Fred - £47m well spent

Falcow

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Fred is a tricky one, a lot of the time he does not pass the "eye test" and it can leave the general feeling that he has had more bad games than good. On the other hand, the stats make him look like he's a much much better player than he probably is. I do agree that a lot of his work can go unnoticed, I'd be happy to let him stay and I think he's a guaranteed starter for the big games where we need that all energy, quick tempo approach but I don't think it's outlandish to suggest that we could improve on him.
Far to sensible a post for a redcafe member. You need to be much more polarised in your views to be a full member of Redcafe. @Raoul does this deserve a like? I think so.
 

Kostov

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Some posters on here love to make it as complicated as possible regarding some players we have while it's pretty straight forward. Look at Real Madrid's midfielders in Kroos, Modric and Casemiro, that's the standard we need to aspire to, not Fred. And they got them for how much again? 60-70m? While we paid 50m to some Ukrainian club for Fred? Yes he is useful in games and can contribute, puts 100% into everything and I respect him and like him for that. However he is not good enough to start week in week out for Manchester United.
 

Litch

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Fred is a tricky one, a lot of the time he does not pass the "eye test" and it can leave the general feeling that he has had more bad games than good. On the other hand, the stats make him look like he's a much much better player than he probably is. I do agree that a lot of his work can go unnoticed, I'd be happy to let him stay and I think he's a guaranteed starter for the big games where we need that all energy, quick tempo approach but I don't think it's outlandish to suggest that we could improve on him.
Football eye tests are rarely 20/20.....I'd say more blinkered. Stats equally so as 'fans maths' don't always equate, again depending on interpretation. Not sure Fred is a tricky one, just depends on your lense. He polarises opinions but for me, just means he's probably sits something in the middle. Even being in the middle is a hard place to maintain at Utd and better players than Fred have struggled to maintain that.

Yes, there is an upgrade for every player and including the manager but those who follow the club, Fred is every bit Man Utd. A player who never know when it's beaten, responds to adversity and proves the doubters wrong. If those who's ceilings were higher like Pogs, had some of these qualities consistently, in principle Fred probably wouldn't be here. Fred has to exist cause others simply don't often enough. Look back at some of the most important games in prem and CL since Ole, Fred's been up there for MOTM in most of them.
 

Litch

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Some posters on here love to make it as complicated as possible regarding some players we have while it's pretty straight forward. Look at Real Madrid's midfielders in Kroos, Modric and Casemiro, that's the standard we need to aspire to, not Fred. And they got them for how much again? 60-70m? While we paid 50m to some Ukrainian club for Fred? Yes he is useful in games and can contribute, puts 100% into everything and I respect him and like him for that. However he is not good enough to start week in week out for Manchester United.
Why stop there. How about their defence, their attack or even their manager?
 

Litch

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It's where we are the weakest and most evident in comparison. It's the engine of the team and we have Fred there.
My point is why compare? You could argue that the weakest point is the manager as Fred doesn't pick himself? Real aren't even the barometer in their own league.
 

stevoc

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Why stop there. How about their defence, their attack or even their manager?
Isn't this a thread about Fred though?

As opposed to comparing the strengths and weaknesses of United and Real at every level. If someone is comparing Fred to another midfielder in a thread about Fred that's fair enough is it not?
 

Redlyn

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Fred is contributing twice as much as Matic. So upgrade Matic so that Fred can become just a good squad option. Replacing Fred right now to me would be a very poor move that wouldn't strengthen us as much as people seem to think.
 

MattJ166

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Football eye tests are rarely 20/20.....I'd say more blinkered. Stats equally so as 'fans maths' don't always equate, again depending on interpretation. Not sure Fred is a tricky one, just depends on your lense. He polarises opinions but for me, just means he's probably sits something in the middle. Even being in the middle is a hard place to maintain at Utd and better players than Fred have struggled to maintain that.

Yes, there is an upgrade for every player and including the manager but those who follow the club, Fred is every bit Man Utd. A player who never know when it's beaten, responds to adversity and proves the doubters wrong. If those who's ceilings were higher like Pogs, had some of these qualities consistently, in principle Fred probably wouldn't be here. Fred has to exist cause others simply don't often enough. Look back at some of the most important games in prem and CL since Ole, Fred's been up there for MOTM in most of them.
I agree, if someone watches a player with a bias already in their head, their mistakes or constructive plays can be seen to prove whatever point the person originally had (similar to Howson and Shaw, it took him way to long to admit he was playing well), I suspect it's very similar with Fred, one wayward pass and thats all the confirmation people need. My friend always bemoans Harry Maguire every single time he dallies on the ball, even if he'd just got it out of his feet quickly the play beforehand stating that "he always does this".

Don't get me wrong, I like Fred and hope he stays with us as his passion, mentality and energy is something we can be lacking often. (ala Pogba as you cite) He is also okay to be sat on the bench when needed.
 

