much worse in terms of just how bad it can get. It's why I'm not a professional footballer. That and an overwhelming lack of talent.

My question now, though, is how good can it get at United? I expect that plenty of professional athletes are aware that they'll have to take crushing lows along with soaring highs. We may offer middling lows compared to many clubs, but where are the highs? If winning trophies is just okay, is that really enough for these guys to take even the mildly depressing lows? The only carrot on offer is money and that doesn't mean anything to these people.
 
Elanga, McT, Antony, Wan Bissaka, De Gea, Greenwood and Rashford will be followed by Højlund, Garnacho, Mainoo and Eriksen doing well somewhere else next season.

It is not about pressure. Spain and Italy are on PL level when it comes to fan expectations. It´s about trust and system and your role in it.

Our squad simply does not fit Amorims ideas. We need lots of running power and physicality to play Amorim-ball and we don´t have that.

We need a sweeper keeper who controls the area and think fast in transitions. Onana is not the guy to do that. New keeper needed.

We need fast at least two and strong cb´s to stand high and help pressing without getting caught in transitions. Yoro fits, Heaven might fit but is too green as of now. Martinez, De Light and Harry lacks the necessary speed. Same goes for Lindelof and Shaw. We can play one of them, but not two. We need at least one CB.

Wingbacks: Here we need the full package. Defensively sound fullbacks with speed and physicality, able to carry the ball forwards, take on a man and crossing the ball into danger areas. Dalot, Dorgu and Amad are all capable of doing most of these things well, but none of them are the world class players needed to fit the bill. I don´t think there are ten players in the world able to do this on the level we need. We cannot afford the players suited to do this, but we need two of them to aspire for greatness. Amass is a full back.

The pivot: A ball winning , aggressive player who can play a pass and control the game and a ball winning player, who can progress the ball and play vertical passes on a high level. Both needs a big engine. Ugarte is tailor made for the first role, but we need the second player badly. It is Eriksen with legs and ball winning qualities, but who can do that at a cos we are able to afford? Bruno is not physical or fast enough. Mainoo is also too slow and his passing is not good enough either. Casemiro is suited for the Ugarte role, but on his last legs. Collier is back up at this point. We need a KdB-type player.

The OMs: Pressing machines who can shoot, play vertical passes and score goals. Mount is the closest we get, but he is fit for 10 games a season. Garnacho is shoehorned in. Bruno lacks the pace. Eriksen lacks pressing skills. Only Amad fits the bill. We need Cunha here.

Striker: Hold up play with two cbs at his back must be world class. He should be able to be the physical Ibra-player in the box. Gyokeres would work, if we get him.

Total buys: a Keeper, a CB, an 8, 2 WBs, an OM, a striker. That is seven players. Seven!

It really comes down to replacing most of the squad or Amorim. As we are in lack of funding, the answer is easy. We cannot buy seven quality players, for Amorim, not even if we sell Bruno, Mainoo, Garnacho and Casemiro.

Hire Thomas Frank and get Rashford and Antony back to the club.

Sell Bruno, Lindelof, Onana and Casemiro. Eriksen is gone as well.

Loan out Rasmus, Amass and Frederickson.

Go for Gyokeres, Cunha, Flekken and Damsgaard.


The we would look something like this:

------------------------Flekken------------------------

Dalot---------De Ligt-----Yoro--------Dorgu-

--------Mainoo---Ugarte---Damsgaard-----

---Amad---------Gyokeres---------Cunha------
 
We're just playing in the wrong league. The sooner we transfer to Serie A the better. That league seems to be our level of pace and quality.
Yeah I mean look at Lukaku’s second stint at Chelsea and it tells you all you need to know. And as much as I admire McT’s drive and professionalism his winning POTY in Serie A is a reflection of where that league currently stands in comparison to the Prem.
 
I dunno man. You’re reflecting back what was going on in an online football forum. Our matchgoing fans seem a lot more forgiving than most. We don’t have ultras chasing players into their dressing rooms during mediocre seasons, that’s for damn sure! Didn’t a Serie A player recently get forced to do a Game of Thrones shame walk in his underpants recently? Now that is fan pressure in action and it sure as shit wasn’t “positive pressure”

Now I’ve no idea what the vibe is on napolicafe.net when their club underachieves but I doubt it’s all good vibes and supportive words.
At Napoli then pressure is local and through a rabid will to win. Not a feeling of lost or spoiled entitlement. The local element is key. Our match goer are wonderfully supportive.

Throw in the win for any global media outlet who publishes anything negative about United and you have the fuel to keep the drama and pressure perpetual.
 
Thinking about McT’s (and Lukaku’s) exploits last night got me thinking about why players can leave United and look much better in a different club/league.

I think it’s just the simple fact that every player looks better in a successful team than a failing one. So you could take most of our squad, parachute them into a good team, under a winning manager and they would look like a far better player than they do at United.

For this to not be true we’d need examples of players that leave United, go to a mid to bottom half of the table team and look like a much improved version of the player we knew? Has anyone got any examples of this happening?

For the record, I’m delighted for McT and don’t want to belittle his achievement but can’t get past the fact that Lukaku is having a similarly great season after ending up playing for a club/manager that has built a successful team which he can slot into. And nobody would have claimed we fecked up by letting Lukaku leave before now.

It’s notable now but it’s the opposite of a couple of years ago where we had a bunch of players who seemingly had lost interest in football entirely or taken a huge step down eg

Lingard - without a club for ages then ended up in South Korea
De Gea - no club for a year
Pogba - goes running back to his old club, it works out terribly
Brandon Williams - bounces about a bit and nearly goes to prison
Martial - Greek obscurity

There are possibly others I’m forgetting

I think the change is PRS driven, as we’re being forced to move on players with actual value.

