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2020-21 Performances


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Borys

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He is good enough to play against 80% of teams we will face in a season. Not a game changer but very useful.

The problem is, his direct rival in Pogba isn't the answer for those remaining 20% either. Not in midfield.

He'll make a very good second XI midfielder next season, once we upgrade on Paul.
 

MadDogg

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Fred is the worst regular midfielder we've had in the whole Prem era. I can not believe the praise he receives in this thread.

Starts near every game and offers nothing beside energy, and there are several players in the division who are significantly better in this regard.

Doesn't start for most of the top ten, including Everton, West Ham, Spurs and Leicester. Possibly he starts for Arsenal but even then Xhaka and Ceballos are both far better on the ball so I dunno.
I suggest you read this thread that I made last month: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/midfield-creativity-stats-and-comparisons.460870/

Fred isn't perfect and he has been in average-to-poor form recently, but he's much better than you make out.
 

Adam-Utd

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we've been over this many times.

What Fred brings isn't obvious because he doesn't excel at the obvious things.

Anybody can appreciate a 30 yard ball switched from 1 side to another, anybody can appreciate a 30 yard screamer from the edge of the box.

What is harder to appreciate is how hard he works, how he practically double covers every player on the pitch on the left (helps shaw constantly as well as his own man)

Yes he had a bad passing game against City and he definitely needs to tighten that up, but he is our engine.
 

Andrew Richmond

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i Truly don’t get the hate for Fred. I really don’t. Feel for the guy. He is so much better than he is given credit for.
 

Litch

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i Truly don’t get the hate for Fred. I really don’t. Feel for the guy. He is so much better than he is given credit for.
Like many players like him, the credit often comes from those who play with him or manage him.....
 

Litch

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The hate is. He can’t pass a bloody football 5 yards. He’s a CM.
Are you and others seriously saying that Ole picks a player that would cost him games? You think he really wants to get the sack? You know this season he only played 2 games that we have lost out of 7?
 
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There wouldn’t be ‘hate’ for Fred if there wasn’t a forum.

I don’t think he’s a top quality player, he has a role in the squad, was clearly massively overpriced and hasn’t lived up to expectations for a player that cost £52m.

his passing is erratic and not good enough.

that’s my opinion, I don’t hate him, and when he does play well, I’m pleased for him.

it always gets heated when their are conflicting opinions. Posters coming along and proudly posting a 90% pass completion stat as their ‘evidence’ - doesn’t wash. That in turn, perpetuatea downward cycle of comments on both sides of the fence.

I think he gets more love from some fans because of his energy levels, and his stamina. Which are impressive - especially when you compare that to some of our other midfielders at the club.

but on their own, it’s simply not enough.

clearly we can win things with Fred in the side - not every player needs to be a superstar. I do however, think we would benefit a great deal my investing in a player who is far better on the ball.

whether that comes ahead of CB, RW or striker... I don’t know.
 

Mainoldo

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Except that blatantly isn't true and it's over the top exaggeration like that that makes it hard to take criticism seriously.
Not true? I seen it with my flipping own eyes against City. The man cannot retain possession.
 

Mainoldo

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Are you and others seriously saying that Ole picks a player that would cost him games? You think he really wants to get the sack? You know this season he only played 2 games that we have lost out of 7?
Ermm. I don’t know what Ole has to do with Fred not being able to pass?

But to answer your question we don’t play possession football so it’s not important to him.
 

MadDogg

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Not true? I seen it with my flipping own eyes against City. The man cannot retain possession.
Show me one player that has never given the ball away cheaply.

Fred does give it away a bit more than what we'd like, but nowhere near to the extent that some go on about. You going on as if it's a 50/50 thing if he even completes a 5 yard pass is ridiculous.
 

Mainoldo

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Show me one player that has never given the ball away cheaply.

