Red00012
Full Member
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2018
- Messages
- 12,263
He’s looking for a likeYou see, this kind of post is a complete waste of time. There's no point coming to the Frenkie thread with "move on".
He’s looking for a likeYou see, this kind of post is a complete waste of time. There's no point coming to the Frenkie thread with "move on".
Probably as Barca can’t afford to pay their debt back or operating costs whilst United can comfortablyAnyway. Can anyone explain of why Barca needs all these levers to get money, while United can have 500m in debt without sacrificing future TV rights and such? Thanks.
It’s to do with strict financial rules imposed by La liga. Obviously the PL doesn’t have such rules so United aren’t affected. Also, Barcas revenue has halved as a result of Covid. They were on course to be the first club in the world with 1bn revenue and were living as such so the downturn has hit them hard.Anyway. Can anyone explain of why Barca needs all these levers to get money, while United can have 500m in debt without sacrificing future TV rights and such? Thanks.
The Spanish League introduced it's own strict FFP rules last season, which precipitated the Messi move, it is based on turnover vs wage bill or something like it.Anyway. Can anyone explain of why Barca needs all these levers to get money, while United can have 500m in debt without sacrificing future TV rights and such? Thanks.
Thanks, man. Does it mean they're not-profitable for years? That's the only reason i can think of why bank just won't give them massive loan.Probably as Barca can’t afford to pay their debt back or operating costs whilst United can comfortably
We actually have less than £400m. And Barca have €1.4 billion of debt. Big difference there.Anyway. Can anyone explain of why Barca needs all these levers to get money, while United can have 500m in debt without sacrificing future TV rights and such? Thanks.
But are Barca one of them clubs that are literally too big and famous to fall? No matter what they're likely to never go bankruptWe actually have less than £400m. And Barca have €1.4 billion of debt. Big difference there.
To be honest I’m not that well versed with it all so I’m sure there’s plenty more to it. We live in debt though as the Glazers choose to do so whilst just paying off the absolute minimum (interest) each year. We could quite comfortably be debt free with what we generate if they had made a concerted effort to repay it rather than removing dividends to themselves each season but they’d rather not bother. Essentially leaving us operating in an overdraft which we don’t need to be in.Thanks, man. Does it mean they're not-profitable for years? That's the only reason i can think of why bank just won't give them massive loan.
So far as I understand it, our debt is secured against the value of the club and is on preferable terms and easily manageable when set against our revenue. Barca's debt was more than triple ours and due to the ownership structure I don't think they can use assets as collateral as easily as we can and so they wound up with a lot of debt on very poor terms and had their debt rating lowered during COVID which came at just about the worst possible time for them right on the heels of some massive expenditure.Anyway. Can anyone explain of why Barca needs all these levers to get money, while United can have 500m in debt without sacrificing future TV rights and such? Thanks.
I don’t think loans qualify as being part of turnover.Thanks, man. Does it mean they're not-profitable for years? That's the only reason i can think of why bank just won't give them massive loan.
I haven't seen that quality to make us chase him every single day of this summer. Good player? Of course. However, should we go for "good" and not what is better for our club and team.Don’t think many people will listen to that.
The Spanish League introduced it's own strict FFP rules last season, which precipitated the Messi move, it is based on turnover vs wage bill or something like it.
Barcelona have a massive wage bill, Utd still have one of the best wage bills against turnover in the prem, our debt no matter how much you hate the Glazer's for it is well managed and easily serviced by our turnover.
"The Levers" are just things that Barca can do to increase their turnover, thereby decreasing the % of their turnover taken by wages under the threshold, this is however short-termism as these are one off infuxes of cash not ongoing revenue streams
Thank you. So bank loan can't be used as part of revenue/turnover - wages ratio. But TV rights is part of generated revenue, thus they can just sell those. Yeh, that kinda explain it.It’s to do with strict financial rules imposed by La liga. Obviously the PL doesn’t have such rules so United aren’t affected. Also, Barcas revenue has halved as a result of Covid. They were on course to be the first club in the world with 1bn revenue and were living as such so the downturn has hit them hard.
You're right. Others had generously explain it clearly.I don’t think loans qualify as being part of turnover.
I didn't know that. That's even fecked up.We actually have less than £400m. And Barca have €1.4 billion of debt. Big difference there.
Yet they buy and buy and buy.We actually have less than £400m. And Barca have €1.4 billion of debt. Big difference there.
That's a really accessible and informative write up, thanks. The financial stuff goes way over my head usually.So far as I understand it, our debt is secured against the value of the club and is on preferable terms and easily manageable when set against our revenue. Barca's debt was more than triple ours and due to the ownership structure I don't think they can use assets as collateral as easily as we can and so they wound up with a lot of debt on very poor terms and had their debt rating lowered during COVID which came at just about the worst possible time for them right on the heels of some massive expenditure.
