Gareth Bale Transfer Speculation | Done

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Theon

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I understand the argument perfectly. Quality players that aren't World Class are being sold for £30-40m (like Witsel, Lucas, Hulk, Pastore, Fernandinho etc) therefore it follows that the market value of World Class players is obviously above this - I put my arbitrary figure at around £50m.

I'm using all clubs that are spending big as an example as to how the value of players has risen. No club is going to spend £20m more than a players value just because they can. "Oil clubs" are paying the market value, which is dictated by the huge revenues of the top teams.

Refer to my example previously - if you gave every club £500m every players worth would increase (you must surely at least agree on this). This being the case why wouldn't transfer fees hugely increase due to an extra £150m+ being "gifted" to top clubs?

Lets turn it around, think of truly World Class player's that has transferred clubs or has had an offer turned down (suggesting a higher market value) in the last 2-3 years (where the price wasn't distorted by contract situations) and the fee that was paid, such as:

Torres - £50m (Oil)
Neymar - £50m (none oil)
Suarez - £40m rejected (none oil)
Bale - Apparently c.£80+m (none oil)
Ronaldo - £80m (none oil)
Kaka - £56m (none oil)
Ibrahimovic - c. £57m (none oil)

There is a pattern that many of these players aren't being bought by the clubs that are apparently inflating the market.

Out of curiosity could you explain to me why Rio Ferdinand, Veron and Rooney were worth £27-30m each 10-12 years ago, but now that our revenues have doubled and profitability tripled that they wouldn't be worth substantially more than this? Unless you believe that United were inflating the market back then just that the "oil clubs" are apparently doing now.
Two points that aren't that important but should be cleared up. Firstly oil clubs is just a convenient way of describing the buyers. I know it sounds stupid but its easier than having to say "by City, Chelsea, Monoco, PSG, Zenit etc". Secondly when you say non oil for Bale, Ronaldo and Kaka the buyer there is Madrid and I included them in the list of those offering huge fees - they have always done this.

1) I'm not entirely sure what your point is when you list those world class players going for huge fees. That isn't really relevant, the issue is non world class players going for huge fees - as you said at the beginning that is what distorts the market.

There was nothing out of the ordinary with the Kaka or Ronaldo transfer fees. Taking into account inflation Zidane was more expensive than Kaka and the second most expensive of all time behind Ronaldo, Figo was around the same amount - so the market for world class players hasn't shifted much yet, but the Bale transfer if it materialises would probably start that process off.

2) You say that you are using all clubs to demonstrate that the entire market has risen, when this isn't true. At its most basic the problem is that certain players are getting sold at inflated values and that this impacts the rest of the market - the teams doing this are predominantly 'oil clubs'.

Look at the list you yourself put up of players getting sold for inflated fees, Cavani, Torres, Falcao, Hulk, Lucas, Pastore, Fernandinho, Bale, Jovetic (not sure why he is in there), Witsel, Rodriguez. Every single one was sold to the clubs I am talking about, the ones that are willing to pay inflated values.

How can you not recognise that? It isn't a coincidence that all these shit deals are being done by clubs with mega rich owners. They aren't 'apparently' inflating the market at all, it's blatantly clear that they already have done so. The Hulk, Witsel, Rodriguez etc etc, transfers affect the price of other players. If Monoco and PSG overpay then that effects the pricing throughout the market.

You are claiming that all clubs are paying these daft prices and that this just represents the market, well find me transfers from United, Arsenal, Juventus, Milan etc that show the same inflated valuations. We dropped out of Lucas because PSG were paying daft price for example.

3) The last paragraph makes little sense, because Rio, Rooney and Veron justified the fees - that is what they were worth. It's like I said before with Martinez, you don't seem able to see the difference between Bayern spending £35million on Javi Martinez and PSG spending £40million on Pastore. United weren't inflating the market when they bought Rooney for £28million because that was his market value. Just because it was a big fee doesn't mean it isn't a players market value - the same it was for Figo, Rui Costa, Vieri, Nedved etc etc.

If you don't like the idea of market value then just ask yourself whether we overpaid for Rooney?

Then ask did Monoco overpay for Rodriguez? Or Zenit for Hulk? Witsel? Pastore?

In the former example it was a big fee but it was in line with what you would expect to pay, Rooney was the best prospect in English football. It doesn't change anything in the market because no inflated fees are being paid.

In the latter example it does exactly that. Look at Brendan Rodgers at the press conference - "If Bale is worth £100million then so is Suarez", in the same way Levy will be saying "If Rodriguez is worth £40million then Bale is worth £80million".
 

GlastonSpur

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Already wheeling and dealing with Madrid, "we this and us that" indeed. Heh heh heh...
I think you'll find that all the (attempted) wheeling and dealing comes from RM, and much of that is invented by Marca.

However, it takes two clubs to make a deal, although RM seem not to have realised this yet. The only "talks" that have occurred between Spurs and RM have involved the latter being informed that Bale is not for sale.
 

