Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

[NLunited]

"We have really been looking to find ways to use [De Jong's] skills in the best manner," Ten Hag told Dutch Soccer Site in 2019. "Where can he play best, for the team and to showcase his talent. Everyone was screaming: Frenkie is the biggest talent, etc etc. Well yes. But, where? In midfield? Ok, but which role?

"His quality is that he makes the forwards perform better. He is a wanderer, an adventurer, he’s always on the move, like a shark. With the ball, often, but also without the ball. So if you put him on 6 [defensive midfield], he’s away too often. But you need to give him freedom, otherwise you can’t the best out of him.

"It wasn’t an easy puzzle, so I decided to play with two number 6s and only one attacking mid. And in this way, we can also dominate the half space, and force opponents to choose."

On whether he initially wanted Van de Beek as a permanent defensive midfielder, Ten Hag said: "This goes to show that plans are just plans, the reality needs to want it as well. And in reality, Donny is also a player who likes to be on the move.

"For both Donny and Frenkie it is a strength. So Lasse [Schone] fulfilled the role perfectly!"

Who is going to be our Lasse? How do you fit Fernandes, De Jong and Eriksen into the same team?

Um, you don‘t unless you play with three centerbacks.

McT OR Fred will play next to Frenkie, and cover when he roams forward.

BTW Eriksen or Bruno could play from the wing alla Mata. Who knows.

 

[RedDevilUnited369]

It’s not just FDJ they owe wages to.

True. They owe Pique €50m.

https://barcauniversal.com/barcelona-owe-e50-million-to-defender-in-deferred-salary/amp/

 

[sglowrider]

If we're running with the narrative of United are chasing a player that doesn't want to come here, then I'm pretty pi**ed off we never went after Håland.

Ronaldo? Haaland won't come t United to play as Ronnie's backup right? The die was set the moment the Glazers and their bright spark, Woodward wanted to sign the commercial juggernaut that is Ronaldo.

 

[Red Company]

Looks good

I doubt Martial will start as LW much.. he’ll probably be a backup striker to Ronaldo and since there’s 5 subs this season he may come on as a sub for the wing or replace Ronaldo but probably not start on the wing much.. I don’t think he has the discipline to track back while defending or even pressing nonstop throughout the game

I also don’t think Martinez will be able to bench Maguire.. at least not until Maguire royally fecks up.. he’s still the captain and I don’t see him starting on the bench when the season begins..

Eriksen will probably not bench Fred either.. I don’t think he has it in him to play a full 90 and run around in a high pressing environment.. probably come on as a substitute or play in place of Bruno mostly.. if we’re down a goal in the match then sure ETH might risk playing him along with Bruno and Frenkie but that’s about it..

 

[sglowrider]

"We have really been looking to find ways to use [De Jong's] skills in the best manner," Ten Hag told Dutch Soccer Site in 2019. "Where can he play best, for the team and to showcase his talent. Everyone was screaming: Frenkie is the biggest talent, etc etc. Well yes. But, where? In midfield? Ok, but which role?

"His quality is that he makes the forwards perform better. He is a wanderer, an adventurer, he’s always on the move, like a shark. With the ball, often, but also without the ball. So if you put him on 6 [defensive midfield], he’s away too often. But you need to give him freedom, otherwise you can’t the best out of him.

"It wasn’t an easy puzzle, so I decided to play with two number 6s and only one attacking mid. And in this way, we can also dominate the half space, and force opponents to choose."

On whether he initially wanted Van de Beek as a permanent defensive midfielder, Ten Hag said: "This goes to show that plans are just plans, the reality needs to want it as well. And in reality, Donny is also a player who likes to be on the move.

"For both Donny and Frenkie it is a strength. So Lasse [Schone] fulfilled the role perfectly!"

Who is going to be our Lasse? How do you fit Fernandes, De Jong and Eriksen into the same team?

Sounds like ETH just described Pogba.

 

[sglowrider]

At least playing with McTom he knows the check will clear.

