Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

Frenkie to United?

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NZT-One

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Plant0x84 said:
You are literally the only poster who has a problem. Most can take posts in the spirit they are intended.
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Yeah pretty sure I am not the only one. Plus, and I want to make that clear, of course everybody is entitled to post in whatever way she/he feels suitable and as often as wanted.
hellhunter said:
I actually agree that a lot of us, me included, turned a bit of a blind eye to negative reports and we created a bit of an echo chamber. I have no issue with people being sceptic or negative with solid reason.

But after every Sport tweet, we have someone come in and declare it dead. And then again when the Mirror cites that very Sport tweet. And then a third time when Hildegard off Twitter posts the Sport tweet as fact.

What's the benefit of the army of "omg lel this is so ded how deluded can you be?" Even if they were right, would a bunch of weirdos on an internet forum being depressive somehow improve the situation?
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^^ thanks for acknowledging part of the issue. Me being so sensitive about it is probably because this is (according to my memories) how Ole wars have started back then... Trust the manager ,Trust the process, "they" wouldn't do xyz without knowing abc" against "I knew it a year ago". And then we kick on the next cycle of negatives against positives spouting the same arguements over an over.

I can answer your question for me personally: they wouldn't improve the situation obviously. But I always liked the idea that "the fanbase" could/would have somewhat of voice, a voice where the extreme positions are filtered out by a reasonable majority. And this entity could voice its discomfort with certain decisions, certain communication, risks whatsoever, getting rid of all that toxic extremist verbal attacks and all that. And right now, I get the feeling again, that the majority has made itself very comfortable "we just have to wait" with 10 plausible reasons to not do something that being passive. And I think, that mindset is destructive as the club certainly keeps an ear on the fanbase and the general level of comfort and I feel they get by too easily if the majority just agrees with the status quo. But the status quo isn't that we can't do anything. So much we can do.
 

pocco

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Plant0x84 said:
As per my previous answer-
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So other than not pushing to move, not having anything positive to say about us or our interest, calling Barca his dream club when asked about the prospect of leaving, apparently never agreeing any personal terms with us... What else do you believe he should do to put an end to it? I've seen many transfers not happen because players aren't interested and the player has given a lot less than that. Out if respect for ETH I imagine he won't go public anyway. And I would be shocked if we did either as we'll look like absolute buffoons. Best for us to let it just naturally draw to a close, unless we have an alternative. But ETH has already set the stage for this by saying "if the player becomes available they we will strike" implying that's not been the case so far, and also that we will just carry on with what we have if we don't get him.

You'll probably not get confirmation from anyone if this falls apart, so there's every chance it already has.
 

Plant0x84

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Shakesey said:
Very sensible. Now, as for your vote...

You and plant and berbaclass are trapped. There is no way you can change your stance on Frenkie. Trapped by your own reputation. That must be pretty crap, no? Look at the reaction Berba got when he said he was bored by this saga. He had no choice but to say he was kidding. He might have been.
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Of course we can, based on new information as it becomes available. I’m confident we’ll sign Frenkie, but if that changes I’ll have no problem admitting I got it wrong, then we move on and go again on the next muppet saga.
 

hellhunter

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NZT-One said:
Yeah pretty sure I am not the only one. Plus, and I want to make that clear, of course everybody is entitled to post in whatever way she/he feels suitable and as often as wanted.

^^ thanks for acknowledging part of the issue. Me being so sensitive about it is probably because this is (according to my memories) how Ole wars have started back then... Trust the manager ,Trust the process, "they" wouldn't do xyz without knowing abc" against "I knew it a year ago". And then we kick on the next cycle of negatives against positives spouting the same arguements over an over.

