Shit passer, bad first touch, cannot play one touch football, cannot hold the ball under pressure. How people can think he would be brilliant at City is mind-boggling, seriously just take a look at every single DM at Pep's team since he was at Barca, no way Fred is half as good as any of them
Fred - £47m well spent
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Agree. Every time he pass the ball, the ball never travel without bobbling on the pitch. Also have an amazing first touch which might be mistaken for a short pass
.I have seen tons of amateur/recreational players which have far better shooting than him. Inexcuseable. I laughed out of my arse when the news came out about Fred training free kicks with Bruno and Rashford. Is he the ball boy for them ?They use that transfer talk about Fred to City when we bought him, in reality nobody knows how serious City were in buying him. And frankly who fecking cares, the guy is never worth 50m pounds, if we were to sell him now, the best we can get is 15-20m.
the comparison to Djemba is very apt.
if we sold Fred now to Villa, he would go there and fail.
the difference now is that we don’t have such a good midfield, hence Fred gets more games. If we had Keane and Scholes - Fred wouldn’t get a look in.
Djemba x2 and Fred have high energy, run around a lot. Both couldn’t pass, and have a very poor first touch. Neither are/ were good enough.
when Fred is sold we will take a considerable loss, like Djemba. I see their career trajectory post United going the same way.
let’s be frank, no half decent team would take Fred.
So basically we need a new CB, DM, RW and a striker for a starting 11. Should be easy, with around 400M or so.
That's an interesting point of view. I'm not saying I agree with you, just that it's interesting. Sometimes Fred is useful, sometimes he is bad. It would be interesting seeing him (and a lot of our other 'poor players' at City). I reckon some CAFers would get a shock in line with Lingard's performances at West Ham.
Fred's form has been dropping pretty much since the start of this year, to the point he's had a few truly poor matches recently. It's obvious that he isn't playing well at the moment (although he still does have some good games) but it's equally obvious that some people in here are acting as if this is his normal level which is quite ridiculous. Fred was fine most of last season and the first few months of this season. 'Fine' as in not at the level of the true top midfielders we've had in the last 25 years like Keane, Scholes and Carrick, but he was our best central midfielder for this period since Pogba spent most so much of that time injured or in poor form, and he comfortably out-performed Matic and McTominay during that time. Hell, even during this poor period Fred is still out-performing Matic which is a sad indication of how far Matic has fallen.
I do hope that McTominay and Pogba might put a run together, as their last match together before Pogba's injury (Everton) was arguably the best we've played all season. It will also give Fred a rest and then force him to get back into form if he wants consistent game-time again. But that's arguably the only match that they've played really well together so I wouldn't say I'm confident that it'll work.
I do hope that McTominay and Pogba might put a run together, as their last match together before Pogba's injury (Everton) was arguably the best we've played all season. It will also give Fred a rest and then force him to get back into form if he wants consistent game-time again. But that's arguably the only match that they've played really well together so I wouldn't say I'm confident that it'll work.
Wow you actually really do believe it. Ok then.
Fred, his agent, and the director of his old club all said City made an offer for him, so we do know how serious they were; very.
Good post and I pretty much agree with it. Most of the posters in here have a fairly juvenile outlook and seems to only be able to remember the last 2 or 3 games.
To be fair to Matic, he may need a run of games, I would think it is difficult to play one a month and be expected to perform as well as you can if you were playing regularly. Ole either plays someone constantly or not at all it seems.
As for Fred, looks like he needs to be rested. Our squad should be strong enough to drop players who are playing poorly, that applies to Fred, Bruno, Rashford and everyone else. Speaking of Bruno, he has also been playing poorly for weeks. If he doesnt produce that moment of magic then he doesnt do much else and is extremely wasteful in possession.
Absolutely spot on, he's a very poor midfielder and if someone would pay 15-20 million I'd snap their hand off.
Yes, they dodged a bullet there did City... and with Alexis Sanchez.. getting quite good at it or maybe they are less prone to getting 'suckered-in' than we are?
I feel like Fred often falls victim of our lack of dynamism and often gets the ball passed into him in awkward positions. What’s he really supposed to do with his back to goal with a ball fizzed into him from the likes of lindelof as two opposing midfielders smash into him? Sure he’s not world class but our lack of progressive passing and general lack of movement make it much harder for him.
He's a good squad player but not one we should be spending that kind of money on.
It was mentioned elsewhere City make a number of signings in this kind of bracket for their squad. When they don't work as planned they either move them on and buy again or just keep them and replace with another. Unfortunately we can't do that hence the persistence to justify what we put down.
As I say I think he's a good player but not a great one and certainly nothing special.
