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2021-22 Performances


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jesperjaap

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Is definately for me better further forward than in that pivot, either way not good enough for either role.

I like his energy, but looking through open eyes in all honesty, he is especially considering the fee, probably the worst central midfielder we have signed for the club in my lifetime. Simply isnt good enough in so many facets of his game.
 

criticalanalysis

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Is definately for me better further forward than in that pivot, either way not good enough for either role.

I like his energy, but looking through open eyes in all honesty, he is especially considering the fee, probably the worst central midfielder we have signed for the club in my lifetime. Simply isnt good enough in so many facets of his game.
Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger both say hi. Both players, who I admittedly believed should have got more game time but in terms of performances by virtue of not actually being on the pitch are probably 'worst' transfers.

Fred has lots of downs but also lots of ups and he's still going to be a useful squad player if used properly. By no means is he a disastrous buy. Not yet anyways.
 

jesperjaap

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Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger both say hi. Both players, who I admittedly believed should have got more game time but in terms of performances by virtue of not actually being on the pitch are probably 'worst' transfers.

Fred has lots of downs but also lots of ups and he's still going to be a useful squad player if used properly. By no means is he a disastrous buy. Not yet anyways.
Schweinsteiger cost very little and was past it without a doubt. Schneiderlin was definately a bad buy. But for me, people still joke abot Djemba Djemba and Klerberson.....Fred is on that level of performance, worse than the likes of Neil Webb and dont forget he cost £50m which was a big fee.

Genuinely, tell me what the "ups" are that make him a useful player? Im not saying that nonchalantly as I really see nothing in his game but energy? Passing, shooting, awareness, intelligence, strength........in my eyes all these traits are just really really poor with Fred
 

Archi

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Schweinsteiger cost very little and was past it without a doubt. Schneiderlin was definately a bad buy. But for me, people still joke abot Djemba Djemba and Klerberson.....Fred is on that level of performance, worse than the likes of Neil Webb and dont forget he cost £50m which was a big fee.

Genuinely, tell me what the "ups" are that make him a useful player? Im not saying that nonchalantly as I really see nothing in his game but energy? Passing, shooting, awareness, intelligence, strength........in my eyes all these traits are just really really poor with Fred
Im sorry but this is just bullshit. Fred had a very solid 2019. Kleberson and Djemba barely played a game between them
 

fergiewherearethou

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Schweinsteiger cost very little and was past it without a doubt. Schneiderlin was definately a bad buy. But for me, people still joke abot Djemba Djemba and Klerberson.....Fred is on that level of performance, worse than the likes of Neil Webb and dont forget he cost £50m which was a big fee.

Genuinely, tell me what the "ups" are that make him a useful player? Im not saying that nonchalantly as I really see nothing in his game but energy? Passing, shooting, awareness, intelligence, strength........in my eyes all these traits are just really really poor with Fred
Overall he does not worth 50M and he is not a top player but he is certainly better than Kleberson and Djemba Djemba.
He had his good moments, sometimes he just does a brilliant interception or a very good pass, but those moment are so rare.
 

Jeppers7

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You just never know what you’re going to get from Fred. Awful vs Brighton, great vs Leeds, awful vs AM. Same pattern throughout his career pretty much with the highs being lower than the Leeds game generally. Inconsistent at best.

Running around is only so useful, when you’re rushing or the wrong side it’s useless. When you can’t play the right pass at the right time....it’s useless.
 

Oldtraffordboy

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He was hung out to dry yesterday

Bruno and Pogba miles away from him up the pitch, and he was getting awful passes fired into him from the defence.

No coincidence that the balance of the team and his performance improved after the substitutions.

Also set Bruno on his way with a good little pass round the corner in the build up to the goal.
 

Litch

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Fans might think he is shit but interesting the managers continue not to. Maybe because whatever his failings (and he’s is not alone) his positive influence in winning games. Ole seen it, Carrick seen it and RR can see it. The bigger the game, the bigger the performance and his influence in that moment. Get your moaning about how shite he is ready for when the new manager comes in, I fully expect Fred to start under him too irrespective of who we sign. Watch this space.
 

captaincantona

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He is as much of a 6 as Pogba is but because he is busier and more hard working he finds himself further back more often.