Fred does give it away a bit more than what we'd like, but nowhere near to the extent that some go on about. You going on as if it's a 50/50 thing if he even completes a 5 yard pass is ridiculous.
Your first sentence is not my argument mate.

Let’s just agree to disagree. Saves me having a dumb argument.
 

LovelyLittlePanda

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Not sure how you dont see the link? We lost 7 games this season, he didnt play in 5 of those. Is it that you think that is a coincidence? If so fair enough, we are all entitled to our opinion.....mine is that it ain't no coincidence.
There's 2 conclusions you can draw from Fred's high win rate:

1. Fred is amazing (normally, let's ignore his recent slump)

or

2. Fred is the best we have at the moment.

I think it's the latter. He's the only player we have that even resembles a DM. He's the best pairing for Pogba in midfield given our current squad. He's my first choice for big games too. Let's hope he regains his form asap, because we both agree we need him.

For a top team DM I just expect a bit more physicality, like Ndidi, or some more playmaking, like Busquets. Hell, even the great workhorses of the past like Park or Davids had better technique and could chip in with goals and assists.

I view McTominay as a box-to-box midfielder. Fred clearly isn't one, he offers nothing in the final third.

This is why I said I would be happy with only one signing (DM) in the summer.
Let me ask you this: What area do you think we need to upgrade on if it's not DM?
 

Litch

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Ermm. I don’t know what Ole has to do with Fred not being able to pass?

But to answer your question we don’t play possession football so it’s not important to him.
These kind of nonsense just reinforces the point of the absolute nonsense of some Utd football fans. This guy is saying what does the football manager have to do about picking a player than he says can't pass!!! His next 'gem' is cause we don't play procession football, it doesn't matter if the manager picks a player who can't pass anyway!!!!

Not even sure why I entertained it with a response.....
 

Litch

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There wouldn’t be ‘hate’ for Fred if there wasn’t a forum.

I don’t think he’s a top quality player, he has a role in the squad, was clearly massively overpriced and hasn’t lived up to expectations for a player that cost £52m.

his passing is erratic and not good enough.

that’s my opinion, I don’t hate him, and when he does play well, I’m pleased for him.

it always gets heated when their are conflicting opinions. Posters coming along and proudly posting a 90% pass completion stat as their ‘evidence’ - doesn’t wash. That in turn, perpetuatea downward cycle of comments on both sides of the fence.

I think he gets more love from some fans because of his energy levels, and his stamina. Which are impressive - especially when you compare that to some of our other midfielders at the club.

but on their own, it’s simply not enough.

clearly we can win things with Fred in the side - not every player needs to be a superstar. I do however, think we would benefit a great deal my investing in a player who is far better on the ball.

whether that comes ahead of CB, RW or striker... I don’t know.
In essence is whilst there are pretty much two sides of most views about Fred, just goes to prove that neither are right and probably something in the middle. That said, people have amnesia about his performances and countless arguably MOTMs which were for more than 'running around'. The very player most want that can pass, be creative, shoot from distance already exists and has been here for years. We paid 90 mil for him and he's not lived up to anything like we expected. If he did, we wouldn't be having the discussion about what Fred can't do, as that's the very player who can. The europa semi finals last year demonstrated it perfectly, with Fred and Pogs, and that was arguably the best game Utd played in years.....
 

tjb

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i Truly don’t get the hate for Fred. I really don’t. Feel for the guy. He is so much better than he is given credit for.
It comes from the undue praise he gets for average performances. My issue with him is the same as my issue with Herrera. We say we want to challenge for trophies and dominate games, yet praise Fred for the absolute minimum. I don't like him as a player because I believe players like Maguire, Bruno, Rashord and Pogba take a lot of criticism for taking responsibility during games, whereas the likes of Fred and Lindelof get praised for the bare minimum despite being the actual cause of the problems in the team. We constantly lose midfield battles in big games partly because of him and our band of poor midfield performers. Praising him and overrating him allows for there to be a lack of urgency in recruiting a better player in his position. This happened with Herrera for years since he looked busy.
 