It was mentioned elsewhere City make a number of signings in this kind of bracket for their squad. When they don't work as planned they either move them on and buy again or just keep them and replace with another. Unfortunately we can't do that hence the persistence to justify what we put down.
As I say I think he's a good player but not a great one and certainly nothing special.
I wouldn't disagree with much of what you say, but Fred often 'shows' for passes he shouldn't do, and/or he at time walks into that central position, arriving too late, or sometimes too early before the ball is played anywhere, by the keeper. Surely the idea of two CB's either side and a man showing down the middle is intended to display three possible options for the keeper to use, supposedly drawing three opposition players forward to commit to start their press, if that succeeds then surely the ball most go wide left or right? To play the ball to any player on the edge of his own box, with him facing his own goal and with someone breathing down his neck is a suicide ball?
One of the most underrated players we've had here. Had the same energy and tenacity as Fred, but with twice the ability on the ball and he even had some goals in him
That's way too harsh. He's considerably better than Djemba Djemba was. I also think a team like Villa would love to have him. Lots of Premier League teams would.
It's hard to say how much we could get for him now but if we could hypothetically remove covid he'd be worth about £30 million.
I do think though that of we really want to get the squad right big decisions have to be made on players like Fred and those around 28. His value is only going down from here and do we really need him and McTominay.
Very much agree. Our problem is, that we have too many of these 'good, not great' players in our squad and starting line-up. In their current versions, I would argue that AWB, Lindelof, Bailly, Fred, McTominay, Matic, Rashford, Martial, Greenwood and Cavani all fit into this category. Players that can all put in a great performance, but have limitations in their game or serious problems with consistency.
Fred is under the spotlight because of his awful performance and errors against Leicester, but I think he has been decent enough over the season. I do think he have overpaid, but that doesn't mean a lot going forward - he still has a place in the squad in my opinion. We just need to get more out of our transfers in the future, if we want to improve.
Fred made a howler for the first goal, but lets not pretend that fecking Matic is a better option
90% of our losses this season hes started and him and Pogba in the doble pivot have been tried multiple times and its always been a disaster
Plus Herrera had the exact mentality that’s required of a United player.
Understood the history of the club, understood the fans, and understood that it was the team first and the player second. Spoke brilliantly in interviews and seemed bulletproof mentally as well. Would’ve made a much better captain for me than Maguire.
It’s just a shame his time with the club coincided with the unstable post-Fergie shit show rather than the more cohesive structure we’ve built now.
Maguire should have never passed him the ball, but as a midfielder you should be aware of what is around you. He should be able to risk assess a lot quicker than your typical footballer. I'd of expected him to put it in row Z and then dig Maguire out. Or, better yet, find some way of passing it out, but this is the riskier option and don't think Fred has that in his locker.
I think the difference with AWB, Greenwood, Mctominay and Rashford is over the long term there's steady positive development and they are all young players. For me that's acceptable.
Fred though isn't a young player and doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes as pointed out. You have a run of good games then back to errors. That's the issue.
Herrera's 90 min 'man-marking' of Hazard is now the stuff of legends. It was one of the best personal 90min displays from a player doing an 'uncelebrated job' I've ever seen by a United player. The only one that comes close was Martin Buchan having Gerd Muller in his pocket for 90mins, but that was for Scotland against West Germany.
I agree Herrera wasn't the complete midfielder but he was streets better than Fred.
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He was aware, he knew he was screwed before the ball even got to him.
Problem is as a footballer you are trained that when under pressure you control the ball and protect it until you can see a pass or play it upfield. It's totally against your instinct to boot it out for a corner or throw in like that.
Yes, as I referred to I don't think, in fact I know that Fred doesn't have it in his locker to protect and control it from that position, so his only real option is getting it out of the danger area. Instead he made the situation worse.
Does anybody? It was a horrendous decision to pass to him there.
Yes other players have it in "their locker" i.e. Pogba but there would still be a good chance of being dispossessed. I agree, shocking decision to give him the ball there, but Fred is not blameless for the goal for sure. It was possible to salvage the situation.
For a team so inclined to pass it out from the back surely there are measures of punting it up the pitch or out for a throw in under serious pressure? Those measures should have been applied here.
Then they must be fecking relieved.
Exactly.
Its not a huge sample size, but Oles first (half season) the stats with and without Herrera were bordering on absurd.
With Herrera: 8-1-0. Goals scored pr game: 2.22, goals conceded pr game: 0.44
Without: 4-1-3, 1.75 goals scored pr game, 1.88 goals coneded pr game
Off topic but can't believe we never replaced Herrera. Whoever the feck is running our transfers hasn't a clue.
It was also the only time that I can recall us actually consistently using a 3-man midfield with Matic as the CDM, Herrera as the box-to-box CM and Pogba as the attacking CAM. And we happened to go on a ridiculous winning run scoring a boat load in the process.