Without McTominay, Matic was the only 6 we should have considered and then choose between Pogba/Fred/Bruno as the 8s. He was shit but he always has been as a lone 6. He has a poor first touch and is weak on the ball so playing out with him as the deepest midfielder is reckless. He doesn’t know how to do it. See the difference when Matic came on, knowing to come really deep centrally, moving the CBs left and right and allowing the full backs to push further up. It was Night and day. While Matic can’t last 90 minutes, he is the only player who knows how to do this role. For this season at least, our experiment of Fred as a lone 6 should end here.

That said, I think he is excellent as an 8 and gives us that urgency further up the field to press high and turnover the ball where it matters. It’s not rocket science...play the kid where he fits best.
 

bugmat

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Schweinsteiger cost very little and was past it without a doubt. Schneiderlin was definately a bad buy. But for me, people still joke abot Djemba Djemba and Klerberson.....Fred is on that level of performance, worse than the likes of Neil Webb and dont forget he cost £50m which was a big fee.

Genuinely, tell me what the "ups" are that make him a useful player? Im not saying that nonchalantly as I really see nothing in his game but energy? Passing, shooting, awareness, intelligence, strength........in my eyes all these traits are just really really poor with Fred
This is pureed BS. He has more G+A than most in or current squad this season. Was integral in a team that came (a distant but still) 2nd in the league and reached a European final. No matter how we look down on that competition he was integral and very few teams ever reach finals. He starts for a major international side.

Perhaps you need spectacles?
 

bugmat

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Yes because only Fred could have played that 2 second piece of play, and nobody else. :lol:
Probably - because everyone else would've stopped moving after the first header he made and so wuoldn't have been there for the return from ronaldo to continue the sequence.

You do try hard though I must say - relentless! I'll trust RR, Carrick, Tito and any other real coach before the experts on here :lol:
 

lex talionis

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Amigos, the entire squad looked shellshocked from the first minute of the game, Fred included. But once we came out in the second half still only down 1-0 we started coming together, Fred included.
 

Sylar

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He did well for our goal, really well. He was isolated with no help at all especially in the first half.
The one thing i like that he does is always looks for the ball and gives the CBs an option.
 

Still ill

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Schweinsteiger cost very little and was past it without a doubt. Schneiderlin was definately a bad buy. But for me, people still joke abot Djemba Djemba and Klerberson.....Fred is on that level of performance, worse than the likes of Neil Webb and dont forget he cost £50m which was a big fee.

Genuinely, tell me what the "ups" are that make him a useful player? Im not saying that nonchalantly as I really see nothing in his game but energy? Passing, shooting, awareness, intelligence, strength........in my eyes all these traits are just really really poor with Fred
What a horrendous post. On a level with Kleberson and Djemba-Djemba and below Neil Webb?? The ravings of an absolute mentalist.
 

CloneMC16

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Haters will hate but yet again and not the first time this season, significantly had an influence in another goal. Not bad for a player who can’t pass, shoot or control the ball.
Agree and we would have lost both the Leeds and todays game….
I love seeing your defence of Fred on this thread and around the forum :cool:
 

united for life

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He did well for our goal, really well. He was isolated with no help at all especially in the first half.
The one thing i like that he does is always looks for the ball and gives the CBs an option.
made me think of the blunders between him and maguire :annoyed:

fred is not as bad as some portray actually, he is a decent squad player. Should not be thought of as a starter when contemplating the future of our squad. Good squad player, that’s it
 

jesperjaap

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Im sorry but this is just bullshit. Fred had a very solid 2019. Kleberson and Djemba barely played a game between them
Thst is a solid point regarding games and that is what makes it worse for me. He is a regular starter, so on the pitch regularly unlike those two who didnt perform so poorly for us simply as they were not on the pitch game in game out.

This is pureed BS. He has more G+A than most in or current squad this season. Was integral in a team that came (a distant but still) 2nd in the league and reached a European final. No matter how we look down on that competition he was integral and very few teams ever reach finals. He starts for a major international side.