 

[Reapersoul20]

[Fabrizio Romano on YouTube video]: Frenkie de Jong and his agent have informed #mufc and Barcelona that, at this moment, he doesn't intend on leaving the club and will not accept the salary reduction offered by Barcelona.

 

[sglowrider]

I doubt Martial will start as LW much.. he’ll probably be a backup striker to Ronaldo and since there’s 5 subs this season he may come on as a sub for the wing or replace Ronaldo but probably not start on the wing much.. I don’t think he has the discipline to track back while defending or even pressing nonstop throughout the game

I also don’t think Martinez will be able to bench Maguire.. at least not until Maguire royally fecks up.. he’s still the captain and I don’t see him starting on the bench when the season begins..

Eriksen will probably not bench Fred either.. I don’t think he has it in him to play a full 90 and run around in a high pressing environment.. probably come on as a substitute or play in place of Bruno mostly.. if we’re down a goal in the match then sure ETH might risk playing him along with Bruno and Frenkie but that’s about it..

Wait... are we assuming that Ronaldo is back? Solved his ''family issues'' and raring to go?

 

[Red Company]

Wait... are we assuming that Ronaldo is back? Solved his family issues and raring to go?

Assuming.. yes.. atleast until further notice

 

[sglowrider]

Assuming.. yes.. atleast until further notice

Noooooooooooooooooooo.... Come on Boehly.... pull that trigger!

 

[Attila]

I doubt Martial will start as LW much.. he’ll probably be a backup striker to Ronaldo and since there’s 5 subs this season he may come on as a sub for the wing or replace Ronaldo but probably not start on the wing much.. I don’t think he has the discipline to track back while defending or even pressing nonstop throughout the game

I also don’t think Martinez will be able to bench Maguire.. at least not until Maguire royally fecks up.. he’s still the captain and I don’t see him starting on the bench when the season begins..

Eriksen will probably not bench Fred either.. I don’t think he has it in him to play a full 90 and run around in a high pressing environment.. probably come on as a substitute or play in place of Bruno mostly.. if we’re down a goal in the match then sure ETH might risk playing him along with Bruno and Frenkie but that’s about it..

So probably after the first match

 

[Red Company]

Noooooooooooooooooooo.... Come on Boehly.... pull that trigger!

To be brutally honest.. I wouldn’t mind keeping Ronaldo for another season.. gives us time to find a good striker as there’s definitely a shortage at the moment.. someone new might pop up by next summer or Kane/Martinez might become available at a good price for instance and maybe even be open to joining us if we’re on a upward trend under ETH..
Let’s also not forget that he’s still a lethal finisher and have a better system to work under this season rather than the haphazard football we were playing last season..

 

[Tyrion]

Why, because I don't believe we'd waste our time chasing an unobtainable player? Because I don't believe random journos spouting the same shit over and over pretending to know what's going on behind the scenes?

Because we all know that these twitter guys have a hard wire tapped into de Jong's brain reading his every thought

The overreaction to every piece of random speculation by some journos is silly and it's why I avoid transfer speculation until the player shows up.

However, there's so much noise around FDJ that I definitely think we could get him.

 

[Tyrion]

To be brutally honest.. I wouldn’t mind keeping Ronaldo for another season.. gives us time to find a good striker as there’s definitely a shortage at the moment.. someone new might pop up by next summer or Kane/Martinez might become available at a good price for instance and maybe even be open to joining us if we’re on a upward trend under ETH..
Let’s also not forget that he’s still a lethal finisher and have a better system to work under this season rather than the haphazard football we were playing last season..

Part of me would love to see that work just to shut up the journalists who are wannabe tacticians (e.g. Wilson, Delaney, Early) who tend to view their own opinions as fact despite having no qualification or experience in what they're talking about.

 

[Red Company]

So probably after the first match

I mean we really have to see how he performs under ETH’s system and after having completed our signings, is he better protected on the pitch or not..

There was a time I used to get amazed how Matip is performing so well in this liverpool team but he’s survived so far and even held his position in the starting 11 and Maguire also had a semi-decent season the one before last..