Falcow

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There's 2 conclusions you can draw from Fred's high win rate:

1. Fred is amazing (normally, let's ignore his recent slump)

or

2. Fred is the best we have at the moment.

I think it's the latter. He's the only player we have that even resembles a DM. He's the best pairing for Pogba in midfield given our current squad. He's my first choice for big games too. Let's hope he regains his form asap, because we both agree we need him.

For a top team DM I just expect a bit more physicality, like Ndidi, or some more playmaking, like Busquets. Hell, even the great workhorses of the past like Park or Davids had better technique and could chip in with goals and assists.

I view McTominay as a box-to-box midfielder. Fred clearly isn't one, he offers nothing in the final third.

This is why I said I would be happy with only one signing (DM) in the summer.
Let me ask you this: What area do you think we need to upgrade on if it's not DM?
That's fair enough. I think however striker and centre back are more urgent. If we can bring in another midfielder then great but if it had to be 2 out of 3 I would upgrade striker and centre back first and possibly even a wide attacking player.

Obviously if there is a Xabi Alonso or Roy Keane type out there then please do get them but needs to be better than what we have.
 

Mainoldo

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These kind of nonsense just reinforces the point of the absolute nonsense of some Utd football fans. This guy is saying what does the football manager have to do about picking a player than he says can't pass!!! His next 'gem' is cause we don't play procession football, it doesn't matter if the manager picks a player who can't pass anyway!!!!

Not even sure why I entertained it with a response.....
Like it wasn’t a trick question. You just made it difficult.

I said he can’t pass. You tried to explain he can pass by telling me Ole picks him. What the hell does that have to do with my reasons of Fred not being able to pass. Maybe explain that or are you telling me Ole controls him on a FIFA pad.
 

Litch

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Like it wasn’t a trick question. You just made it difficult.

I said he can’t pass. You tried to explain he can pass by telling me Ole picks him. What the hell does that have to do with my reasons of Fred not being able to pass. Maybe explain that or are you telling me Ole controls him on a FIFA pad.
No trick question, just don't see how a manager who is under pressure at times would play someone that can't pass and therefore would potentially cost him football games. You know how ridiculous that sounds?
 

Kostov

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Show me one player that has never given the ball away cheaply.

Fred does give it away a bit more than what we'd like, but nowhere near to the extent that some go on about. You going on as if it's a 50/50 thing if he even completes a 5 yard pass is ridiculous.
It’s not just about completing a 5 yard pass, the quality of those passes and in what position you put the receiver also matters. Fred is a bellow average passer of the ball I think we can all agree on that.
 

Litch

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There's 2 conclusions you can draw from Fred's high win rate:

1. Fred is amazing (normally, let's ignore his recent slump)

or

2. Fred is the best we have at the moment.

I think it's the latter. He's the only player we have that even resembles a DM. He's the best pairing for Pogba in midfield given our current squad. He's my first choice for big games too. Let's hope he regains his form asap, because we both agree we need him.

For a top team DM I just expect a bit more physicality, like Ndidi, or some more playmaking, like Busquets. Hell, even the great workhorses of the past like Park or Davids had better technique and could chip in with goals and assists.

I view McTominay as a box-to-box midfielder. Fred clearly isn't one, he offers nothing in the final third.

This is why I said I would be happy with only one signing (DM) in the summer.
Let me ask you this: What area do you think we need to upgrade on if it's not DM?
You know Busquets and Davids are probably amongst the best players ever to play in that position. Davids a work horse (?) and not sure what the relevance of Park is? How can you comment on a player not being good enough when the bar is set so high? If that's the case we might as well sack Ole cause he's not SAF...
 

