Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

[Kaos]

Well this has become a curious saga.

Solid sources are all saying we're now negotiating with Barca. You'd like to think there's a very good chance De Jong would accept joining us, otherwise I can't help but think how embarrassing and damaging it would be PR wise if we have a bid accepted only for the player to turn us down.

 

[pocco]

Even if we sign prime Xavi, we would still need another good midfielder to partner him anyway because neither Fred and McTominay are good enough. So we still need to sign 2 midfielders regardless whoever we sign, what's the difference?

Well the two main points (from what we know, which is probably feck all really) is that we apparently only want one midfielder. And I'm sort of connecting the dots and saying that FDJ is apparently a very niche player and a bit difficult to fit in. Alternatively we may have found a midfielder that can partner Fred for a year, but FDJ & Fred sounds a disaster. So it would probably have to be McTominay and FDJ, though his defensive awareness is pretty atrocious.

In fact, having read what I've just said, it's wrong because I'm talking as though we want to fix all the issues this summer. This is not going to be a short term rebuild so we may have to have square pegs in round holes for a further year at least.

Ignore me. I just hope he starts fulfilling his earlier potential and doesn't become a Pogba-type issue in getting the best out of him.

 

[Fooza]

Doesn't tielemans play in the same midfielder position? Could be a better/cheaper option who has played in the PL. Same age

 

[VP89]

Doesn't tielemans play in the same midfielder position? Could be a better/cheaper option with a player who has played in the PL. Same age

Do not rate that guy much

 

[Kaos]

Doesn't tielemans play in the same midfielder position? Could be a better/cheaper option with a player who has played in the PL. Same age

I don't think Tielemans offers the same creative output as De Jong does, that and he's been absolute pants this season. I'm pretty sure Leicester would try and fleece us again too so I'm not sure he'd even be a cheap option.

Neves maybe.

 

[bond19821982]

Doesn't tielemans play in the same midfielder position? Could be a better/cheaper option who has played in the PL. Same age

Tielemans and FDJ are different players .

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Well the two main points (from what we know, which is probably feck all really) is that we apparently only want one midfielder. And I'm sort of connecting the dots and saying that FDJ is apparently a very niche player and a bit difficult to fit in. Alternatively we may have found a midfielder that can partner Fred for a year, but FDJ & Fred sounds a disaster. So it would probably have to be McTominay and FDJ, though his defensive awareness is pretty atrocious.

In fact, having read what I've just said, it's wrong because I'm talking as though we want to fix all the issues this summer. This is not going to be a short term rebuild so we may have to have square pegs in round holes for a further year at least.

Ignore me. I just hope he starts fulfilling his earlier potential and doesn't become a Pogba-type issue in getting the best out of him.

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Even if he wants one midfielder, so after working with FDJ and knowing FDJ's strength and weakness, why did he still insist to sign FDJ and making him as priority if he's available then?

Pogba issue in here has always been no one knows to coach him and use him. If there is a coach that knows how to coach and use Pogba, would Pogba be an issue?

 

[Telsim]

Just go for Koopmeiners or Fabian Ruiz instead of chasing the white rabbit who doesn't even want to come here in the first place.

And even if he does I have a feeling this is going to be another high profile transfer that will eventually bomb while the alternatives get snapped up and prove better in the long run.

 

[Woziak]

If we have £120M to spend plus player sales why would we spend £73M on one unproven player in the PL, look he doesn’t want to come, I fear for ETH if he pursues this transfer, it’s all very similar to LVG I need this player to play the way I want and that Player was Daley Blind, who was a great guy, a decent united player but lacked the pace for the PL and looks good in the Dutch League where, let’s be honest , West Ham, Villa , Leicester and Brighton would all be competing to win it, so please a reality Check Mr ETH , don’t make the same mistakes as predecessors.

Julian Timber looks like a great signing with the pace needed for the PL, I’m not sure that paying £10-15M more than what we could potentially get Christian Errikssen, Ngolo Kante and Ruben Neves collectively is good business or a good start, Have we not learnt that 70-100M signings simply put too much pressure on the player and they just don’t work, mitigate the risk we have huge opportunities in paying lower transfer fees due to covid but can still offer decent wages to attract the right players to build a balanced squad,

Our new manager will soon find out that at united there is very little time for the honeymoon period, reputation is one thing but talk is cheap and you need to hit the ground running with PL proven players. A run like Ralph had in his last 10 games in Eric’s 10 games before the World Cup might mean that he doesn’t see out Christmas as by then Zidane, Ancelotti or Conte might be available again and Zidane ain’t going to a club where the transfer policy is run by the star player.

 

[pocco]

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Even if he wants one midfielder, so after working with FDJ and knowing FDJ's strength and weakness, why did he still insist to sign FDJ and making him as priority if he's available then?

I don't get your point. I have already said he obviously thinks he can get more out of him than others since Ajax. But I would be both shocked and surprised if he thinks he'll work with McTominay or Fred. Looks like he may want 2 midfielders, which would make more sense, if that tweet is correct. Previous things I've read say 1 CM, 1 ST, 1 CB & 1 RB.

The one point to make though is that FDJ doing well at the best team in a weak Eredivise doesn't = FDJ doing well here in the PL. There is an element of a punt from ETH because he and FDJ have no experience in the league. So I am surprised slightly that he is targetting a player that has only really done well in a weak league and has underwhelmed when given a chance at a top team.

 

[Woziak]

Just go for Koopmeiners or Fabian Ruiz instead of chasing the white rabbit who doesn't even want to come here in the first place.

And even if he does I have a feeling this is going to be another high profile transfer that will eventually bomb while the alternatives get snapped up and prove better in the long run.

Exactly Barcelona quoting €85-90M are we insane so they can go buy Ngolo Kante and Ruben Neves and still have €20M left over !

 

[bosnian_red]

Doesn't tielemans play in the same midfielder position? Could be a better/cheaper option who has played in the PL. Same age

Tielemans isn't a patch on Frenkie De Jong...
De Jong is the closest thing out there to Modrić pretty much, potential wise and talent wise. Tielemans is just a pretty standard decent midfielder but nothing special.

 

[Reapersoul20]

It's funny reading here that €80mill is insane and paying over the odds, then you check /r/barca and they are saying "we absolutely shouldn't sell for less than €100mill, he is a top 3 player in the team".

Very odd given that there seems to be an agreement from everyone that he never quite hit the heights he hit at Ajax since leaving.

 

[Woziak]

The lower the value the better. I just hope we sign him. Haven't watched him for Barcelona a lot but he has always impressed me playing for the Dutch national team, which one would imagine is similar to how ETH will utilize his talents.

At least on paper, we currently have what to offer FDJ. Not even taking the money into consideration, we have a manager he is familiar with and who appreciates his play. The said manager also is a bit of a planning freak, who has detailed views no what he wants to achieve and how to do it. A solid project plan seems to be way more valuable to players than being reported. Players like Kroos have said multiple times that the project is very important to them because they are singing for a big club and for a period of 4-5 years (not next year's CL as journos would have us believe). One of the most famous quotes of FDJ is when he asked the ref to give more added time because he wants to play more football. That was the ETH football he enjoyed so much and he just might be willing to relive that again.

Love your examples of players forced out of clubs and still being a success. ADM is being mentioned around a lot but it just did not work out for him with us due to multiple factors. He did play for PSG for 7 more years after leaving us, so it shows that, if things align, players can be happy playing for other club in another country. Many of the things regarding him are exact opposite of what the situation with FDJ is. New country, mentality, manager, style of play and even the club's demeanor contributed to his ultimate fall for us.

He’s simply not worth £73M in this or any other climate, especially when you have £120m plus player sales. Will he score 15/20 goals or 10/15 assists in the PL, simple answer , No!

He might improve our pattern of play, he may make us a better team he may also get overrun by the pace and power of the PL, we just don’t know and at £73M it’s simply too big a risk !

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I don't get your point. I have already said he obviously thinks he can get more out of him than others since Ajax. But I would be both shocked and surprised if he thinks he'll work with McTominay or Fred. Looks like he may want 2 midfielders, which would make more sense, if that tweet is correct. Previous things I've read say 1 CM, 1 ST, 1 CB & 1 RB.

Initially, I said when you feel there is major alarm bells ringing, just keep reminding yourself that this guy used to work under ten Hag and was successful as part of the key player.

So I'm trying to understand why do you think De Jong works under ten Hag is a major alarm bells ringing? Why do you see it as a problem that we have a coach who is proven to know how to use De Jong at best before? Unless your problem is ten Hag himself not De Jong?

 

[MUFC OK]

Like most I think it's imperative that we sign players that want to be here.

 

[Rake]

He’s simply not worth £73M in this or any other climate, especially when you have £120m plus player sales. Will he score 15/20 goals or 10/15 assists in the PL, simple answer , No!

He might improve our pattern of play, he may make us a better team he may also get overrun by the pace and power of the PL, we just don’t know and at £73M it’s simply too big a risk !

You might be right, but would 60mil be the perfect risk? I don't know how to quantify a measured risk. He is worth whatever United and Barcelona negotiate for him. It is up to ETH to explain to the board how badly the club needs this player in particular, which he has (in all likelihood) done already.

 

[Okey]

That simply doesn’t matter in the context of this deal. His club want him gone.

They wanted Dembele gone too. At the end of the day, he has a contract. If we're actually negotiating, then it's because a deal is possible from the player's end.

 

[ChaddyP]

This is on like the kong

 

[pocco]

It's funny reading here that €80mill is insane and paying over the odds, then you check /r/barca and they are saying "we absolutely shouldn't sell for less than €100mill, he is a top 3 player in the team".

Very odd given that there seems to be an agreement from everyone that he never quite hit the heights he hit at Ajax since leaving.

He's basically their Pogba. Like with us and Pogba, half thought he was useless, half thought he was the most talented midfielder in the world.

 

[Red the Bear]

It's funny reading here that €80mill is insane and paying over the odds, then you check /r/barca and they are saying "we absolutely shouldn't sell for less than €100mill, he is a top 3 player in the team".

Very odd given that there seems to be an agreement from everyone that he never quite hit the heights he hit at Ajax since leaving.

Barca and Madrid fans are the most obnoxious in the world ( and fair enough they dominated the world football for over a decade).
Also they see how we paid 80 mill for someone like Maguire and so they want to fleece us even more.

 

[pocco]

Initially, I said when you feel there is major alarm bells ringing, just keep reminding yourself that this guy used to work under ten Hag and was successful as part of the key player.

So I'm trying to understand why do you think De Jong works under ten Hag is a major alarm bells ringing? Why do you see it as a problem that we have a coach who is proven to know how to use De Jong at best before? Unless your problem is ten Hag himself not De Jong?

Because Ten Hag has no experience in the PL and therefore can't be completely confident that FDJ would be a success here. He has to consider that he did well in a weak league, but not every other manager is an idiot and if FDJ hasn't worked out in La Liga, then perhaps there are reasons that should be considered. I just hope he has looked at all that and it's not just a case of "he was amazing for me in Netherlands, let's bring him in". If he was a sensation in Spain then I'd be less worried, but when you read that article it sounds pretty much identical to the Pogba situation.

The questions are a) why hasn't he set the world alight in La Liga? He's 25 now, not a kid, so should be near his prime. And b) can ETH be confident that he can bring him back to the player he was in Eredivisie and will that translate well to the PL?

I know he is supposed to be a meticulous planner, but I don't think even he can be sure about this one. I'm not saying Ruben Neves is a better player, but at least he's a known quantity and it's reasonable to make assumptions on what we will get.

 

[phelans shorts]

Barca and Madrid fans are the most obnoxious in the world ( and fair enough they dominated the world football for over a decade).
Also they see how we paid 80 mill for someone like Maguire and so they want to fleece us even more.

Is this your first time reading this site?

 

[Unam333]

It's funny reading here that €80mill is insane and paying over the odds, then you check /r/barca and they are saying "we absolutely shouldn't sell for less than €100mill, he is a top 3 player in the team".

Very odd given that there seems to be an agreement from everyone that he never quite hit the heights he hit at Ajax since leaving.

40-50m? Yes.
He definitely isn't a 80m player.

 

[L1nk]

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[Woodzy]

This is on like the kong

Like De Jong?

 

[Conor]

Some people on this forum seem to have an incredibly hard time understanding that not everything in the media is true.

 

[RuudTom83]

United need to start playing the skint card.

Liverpool use it all the time. You would think Barca are a charity these days.

If Barca won’t their summer transfer budget topping up! they need to get one of the oil clubs involved.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Because Ten Hag has no experience in the PL and therefore can't be completely confident that FDJ would be a success here. He has to consider that he did well in a weak league, but not every other manager is an idiot and if FDJ hasn't worked out in La Liga, then perhaps there are reasons that should be considered. I just hope he has looked at all that and it's not just a case of "he was amazing for me in Netherlands, let's bring him in". If he was a sensation in Spain then I'd be less worried, but when you read that article it sounds pretty much identical to the Pogba situation.

The questions are a) why hasn't he set the world alight in La Liga? He's 25 now, not a kid, so should be near his prime. And b) can ETH be confident that he can bring him back to the player he was in Eredivisie and will that translate well to the PL?

I know he is supposed to be a meticulous planner, but I don't think even he can be sure about this one. I'm not saying Ruben Neves is a better player, but at least he's a known quantity and it's reasonable to make assumptions on what we will get.

It seems your issue is ten Hag not De Jong. The Pogba situation is that no managers in here know how to use him and coach him, so it's different.

Signing De Jong should be the least of alarm bells ringing because the player has been proven to be able to work under ETH system. I would say him signing player that he has never work with and no evidence that the player could fit to his system should be the major alarm bells ringing and obviously that is not De Jong. So for example, signing Tchouaméni or Declane Rice even with the same fees as De Jong is more alarm bells ringing as we never seen ETH works with the player and knows how to use player. Mourinho is PL proven signed Pogba was more alarm bells ringing than ETH signs De Jong as we never seen Mourinho works with Pogba and knows how to use Pogba. Therefore, that's the big different situation of Pogba and De Jong which lies on the who the managers are.

The only alarm bells ringing of signing De Jong is if we sack ETH means we won't have proven manager that knows how to use De Jong, which what happened between De Jong and Xavi right now since Xavi wants him to be more box to box. However, I don't think at this point we should be thinking of what happens if we sack our manager. We should be thinking which players that can work in our current manager (ten Hag)'s system, and De Jong is one of the player.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

40-50m? Yes.
He definitely isn't a 80m player.

Tchouameni is apparently going to Madrid for 100m. He may go on to be a great player but at the moment that's all just theory. The market looked like it might get a bit more sensible when Covid hit but that no longer seems to be the case.

 

[Reapersoul20]

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Yeah when you cant agree a fee and the player doesn't want to go there are some pretty facking big obstacles right there

 

[Fooza]

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so much pretty much everything regarding a transfer

 

[Berbaclass]

Some people on this forum seem to have an incredibly hard time understanding that not everything in the media is true.

Yes

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

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Sky at the cutting edge as per.

 

[matsdf]

Wouldn't a loan deal make sense? Barcelona gets his wages of their books and a decent fee for the loan, while De Jong doesn't have to commit his future to a club that is a bit shaky at the moment. Could include an option to buy as well.

 

[Strats]

Don’t think this will happen

 

[JJ12]

Wouldn't a loan deal make sense? Barcelona gets his wages of their books and a decent fee for the loan, while De Jong doesn't have to commit his future to a club that is a bit shaky at the moment. Could include an option to buy as well.

Why would we do that

 

[Red the Bear]

Is this your first time reading this site?

I actually really like our resident barca and Madrid fans they're pretty nice, with good footballing knowledge.

But self depreciation aside I genuinely don't think there is single more picky and fussy fan base in the world than these two.

Look how toxic they can be even when they're winning, some imbeciles on Twitter were calling for Ancelotti's head till the final.

I can't imagine us being so collectively toxic if we're in any hood form and winning accolades.

 

[Hoof the ball]

It's funny reading here that €80mill is insane and paying over the odds, then you check /r/barca and they are saying "we absolutely shouldn't sell for less than €100mill, he is a top 3 player in the team".

Very odd given that there seems to be an agreement from everyone that he never quite hit the heights he hit at Ajax since leaving.

Short memories on here. Season before last he was the 2nd best player behind Messi all season, but, can't expect people to remember back further than 5 games ago.

 

[2 man midfield]

Wouldn't a loan deal make sense? Barcelona gets his wages of their books and a decent fee for the loan, while De Jong doesn't have to commit his future to a club that is a bit shaky at the moment. Could include an option to buy as well.

If his main obstacle is the fact that he wants CL football, joining us for just the one season where we play Europa before hopefully getting back into the CL wouldn’t make sense for him either really. I think he’d rather just stay put, and I think we should let him. Get a number 6 first, that should be priority. Can’t help but feel De Jong is a bit of a luxury signing, which is fine if you have a working team already but we don’t.