And whose to say Martinez won’t get found out or royally feck up either.. defending Haaland Nunez Kane Jimenez is definitely no joke for a short player

I think Martinez will be seen playing LB, CB in a 3 and maybe even CDM sometimes rather than only CB in a 2.. where he has someone to cover him in situations

 

[sglowrider]

To be brutally honest.. I wouldn’t mind keeping Ronaldo for another season.. gives us time to find a good striker as there’s definitely a shortage at the moment.. someone new might pop up by next summer or Kane/Martinez might become available at a good price for instance and maybe even be open to joining us if we’re on a upward trend under ETH..
Let’s also not forget that he’s still a lethal finisher and have a better system to work under this season rather than the haphazard football we were playing last season..

The ETH system will require the front 3 to press. Ronnie won't do that since he is 38 and needs to save his energy.
We will be back to the nonsense football we played last season. Directionless and unmotivated players because the outfield players have to compensate for Ronaldo's deficiencies and lack of work rate. He is the solution to the problems that he himself creates.

 

[sglowrider]

Part of me would love to see that work just to shut up the journalists who are wannabe tacticians (e.g. Wilson, Delaney, Early) who tend to view their own opinions as fact despite having no qualification or experience in what they're talking about.

And if they are right and the Ronaldo experiment fails again even under ETH? Then what?

Wait another year for ETH to re-build? Wasnt last year's performance as a team shown you enough?

 

[Red Company]

Part of me would love to see that work just to shut up the journalists who are wannabe tacticians (e.g. Wilson, Delaney, Early) who tend to view their own opinions as fact despite having no qualification or experience in what they're talking about.

I genuinely thought I’d read ‘half the caf’ included in that list as well

But yes definitely would love to see Ronaldo in the new setup.. I don’t see us playing the counter attacking football that was evident under Ole and rather control games so technically Ronaldo won’t even have to track back or defend as much as he probably did last season so it should be easier for him to survive and even score more consistently rather than just score random hat tricks and then go mia for some games.. he should be getting more steady service in the new system (hopefully)

 

[Reapersoul20]

And if they are right and the Ronaldo experiment fails again even under ETH? Then what?

Wait another year for ETH to re-build? Wasnt last year's performance as a team shown you enough?

I hate to be a backseat mod but can you please at least take the ronaldo agenda posting into the ronaldo thread, where you already have 110 posts? T'is sickening enough there so let's leave it penned into just that thread at least. Cheers.

 

[Red Company]

The ETH system will require the front 3 to press. Ronnie won't do that since he is 38 and needs to save his energy.
We will be back to the nonsense football we played last season. Directionless and unmotivated players because the outfield players have to compensate for Ronaldo's deficiencies and lack of work rate. He is the solution to the problems that he himself creates.

I genuinely thought I’d read ‘half the caf’ included in that list as well

But yes definitely would love to see Ronaldo in the new setup.. I don’t see us playing the counter attacking football that was evident under Ole and rather control games so technically Ronaldo won’t even have to track back or defend as much as he probably did last season so it should be easier for him to survive and even score more consistently rather than just score random hat tricks and then go mia for some games.. he should be getting more steady service in the new system (hopefully)

I actually just replied to someone about Ronaldo’s defensive responsibilities as well as pressing needs projection in the upcoming season

 

[sglowrider]

I actually just replied to someone about Ronaldo’s defensive responsibilities as well as pressing needs projection in the upcoming season

The problem is that Ronaldo will insist that all scoring opportunities come through him which is what happened last season -- both for him physically but also for his own personal fame. This will kill any creativity within the team or the system that ETH will want to employ.
It will be a battle of wills -- ETH, a team-orientated coach versus Ronaldo.

 

[sglowrider]

I hate to be a backseat mod but can you please at least take the ronaldo agenda posting into the ronaldo thread, where you already have 110 posts? T'is sickening enough there so let's leave it penned into just that thread at least. Cheers.

Quit your moaning and virtue signalling!!!

Just put me on ignore.

 

[Waynne]

True. They owe Pique €50m.

https://barcauniversal.com/barcelona-owe-e50-million-to-defender-in-deferred-salary/amp/

Shakira's baby daddy ?! Not sure they'll have enough levers to get them out of that one.