Raveneye

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Imagine if we played Park Ji Sung as a starter every week. It wouldn't be miles off what you get with Fred.
 

Ole'sattheWheel

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I can't make my mind up on him - my opinion seems to change weekly on a weekly basis (football fans, fickle, etc).

Sometimes I can't imagine our midfiekd without him (always seems to play great in the Derbies for example), but then other times he seems to be losing the ball left, right & centre.


I do like him though and hope we keep him, I think we just need someone a bit better on the ball in his position for rotation/a different option
 

Park's Petrified Pooch

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Imagine if we played Park Ji Sung as a starter every week. It wouldn't be miles off what you get with Fred.
Imagine comparing a player who contributed match winning performances and key goals in one of our best squads, having cost £4 million to Fred. In a thread the title of which is suggesting it was £47 million well spent on him. I’d take Park over Fred on Park’s worst day and Fred’s best. Some of you need an eye test.
 

Raveneye

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Imagine comparing a player who contributed match winning performances and key goals in one of our best squads, having cost £4 million to Fred. In a thread the title of which is suggesting it was £47 million well spent on him. I’d take Park over Fred on Park’s worst day and Fred’s best. Some of you need an eye test.
Prices are inflated all around since Park's time. Park would cost way more today.

And yeah, Park was important to that incredible squad and served as a fantastic option from the bench or as a starter to harass someone very important. Which would ideally be what Fred would be doing.
 

kirk buttercup

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I can't make my mind up on him - my opinion seems to change weekly on a weekly basis (football fans, fickle, etc).

Sometimes I can't imagine our midfiekd without him (always seems to play great in the Derbies for example), but then other times he seems to be losing the ball left, right & centre.


I do like him though and hope we keep him, I think we just need someone a bit better on the ball in his position for rotation/a different option
dont feel Bad my opinion on him changes Within the game ...Numerous times
 

Pogue Mahone

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I can't make my mind up on him - my opinion seems to change weekly on a weekly basis (football fans, fickle, etc).

Sometimes I can't imagine our midfiekd without him (always seems to play great in the Derbies for example), but then other times he seems to be losing the ball left, right & centre.



I do like him though and hope we keep him, I think we just need someone a bit better on the ball in his position for rotation/a different option
Easy explanation for that this week. He was very good in our last game and very bad tonight. As @Annihilate Now! suggested, Matic seems to be his kryptonite.
 

Foxbatt

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It's not only his passing. Today he was getting into a muddle without any pressure. It's one thing to miss pass under pressure. It's another thing to do it under no pressure most of the time.
 

Ole'sattheWheel

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dont feel Bad my opinion on him changes Within the game ...Numerous times
:D:D:D you are not alone there my friend.


Easy explanation for that this week. He was very good in our last game and very bad tonight. As @Annihilate Now! suggested, Matic seems to be his kryptonite.
Good point I'd never considered before - always tend to dread it when I see them both on the team sheet together but never really put 2 & 2 together.
However at the moment it allows Pogba on the left where he seems to love it - so may it continue imo with scott in the mix for a spot aswell
 

Water Melon

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Imagine if we played Park Ji Sung as a starter every week. It wouldn't be miles off what you get with Fred.
JSP was on a whole different level to Fred. He was the better passer and the better finisher. I would argue that his engine was better too.
 

city-puma

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JSP was on a whole different level to Fred. He was the better passer and the better finisher. I would argue that his engine was better too.
Park is definitely another level in term of shooting. His goal against AC Milan when playing for PSV probably drew our attention. His stamina is on par with Fred. But rather than those, Fred is clearly better.
 

Raveneye

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JSP was on a whole different level to Fred. He was the better passer and the better finisher. I would argue that his engine was better too.
You'll get no argument from me. Park was amazing and he'd easily fit into Ole's pivot and do a better job than either Fred or McTominay. My point was that there wouldn't be miles of difference and Fred can be that sort of player for this team.
 

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High energy all-action player who plays with his head down. I refuse to believe Pep Guardiola wanted to purchase Fred. We must have the three most unpredictable midfielders of all the top teams in Fred, Bruno and Pogba. Absolute world-class and head-scratching moments within the same game.

I would get bored with City's machine-like efficiency.
 

devilish

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Is Fred worth 47m? The answer is no. I would prefer a prime Phil Neville to him in CM let alone a Fletcher or a Butt (who weren't anywhere near to a Carrick or a Keane). However that doesn't really matter. He's here, no one is going to give us anywhere near to that fee to buy him off our hands and tbh he's not the worst CM we've got. Also we've got too many positions to strengthen to really worry about Fred.