Zen86

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Difference is, we had Champions League football when Ronaldo was with us. Spurs don't and with the interest Real are showing, a move could end up being pushed through this season, though Spurs are currently standing firm.
True but CL football or not, Ronaldo was pretty desperate to leave and was running his mouth off far more than Bale has. We stood firm, saved face and raked in a big fee at the end of it, and we know how stubborn Levy can be.
 

Brophs

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I hadn't realised you had to adopt the most extreme opinion possible or be considered to be on the fence. That leaves me in a bit of a bind as to whether Wayne Rooney's just a fatter John Hartson, or the best player I've ever seen.
 

Fergie's Man

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I think you'll find that all the (attempted) wheeling and dealing comes from RM, and much of that is invented by Marca.

However, it takes two clubs to make a deal, although RM seem not to have not yet realised this. The only "talks" that have occurred between Spurs and RM have involved the latter being informed that Bale is not for sale.
You have really come alive again. One piece of pish out of AVB and you have Bale staying.

It is beyond me why any player would want to work for Levy. In a way it serves Bale right for allowing himself to be coaxed into signing that last contract extension.

Any normal club would jump at a big offer and re-invest wisely, but not Levy.
 

Fergie's Man

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I hadn't realised you had to adopt the most extreme opinion possible or be considered to be on the fence. That leaves me in a bit of a bind as to whether Wayne Rooney's just a fatter John Hartson, or the best player I've ever seen.
Erm, not required. But I am sure you know that anyway.
 

Zen86

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You have really come alive again. One piece of pish out of AVB and you have Bale staying.

It is beyond me why any player would want to work for Levy. In a way it serves Bale right for allowing himself to be coaxed into signing that last contract extension.

Any normal club would jump at a big offer and re-invest wisely, but not Levy.
Yeah, because Spurs with a fresh £85m in their pockets (and everyone knowing it) late on in the transfer window is really going to lead to some shrewd signings.

Spurs are buggered if they sell now and I'm sure Levy knows that.
 

Fergie's Man

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I think you'll find that all the (attempted) wheeling and dealing comes from RM, and much of that is invented by Marca.

However, it takes two clubs to make a deal, although RM seem not to have realised this yet. The only "talks" that have occurred between Spurs and RM have involved the latter being informed that Bale is not for sale.
What makes you say this? Because AVB said it? :rolleyes:
 

Fergie's Man

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Yeah, because Spurs with a fresh £85m in their pockets (and everyone knowing it) late on in the transfer window is really going to lead to some shrewd signings.

Spurs are buggered if they sell now and I'm sure Levy knows that.
You are assuming that this re-investment will be this summer! I am not.
 

kouroux

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It is stupid for Spurs not to have sold Bale already and used that money to get good players to improve their team overall. Bale alone doesn't equal 2-3 quality signings.
 

GlastonSpur

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You have really come alive again. One piece of pish out of AVB and you have Bale staying.
... .
Excuse me? I've maintained that Bale will be staying since months ago.

The only thing that might change this is IF RM come up with the alleged £100m offer, with a very substantial amount of that up front. But I doubt they will, because I doubt they can.
 

Fergie's Man

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Is that supposed to be a reason why they would want to sell now, instead of next summer?
He is at his top price right now, after such a good season. There won't be any higher price than he is fetching right now.

Of course, if you subscribe to the idea that he will help Spurs get Champions League football, then by all means keep the unhappy player.
 

Fergie's Man

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Excuse me? I've maintained that Bale will be staying since months ago.

The only thing that might change this is IF RM come up with the alleged £100m offer, with a very substantial amount of that up front. But I doubt they will, because I doubt they can.
We couldn't get you to answer whether he was staying or not last week. You skirted around the edges and flannelled all of us with your ifs and buts. Today, after Levy's puppet pissed his player off, you are dead cert again.
 

Zen86

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He is at his top price right now, after such a good season. There won't be any higher price than he is fetching right now.

Of course, if you subscribe to the idea that he will help Spurs get Champions League football, then by all means keep the unhappy player.
I rate AVB quite highly and they've certainly got a chance.

Either way, I think you're quite deluded if you think Spurs will be happy to sell Bale and not sign any replacements.
 

Fergie's Man

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I rate AVB quite highly and they've certainly got a chance.

Either way, I think you're quite deluded if you think Spurs will be happy to sell Bale and not sign any replacements.
No more deluded than you if you think that Bale will be staying, to be sold next year to RM.

I think they suddenly realised how shite they were without him last night.
 

GlastonSpur

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We couldn't get you to answer whether he was staying or not last week. You skirted around the edges and flannelled all of us with your ifs and buts. Today, after Levy's puppet pissed his player off, you are dead cert again.
You really are quite ridiculous. Is Moyes the "puppet" of the MUFC club chairman simply because he's the team manager? And do you imagine that AVB doesn't know precisely what has and has not been communicated to RM by Spurs?