MikeeMike

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It comes from the undue praise he gets for average performances. My issue with him is the same as my issue with Herrera. We say we want to challenge for trophies and dominate games, yet praise Fred for the absolute minimum. I don't like him as a player because I believe players like Maguire, Bruno, Rashord and Pogba take a lot of criticism for taking responsibility during games, whereas the likes of Fred and Lindelof get praised for the bare minimum despite being the actual cause of the problems in the team. We constantly lose midfield battles in big games partly because of him and our band of poor midfield performers. Praising him and overrating him allows for there to be a lack of urgency in recruiting a better player in his position. This happened with Herrera for years since he looked busy.
Spot on observation ! Fred has no responsibility. He is not expected to score regularly, not tasked with man marking on corners, not given any corners/ free kicks. He has a fantastic work rate and is always rated on this alone. Not showing any signs of improving. He’s not helped by sporadic form of others.
 

Foxbatt

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He is the water carrier. He is doing his job. The problem is the way we play with three forwards. You take out Fred and we cannot press like he does. No one has the energy to run like he does and close the space. I have said his movement off the ball is terrible when we have the ball. But when we do not have to ball he is the best in the team in hunting down.
 

NZT-One

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Spot on observation ! Fred has no responsibility. He is not expected to score regularly, not tasked with man marking on corners, not given any corners/ free kicks. He has a fantastic work rate and is always rated on this alone. Not showing any signs of improving. He’s not helped by sporadic form of others.
Think thats a bit unfair to be honest. I mean he was pretty dire when he arrived but in Ole's 1st season he quickly became one of the first names on the teamsheet. Sure, that might not only be because of his awesome abilities, but it does appears out of nowhere too. He might not increased the high level of performance, but he only dipped around new year this year. Until this, he was more or less a reliable 6-7 out of 10 performer. Who else can you make that statement about from our team?

I feel a bit remembered at the Fletcher situation, who was doubted very long. Or Park. I don't want to compare Fred with their qualities but it feels like the pack is out searching for a scapegoat. And who else is there who hasn't really some sort of lobby and going after would cause a bigger uproar...

I hope his form gets back to the where it has been for so long and that a few more players develope the same. Unfortunately I have a feeling, that this thread is going to be firery after the Westham game...
 

MikeeMike

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Think thats a bit unfair to be honest. I mean he was pretty dire when he arrived but in Ole's 1st season he quickly became one of the first names on the teamsheet. Sure, that might not only be because of his awesome abilities, but it does appears out of nowhere too. He might not increased the high level of performance, but he only dipped around new year this year. Until this, he was more or less a reliable 6-7 out of 10 performer. Who else can you make that statement about from our team?

I feel a bit remembered at the Fletcher situation, who was doubted very long. Or Park. I don't want to compare Fred with their qualities but it feels like the pack is out searching for a scapegoat. And who else is there who hasn't really some sort of lobby and going after would cause a bigger uproar...

I hope his form gets back to the where it has been for so long and that a few more players develope the same. Unfortunately I have a feeling, that this thread is going to be firery after the Westham game...
OK. I’m a direct person so, to say, we have polarized view on Fred.

If you think he “quickly” became one of the first names on Ole’s team sheet after a being “pretty dire” , can you highlight some examples of this.

I just see a player who ball watches, has no awareness , cannot shoot , cannot take corners, brilliant in front of defence to take the ball and square pass 10yds.

Would NEVER be first name on my teamsheet (although probably not last either)
 

Mainoldo

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No trick question, just don't see how a manager who is under pressure at times would play someone that can't pass and therefore would potentially cost him football games. You know how ridiculous that sounds?
Again what does all that matter. I said he can’t pass you said the manager likes him. That doesn’t give me my answers that he can’t pass.