 

[McTerminator]

Quit your moaning and virtue signalling!!!

Just put me on ignore.

Or stop derailing the thread.

Pretty important update allegedly from a reliable journalist above your Ronaldo ramblings and nobody is talking about it.

Do we really believe that FDJ has just said he isn’t leaving? He’s in his right to stay and demand his contract be honoured so it’s possible.

 

[RedRonaldo]

The ETH system will require the front 3 to press. Ronnie won't do that since he is 38 and needs to save his energy.
We will be back to the nonsense football we played last season. Directionless and unmotivated players because the outfield players have to compensate for Ronaldo's deficiencies and lack of work rate. He is the solution to the problems that he himself creates.

We just have to see ain’t we. ETH has just recently said Ronaldo is key part of his plan, whether you believe him or not is up to your own interpretation. But you may have to accept the manager might have different ideas on his own tactics rather than your interpretation of his tactics. There surely many other successful system who doesn’t relies it’s CF to press, current CL champions Real proves that with Benzema, another CL champions Bayern proves that few years back with Lewandoski.

 

[sglowrider]

Do we really believe that FDJ has just said he isn’t leaving? He’s in his right to stay and demand his contract be honoured so it’s possible.

Why are we going after a player who said he loves it at Barca and doesn't want to leave?

You would have thought Armold and Murtough would have checked to see if Frenkie is open to the idea of moving? Same old United. Di Marie vibes here.

 

[Reapersoul20]

Or stop derailing the thread.

Pretty important update allegedly from a reliable journalist above your Ronaldo ramblings and nobody is talking about it.

Do we really believe that FDJ has just said he isn’t leaving? He’s in his right to stay and demand his contract be honoured so it’s possible.

Cheers .

Most on the reddit thread seem to think it is just posturing from the FdJ side and that things wouldn't progress to this point unless he had given the go-ahead that he's open to it! Tough to know with Romano reporting it though - he's been hit and miss these past few weeks.

I hope the 4-0 doesn't convince anyone we don't need to pursue him anymore anyway

 

[gza the genius]

Do we really believe that FDJ has just said he isn’t leaving? He’s in his right to stay and demand his contract be honoured so it’s possible.

I think all things considered he'd rather stay but I find it hard to believe he isn't incredibly pissed at Barca right now. I know it's slightly different but if my current employer deffered my wages and then refused to pay them back, asked me to take a salary reduction and also tried to force me out the door I can't imagine I'd be too happy with them.

Plus, the statement supposedly coming from FDJ doesn't really make sense. We already know Barca can't/won't pay his current wages and they owe him a vast sum of money. Staying at Barca on his current terms is just not an option plus getting the money they owe him is not an option.

I'm not saying it's definitely lining up for him to come to us but his current stance is going to have to bend one way or another.

 

[Dempsey19]

If FDJ tells Barca he wants to leave, wouldnt that mean he forfeits his loyalty bonus?

Maybe that's why he can't say it. He wants his loyalty bonus and all his deferred wages.

 

[sglowrider]

If FDJ tells Barca he wants to leave, wouldnt that mean he forfeits his loyalty bonus?

Maybe that's why he can't say it. He wants his loyalty bonus and all his deferred wages.

Precisely. What is said for public consumption and when is done behind closed doors can be different. Fergie was the king of this.

 

[Esquire]

To be brutally honest.. I wouldn’t mind keeping Ronaldo for another season.. gives us time to find a good striker as there’s definitely a shortage at the moment.. someone new might pop up by next summer or Kane/Martinez might become available at a good price for instance and maybe even be open to joining us if we’re on a upward trend under ETH..
Let’s also not forget that he’s still a lethal finisher and have a better system to work under this season rather than the haphazard football we were playing last season..

You are making a huge assumption that Ronaldo will not cause waves after he’s been so public in wanting to leave.

 

[Red Company]

You are making a huge assumption that Ronaldo will not cause waves after he’s been so public in wanting to leave.