I can answer your question for me personally: they wouldn't improve the situation obviously. But I always liked the idea that "the fanbase" could/would have somewhat of voice, a voice where the extreme positions are filtered out by a reasonable majority. And this entity could voice its discomfort with certain decisions, certain communication, risks whatsoever, getting rid of all that toxic extremist verbal attacks and all that. And right now, I get the feeling again, that the majority has made itself very comfortable "we just have to wait" with 10 plausible reasons to not do something that being passive. And I think, that mindset is destructive as the club certainly keeps an ear on the fanbase and the general level of comfort and I feel they get by too easily if the majority just agrees with the status quo. But the status quo isn't that we can't do anything. So much we can do.
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If there was indeed something of a voice of the fans emanating from this forum, I could absolutely understand your stance. But I don't think anyone outside this board really cares what the De Jong muppets of Redcafe think about the management and transfer strategy of United
 

MIC_FIN

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Thread title change?

I've been busy all day feeding ducks down the local abattoir... What's the latest?

I'm anticipating opening a ginsters pasty while inhaling a bottle of single malt up my arse.
 

NZT-One

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Plant0x84 said:
Can’t really give that tagline to a guy from Berlin can we?! :nervous: :lol: :lol:
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Thats actually a good one :D But I agree, probably not really helpful in the future ^^

And for the record: the thing with the language barrier was irony as well, I always thought my English would be pretty solid ^^ But I get your point, written communication is lacking so much, easy to get irritated, probably best for everybody, not to assume the worst intentions on the other side.
 

Plant0x84

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pocco said:
So other than not pushing to move, not having anything positive to say about us or our interest, calling Barca his dream club when asked about the prospect of leaving, apparently never agreeing any personal terms with us... What else do you believe he should do to put an end to it? I've seen many transfers not happen because players aren't interested and the player has given a lot less than that. Out if respect for ETH I imagine he won't go public anyway. And I would be shocked if we did either as we'll look like absolute buffoons. Best for us to let it just naturally draw to a close, unless we have an alternative. But ETH has already set the stage for this by saying "if the player becomes available they we will strike" implying that's not been the case so far, and also that we will just carry on with what we have if we don't get him.

You'll probably not get confirmation from anyone if this falls apart, so there's every chance it already has.
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I still don’t believe the club or ETH would discuss with Barca if we had been told no by the player. All the noise in the media is exactly that, just noise. I judge based on how people are acting and both Barca and Utd are pushing for this transfer to happen still. I’m confident when fdj is satisfied with his remuneration package he’ll happily move.
 

hellhunter

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MIC_FIN said:
Thread title change?

I've been busy all day feeding ducks down the local abattoir... What's the latest?

I'm anticipating opening a ginsters pasty while inhaling a bottle of single malt up my arse.
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Apparently, according to AS (I think) he had a meeting with Xavi about the situation where Xavi explained him he needs to waive up to 50% of his wages if he wants to be a part of the project.

One single source mentioned they both left the meeting smiling. Meltdown ensued
 

Sultan

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Stack said:
I dont think this will happen but I check here constantly hoping it has happened.
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Frenkie is not coming back till next Monday from the US. Very little chance anything can be done till he returns.
 

lefty_jakobz

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hellhunter said:
Apparently, according to AS (I think) he had a meeting with Xavi about the situation where Xavi explained him he needs to waive up to 50% of his wages if he wants to be a part of the project.

One single source mentioned they both left the meeting smiling. Meltdown ensued
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FDJ was smiling because he knows in a couple of weeks he will be able to head out to the famous Curry Mile in Manchester for his favourite Paneer Saag and Peshwari Naan as a treat after signing his 5 year contract at his new dream club Manchester United :)
 

NZT-One

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hellhunter said:
If there was indeed something of a voice of the fans emanating from this forum, I could absolutely understand your stance. But I don't think anyone outside this board really cares what the De Jong muppets of Redcafe think about the management and transfer strategy of United
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Man wouldn't it be great if they would? I'd offer my advice, for MUTV abo or something, I am not expensive, have experience in project management, whats not to like?

