This thread is like when you decide to dump your girlfriend and even though she was no good for you, you think “maybe I’ve been a bit hasty here”
Fred | no longer Fred the Red but now a Turkish delight
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Effort and a smile seems enough for some
Post #867
Yes, he was shite and injury prone aged 32.
When the transfer will be officially completed?
Not exactly. He was 30 when he signed for Fenerbahce and just turned 31 by the time the season started.
He scored 10 goals in PL in his last season for us, playing 2100 minutes.
Even if that wasn't good enough for us, he would still have been a better striker than over half the PL teams' striker at the time.
He's gone to Turkey because no PL team and no other team in any top league wanted him. So that would suggest that nobody across 100 clubs thought he was good enough for them or was worth the money being asked, even though it was shag all compared to fees being spent on other players. Even Saudi Arabia didn't want him and they've been buying everyone else that was available.
Fenerbahce did, so that's where he's ended up. And that should end the story of Fred and the weird cohort of Man Utd fans who for some reason are still trying to convince themselves that he's still good enough for teams in the PL.
That is seriously not how it works. You're not factoring in his wages, age, how he will rapidly decline because his high energy is a big part of his game, etc.
Why did you not respond to my question regarding van Persie? No other club in the top leagues wanted him except Fenerbahce in the Turkish league, so according to your ridiculous logic, he must've been shit too and not good enough for the mighty Sunderland or West Bromwich?
If you truly, genuinely believe Fred couldn't play for Luton fecking Town, you're just lacking in football knowledge.
All of that is why nobody wanted him, it's why he's not worth signing. So in essence he's not good enough for them to justify the outlay.
RVP was pretty much finished, nobody wanted a 30 year old striker on his last legs looking for big money. So he took one last pay day in a less demanding league in Turkey like many other players before and after have done. Nothing wrong with that, he was a top player and had been playing in the PL for 11 years. He deserved his retirement package.
Man all this debate has me really torn : Should we sign Fred from Fener ?
So it's a matter of value, and not ability. That's all you needed to say, really. Have a good evening!
Im not angry at all, i'm starting to think you're a little bit "special" though.How angry are you? Jesus Christ
"Herp derp stats". Stats are literal facts. Are you going to deny facts or something? Two of the best teams in Premier League who finished 5th and 12th. Yes, @iHicksy, that makes perfect sense.
Your so called logic is a waste of everyone's time. You are so kneejerk it's not even funny, first you compare Fred with RvP based on the fact they played in the same league, despite one leading us to the title and being one of the best 9's in world football for years, then you come out with absolute nonsense that Liverpool and Chelsea aren't two of the best teams in the premier league because their most recent season they did poorly by their own high standards.
Like, do you actually hear yourself?
I'm sure according to you Newcastle are now better than Liverpool right? Since they finished ahead of them last year. I can't even be bothered with you. You're wrong, about literally everything.
Never a United level player, no matter how bad post SAF things got. It was evident after the new year ten Hag didn't like him and rightfully so.
He was 29 when he signed for us in August 2012 and then played for us for 3 seasons (1 each under SAF, Moyes and LvG). So yeah he was 32 when he left. Get your facts right.
Exactly! And I don't understand why lower clubs are being looked upon as of we will be doing them some favors by handing over our crap to them.
Money is way more important to those clubs and imagine spending so much of that on washed players who are gonna feck off in a couple years anyway.
Nah, it's more to do with his ability in relation to his value. Nobody wanted him because even at only 15m his ability doesn't justify the fee.
A relegated JWP is garnering more interest, on the verge of a potential 30m move to West Ham. If Fred was just relegated nobody in the PL want him either.
Poor signing. Not a bad player but not one United midfield badly needed. Spending 47-50m on him pushed back united midfield for next few years. Team needed a DM which Fred was not. His concentration was poor and the team suffered. The issue got fixed after 4 years with Casemiro. On hindsight United midfield could have been a beast if a player like Casemiro was next to Pogba.
I love Fred but he was inconsistent as feck
As you say, van Persie lead us to the title, so don't you think it's a bit strange that no club in the PL wanted to sign him? Even if he wasn't good enough for us, he'd be good enough for another PL club.
Why do you think I compare Fred and van Persie's abilities? That's not the point I'm trying to make, but it seems you're intentionally being too dumb to understand that. They were both cheap, and they were both signed by Fenerbahce. What's the difference?
I'd say Newcastle is better than Liverpool right now, yes. How is that a weird opinion? Newcastle have the better defense, midfield and attack. The main difference is that Liverpool have an incredible game changer in Salah, so if he's up for it, then he can make a big difference, but overall Newcastle are currently the better team. We'll see how Liverpool perform with their new signings.
You form your posts like an infuriated teenager. Get a grip.
Right. He was still a better striker than most of the strikers in the PL, so the whole point is actually why no other PL club wanted him.