Moving forward they could go for austerity, signing cheap players or free agents and use the academy graduates and they briefly flirted with this at the beginning of last season. They stank up La Liga for 3 months and crashed out of the CL at the group stage and at that point they reversed course quickly deciding that austerity was too risky as if they missed out on future CL revenue it could exacerbate the financial problems and also their fans were close to rioting at the dreadful performances they were seeing. Their new strategy is you have to spend money to make money, the obstacle being they had none to spend and so could only obtain funds by mortgaging future TV rights. The strategy is incredibly high risk, there is a scenario where they win masses of trophies including CLs and revenue explodes as a result sweeping away their problems but there is also a scenario whereby they fail to reach the knockout stages again in 1 or 2 seasons or even miss out on CL altogether and any drop in revenue could be catastrophic to the financial house of cards they have constructed. It is fascinating to watch.
I only know this from the Civilisation games. Excellent quote!In for a penny in for a pound.
Or , as J Paul Getty famously said
”If you owe the bank $100 that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem.”
Yeah, no.He’s looking for a like
Ah good! They seem pretty fecked…You're right. Others had generously explain it clearly.
You'd think so... but they'll get out of it somehow, they always seem to manageAh good! They seem pretty fecked…
Their wage bill is or was 103% of their revenue.Anyway. Can anyone explain of why Barca needs all these levers to get money, while United can have 500m in debt without sacrificing future TV rights and such? Thanks.
Thanks for explaining, man. This is incredibly insane way of running the Club. And they've been wanting Messi to be back also. I can't just fathom of why their fans keep bury their heads in sand, and let their Club doing it.So far as I understand it, our debt is secured against the value of the club and is on preferable terms and easily manageable when set against our revenue. Barca's debt was more than triple ours and due to the ownership structure I don't think they can use assets as collateral as easily as we can and so they wound up with a lot of debt on very poor terms and had their debt rating lowered during COVID which came at just about the worst possible time for them right on the heels of some massive expenditure.
Moving forward they could go for austerity, signing cheap players or free agents and use the academy graduates and they briefly flirted with this at the beginning of last season. They stank up La Liga for 3 months and crashed out of the CL at the group stage and at that point they reversed course quickly deciding that austerity was too risky as if they missed out on future CL revenue it could exacerbate the financial problems and also their fans were close to rioting at the dreadful performances they were seeing. Their new strategy is you have to spend money to make money, the obstacle being they had none to spend and so could only obtain funds by mortgaging future TV rights. The strategy is incredibly high risk, there is a scenario where they win masses of trophies including CLs and revenue explodes as a result sweeping away their problems but there is also a scenario whereby they fail to reach the knockout stages again in 1 or 2 seasons or even miss out on CL altogether and any drop in revenue could be catastrophic to the financial house of cards they have constructed. It is fascinating to watch.
Because they want to believe Laporte that everything will be fine and it’s all the fault of the previous regime.Thanks for explaining, man. This is incredibly insane way of running the Club. And they've been wanting Messi to be back also. I can't just fathom of why their fans keep bury their heads in sand, and let their Club doing it.
We have Barca posters here just keep justifying their Club doing.
There was some rumour that Barca had missed the payment schedule to Liverpool for Coutinho and had passed it to some sort of agency so Liverpool still ended up with their money. Not sure how true that is but wouldnt surprise me.Edit. They also allegedly still owe money to Liverpool for Coutinho too
Sure but did you catch the last comment where he says he hopes Frenkie will do everything in his power to stay. He is selling the narrative. We want Frenkie but he must take a massive pay cut, if he does not don't blame us blame Frenkie for being greedy.
This is not all he said. He also said that Frenkie must reduce his salary if he want to stay.
DADDY WANT WANT DADDY WANT
Me too. Assuming you are referring to the blonde in the pic.DADDY WANT WANT DADDY WANT
Sure but did you catch the last comment where he says he hopes Frenkie will do everything in his power to stay. He is selling the narrative. We want Frenkie but he must take a massive pay cut, if he does not don't blame us blame Frenkie for being greedy.
Yes if course it comes with a condition, but a change from previous briefs where club asked him to leaveThis is not all he said. He also said that Frenkie must reduce his salary if he want to stay.
It’s not a problem to be in debt. Debt is a very good way to finance something, such as a new machine for your business. It only means that you owe someone money, such as a bank. The debt is repaid over a set time and with interest. For various reasons Barcelona have too much costs compared to their revenue and cannot pay the wages of their players. This is very, very serious and I am not sure it should even be defined as a debt. If you can’t pay your bills you are not in debt, you are bankrupt and your house will be confiscated. If a business was in Barcelonas situation it would be really, really bad. Probably restructure or bankruptcy and legal and financial consequences for the board and directors unless appropriate steps had been taken prior. Buying new players like no other club in Europe probably does not count as appropriate steps.Anyway. Can anyone explain of why Barca needs all these levers to get money, while United can have 500m in debt without sacrificing future TV rights and such? Thanks.
There has never been any statement from Laporta asking De Jong to leave.Yes if course it comes with a condition, but a change from previous briefs where club asked him to leave
This is the Barca spin though.Yes if course it comes with a condition, but a change from previous briefs where club asked him to leave
No it’s not! It’s reverse psychology to put pressure on him to go or accept a pay cut he has no intention of accepting!Yes if course it comes with a condition, but a change from previous briefs where club asked him to leave
Of course, if he bends over and takes takes the reported pay cut. It could happen but I think that would have been done weeks ago if he was committed to their cause. I still think he'll end up here, or somewhere other than Barca. Especially if they're trying to sign Bernardo Silva.