3 goals and 3 assists so far this season hardly makes a defensive midfielder integral to our side, come on. I would agree with you that he has had good moments and performances for us at times in Europe during his time here

Perhaps you need spectacles?
What a horrendous post. On a level with Kleberson and Djemba-Djemba and below Neil Webb?? The ravings of an absolute mentalist.
It is an opnion, woul dhardly say it makes me a mentalist. i have been very fortunate to grow up through my time supportign the club with midfielders of Robson, Ince, Keane, Butt, Carrick. Of course some of these are all time greats almost impossible to replace, but do you genuinely believe a summer rebuild of this side and a new manager that if we are to produce a title chasing trophy hunting side, that Fred is in that starting eleven.

We seem to have fallen so low that fans are pleased and accept players purely for havign a good atitude and working hard, when they put in one good performance every 4/5 games.....that simply isnt good enough. These are players on big contracts that have cost millions of pounds and tell me who does Fred start for amongst the biggest clubs in Europe....us, thats it
 

Litch

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Thst is a solid point regarding games and that is what makes it worse for me. He is a regular starter, so on the pitch regularly unlike those two who didnt perform so poorly for us simply as they were not on the pitch game in game out.




It is an opnion, woul dhardly say it makes me a mentalist. i have been very fortunate to grow up through my time supportign the club with midfielders of Robson, Ince, Keane, Butt, Carrick. Of course some of these are all time greats almost impossible to replace, but do you genuinely believe a summer rebuild of this side and a new manager that if we are to produce a title chasing trophy hunting side, that Fred is in that starting eleven.

We seem to have fallen so low that fans are pleased and accept players purely for havign a good atitude and working hard, when they put in one good performance every 4/5 games.....that simply isnt good enough. These are players on big contracts that have cost millions of pounds and tell me who does Fred start for amongst the biggest clubs in Europe....us, thats it
I don’t understand why the debate is polarised to one player. If you applied the same logic to any position in this team including SAF, you’d meet yourself at the same position. Its all relative to the era and I’m old enough to remember fans moaning that Robo was always injured, Ince signing was equally a downgrade, Butt shouldn’t be anywhere near the first team and Carrick was slow, boring, too safe in his passing and didn’t score enough goals.

The issue isn’t about Fred or Scott, the issue is yes they shouldn’t poss be starting, it is those that should be not being consistently good enough and therefore going with players of less ability that you can trust. Good attitude and hard working should be the given but currently with some players it isn’t.

Again, why polarise the argument to one player, who currently even on their best day starts for big teams in Europe on theirs? The issues are much more than Fred and it’s interesting how people shift their narrative? What happened to he can’t shoot or be creative?
 

Bebestation

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In my personal opinion I feel that Fred is better than Anderson - arguably saying that whilst Anderson was one of my personal favourite United players.
 

MadDogg

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Schweinsteiger cost very little and was past it without a doubt. Schneiderlin was definately a bad buy. But for me, people still joke abot Djemba Djemba and Klerberson.....Fred is on that level of performance, worse than the likes of Neil Webb and dont forget he cost £50m which was a big fee.

Genuinely, tell me what the "ups" are that make him a useful player? Im not saying that nonchalantly as I really see nothing in his game but energy? Passing, shooting, awareness, intelligence, strength........in my eyes all these traits are just really really poor with Fred
Fred was our best midfielder in 19/20 and the first half of 20/21. In fact he was arguably our most consistent player throughout that period. His form has been very up and down in the 14 months since then (although name me one of our players who hasn't), but to put him at the level of Djemba Djemba and Kleberson?

Fred is one of the best pressing and ball-winning midfielders in the league. Last season Ndidi is the only midfielder who caused a significant more amount of turn-overs, with Kante and Allan being fractionally ahead as well. And he's doing that with midfield partners who are all (even McTominay) significantly below average in that regard. And those three midfielders I mentioned that managed to do more defensively than Fred...Fred beats all three in pretty much every ball-playing stat available. More passes in total, more long passes (while also being more accurate with them), more progressive passes, more key passes, more expected assists, more actions leading to a shot. In fact Fred beats most midfielders in all those stats as he's comfortably above average in all of them.

Is he perfect? Of course not. And as I said he's been quite inconsistent since January 2021, but he's nowhere near as bad as some make out. It's also worth noting that he's spent almost his entire time at the club being played somewhat out of position as our deeper midfielder, with that only changing since Rangnick has come in and recognised that he would be more effective in a more aggressive role (ie. the same role that Kante plays, and that Fred himself plays for Brazil where he's first choice now).
 

jesperjaap

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Fred was our best midfielder in 19/20 and the first half of 20/21. In fact he was arguably our most consistent player throughout that period. His form has been very up and down in the 14 months since then (although name me one of our players who hasn't), but to put him at the level of Djemba Djemba and Kleberson?