And the answer is age. Exactly the same case with Fred. It's not because he's not good enough to play in the PL, but because it's not worth to pay the money for an aging midfielder.
One main stat I always look for in a defensive midfielder or defender is foul’s committed and dribbled past, combined with tackles attempted. Fred is one of the worst midfielder when it comes to dribbled past. Quite simply, no top team should rely on Fred as their most defensive minded midfielder.
A Mourinho buy.
What's his wage at Fenerbahce?You're a season ticket holder but somehow you watch all of Brighton's games
How exactly are Fred and Caicedo incomparable? Your posts are just unreadable rambling. You don't even know what you're saying.
No PL team wants Fred because he is approaching 31 and on high wages. Why should a Premier League club go for him when they can get a younger, better option with less wages?
Wish him well on his future. Wish it worked out better
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He's a good person. Always grateful for everything he has. Thanks Fred, best of luck in your next journey.
Hope he does all right at his new club. Never was United quality, he always gave his all, but even then was never good enough.
Yeap. Sometimes you dont need 11 superstars in a team. I bet he was the glue socially in the team when things were going too well.
Wish him the best.
Really likeable player, just didn’t fulfil the potential he offered here.
We definitely got some value out of him - he had some great performances and at times was a mainstay of the team. Some people talk about him as if he was awful every game which really wasn’t true.
Bit of a Jekyl and Hyde player for sure, some days he would be great other days really poor but he always seemed to have a bit of purpose. To be fair sometimes it wasn’t entirely his fault either; McFred just wasn’t a sensible pairing.
In the end we only seen a handful of performances by him of the level we actually require to kick on, and while he would have been a useful squad player it just made sense to move him on at this time.
I blame it on the revolving doors of managers we had over his career at United. If Pep saw something in him then he must have had potential. We just didnt manage to maximise it.
Agreed. I rate Fred much more highly than the approved Caf rating, but am prepared to trust ETH on this. I wish Fred the very best.
If he was half as good as you think someone in the premier league would have snapped him up. Six or seven clubs will be fighting relegation this season, 100 M + impact. Now along comes a player with stats like Caciedo, premier league top 4 and Brazil international pedigree, a player who controlled games against City and PSG and all for 15M. But no one is interested.
Why, because he is a liability, his mistakes cost games. He can’t be relied on to do simple things consistently. That means it’s harder for the whole team to focus on a disciplined system of play. Fred’s best moments might look better than midfielders from bottom half premier league clubs, but he couldn’t do the job they do week in week out. I think he would be a great squad player for a bottom half team, he could change games for them a couple of times and reignite a bit of energy etc. That’s probably a similar level to starting in Turkey.
I don't think he's that good, but the shit he gets on here is quite remarkable. I'm just defending him when people claim he's an awful passer. He's not. That's not the reason he's not a great midfielder. I never said he controlled games against PSG and City - that's not his game. He contributed heavily and was a big reason we won.
As for your second paragraph, you're both right and wrong. His mistakes have cost games, but you're making it look like that happened frequently. That's wrong. You should also remember that it was our own fault for putting Fred as a defensive midfielder, despite being very aware of his lack of strength and press resistance and that he had the odd pass in him every now and then. If we had played him in his role from the start and with a defensive midfielder next to him and not Scott McTominay, you'd see there would be fewer mistakes made. You're right in that he can't be relied on to do simple things consistently. That's his problem, and that's what seperates him from better midfielders, along with traits like lack of strength and press resistance. You should remember that Fred was exceptional at winning the ball high up the field, and then immediately initiating the counter. That would be huge for teams that don't really attack often, as their opponent likely would play a high line and Fred's running and harrassing would inevitably force a mistake and start a counter. That's how we've scored a fair amount of goals the last years.
This genuinely made me laugh. Do you watch other PL games other than United? What kind of midfielders do you think play in PL, and do you somehow think they don't make mistakes? What job could he not do week in week out? What about Luton's Ruddock Pelly mistake for Brighton's 3-1 goal yesterday? Or Konsa (although a defender) for Newcastle's goal? Or Declan Rice's pathetic jogging back when Elanga made that great run and assist?
Watch how many of the goals in PL are because defenders or midfielders don't bother to close down players or block shots. This is also where Fred was very useful, so you could argue while he also made some mistakes, he also prevented a lot of goals with tackling, blocking and closing down players before being able to shoot.
PL clubs don't want to spend 15m on a 30 year old player whose biggest asset is his energy and running. Why would they? These kind of players regress very quickly when they first start to regress. Look at Kanté. Only a club in Saudi Arabia was interested in signing him, and he was available on a free. He was even twice the player as Fred, but still when you take away his energy and running, you take away a major part of his game which inevitably makes him a worse player.
If Fred was a 21 year old available for €15m, of course PL clubs would be in for him.
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In the right football environment, Turkish wouldn't be a deal breaker
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