The manager also likes Martial and right about now he can’t score.
 

kettledrumhamster

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As the article is probably behind a paywall, would you mind paraphrasing the key points from the article, whats the conclusion on him?
edited as suggested, so just to summarise:

  • His standout skill is interceptions — he does it at least twice a game (2.49 possession-adjusted interceptions per 90 minutes — the 11 o’clock spike on the radar), such as the chance he seized from De Bruyne.
  • He is above average at tackling, pressuring the ball and regaining it from his pressing (all the shapes from 10 to 8 o’clock counter-clockwise). Fred’s energy and match reading sense make him a valuable presence in a team that can be weak out of possession.
  • He is slightly above average (nearly all of the shapes from 1 to 4 o’clock on the radar) on the ball. Fred’s numbers for deep progressions, expected goals (xG) assisted and xG build-up are all above average, but suggest a player who prefers to work in the first two-thirds of the pitch.
  • He has the match-reading intelligence to nearly make the correct decision every time, but he is similar to Victor Lindelof in that he can lack the physicality and quickness of touch to consistently execute his ideas. His software is near cutting edge, but his execution of below-the-shoulders moves needs work.
  • His shooting is better than he's given credit for
  • He has done well to turn himself from a potential flop to one of the (near) ever-presents.
  • He is a good asset and one reason the club is operating at a top-four contender/Europa League favourite level.
  • But if United wish to take the jump and become genuine contenders for the Premier League and Champions League, then Fred will have to improve his execution on and off the ball, or United will find a replacement for him in the starting line-up through the transfer window.
  • He is an erratic defensive box-to-box player often playing next to another inconsistent midfielder in McTominay. Together, they shield a back four that has ambitions of playing with a high line, but lacks the recovery pace if caught on the transition, and ahead of the duo is a Portuguese playmaker making enough creative passes for everyone.
  • He is a needed — if sometimes — frustrating cog in a strangely dysfunctional side, with the skill set and mindset to be a benefit to United’s squad for years, even if the team do make the jump and become more functional in their playing rhythms.
  • There is a reason the United manager gave him a thumbs up after shooting wide. There is a decent hard-working player in Fred who is getting better with encouragement and a clear role.
  • The Brazilian might not be the final piece in unlocking Pogba and turbo-charging United to supercar levels, but he does have value keeping things ticking along.
 
Last edited:

MikeeMike

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It was in the 67th minute against Chelsea that Fred had his moment, curling a right-foot shot from outside the area. The effort, although well-struck, went past the far post. The Brazilian cursed his missed opportunity but Ole Gunnar Solskjaer seemed almost charmed, clapping his hands and offering an encouraging thumbs-up.

Much was made of Fred following his arrival from Shakhtar Donetsk for £52 million in 2018 and it is thought Jose Mourinho sought to use him as a means to complement Paul Pogba in a retooled midfield.

That did not come to pass. Solskjaer’s arrival partway through the season saw the improvement of several players, but Fred found himself lost in the shuffle. The following season saw a marked improvement and this season, his partnership with Scott McTominay is one of the most common pairings in the starting XI.

A solid performance in the Manchester derby continued his unbeaten run at the Etihad Stadium as a United player (three wins), yet there are still questions over his qualities. The eye test says Fred is solid at several things, but it can be harder to see what made him the subject of interest from United and Manchester City three years ago.

Fred is a strange United player, an expensive 28-year-old described with the plucky adjectives that may be used for an academy graduate. He is a curious player in a curious midfield.

What is Fred good at?
The 17th minute of the derby offered a good example of what Fred brings. John Stones attempts to play the ball to Kevin De Bruyne, which sees Fred spring to life.



He not only closes De Bruyne down but runs at an angle that allows him to intercept the Belgian’s pass.

After a brief moment of control, Fred hits a pass off his left foot to Marcus Rashford.




Rashford cuts into a more central area and has a shot from distance that Ederson saves.

The reverse angle shows that Fred is smart enough to begin moving towards De Bruyne as Stones makes his pass…

…and he pauses and checks himself when the ball reaches De Bruyne.




It would have been easy for Fred to continue his run and attempt to make the tackle but, perhaps realising he would not get to the City man in time for his first touch, wisely checks himself rather than rush in.