Fred is one of the best pressing and ball-winning midfielders in the league. Last season Ndidi is the only midfielder who caused a significant more amount of turn-overs, with Kante and Allan being fractionally ahead as well. And he's doing that with midfield partners who are all (even McTominay) significantly below average in that regard. And those three midfielders I mentioned that managed to do more defensively than Fred...Fred beats all three in pretty much every ball-playing stat available. More passes in total, more long passes (while also being more accurate with them), more progressive passes, more key passes, more expected assists, more actions leading to a shot. In fact Fred beats most midfielders in all those stats as he's comfortably above average in all of them.

Is he perfect? Of course not. And as I said he's been quite inconsistent since January 2021, but he's nowhere near as bad as some make out. It's also worth noting that he's spent almost his entire time at the club being played somewhat out of position as our deeper midfielder, with that only changing since Rangnick has come in and recognised that he would be more effective in a more aggressive role (ie. the same role that Kante plays, and that Fred himself plays for Brazil where he's first choice now).
We all have different opinions, I am not goign to deride you having an opposite one. I do pretty much totally disagree with the vast majority of your response. I do however agree, he is definately better in a more aggresive role further forward and that is where his better moments have come from. He did improve last year too, but the level he was at before was terrible and I dont agree he rose to anywhere near the level you are suggesting
 

jesperjaap

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I don’t understand why the debate is polarised to one player. If you applied the same logic to any position in this team including SAF, you’d meet yourself at the same position. Its all relative to the era and I’m old enough to remember fans moaning that Robo was always injured, Ince signing was equally a downgrade, Butt shouldn’t be anywhere near the first team and Carrick was slow, boring, too safe in his passing and didn’t score enough goals.

The issue isn’t about Fred or Scott, the issue is yes they shouldn’t poss be starting, it is those that should be not being consistently good enough and therefore going with players of less ability that you can trust. Good attitude and hard working should be the given but currently with some players it isn’t.

Again, why polarise the argument to one player, who currently even on their best day starts for big teams in Europe on theirs? The issues are much more than Fred and it’s interesting how people shift their narrative? What happened to he can’t shoot or be creative?
This is a good and fair post. Many look back at players with rose tinted glasses forgetting there opinions at the time. I mean Robson was so often injured that was frustration rather than a criticism though from reading the drinking culture at the time he probably didnt help himself in that regard. And lets be honest anybody was a downgrade on Robson. I stil feel ince is one of the most under appreciated players for both club and country.

I will admit and still stand by criticisms I had of Carrick at the time. I do think he passed sideways too much and was caught in possesion in his early days at the club. I think by far his best foottball for us was in te second half of his time here when he really matured in to a top player.

And yes the issues are far bigger than Fred, they are all over the place. People were saying with Varane signing our midfield woudl improve feeling mroe secure with whats behind them. Was always rubbish, we have full backs out of position, wingers not trackign back....so they are under a lot of pressure in the middle of the park, little doubting that.....but I still stand by my orginal point and a couple of goals and assists dont change that. Fred cant pass, cant shoot, isnt very creative, isnt strong, isnt intelligent, he isnt good enough. He is another example of poor recruitment, spending big money on average players
 

jesperjaap

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Anderson was definitely more talented but talent without real application is useless at the highest level. I loved ando too.
Yes ANderson had the ability to realyl be world class. He never quite took things by the scruff of the neck to move on to that level. But saying that, peopel forget ANderson of the first coupel of years here. He did well. produced far better performances in that period than Fred. Its a shame he never went on and a shame in a way he stayed here so long as I think we remember him too well for the clowning and not preforming well enough for a long long time, he was quality for 18months here, there are not many in this current squad I think we can say that about and some of them have been here years
 

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Yes ANderson had the ability to realyl be world class. He never quite took things by the scruff of the neck to move on to that level. But saying that, peopel forget ANderson of the first coupel of years here. He did well. produced far better performances in that period than Fred. Its a shame he never went on and a shame in a way he stayed here so long as I think we remember him too well for the clowning and not preforming well enough for a long long time, he was quality for 18months here, there are not many in this current squad I think we can say that about and some of them have been here years
I kept the faith with Ando until maybe his second last season with us. He’d come back and get better and better once he got fit and then he’d just break down again. I do think we shouldn’t have tried to turn him into a box to box when it was clear he didn’t have the body for it. He broke his leg before he came here too I think. When we signed him I remember the Brazil manager saying that he is freakishly good youngster who could be one of the best in the world. I think Fergie saw that too. No way he’d just have been kept around for the laughs. His talent was enormous.