Meanwhile we’re stuck with overpaid useless players we can’t shift as their contracts run down

Also the idea cited on thread that the pressure of playing for Napoli is comparable to United is ludicrous. Everything from points dropped to rat droppings in the kitchen is headline news, and not only are we hated by everyone even our own fans and ex players can’t help constantly criticising us.
 
Absolute bollocks.

I see you’ve later said online, which @Eddy_JukeZ has pointed out is simply a general social media thing. How people are still linking fan rumblings on fan forums to players performances is beyond me.
United players and managers get off lightly.

That in itself might be a bit of the problem.

I’ve posted this on this forum before because of people spouting what you’re spouting ..

This is Lyon ultras, openly giving a massive dressing down to Lyon players on the fecking pitch after underperformance.


I think you're massively missing the point here... When Saka/Rashford/Sancho missed their penalties, where did they get abused? In the stadium? On online forums? No, on their social medias, instagram etc. It's that kind of pressure we're talking about. And I do believe that that kind of pressure is higher at United than any other club (perhaps bar Real Madrid).
 
I think you're massively missing the point here... When Saka/Rashford/Sancho missed their penalties, where did they get abused? In the stadium? On online forums? No, on their social medias, instagram etc. It's that kind of pressure we're talking about. And I do believe that that kind of pressure is higher at United than any other club (perhaps bar Real Madrid).
gotta be honest I’m tired and bored of social media bollocks being used as a reason for our players underperforming or playing under pressure. Social media is a cesspit of insignificant shite. Why is everyone so obsessed with it? Why does everyone think it matters? It’s a topic done to death.

We’re talking about Premier League players. The best in class. I can’t accept that random usernames posting shite from around the world is having such a detrimental effect on their ability to do their jobs and I’m confident that it doesn’t anyway.
When these players walk out onto the pitch they get relentless support from 70,000 people for the most part. The idea that they’re worried about ‘skankhunt69’ on twitter calling them a shit cnut is fanciful.
That is the pressure, them having to perform on that pitch in front of those fans. feck all to do with shite online.
As poor as our players have been this season, give them some credit.
 
United has always been a difficult club to play for. Long before social media, we had a series of high profile signings (particularly strikers) who wilted at Old Trafford. I don’t buy the unsupportive fan base argument - it’s rather the size of the fanbase encourages the intense (traditional and social) media scrutiny.

As for current examples like McT, it’s probably a reflection of the relative weakness of Serie A and the dysfunction of various United managerial regimes compared to playing for a serial winner like Conte.
 
It's quite simple, the players that have left/on loan are all good players, put them in functioning teams and they will play well and show their qualities.

Will McTominay ever be a world beater? No, but he is a quality player and is showing that now.
Is Antony worth £80m? Hell no, but he's also a quality player and is showing that now.
Is Rashford lazy? Definitely not, and has been showing that recently until his injury.
 
I would say there are three main reasons for that.

First, players feel the pressure of playing for one of the biggest clubs in the world—if not the biggest. Second, United is currently surrounded by a negative atmosphere, and many players are struggling. Third, and most importantly, United is not a functional team. We have players who don't complement each other, and a coach whose style doesn’t align with the strengths of most of the squad.

When we were playing low-block, quick-transition football, players like Bruno, Rashford, Garnacho, Maguire, and De Gea thrived.

The fact that former players are doing well elsewhere is actually positive—it suggests that the talent is there and could help boost the perceived value of those still at the club.
 
The pressure to play for United is incredible, I think the scouts need to look more at not just pure talent or ability but the right mentality. The media attention is like nothing else in England and only maybe El Clasico teams can compare in Europe. There’s a whole media industrial complex of just talking about Man United. Every little thing you do is scrutinised.

You see the likes of Casemiro in his first season, Ibrahimovic and Cavani that come here and make an instant impact because they have the personality for it. Unfortunately they all came past their best.

Too many players just collapse under the pressure, Sancho a notable one. I’ll always remember Schneiderlin, looked a perfect signing, a beast for Southampton and ready to make the move up. Just completely bottled it here and was so underwhelming. It’s hard to overcome that but maybe just identifying psychological profiles and getting to know players better before they’re bought could be a start.
 
Absolute bollocks.

I see you’ve later said online, which @Eddy_JukeZ has pointed out is simply a general social media thing. How people are still linking fan rumblings on fan forums to players performances is beyond me.
United players and managers get off lightly.

That in itself might be a bit of the problem.

I’ve posted this on this forum before because of people spouting what you’re spouting ..

This is Lyon ultras, openly giving a massive dressing down to Lyon players on the fecking pitch after underperformance.


Going off tangent for a bit.

I know it won’t happen, but this is what our players need after the match vs Villa tomorrow
 
It's not the players. It's not the managers. It's the owners. United is a rudderless, bloated hulk, still floating... backwards as scavengers pick at it. Many are profiting off of this business model which only coincidentally has to do with football. That's not to say players, agents, managers and others who see an obvious opportunity to enrich themselves aren't taking what they can. When the ATM closes, the owners and other mercenaries leave. We will be relegated and win the Championship before anything else. Maybe that giant promotion payment is the Glazers goal. I'll continue to strike the team until they leave. It's the only way things will EVER improve. I love the club and have supported it for over 30 years but will not participate in this hostage situation.