But yeah, I agree, probably the voices that count more are the ones with more reach, Twitter and Instagram. Maybe even reddit. Some of my fellow United fans make even fun of me using this place and not reddit.
 

Brownie85

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NZT-One said:
Yeah pretty sure I am not the only one. Plus, and I want to make that clear, of course everybody is entitled to post in whatever way she/he feels suitable and as often as wanted.

^^ thanks for acknowledging part of the issue. Me being so sensitive about it is probably because this is (according to my memories) how Ole wars have started back then... Trust the manager ,Trust the process, "they" wouldn't do xyz without knowing abc" against "I knew it a year ago". And then we kick on the next cycle of negatives against positives spouting the same arguements over an over.

I can answer your question for me personally: they wouldn't improve the situation obviously. But I always liked the idea that "the fanbase" could/would have somewhat of voice, a voice where the extreme positions are filtered out by a reasonable majority. And this entity could voice its discomfort with certain decisions, certain communication, risks whatsoever, getting rid of all that toxic extremist verbal attacks and all that. And right now, I get the feeling again, that the majority has made itself very comfortable "we just have to wait" with 10 plausible reasons to not do something that being passive. And I think, that mindset is destructive as the club certainly keeps an ear on the fanbase and the general level of comfort and I feel they get by too easily if the majority just agrees with the status quo. But the status quo isn't that we can't do anything. So much we can do.
Click to expand...
Care to point out who else has a problem? I'm genuinely interested as I don't believe I've done anything to upset anyone aside from yourself, for some unknown reason.

As to your back the manager and the sorts. Most of us are just using common sense and our understanding of how transfers work to get a vague idea of how things are playing out. Very very rarely do clubs go for players without getting assurances they actually want to join. It would be a waste of time for all involved. You, me, redcafe, media, no one will ever know about them assurances because we're not privy to conversations between managers and players/their agents.

Sometimes them conversations do get leaked but many times they don't. By the time someone has reported that x club has expressed an interest in y player, and its come from a reputable source, x club knows that y player open to joining and the negotiation between clubs begins.

As we know things can and do change. You can guarantee that Raphinha and Kounde told Chelsea that they were open to joining, but in the same sense I bet they'd told them that they'd prefer a move to Barca and if the opportunity arose, they'd take it. Unfortunately for Cheslea that opportunity did arise and they lost their players. Can we be sure that de Jong hasn't told ten Hag that he wants to come but if X club comes in he'd rather go there? No we can't, but we can assume by how persistent he's being, de Jong has said IF I leave, I only want United.

When you see a tweet by someone like Sport who say de Jong absolutely hates the thought of joining United and won't even entertain the offer, whilst only 24 hours earlier saying his priority if he leaves was going to United, don't you think its a bit stupid when people flat out believe it as truth? It gets frustrating. Hell, even anything positive that Sport puts out I call BS because they're so crap at what they do.
 

RU Devil

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Al-T said:
Only thing holding this up is that FDJ is waiting for conformation that this thread has reached 1000 pages. Then he'll feel wanted and loved and put pen to paper!
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Doing my part. There's also the superstitious part of me that believes it. Let's get to 1000 & let's see.
 

NZT-One

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Brownie85 said:
Care to point out who else has a problem? I'm genuinely interested as I don't believe I've done anything to upset anyone aside from yourself, for some unknown reason.

As to your back the manager and the sorts. Most of us are just using common sense and our understanding of how transfers work to get a vague idea of how things are playing out. Very very rarely do clubs go for players without getting assurances they actually want to join. It would be a waste of time for all involved. You, me, redcafe, media, no one will ever know about them assurances because we're not privy to conversations between managers and players/their agents.

Sometimes them conversations do get leaked but many times they don't. By the time someone has reported that x club has expressed an interest in y player, and its come from a reputable source, x club knows that y player open to joining and the negotiation between clubs begins.