Back to Fred I genuinely don’t think he’s any worse than Henderson or Gini or someone like that. He’s just playing in a weak midfield without much synergy for lack of a better word. Just not a 6. A box to box who would be very handy if we pressed as a unit
 

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We all have different opinions, I am not goign to deride you having an opposite one. I do pretty much totally disagree with the vast majority of your response. I do however agree, he is definately better in a more aggresive role further forward and that is where his better moments have come from. He did improve last year too, but the level he was at before was terrible and I dont agree he rose to anywhere near the level you are suggesting
Fred's first season (18/19) was truly terrible. Everything you say about him was true in that season. But I find it strange that you say he improved last year, when in reality last year was a decline from the level he was at in the 18 months between 18/19 and the start of 2021. It just feels like you're completely forgetting about that period and only remembering his first season and the last year. Fred was never our best player, but he was one of our most consistent players (if not the most consistent) in those 18 months.
 

Litch

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This is a good and fair post. Many look back at players with rose tinted glasses forgetting there opinions at the time. I mean Robson was so often injured that was frustration rather than a criticism though from reading the drinking culture at the time he probably didnt help himself in that regard. And lets be honest anybody was a downgrade on Robson. I stil feel ince is one of the most under appreciated players for both club and country.

I will admit and still stand by criticisms I had of Carrick at the time. I do think he passed sideways too much and was caught in possesion in his early days at the club. I think by far his best foottball for us was in te second half of his time here when he really matured in to a top player.

And yes the issues are far bigger than Fred, they are all over the place. People were saying with Varane signing our midfield woudl improve feeling mroe secure with whats behind them. Was always rubbish, we have full backs out of position, wingers not trackign back....so they are under a lot of pressure in the middle of the park, little doubting that.....but I still stand by my orginal point and a couple of goals and assists dont change that. Fred cant pass, cant shoot, isnt very creative, isnt strong, isnt intelligent, he isnt good enough. He is another example of poor recruitment, spending big money on average players
Again not polarising it to Fred, how can you dismiss goals and assists. It’s comments like this that just reinforce how people have agenda‘s about certain players with broad brush comments. Football Is all about opinions but anyone who thinks that a professional footballer from the age of 12 year old can blag his way out of a huge population of quality footballers to play for Man Utd at the age of 28 and basically just run around with the utmost respect to you, one is utterly disrespectful and the second if they understood football opinion, is absolutely ridiculous. Some fans really need to think before they post such comments because if that is the case, we might as well sack RR now for playing such a footballer.

Fred was never signed as the answer and the fee was relative to that time. How about Chelsea spending 70m on a goalkeeper or Arsenal 70m on a winger? You think Keita was better value than Fred at 50m to Liverpool?
 

Litch

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I kept the faith with Ando until maybe his second last season with us. He’d come back and get better and better once he got fit and then he’d just break down again. I do think we shouldn’t have tried to turn him into a box to box when it was clear he didn’t have the body for it. He broke his leg before he came here too I think. When we signed him I remember the Brazil manager saying that he is freakishly good youngster who could be one of the best in the world. I think Fergie saw that too. No way he’d just have been kept around for the laughs. His talent was enormous.