This pause gives Fred multiple options: rather than risk being dribbled or passed around, he is in a good position to mark the space and make an interception, while still being in a good position to continue pressing De Bruyne if the Belgian tries to pass or carry the ball forwards. In the space of a few seconds, Fred twice made correct decisions as to how to turn the ball over and then feed Rashford.

This is a footballer making intelligent decisions quickly.


Fred’s style broadly falls into what is known in his native Brazil as a “segundo volante” — a do-everything defensive midfielder who tends to do his tackling and interceptions all over the pitch, rather than sit in central areas and work as a stopper or destroyer, known as a “primeiro volante” (the volante name derives from former San Lorenzo and Napoli defensive midfielder Carlos Volante).

They can do defensive and attacking actions, but players such as Fred are best when paired with an outright defensively minded player (the primeiro volantes), and often thrive with a more attacking player ahead. If Pep Guardiola had signed him, Fred would likely have been used similarly to Rodri or Ilkay Gundogan.

This statistical radar, courtesy of Statsbomb and assessed against the league average for a player in his position, helps illustrates the type of game Fred is bringing to United in 20-21.




Statsbomb radars identify important aspects of a player’s role and evaluate how many times a player performs each of those actions per 90 minutes. Typically, the closer the colour is towards the outer edge of the circle, the more a player performs that action. The larger the total area of a radar covered, the more aspects a player has to their game.

The above radar tells us:

  • His standout skill is interceptions — he does it at least twice a game (2.49 possession-adjusted interceptions per 90 minutes — the 11 o’clock spike on the radar), such as the chance he seized from De Bruyne.
  • He is above average at tackling, pressuring the ball and regaining it from his pressing (all the shapes from 10 to 8 o’clock counter-clockwise). Fred’s energy and match reading sense make him a valuable presence in a team that can be weak out of possession.
  • He is slightly above average (nearly all of the shapes from 1 to 4 o’clock on the radar) on the ball. Fred’s numbers for deep progressions, expected goals (xG) assisted and xG build-up are all above average, but suggest a player who prefers to work in the first two-thirds of the pitch.
Here is what your gut probably tells you when watching Fred:

  • At his best, he is a perpetual motion machine, rather than an outright engine. He would be a fun player to pick up if you were a captain drafting a Premier League five-a-side team, but it would not be wise to build an 11-a-side one around him.

What is Fred not so good at?
When he does things like this — against West Ham United in the FA Cup.



He spots Bruno Fernandes out wide and attempts to play a first time, left-footed pass but that is…



…not good. Leading to one of Fred’s more common facial expressions, that of apology.


Fred has the match-reading intelligence to nearly make the correct decision every time, but he is similar to Victor Lindelof in that he can lack the physicality and quickness of touch to consistently execute his ideas.

Fred’s software is near cutting edge, but his execution of below-the-shoulders moves needs work.


The Watford striker Troy Deeney once claimed Fred’s need to make multiple touches means he is often a pressing trigger for opponents: you can dispossess him when he is taking a third or fourth touch, or you cajole him into misplacing simple passes.

Although this might have been true in the 2018-19 season and early weeks of 2019-20 when he clearly had issues with the pace of the English game, Fred has noticeably improved.

He looks visibly stronger and capable of shrugging off an initial challenge if he needs time to sort his feet out. Fred’s passing range is good, he can send the ball 20-30 yards, but his passing vocabulary — as in how he strings together sequences of play to contribute to his team’s build-up — needs work.

Watch him for long enough and you can see him assess potential passes and decide against them as he does not trust his ability to pull off the pass. This can sometimes help United keep the ball but it can also hinder. Attacking moves fizzle out with his reluctance to release the ball. He has been holding extra training sessions with United coach and former midfield metronome Michael Carrick to work on his shooting and passing.

