When was this? What I saw was post match in the studio? Certainly didn't say those things then and even said that having seen the videos he's not angry with Pogba.
Gary Neville
- Thread starter jymufc20
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He didn’t need to go to ‘great lengths to show Pogba didn’t take the penalty from Rashford’. I mean, he didn’t take the pen from Rashford, he just took a penalty for United and didn’t score. The fact that he went to any length at all to make that point was solely because he created it.
The commentary or nobody else accused Pogba of ‘taking the penalty’ from Rash. So why would Neville need to do a 25 minute presentation to show that he didn’t? It’s because he himself, in his shit-stirring way suggested the conspiracy theory in the first place. He suggested it, then backed out of it immediately with a disclaimer, then continued the point for another 20 minutes, and proceeded to give a presentation on how terrible it would have been if Pogba DID take the penalty from Rashford, while adding the odd disclaimer that ‘he’s not actually saying that he did’. And then closed with ‘we cannot, CANNOT have that, what we’ve seen tonight with the penalty’ (which of course, didn’t happen because as he said - IF).
Funny how Neville never gets outraged about Rashford’s ridiculous attempts to imitate Ronaldo on freekicks. You know he would do so if it was Pogba.
There are two points here:
1. Pogba might have taken the penalty off Rashford
2. "Why is there a debate on who takes the penalty? I don't like it. There should never be a debate. Pogba has missed four in the last 12 months. You'd think he has had his chance. Rashford scored last week - take the penalty. But there wasn't a leader out there. Something wasn't right. They couldn't make a decision between them."
Neville disproved (1) by showing a clip from a previous game.
He took a position on (2). What you've quoted is Neville's reiteration of that. His issue was the lack of leadership which led to an on-pitch debate that resulted in a poor decision that meant United dropped 2 points.
You only 'know' it because you have a predefined opinion. It's textbook confirmation bias.
In the absence of evidence, you're creating a fantasy to prove your own agenda.
Bollocks ! Nevilles analysis of tonight was spot on . Stop being a Pogba fan boy . Pogba shouldn't have been hitting the pen but in my eyes it's the managers fault for allowing that situation to even happen . Pogba gets praised like every other player when he deserves it and tonight Nev was spot on with what he said
I guess it’s an agenda against Gary Neville’s agenda. The tone was disturbing and the amount of time spent on it ludicrous. Shame because it was a good game with plenty more to analyse for both teams.
Point 1 was not a point he needed to disprove in the first place, as it was created solely by him. Why have a debate with yourself on a hypothetical? He established Pogba didn’t take the penalty, but still felt the need to discuss if as if he hypothetically did.
Point 2 is also his own fabrication. There was no argument on the pitch. There was no debate. Rashford gave the ball to Pogba with no fuss. And he missed.
What followed was, to me, a 25 minute hatchet job on Pogba based on how bad it would have been if things were not as they actually were, but were instead a far worse hypothetical version of what actually happened.
If his points theories were disproved (by himself none other!), then discuss the actual fecking facts of the game as opposed to having a big tangent on a player taking a penalty off another, and thinking it is fine because you add the disclaimer ‘this isn’t actually what even happened!’.
Pogba was our designated pk taker last season. This season, Rashford explained after the Chelsea match that the team has agreed that whoever wins the penalty is free to take it.
Why is Neville taking it upon himself to single out Pogba in the first place? it is his own opinion that Pogba is unqualified to take a penalty for us, clearly Ole or the players disagree with this. How does it have anything to do with 'lack of leadership' if they have already agreed upon the system in advance?
About 1) Why is he disproving something that was never even suggested in the first place? To suggest that, would mean to suggest that Rashford took the penalty off Pogba last week which wasn't true because Rashford himself clarified it.
What Neville said about Pogba straight after the game was textbook confirmation bias. He then backtracked once he wasn't clouded by his emotions any more and realised this couldn't be backed up by any evidence.
No-one at all would be disputing about the penalty taker if it wasn't for Neville creating it in the first place.
Rashford has a 100% success rate with penalties, and scored one last week.
Pogba has a 64% success rate with penalties, and has missed 4 in the last year (the most of anyone in the PL).
Regardless of Neville, the issue would have been discussed. United lost 2 points because of it.
That's what bothers me. Pogba has lots of different haircuts and uses social media so is treated like a diva whatever he does.
That's the way i took it too. Completely unnecessary and absurd comments to make, considering the media circus constantly surrounding us and Pogba. Where is the actual analysis about the match?
I agree with this.
Maybe so, but you would have to admit, it would be a sidenote in the match at best. 2 minute chat maybe. Not this media storm incoming Utd's way this week. Do we really need all this again?
A missed penalty in a 1:1 match is always going to be the main talking point.
Even more so when it's taken by an inferior penatly taker after a superior penalty taker stands aside.
I don't like the politics behind the decision. