Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

[RedRonaldo]

This will always be our problem:

1. We have no plan B, player X is the player we want to get, and everyone knows it

2 Seller club will take full advantage of that, especially when we have history of overpaying for players we really want (ie Maguire

3. Or else we could play the waiting game, until last day of transfer window, or wait for another summer to lower the price

IMO, the only way we could solve this, is to always have plan B (buy another similar player for cheap price) and willing to execute, and let the seller club know we will execute it if we feel we are being taken advantage of.

 

[Dr Foo]

Any idea why we can't focus on multiple transfer targets at once, instead of always 'waiting for the key target to be secured first'?

 

[sglowrider]

This will always be our problem:

1. We have no plan B, player X is the player we want to get, and everyone knows it

2 Seller club will take full advantage of that, especially when we have history of overpaying for players we really want (ie Maguire

3. Or else we could play the waiting game, until last day of transfer window, or wait for another summer to lower the price

IMO, the only way we could solve this, is to always have plan B (buy another similar player for cheap price) and willing to execute, and let the seller club know we will execute it if we feel we are being taken advantage of.

Wow!! You must work for some management consulting firm. McK?

I bet all the scouting, transfer negotiation and the coaches and even ETH themselves have not thought of a Plan B. You need to apply to United and come-up with this unique concept called Plan B.

I bet they have never heard of it like many of us.

What more nuggets of wisdom will you drop on us next? United just need to outscore the opponents to win games?

 

[sglowrider]

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With PSG about to sign 2 Portuguese midfielders and Bayern likely adsing Laimer, they're just about out of potential suitors...

Basically, there are no clubs that can afford Frenkie and those who can already have players that play that same role. This is why the United is confident of the deal and can afford to be patient.

 

[Chicharo]

The problem is that in our case patience often equals incapability...
I'll be furious if we don't land this guy after all the fuss.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Wow!! You must work for some management consulting firm. McK?

I bet all the scouting, transfer negotiation and the coaches and even ETH themselves have not thought of a Plan B. You need to apply to United and come-up with this unique concept called Plan B.

I bet they have never heard of it like many of us.

What more nuggets of wisdom will you drop on us next? United just need to outscore the opponents to win games?

This is your first year supporting Man Utd? I thought everyone know this, it’s plain obvious.

 

[sglowrider]

This is your first year supporting Man Utd? I thought everyone know this, it’s plain obvious.

Then you better alert the management of United. Or even better, apply for a C-suite role at United and teach them since they aren't aware of this brilliant approach.

 

[JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo]

Remember when we would hear about who we signed when they were standing with the scarf. Now we live and die with every tweet someone writes. I need to give my own head a wobble

 

[mazhar13]

Any idea why we can't focus on multiple transfer targets at once, instead of always 'waiting for the key target to be secured first'?

We are. None of them are as advanced as De Jong, though, and for good reason; De Jong will play a huge part in our summer transfer window activities.

• In the same month as the initial De Jong news broke, United met up with Timber's camp in London.
• United also got in touch with Ajax regarding Antony.
• United were in touch with Núñez's camp and backed off when Liverpool submitted a very high first offer.
• United are working to bring in Malcolm Ebiowei from Derby County.
• United submitted a formal offer to Christian Eriksen.
• United were in touch with Vitinha's camp before backing off when PSG paid the release clause amount.
• Recently, United have started talks for David Raum.

 

[GreatDane]

This will always be our problem:

1. We have no plan B, player X is the player we want to get, and everyone knows it

2 Seller club will take full advantage of that, especially when we have history of overpaying for players we really want (ie Maguire

3. Or else we could play the waiting game, until last day of transfer window, or wait for another summer to lower the price

IMO, the only way we could solve this, is to always have plan B (buy another similar player for cheap price) and willing to execute, and let the seller club know we will execute it if we feel we are being taken advantage of.

You forgot:

4. Moaning all-knowing fans.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Then you better alert the management of United. Or even better, apply for a C-suite role at United and teach them since they aren't aware of this brilliant approach.

We all know how poor our management was. Everyone knows that. Are you going to defend them?

 

[Real Name]

We are. None of them are as advanced as De Jong, though, and for good reason; De Jong will play a huge part in our summer transfer window activities.

• In the same month as the initial De Jong news broke, United met up with Timber's camp in London.
• United also got in touch with Ajax regarding Antony.
• United were in touch with Núñez's camp and backed off when Liverpool submitted a very high first offer.
• United are working to bring in Malcolm Ebiowei from Derby County.
• United submitted a formal offer to Christian Eriksen.
• United were in touch with Vitinha's camp before backing off when PSG paid the release clause amount.
• Recently, United have started talks for David Raum.

Thank you for this, although it wont stop the posts like the one you quoted. It never stops.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I think deals like this and the Sancho one where we drag it out and end up getting it for a lower price than demanded will at least help us change our reputation of being pushovers

 

[Escobar]

Any idea why we can't focus on multiple transfer targets at once, instead of always 'waiting for the key target to be secured first'?

When you are really shit at something, it requires all your attention. No distractions. And thats United doing transfers

 

[Judas]

Remember when we would hear about who we signed when they were standing with the scarf. Now we live and die with every tweet someone writes. I need to give my own head a wobble

It really was a simpler time. But I do enjoy the madness of silly season. It's just entertaining for the most part, a good life distraction. It's the people who take it too seriously and start fuming in June I feel a bit sorry for.

 

[kirk buttercup]

Remember when we would hear about who we signed when they were standing with the scarf. Now we live and die with every tweet someone writes. I need to give my own head a wobble

enjoy this for what It is. 99% BS. But enough to give a little but of hope and dream if a brighter future.

 

[Highfather_24]

We are. None of them are as advanced as De Jong, though, and for good reason; De Jong will play a huge part in our summer transfer window activities.

• In the same month as the initial De Jong news broke, United met up with Timber's camp in London.
• United also got in touch with Ajax regarding Antony.
• United were in touch with Núñez's camp and backed off when Liverpool submitted a very high first offer.
• United are working to bring in Malcolm Ebiowei from Derby County.
• United submitted a formal offer to Christian Eriksen.
• United were in touch with Vitinha's camp before backing off when PSG paid the release clause amount.
• Recently, United have started talks for David Raum.

Yes we are always "talking" and "monitoring" and "preparing a bid" and "starting talks with". While most our competitions who are ahead of us btw, already have 2-3 top signings in the bag.

Still we defend this incompetence in a weird stockholm syndrome-y way.

 

[GreatDane]

Yes we are always "talking" and "monitoring" and "preparing a bid" and "starting talks with". While most our competitions who are ahead of us btw, already have 2-3 top signings in the bag.

Still we defend this incompetence in a weird stockholm syndrome-y way.

We had to wait with targets until Ten Hag was signed so of course others have had more time plus we are not in the CL so our budget and appeal got affected - people need to calm down, its early in the window and players are on holiday anyway.

 

[Redcy]

This will always be our problem:

1. We have no plan B, player X is the player we want to get, and everyone knows it

2 Seller club will take full advantage of that, especially when we have history of overpaying for players we really want (ie Maguire

3. Or else we could play the waiting game, until last day of transfer window, or wait for another summer to lower the price

IMO, the only way we could solve this, is to always have plan B (buy another similar player for cheap price) and willing to execute, and let the seller club know we will execute it if we feel we are being taken advantage of.

the problem with this narrative is that it seems clear we do have plan b’s. However it’s clear ETH feels that a player who is top quality, he knows, and knows his system is high priority. If the board turn around and tell him sorry you’ll have to have Neves for £50m instead of your key player for £65m because we need to teach Barca a lesson it’s not a great way to back the new manager is it.

 

[Cassidy]

the problem with this narrative is that it seems clear we do have plan b’s. However it’s clear ETH feels that a player who is top quality, he knows, and knows his system is high priority. If the board turn around and tell him sorry you’ll have to have Neves for £50m instead of your key player for £65m because we need to teach Barca a lesson it’s not a great way to back the new manager is it.

So there is no real plan b then, and Barca knows it

 

[pratyush_utd]

Yes we are always "talking" and "monitoring" and "preparing a bid" and "starting talks with". While most our competitions who are ahead of us btw, already have 2-3 top signings in the bag.

Still we defend this incompetence in a weird stockholm syndrome-y way.

You do realise window is open for 2 weeks and we operate on fixed budget. Liverpool is far more stable and needed only striker. City wrapped up a player who we were in for but the player choose City.

I get the criticism of wasting money but moaning about lack of transfer at this moment is not justified

 

[UnitedSofa]

So there is no real plan b then, and Barca knows it

There’s a plan b.

 

[Redcy]

So there is no real plan b then, and Barca knows it

well there probably is, but do you want to trigger it two weeks into the transfer season just to make a stance. Let’s say for example It’s neves, 15m less and completely different to de jong. Eth now has to change his whole team plan to incorporate a different style of player. Eriksen is no longer suitable, so you have to find his replacement too. With a less mobile player in there you definitely have to get new cbs or rb this year as no way can neves cover the ground. You assume plan b just means you swap one playerfor another on a list. Plan b is likely a different team and playing style.

 

[Highfather_24]

You do realise window is open for 2 weeks and we operate on fixed budget. Liverpool is far more stable and needed only striker. City wrapped up a player who we were in for but the player choose City.

I get the criticism of wasting money but moaning about lack of transfer at this moment is not justified

The window is open for two weeks, but the excuses only come up for us. Like I said, its not stopping other clubs. And we are the ones that have lost so many players, and need a major rebuild.

Yet every summer when the window opens, its like our board goes "what now?". Lets not pretend this is happening for the first time. We've been among the worst recruiters for a while now, its public knowledge. We suck at both buying a selling players, and everybody from players to agents, know it.

 

[Jaae]

BIG day this

 

[Highfather_24]

One one hand the club briefs that "money is not a factor, we are loaded af", yet they also say "Cant even think of other transfers before De Jong, because what if the 5M we save helps us buy another player?!?!"

I mean which one is it?

 

[Cassidy]

well there probably is, but do you want to trigger it two weeks into the transfer season just to make a stance. Let’s say for example It’s neves, 15m less and completely different to de jong. Eth now has to change his whole team plan to incorporate a different style of player. Eriksen is no longer suitable, so you have to find his replacement too. With a less mobile player in there you definitely have to get new cbs or rb this year as no way can neves cover the ground. You assume plan b just means you swap one playerfor another on a list. Plan b is likely a different team and playing style.

Its been made clear that ETH wants De Jong and there is no plan B for him.

Let's say Neves is plan b though, you do realise Neves can also join another club right? Let's say our plan B was Vintiha....
Ten Hag won't play an entirely different style because we can't sign one player, just like he didn't play an entirely different style when De Jong left Ajax

 

[sglowrider]

We all know how poor our management was. Everyone knows that. Are you going to defend them?

Its a new team and a new manager if you have not noticed. But I will defend them on your argument that they have no Plan B. Manchester United is a £600million organisation.
You don't run an organisation that big if there wasn't any forward planning, budgeting and even any basic operational analysis -- benchmarking to employee assessments etc involved.
All those, at every function within the org chart will have planning, and evaluation of their goals/targets and output -- something quarterly or at worst, annually. All that will require scenario planning including Plans A, B C or D to be presented to their higher-ups.

The simple fact that you think they don't do any planning would imply that you know something they don't?

Plans and more plans -- its the choices/decisions that the executives above make that is usually what is reflected. It doesn't mean that they arent and Plan B,C or Ds.

The fact that the on-field results have been poor despite the investment of over £1.2billion over the past 9 years rests solely on the previous CEO. And based on joining the dots and seeing things from the outside, it appears to me that Woodward had consolidated most of the decision-making within his own hands, and had clearly not willing to delegate decision-making to the domain knowledge experts as seen in his gratuitous attempt at hiring a DOF for the past few years.

If CEO wants to control the decision-making process, then decisions are made very slowly -- and if you have a CEO who is a control freak and who lacks domain knowledge then time, money and opportunities are wasted.

That's what happened.

It's not the simplistic analysis as you had presented. Anyone who had had to undergo tertiary education like sports science or Business school would have to present scenario planning. And all of the C-suites within United appear to have had that level of education.

 

[Rozay]

Yes we are always "talking" and "monitoring" and "preparing a bid" and "starting talks with". While most our competitions who are ahead of us btw, already have 2-3 top signings in the bag.

Still we defend this incompetence in a weird stockholm syndrome-y way.

But you know, and I know, that we will also have 2-3 signings of our own during this window. So what is it that is really your problem? Who cares who made the first signing of the summer? Is that we have now started boasting and competing on? The dates these players were signed will be forgotten within an few months and be completely irrelevant.

 

[Godfather]

Big day today?

 

[tidraKS]

BIG day this

You're being sarcastic, or is there any news going on?

 

[sglowrider]

Thank you for this, although it wont stop the posts like the one you quoted. It never stops.

Its called the Dunning-Kruger effect.

 

[Highfather_24]

But you know, and I know, that we will also have 2-3 signings of our own during this window. So what is it that is really your problem? Who cares who made the first signing of the summer? Is that we have now started boasting and competing on? The dates these players were signed will be forgotten within an few months and be completely irrelevant.

That's a good point, but they only reason early signings help is because it will help ETH with his pre-season training.

 

[Bobade]

I don't know if we are incompetent or not, there will be loads that goes on behind closed doors so we never have the full picture. What I do know though is that there is no way on earth that a big, publicly traded company doesn't have a plan B in their strategy. It just wouldn't happen.

 

[Oranges038]

We are. None of them are as advanced as De Jong, though, and for good reason; De Jong will play a huge part in our summer transfer window activities.

• In the same month as the initial De Jong news broke, United met up with Timber's camp in London.
• United also got in touch with Ajax regarding Antony.
• United were in touch with Núñez's camp and backed off when Liverpool submitted a very high first offer.
• United are working to bring in Malcolm Ebiowei from Derby County.
• United submitted a formal offer to Christian Eriksen.
• United were in touch with Vitinha's camp before backing off when PSG paid the release clause amount.
• Recently, United have started talks for David Raum.

Could be a very good signing.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I don't know if we are incompetent or not, there will be loads that goes on behind closed doors so we never have the full picture. What I do know though is that there is no way on earth that a big, publicly traded company doesn't have a plan B in their strategy. It just wouldn't happen.

Except for the debacle that had Moyes succeed SAF.

But I agree with your point.

 

[kthanksbye]

The way we conduct our transfers will have to change, too often we're bullied by teams into paying more than what we should. We're going to have to make a few take it or leave it offers and just not go back, we will miss out on some of our targets but the fans should understand that this will be better in the long run.
For this to happen, we're going to need our scouting and coaching to improve immensely.
We're going to have to buy players like James and Amad and turn them into first team players, once we can do that with a few players, the selling clubs will get the memo and we'll start getting players at reasonable prices.

 

[OpenIntrovert]

One one hand the club briefs that "money is not a factor, we are loaded af", yet they also say "Cant even think of other transfers before De Jong, because what if the 5M we save helps us buy another player?!?!"

I mean which one is it?

The club will definitely say that they have a lot of money to allay public fear. However you can't just go in and throw money as much as you want, as you need to consider the funding for other aspects of the club (e.g. operations, commercial merchandise etc). Thus, there will certainly be a fixed budget for transfers.

Another important point to note is that transfer deals are business transactions, where the buyer (Manchester United) is always looking to get the best price instead of just blindly paying the amount. In De Jong's case, the price has potential to be cheaper as Barcelona needs to sell and Manchester United has other options besides De Jong, so they are playing a waiting game to see when Barcelona can crack. You never go into a deal and pay the highest value immediately unless the buyer is in a emergency state or there are no other options (e.g. ETH says that De Jong is the only one who can solve the midfield crisis).

As for other transfers, it is more of a cash flow issue where the best price for the other deals can only be determined if the De Jong deal goes through. Imagine if you have 120 million budget and you need to buy 3 players. Player B and Player C's value is 30 million each leaving 60 million for you to spend for De Jong. However Barcelona will only "crack" if the price is 80 million, which means both deals for player B and player C have to be renegotiated or one of them dropped. So they have to complete De Jong's deal at the best price before moving onto the other 2 deals.

 

[Bilbo]

Yes we are always "talking" and "monitoring" and "preparing a bid" and "starting talks with". While most our competitions who are ahead of us btw, already have 2-3 top signings in the bag.

Still we defend this incompetence in a weird stockholm syndrome-y way.

The thing that is genuinely weird about transfer windows is how supporters continually cling on to every rumour as though they actually present a full and accurate picture of what is happening.

 

[Highfather_24]

As for other transfers, it is more of a cash flow issue where the best price for the other deals can only be determined if the De Jong deal goes through. Imagine if you have 120 million budget and you need to buy 3 players. Player B and Player C's value is 30 million each leaving 60 million for you to spend for De Jong. However Barcelona will only "crack" if the price is 80 million, which means both deals for player B and player C have to be renegotiated or one of them dropped. So they have to complete De Jong's deal at the best price before moving onto the other 2 deals.

Why not set a max limit on how much we are willing to spend for De Jong(say 80M), and then go about with our transfer dealings from the rest of the budget? I'm sure we need to sell players as well, and we can raise money for transfers from that, why are we not doing that?

I really dont buy this "one transfer at a time" shenanigans. Add that to the other stuff we do like buy players and play them in unnatural positions, buy players that dont suit our system at all, struggle to sell players, have drawn on public transfer sagas that mostly fail, ignore main areas of need in favour of easier signings or going for blockbuster names etc...

I just dont have any sort of faith in our recruitment system. Its broken, everybody knows its broken, and I really hope Murtough and co can fix it. I'm doubtful though.