Fernandes has said his team-mate joins himself, Juan Mata, Marcus Rashford and Alex Telles in the free-kick sessions. That said, Fernandes’ admission “Fred also stays, but it’s just to have fun with us” says it all about his chances of getting on them in matches.

This brings us to Fred’s shooting, which can best be explained as rushed.


Fred has scored one Premier League goal (two more in the Europa League) and he has a shooting map comprised mostly of potshots from outside the area. He was not originally envisioned to be a goal-getting midfielder and although he is underperforming his xG (Fred “should” have scored about three league goals by now), he is rarely picking up the ball and shooting from good areas of the pitch.

This becomes clearer when you look at his shot map this season, where Solskjaer’s thumbs up at Chelsea makes a lot more sense.




The majority of Fred’s shooting opportunity comes from his placement on United’s corners. At 5ft 7in, he is often stationed outside of the area when the ball is delivered, so he gets onto clearances from the opposition before attempting to shoot through a crowd of bodies to score (similar to Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg’s approach to shooting while playing for Southampton).

Fred’s shots are of the low-risk/low-reward, mildly-sensible game-management variety: he somehow pulls out a golazo from range (which has not happened this season) or the shot is blocked, deflected or saved.

Take a look at United’s attacking shape when he got onto the ball for his shot against Chelsea. There are no real options, so Fred tries his luck.

Fred’s outside-the-box efforts are not terrible. Whether they are deflected and win another corner, or give the opposition a goal kick, they do give United’s defence a low level of protection to the counter-attack. Teams cannot spring Demba Ba-style counter-attacks in Europe this season off corners when Fred does this.

Fred registered no shots against City, which might have been a coaching instruction. It is an open secret that Fred is not the best shooter with his right foot, which makes his effort against Chelsea more surprising. In the nicest way, Fred might be the youngest 28-year-old in the Premier League: you can clearly see parts of his game improve as he gets acclimatised to the pace of the English game.


What does this mean for United?
It was in October that we theorised the “McFred” combination of him and McTominay was the best-balanced midfield pivot in Solskjaer’s preferred 4-2-3-1.

The duo may lack the ability to make line-breaking passes and the ability to redirect traffic of the Project Restart duo of Pogba and Nemanja Matic, but Solskjaer is using “McFred” more.

They are hard-working mobile midfielders, with the £52 million man more talented in interceptions and the Scotland international showing qualities in the tackle. They look better off as No 8 box-to-box midfielders rather than No 6-style defensive players. McTominay’s increased attacking output this season is perhaps the clearest sign of this, but the way the duo cover for each other gives a degree of balance that Solskjaer enjoys, especially in bigger games.

There are drawbacks, notably in how neither man is consistent in their creative output or in their execution of passes during build-up play. McTominay tends to stand in what is known as “shadow cover” occupying areas of the pitch too close to opposition players making potential passes to him harder, while Fred’s passing is often erratic. Solskjaer alleviates this problem by empowering Fernandes to be more aggressive in his passes forwards, and the playmaker often drifts left-to-right to help the wide players make the passing triangles and diamonds that Fred and McTominay could be doing — although these sorts of runs have been falling in recent weeks.

Fred is a willing runner, but he can be overwhelmed when he is paired with Matic, who is less mobile and prefers to drop deeper. His partnership in a two with Pogba is a double-edged sword: the Frenchman easing the creative burden with his line-breaking passes while giving Fred more defensive responsibility.

His on-field relationship with Donny van de Beek seems to have teething issues; as we wrote here after their last start together, the Dutchman makes several runs into areas of the field that go missing as they fall outside the Brazilian’s passing capabilities.

These are Fred-based problems as well as issues with United as a whole. Solskjaer’s experiments with a midfield diamond fell by the wayside as he lacks a mobile player, skilled in tackling and passing to sit at the base of the four. Fred is best roaming the pitch making interceptions, McTominay looks better closer to goal and Matic is 32, unable to cover ground as he did during his 2015-to-2017 peak.