I can see Pogba, Matic, Mata and VDB leaving either this season or the next. McT would take the B2B role, a top DM will be signed and we'll probably get an AMC as well to cover for Bruno. Unless Fred improves radically then he will linger as a squad player up until his time is up.
 

devilish

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High energy all-action player who plays with his head down. I refuse to believe Pep Guardiola wanted to purchase Fred. We must have the three most unpredictable midfielders of all the top teams in Fred, Bruno and Pogba. Absolute world-class and head-scratching moments within the same game.

I would get bored with City's machine-like efficiency.
We need to remove the concept that managers are experts regarding talent spotting. That made sense 20 years ago but not anymore. The manager's job had been deskilled with DOFs taking key aspects of their job. The manager neither have the time nor the experience to be considered top and reliable talent spotters anymore. So I won't be surprised if Pep wanted Fred and Sanchez only to be shot down by the DOF.
 
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We need to remove the concept that managers are experts regarding talent spotting. That made sense 20 years ago but not anymore. The manager's job had been deskilled with DOFs taking key aspects of their job. The manager neither have the time nor the experience to be considered top and reliable talent spotters anymore. So I won't be surprised if Pep wanted Fred and Sanchez only to be shot down by the DOF.
agree. Furthermore just because a manager wants a player, it is not a barometer of quality.

Because Pep was ‘interested’ in Fred is actually used an an argument for Fred being a good player. It’s absurd.

united had the greatest manager in British history, and bloody hell did he buy some duds. Especially in midfield, Miller. Djemba x 2, Kleberson off the top of my head. Pep has bought some shocking players as well, just as every manager does. Pep wanted Sanchez. That says it all.

it’s therefore absurd to conflate his interest with the quality of a player. Whether Fred is good enough or not (and I think he’s not), is based on how he has played over the past three seasons.
 

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I'd say, just like Bruno, he played too much. And with they way he (and Bruno) chasing the ball like dog on heat, it is extremely hard to NOT making mistakes.
 

Litch

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Fred comparisons to Park are ridiculous for so many reasons not to mention they don't even play in the same position. People have so many selective memories and trust me, some Utd fans thought players like Park were bought for selling shirts in Asia than for football reasons. Brilliant squad player nonetheless.

Regarding Fred, thought he was poor yesterday but when you are playing with Matic, be prepared to do a double shift, cause he doesn't move and even then it's extremely slowly. I thought everyone's passing was terrible yesterday too. The weird thing about Fred is his best games are always generally against the better sides....
 

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Seeing this thread as an almost permanent fixture on the homepage is cringeworthy.
 

simplyared

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The thread title is a bit cringeworthy definately. However I'm more at ease now with him being in the starting line-up than I was before. I tend to think his positives outweigh the negative side of his game. Tbh can't think of any other player who resembles Fred. A one off I would say.
 

MadDogg

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I can't make my mind up on him - my opinion seems to change weekly on a weekly basis (football fans, fickle, etc).

Sometimes I can't imagine our midfiekd without him (always seems to play great in the Derbies for example), but then other times he seems to be losing the ball left, right & centre.
He's been inconsistent since January so it's understandable to have a lot of changes in how you rate his performances week to week. Some games he's great, some games he's shit, most games he's been about average. How you rate him as an overall player should take all those games together, along with the fact he'd actually been one of our most consistent players in the 16 or so months before that.

I just hope he gets over his current inconsistency soon. This season hopefully, but perhaps he needs the off season break to recharge his batteries.
 

Ranchero

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What a player. Aside from the PSG red where we were all fuming at him, he has really come on strong since Ole’s arrival and made himself an indispensable member to the first team. So remarkably energetic, magnificent at breaking up play and this season especially, has added a real technical ability to his game. Add to that his much improved decision-making, and you have the excellent midfielder that Fred is now.

So far, he’s been one of our players of the season. Imo, it’s fair to say by now that the £47m we shelled out for him was inspired business.
Good squad player. But we need an upgrade
 

MikeeMike

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Fair enough. I just dont see it with him and it's probably the last thing I would accuse him of but maybe I'm just blind to it.

I do also think it is very difficult to both ball watch a lot while also being more involved in the play than anyone else but I'll make an effort in next few games to see if I spot any ball watching.
This will sound petty but Roma second goal. This was an example of why , in my view , Fred frustrates. If you watch from when McT loses possession way up the pitch. He fails to track first runner. Stands in space watching ball with two Roma players either side. Misses the run in the channel. Then after they score is wacking the floor in anger.


He had a good game generally but this is an example where I think he has the ability if he just looked around for danger.
 

Martialfc

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This
Some posters on here love to make it as complicated as possible regarding some players we have while it's pretty straight forward. Look at Real Madrid's midfielders in Kroos, Modric and Casemiro, that's the standard we need to aspire to, not Fred. And they got them for how much again? 60-70m? While we paid 50m to some Ukrainian club for Fred? Yes he is useful in games and can contribute, puts 100% into everything and I respect him and like him for that. However he is not good enough to start week in week out for Manchester United.