Former POTUS George H W Bush Dies aged 94
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
- Start date
Thoughts and prayers.
That's what you say when there's death and you don't really care right?
That's what you say when there's death and you don't really care right?
Indeed. Politicians aren't random abstract people but instead figures whose actions have the potential to transform and destroy lives. Being able to sit back and respect Bush is something you're probably not going to be able to do if you're someone whose life was destroyed by policy decisions he took.
For what it's worth he comfortably ranks better than some of the Republican Presidents who have come before and after him, and he probably was a lot wiser than his son or Trump, but arguments about how all US Presidents end up costing lives to an extent tend not to work when you consider that the US has found it alright to view blacks as inferior people for the majority of its history as a nation, at least from a legal standpoint. Important politicians are probably going to make decisions that have an adverse effect on others no matter how well-intentioned they are, but then Bush himself is on record as not really showing any remorse or sympathy for his actions in the past. He's hardly an impartial political actor who was genuinely striving for a better world.
Not to mention a lot of the fairly shady stories about his fondness for groping etc. Certainly not someone to be celebrated.
Forgot about the Willie Horton ad.
This is a great, disrespectful post. Hope you don't get banned for it.
Snitch
It's really weird that people have a problem with calling a piece of shit, a piece of shit, just because they've died.
It was a long time coming. Sitting out a couple of days will do him good.
What did he actually say that was ban-worthy? Bush is hardly someone particularly deserving of reverence or respect.
You can read.
Well said!
Why is Bush so hated? Genuinely curious, would like to see why people hate him (as if what policies he had that makes them hate him)?
He kind of lost to Clinton when I was born so I don't know too much about him? Was he really bad or it is because he was W's father?
He kind of lost to Clinton when I was born so I don't know too much about him? Was he really bad or it is because he was W's father?
I've mixed feelings with what I said. You can't always Not Speak Ill of the Dead. For me as I said Thatcher wouldn't have seen a polite word from me, I always wanted to dance on her grave, I despised her. Can anyone imagine polite discourse on the thread about Jimmy Saville? When some one has been an obvious scumbag, and in this case not my country so I don't know how a native would react, it would be hard for everyone to hold to a standard.
I've been thinking that we usually have RIPs etc on the thread on the General while the truth comes out - well hopefully on the Current, definitely debate anyway.
Anyway, we don't always understand why and how the mods have applied a temporary ban, it may not specifically have been for one post in this thread but more of a totting up because @Sultan said that GIFs aren't normally acceptable on the Current.
I agree with this. I think some lines are greyer than others. Saville, Trump, Hitler, and many others have proven themselves to be bad human beings. I don't think most people would take issue with speaking ill of them in life or death.
Other people, Bush, Hillary, Harper, Thatcher, and many other politicians/people may have enacted policy that was bad for many people and appeared (or was) evil, but were those decisions borne out of being a bad person or out of doing what they thought was right at the time? I don't know. In the case of Bush Senior I don't know enough about him to form an opinion on the matter. Lines are grey and unless I really know enough about that person i won't speak ill of them unless I've deemed them a bad person, and of course that is a completely subjective and possibly arbitrary position to take.
He generally isn't.
Only by the far left, to the best of my knowledge.
It's the 'Caf mate, as another thread puts it: Something of a liberal echo chamber.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a bit more liberal than I used to be, but some of the leftist attitudes to (relatively) moderate right wingers tends to be a bit kneejerk.
Now don't get me wrong, I liked Obama in the main; but he dropped more bombs than his predecessor - and you won't hear him being slated as a warmonger or butcher in here, wrong narrative.
Bush thread edit.
I've read it in this forum, don't ask me to find it.
Bush thread edit 2.
Commentator pissing all over United and called Woodward and Mourinho the worst strike partnership in football (or something along those lines)
Get out of here
I apologize! I thought I was on the matchday thread. I don't know how to delete those posts. I use Redcafe in my phone so sometimes get threads mixed upGet out of here
Have you not read the thoughts of @Eboue on the current state of the Dems? He's heavily critical of Obama and co, as are a number of left-wingers here.
I'm a fan of both to be fair.
Commentator pissing all over United and called Woodward and Mourinho the worst strike partnership in football (or something along those lines)
Surprised Trump will attend. Even more surprised markets will be closed
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H.W was complicit in decades of immoral, and occasionally illegal, US conduct, before, during and after his Presidency. To my eyes, the fact that he caused death and misery through the power allotted him by the offices he held rather with his bare hands doesn't mean his hands are clean, nor do I think his achievements justify his disgraces. I'm not glad he died, but I sure as hell don't wish for him to 'rest in peace'. In my opinion he doesn't deserve it.
I think that's normal. Closed for JFK, Nixon, Ford even Martin Luther King funeral.
No US President's "hands are clean". Its part and parcel of the POTUS job.
Then it shouldn’t be expected of people to respect those, even in death.
I don't think anyone expects that. It it is what it is. The good and the bad can both be discussed in a grown up way.
Sure, all US presidents, by the nature of thir job are involved in illegal actions upto war crimes. The Bushes have some extra on them:
Prescott Bush -
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar
He built the family fortune and was the first to enter politics, starting the dynasty that continues to this day.
George HW: He was CIA director in the late 70s, in charge of Operation Condor, which was massive violent interference even by usual US standards. His firrst act as pesident was to pardon everyone involved in the illegal deal to fund terrorists, called Iran-Contra.
The funny thing about the Saddam/Noriega quote above is that Noriega was an anti-worker asset of the CIA, trained in a US military installation. He was a brutal intelligence chief under a US-backed government, and, to provide a nice bow to the HW Bush story, was involved in moving the drugs for Iran-Contra. So in his capacity as CIA director and VP, HW would surely have come across him and helped him.
The reason he was removed by HW as president was because he got too ambitious and started dealing with more general drug trafficking and with Cuba.
W: Do I need to explain? Iraq, Patriot Act, Katrina...
...
Generally, I don't get any particular joy in celebrating a death, what gets me mad is this front page. Not one hint of the things I listed. I understand not saying anything about OPeration Condor since it's never ever talked about. But Iran-Contra is relatively famous. It should at least get a footnote. First Gulf War? Nothing. "Lauded as a calm and vital statesman." "Look at his baseball glove" (Isn't he just a normal guy like all of us!)
The American voter decided they didn’t want to vote for someone who lied to them.
So they elected Slick Willie
I originally included a bit in the post to the effect that every President in modern history has blood on their hands to varying extents but I didn't feel it was relevant to my point. I'm judging H.W Bush as a human being, not in comparison to 44 other morally compromised humans.
That is actually the only post in the Caf which seems to explain his policies. His foreign policy seems to have been a mess (I didn't check how correct oneniltothearsenal is, neither the context that existed back then), though it doesn't look any worse than the foreign policy of Obama for example (whose foreign policy has been way worse than that of Trump's but for some reasons get a free pass).
From what I have seen his foreign policy is what the experts have been praising.