If no one ends up wanting him he can’t really do much

 

[prateik]

Wait.. Barca still havent agreed to pay FDJ what he is due? there is no way he is leaving without it.. and I hope he doesnt.

 

[Ted Lasso]

If FDJ tells Barca he wants to leave, wouldnt that mean he forfeits his loyalty bonus?

Maybe that's why he can't say it. He wants his loyalty bonus and all his deferred wages.

Ding ding ding we have a winner.

 

[RkkMan]

There's no way the window ends with this situation staying in a deadlock. De Jong won't stay at Barca on the same wages without some sort of consequence no matter how people spin it on here and his so called "Desire to stay" his wages and presence will prevent Barcelona from registering new players without some sort of solution so one of these situations will happen
1. He caves into the pressure and accepts a pay cut and waiver on money owed to stay at Barcelona(an option deemed very unlikely if not impossible in Spain)
2. He refuses to take a pay cut, refuses to waiver the money owed, refuses to leave and insists on staying regardless of if he gets paid what he's owed or not but Barcelona forces him out like Arthur/Suarez
3. Once he gets paid what he's owed and made clear to him he can't stay without a pay cut which he insists he doesn't want he reluctantly but amicably accepts a departure
And it's worth noting that game time will be reduced if he stays. Spanish media has said Xavi will keep Nico Gonzalez as the understudy to Busquets so the 6 role is out of question and he's 1000000000% not starting ahead of Pedri. He'll also have a hard time starting ahead of Kessie and Gavi.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

I think De Jong & his agent want to force Barca to cough up the deferred wages (€17M) before he accepts a transfer to United.

So, once Barca accept that they'll have to pay him up, and eventually do so, then De Jong will accept and move on too.

 

[Suedesi]

A reasonable take off the Barca forum:

Frenkie may well have strong preferences over where he plays his football, but I guarantee that the biggest stumbling block in these negotiations is over his compensation.

Right now, Barca has an obligation to pay him €170m in gross income over the next four years. Frenkie wants (at least) the vast majority of that money.

Does anybody really believe that United are offering €80m to Barca and €170m to Frenkie, and so committing to pay €250m for him over the course of 4 years? I suspect the salary offer United is making is more like €15m/season after taxes, or €120m gross over four years. This means that Frenkie is being asked to give away €50m for the opportunity to trade Barcelona for United. Nobody would be that stupid.

The only way this deal gets done is if Barca and United collectively come up with another €50m. Maybe Barca makes a €30m payment to Frenkie (effectively lowering the proceeds of the sale from €80m to €50m), and United raises his gross wage by €5m/year. Maybe United increases the transfer fee to €100m and Barca pays Frenkie a going-away present of €50m. But nobody can expect Frenkie to give away many millions of euros to make this move.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

True. They owe Pique €50m.

https://barcauniversal.com/barcelona-owe-e50-million-to-defender-in-deferred-salary/amp/

Bloody hell

 

[FatTails]

Which will happen first, us running out of patience or Barca running out of fecking levers?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

A reasonable take off the Barca forum:

Frenkie may well have strong preferences over where he plays his football, but I guarantee that the biggest stumbling block in these negotiations is over his compensation.

Right now, Barca has an obligation to pay him €170m in gross income over the next four years. Frenkie wants (at least) the vast majority of that money.

Does anybody really believe that United are offering €80m to Barca and €170m to Frenkie, and so committing to pay €250m for him over the course of 4 years? I suspect the salary offer United is making is more like €15m/season after taxes, or €120m gross over four years. This means that Frenkie is being asked to give away €50m for the opportunity to trade Barcelona for United. Nobody would be that stupid.

The only way this deal gets done is if Barca and United collectively come up with another €50m. Maybe Barca makes a €30m payment to Frenkie (effectively lowering the proceeds of the sale from €80m to €50m), and United raises his gross wage by €5m/year. Maybe United increases the transfer fee to €100m and Barca pays Frenkie a going-away present of €50m. But nobody can expect Frenkie to give away many millions of euros to make this move.

That is just insane. He's not even been there that long and the owe him such a staggering amount?!