As for the rest, it's BS. Last week I said exactly the same .... that IF RM came up with this stupendous offer we keep hearing about then maybe Levy will take it, but I that I doubted RM have the cash.
 

GlastonSpur

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No more deluded than you if you think that Bale will be staying, to be sold next year to RM.

I think they suddenly realised how shite they were without him last night.
A pre-season friendly played with a largely 2nd string team ... and suddenly Spurs are doomed :lol:

I guess you said the same about your season when United lost to some Japanese team - right?
 

Fergie's Man

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No, it's far more deluded actually.
OK, time will tell.

You see, I think Spurs are bloody minded enough to drag this to the end and they might find that a replacement purchase this summer will be very difficult.

feck me, they even tried to sign Berbatov back last year, on deadline day. Beaten by Fulham. He was available for no money all summer.
 

Fergie's Man

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A pre-season friendly played with a largely 2nd string team ... and suddenly Spurs are doomed :lol:

I guess you said the same about your season when United lost to some Japanese team - right?
Nobody said they were doomed, but his absence was very noticeable. Placing words into my mouth will not help your decision making process.
 

Sandikan

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Hurry up and sell Bale Tottenham....we can't get Ronaldo until you do :angel:
 

Fergie's Man

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You really are quite ridiculous. Is Moyes the "puppet" of the MUFC club chairman simply because he's the team manager? And do you imagine that AVB doesn't know precisely what has and has not been communicated to RM by Spurs?

As for the rest, it's BS. Last week I said exactly the same .... that IF RM came up with this stupendous offer we keep hearing about then maybe Levy will take it, but I that I doubted RM have the cash.
I am sorry fella, but you were giving politician answers, only when you actually chose to reply. You are full of shite as ever.

And yes, AVB does give me the impression of being spineless. The same when at Chelsea.
 

GlastonSpur

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Nobody said they were doomed, but his absence was very noticeable. ....
Yes, and so were the absences of Kaboul, Vertonghen, Sandro, Paulinho and Soldado. Together with Bale that's at least 6 first choice players who didn't feature. The players who did feature included a 20 year-old reserve striker (Kane) and a midfielder (Livermore) playing as CB.

The fact that you wish to cite this pre-season friendly as evidence of anything speaks volumes as your credibility.
 

Fergie's Man

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Yes, and so were the absences of Kaboul, Vertonghen, Sandro, Paulinho and Soldado. Together with Bale that's at least 6 first choice players who didn't feature. The players who did feature included a 20 year-old reserve striker (Kane) and a midfielder (Livermore) playing as CB.

The fact that you wish to cite this pre-season friendly as evidence of anything speaks volumes as your credibility.
I find talking to you very similar to talking to a wall. His absence was very obvious last night, the team was incredibly flat, what is your problem accepting this?

The fact the other players mentioned, did not play, does not detract from that. None of them will replace the dynamic he brings to the team and when he transfers to RM, your team will struggle.

I don't think you are qualified to discuss anybody's credibility.
 

GlastonSpur

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I am sorry fella, but you were giving politician answers, only when you actually chose to reply. You are full of shite as ever.

And yes, AVB does give me the impression of being spineless. The same when at Chelsea.
Whatever, Spurs chose to offer the Spurs job to him and not Moyes. And it's probably time you changed your user-name to Moyes' Man .... after all, Gollum did have a rather prominent spine as I recall from the films.
 

GlastonSpur

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I find talking to you very similar to talking to a wall. His absence was very obvious last night, the team was incredibly flat, what is your problem accepting this?

The fact the other players mentioned, did not play, does not detract from that. None of them will replace the dynamic he brings to the team and when he transfers to RM, your team will struggle.

I don't think you are qualified to discuss anybody's credibility.
As I've already implied, the results in pre-season friendlies are pretty much meaningless. All the more so when played with a fairly scratch team. Your desperation to point score - and on such a flimsy basis - is shining through.

However, if we take your silly comments at face value then I'm surprised that you didn't tip us to win the league when we won the prior friendly 6 - 0, or tip United for relegation when you lost in Japan. All you're really doing is exposing your footballing ignorance.
 

acnumber9

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Whatever, Spurs chose to offer the Spurs job to him and not Moyes. And it's probably time you changed your user-name to Moyes' Man .... after all, Gollum did have a rather prominent spine as I recall from the films.
And Utd chose Moyes rather than AVB.
 

amolbhatia50k

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This type of thing is always the delusion of United fans ... pace Modric, Bale, Thiago, Fabregas etc etc.
We were never after pace. I'm going to deny that one.

I didn't think we'd get either of fabregas or thiago. In fact I'm not confident of getting big talents from those parts if we're up against real or barca. They are top dogs for those players. But in England, were the top club quite clearly. And we wouldn't be facing a bidding war against Chelsea or City and their billionaire owners either.
 
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