As we know things can and do change. You can guarantee that Raphinha and Kounde told Chelsea that they were open to joining, but in the same sense I bet they'd told them that they'd prefer a move to Barca and if the opportunity arose, they'd take it. Unfortunately for Cheslea that opportunity did arise and they lost their players. Can we be sure that de Jong hasn't told ten Hag that he wants to come but if X club comes in he'd rather go there? No we can't, but we can assume by how persistent he's being, de Jong has said IF I leave, I only want United.

When you see a tweet by someone like Sport who say de Jong absolutely hates the thought of joining United and won't even entertain the offer, whilst only 24 hours earlier saying his priority if he leaves was going to United, don't you think its a bit stupid when people flat out believe it as truth? It gets frustrating. Hell, even anything positive that Sport puts out I call BS because they're so crap at what they do.
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You are running into open doors (a saying in German, hopefully it works in English too). I am the last one to ask people to consume twitter for news purposes. Not even news are really suited for that nowadays to be honest as everybody is clinging for attention and clicks. You are right, we shouldn't react on some random tweets. But that isn't, at least not from my perception, what many people are doing, sure there are a few overreactions here and there but the majority of "sceptics" base their thinking on the overall picture. Which is the same one that you are basing your opinion on. In your perception this instills optimism, in my perception it doesn't really. Plus everybody has different expectations towards our staff, our decision makers and the transfer window in general. As long as those expectations aren't aligned, misunderstandings will always be there.

I think, the conversation today made something clear: some of you generate enough optimism from the current status quo that they feel there is nothing else for the club to do at the moment. Which is a perfectly valid stance, but it isn't the only possible stance, I am sure you agree. As I described, we could or should do many things to make the most of the situation. Like either thinking about closing the measly gap of 14 million or by making sure we use the time we are now waiting on the FDJ thing to make contact with another midfielder, maybe with another skill set than FDJ maybe with the same as some sort of backup.

"Care to point out who else has a problem?" I'll leave that to the people themselves, let me ensure you, that nobody called my number to get emotional support. What I can tell you is that I get triggered by comments to other people, so I'm pretty others get triggered by some things as well. You made it clear, no mean intentions were there, case closed. I'll try to remind myself while reading that all is fun and not to react to severely. Maybe others can do the same when the occasional "transfer is dead" thing pops up. I mean, we know it isn't dead just because of one tweet. We don't need to have the full parade every time.
 

MexicanCowboy

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If he really reduces his salary then I will believe his words saying Barca is his dream club and I will like him to stay forever. So far I didn't care too much if he was sold. But if he does something like that he will deserve a lot of praise.
 

pocco

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Plant0x84 said:
I still don’t believe the club or ETH would discuss with Barca if we had been told no by the player. All the noise in the media is exactly that, just noise. I judge based on how people are acting and both Barca and Utd are pushing for this transfer to happen still. I’m confident when fdj is satisfied with his remuneration package he’ll happily move.
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The early, early reports when this first broke were that FDJ said no or wasn't that interested when talking to ETH. Then he apparently became intrigued. Then ETH apparently felt he could persuade him. I feel like he's not ruled it out as he wasn't sure where he'd stand, and that United and Barca have negotiated because they thought between both clubs they could convince him to leave. That hasn't happened, probably because deep down he just isn't that interested. There's a million different ways ETH and FDJ conversations could have gone that weren't FDJ saying I want to join but giving us a glimmer of hope. It seems our whole strategy this summer is to rely on ETH to identify players. Perhaps he's said FDJ is the only midfielder he can vouch for being good enough, so just go all in and if we don't get him, we'll revisit next year.

The bolded is in no way factual. We might have given up any time within the last few weeks for all we know. Barca don't seem to be pushing all that hard at all and they've been fairly amicable with FDJ from what I've seen. I think their ideal scenario is that they can convince him to stay on reduced terms. Given the lack of interest in him I wouldn't rule that out and I've said that for a long time.
 
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