United’s starting XI has issues, stemming from their lack of specialised personnel in key areas. Solskjaer has done well to get two players to do the work of one man, but eventually, changes need to come.

Which brings us to…

What happens next?
Fred has done well to turn himself from a potential flop to one of the (near) ever-presents.

He is a good asset and one reason the club is operating at a top-four contender/Europa League favourite level. If United wish to take the jump and become genuine contenders for the Premier League and Champions League, then Fred will have to improve his execution on and off the ball, or United will find a replacement for him in the starting line-up through the transfer window.

The Athletic does not believe the club are actively looking for a successor, but if someone is going to take the midfielder’s place they are likely to be an out-and-out defensive midfielder, a No 6.

Fred is an erratic defensive box-to-box player often playing next to another inconsistent midfielder in McTominay. Together, they shield a back four that has ambitions of playing with a high line, but lacks the recovery pace if caught on the transition, and ahead of the duo is a Portuguese playmaker making enough creative passes for everyone.

Fred is a needed — if sometimes — frustrating cog in a strangely dysfunctional side, with the skill set and mindset to be a benefit to United’s squad for years, even if the team do make the jump and become more functional in their playing rhythms.

There is a reason the United manager gave him a thumbs up after shooting wide. There is a decent hard-working player in Fred who is getting better with encouragement and a clear role.

The Brazilian might not be the final piece in unlocking Pogba and turbo-charging United to supercar levels, but he does have value keeping things ticking along. He is not big or flashy, but he is Fred.
You clearly took alot of time over this post so respect for that.

But veiled (i think) excuses for

“Fred’s shots are of the low-risk/low-reward”. What ? Well high risk of failure.

“Fred’s outside-the-box efforts are not terrible. “ “they do give United’s defence a low level of protection to the counter-attack.”
What? So Fred shooting protects our defence?

“ Fred might be the youngest 28-year-old in the Premier League:” What? Well he is probably the same age as all the other 28-year-olds

Maybe not the best measure but I sometimes imagine players forced to play in a game out of position. Fred would not be in my team.

Dont care about wages, transfer fee, doping ban or whatever. Just know that there are direct replacements that would improve anything he offers.
 

NZT-One

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OK. I’m a direct person so, to say, we have polarized view on Fred.

If you think he “quickly” became one of the first names on Ole’s team sheet after a being “pretty dire” , can you highlight some examples of this.

I just see a player who ball watches, has no awareness , cannot shoot , cannot take corners, brilliant in front of defence to take the ball and square pass 10yds.

Would NEVER be first name on my teamsheet (although probably not last either)
I can totally understand your standpoint.

I think, Fred has the advantage of being pretty reliable (in comparison to Pogba and Matic). There are not a lot 9 of 10 performances, but there are no 2 of 10 as well. If nothing works, he will still cover the most ground.
I think his passing is just fine, I like that he is pretty positive, he doesn't shy away from risks (I think, that is something, Ole encourages his midfielders) and by the utilization of his workrate he helps to connect defense and attack by always trying to provide an outlet.

It goes without saying that I realize, that he is not particular strong with shooting, crossfield passes, tackling and sometimes positioning. It is difficult to see a clear role for him as he neither resembles an N'didi, an Gattuso, a Carrick or an Vidal. But knowing all that I don't see him as a weak point within this side. Because he helps us transitioning from attack to defend and the other way around. There are surely a lot of players who can provide similar services and more but currently we only have this set and it seems like Pogba will leave. I would be fine having Fred there while evaluating what Garner, Galbraith, Levitt and Mejbri are up to.

Hopefully we will find common ground by stating that against some teams, it shouldn't be both him and McTominay for 90 minutes because some matches emphasize the weak points in his skillsets. But this applies to everybody. I remember Carrick crumbling in the early days of systematic pressing. But then for me the manager comes into play to adjust his team and the way of playing.
 
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