Back to Fred I genuinely don’t think he’s any worse than Henderson or Gini or someone like that. He’s just playing in a weak midfield without much synergy for lack of a better word. Just not a 6. A box to box who would be very handy if we pressed as a unit
I think we tired to make Aldo more of a combative Keano type player and lack of professionalism off the pitch hindered his ability on it.
You have to hand it to Liverpool, the majority of their players basically most of the top 7 or 8 teams could have signed inc Henderson and Gini but they don’t put round bags in square holes and have a system of playing based on players strengths not weaknesses.
We play Fred out of position then say he’s shit when we have seen Pogs and Bruno in similar roles, and have been equally shit but that’s because they don’t have a proper CDM. Fred plays at 8, goals and assist in the very few games he’s actually been allowed to play that far forward….he’s still shit.
 

jesperjaap

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Again not polarising it to Fred, how can you dismiss goals and assists. It’s comments like this that just reinforce how people have agenda‘s about certain players with broad brush comments. Football Is all about opinions but anyone who thinks that a professional footballer from the age of 12 year old can blag his way out of a huge population of quality footballers to play for Man Utd at the age of 28 and basically just run around with the utmost respect to you, one is utterly disrespectful and the second if they understood football opinion, is absolutely ridiculous. Some fans really need to think before they post such comments because if that is the case, we might as well sack RR now for playing such a footballer.

Fred was never signed as the answer and the fee was relative to that time. How about Chelsea spending 70m on a goalkeeper or Arsenal 70m on a winger? You think Keita was better value than Fred at 50m to Liverpool?
He has scored three goals and three assists, sure its a decent return, how on earth that does that justify him being a consistent quality performer in 30-40games this season, its 1 of each every 10 games?

What an earth are you on about blagging his way as my opinion. I am not saying he has come out of the pub. I am saying his quality has been nowehere near good enough for the club the vast majority of his time here and that makes him a poor signing. I dont understand blind loyalty to players as they are in our shirt. I support the club and want us to be successful, if there are plyares wearing the shirt I dont believe are worthy of it for there quality and performances, I have every right to give that opinion.

RR has to use the playes he has at his disposal as he wasnt able to sign anybody. Say about sacking managers again in twelve months as I tell you now, neither McTominay or Fred will be our first choice starters at that point if we actually do what we should have done in the summer and signed two central midfielders that are of the right mould, VDB never was. Everyman and his dog is saying the priority this summer AGAIN is for us to sign players in central midfield, I am no tpolarising Fred as being the weak link, only Matic is capable of playing there for me and he is past his best....but yes, I think Fred is out worst central midfielder in terms of his intelligence and ability. Somebosdy earlier did say we havent used him properly as he is better more aggresive slightly further forward and I can see that as a valid point.

Dont tell me I dont understand football merely because I see a footballer and he isnt alone that simply isnt good enough to be starting for this side if we are going to win trophies.I am not pinpointing this at Fred as just him, there are far better playres here doing no better as the attitude and effort isnt there, Fred has that, should be a bare minimum though nota postive....but what have we won then since he has been at the club starting most weeks, nothing.

Our whole midfield has been so woeful for years but almost any fan ourside of our club finds it laughable people being happy with Fred, comparing McTominay to Rice, buildign a side around Pogba etc etc the last few years.

As for your last paragraph, what exactly is your point? Yes Chelsea and Arsenal have thrown horrendous amounts of money at terrible signings, how does that make us spending £50m on Fred any better exactly?
 

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He made three mistakes in the first two minutes and I thought it was going to be one of those games, but he got his shit together after that. In theory he should have been the correct midfielder to sub off as the other two were performing better, but in reality both Matic and Pogba were coming to the end of their energy so we probably needed to sub one of them instead and keep Fred on.
 

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Bohemians 1905
Great energy but overall not good enough. A squad player at best
Just another stupid post, running the same agenda without watching the game. He was easily one of our best players till the moment he was subbed, because for some reason everyone thinks Matic and Pogba provide better passing platform from deep. But We've seen it before Fred is a very decent passer and much faster than both, great in combination and recycles the ball very quickly, when in the fraction second he can't find a player in good position, with Matic and Pogba and then Bruno it came to Zombie football again.

If Fred stayed on the pitch I am sure, his pressing and ability to win the ball in advanced positions like he showed today almost just by himself, could give us some chance other than this zombie paced football with no movement. However let's face it Atletico game coming very soon, so it's better to keep him Fresh and for Watford, it seemed we could break the deadlock even with Matic. Didn't work
 

Augustus Gloop

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In retrospect, it was the wrong sub. Fred was still working hard while Pogba looked gassed.
I actually think Pogba should have came off because Fred was playing well. Fred releases the ball quicker and doesn’t take 5 too many touches like Pogba. Plus we know Fred is tenacious in trying to win the ball back. I think Ralf should have done a rinse/repeat of vs Leeds.
 
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