Fast forward 6 months and we’re back to the 4-2-3-1 system with McTominay next to Pogba and Lingard ahead of them. Just seems odd.
firstly that means nothing. Some people exaggerate an ‘offer’ as an enquiry. It’s also in all of their interests to exaggerate such a claim do that their club, their agent, and the player get more money....
That’s never happened to United before had it...
Secondly, some posters now are putting far too much stock in City being ‘interested’. They, and Pep have had some shocking transfers. They dodged a bullet.
thirdly, look at Sanchez. City were ‘allegedly’ interested in him - does that mean he was a good signing. Hell no.
He obviously wasn’t screwed. He was in a position that he’d frequently be in, miscontrolled the ball and then underhit a back pass. The only reason he was screwed was because, unfortunately, he messed up. It happens and I don’t blame Fred for having a bad moment/game but it’s 100% his fault.
Pogba has done the exact same thing in the past. I forget the opponent but he tried to turn on the edge of our own box and he lost possession and they scored. You just don't play a ball to somebody facing backwards, surrounded by three players on the edge of their own box.
Yes he has, and he made a mistake and was rightly called out for it at the time.
So, is Fred blameless for the goal in your eyes?
Eh, the difference between 4231 and 433 are mostly philosphical imo and depends more on the players in it than the formation itself.
Matic (back then at least) and Herrera are better on the ball than McFred, so even though the position and the role is the same, the outcome will look a lot different since the former pair is going to be more invloved in our build up
Not at all, he made a big mistake. Maguire made almost as big a mistake by giving him such a bad pass though.
Okay, then we're in agreement
At the start of the season I was quite pro-Fred because his attitude is first class and he works his socks off for the team. The problem is that he is technically so appallingly bad that he isn't a viable option for a team looking to challenge for EPL/CL titles.
Against bigger teams he is fine as a midfield destroyer capable of knocking big teams off their stride in midfield. Aside from that though he offers nothing in these games. His passing is actually shocking for a premier league player he over/under-hits 50% of his passes. He always looks for the easy option rather than trying to progress out attacks forward and on the rare occasion he takes a risk and tries to play a forward pass it is aimlessly hit towards nobody. His first touch is Lukaku tier and he is physically weak which allows opposition players to out-muscle him. I notice he loses almost every 50/50 he goes into. He also shits the bed whenever he is pressed.
I can safely say we would be vastly improved in midfield by swapping Fred for any of the below options all of whom would be available for around £10m
Anguissa
Hayden
Westwood
Romeu
Bissouma (maybe more like £15-20m)
Chalobah
de Roon (maybe a little bit more)
Diawara
Demme
Maksimovic
I honestly think Fred would struggle to get into most PL first choice midfields
It also really pisses me off we let Herrera go because he is a much better midfielder than Fred.
If our Midfield was either a 3 of McTominay - Herrera - Bruno (against big teams) or a diamond 4 of Mctominay - Herrera - Pogba - Bruno
that is a big improvement on Fred in either of them
Against bigger teams he is fine as a midfield destroyer capable of knocking big teams off their stride in midfield. Aside from that though he offers nothing in these games. His passing is actually shocking for a premier league player he over/under-hits 50% of his passes. He always looks for the easy option rather than trying to progress out attacks forward and on the rare occasion he takes a risk and tries to play a forward pass it is aimlessly hit towards nobody. His first touch is Lukaku tier and he is physically weak which allows opposition players to out-muscle him. I notice he loses almost every 50/50 he goes into. He also shits the bed whenever he is pressed.
I can safely say we would be vastly improved in midfield by swapping Fred for any of the below options all of whom would be available for around £10m
Anguissa
Hayden
Westwood
Romeu
Bissouma (maybe more like £15-20m)
Chalobah
de Roon (maybe a little bit more)
Diawara
Demme
Maksimovic
I honestly think Fred would struggle to get into most PL first choice midfields
It also really pisses me off we let Herrera go because he is a much better midfielder than Fred.
If our Midfield was either a 3 of McTominay - Herrera - Bruno (against big teams) or a diamond 4 of Mctominay - Herrera - Pogba - Bruno
that is a big improvement on Fred in either of them
Fred has his weaknesses but that’s a ridiculous claim given the list you made.
The lower you go down the league the better Fred would look because the team would be more likely to exclusively play in a manner that highlighted his strengths.
Fred’s issues primarily arise from us demanding things from him that he’s not good at. Those demands wouldn’t exist at most of the clubs the players you referenced play for.
Bissouma is the only name I agree with and he would cost closer to what Fred himself cost. Brighton paid £15 million for him themselves and he’s only improved with them.
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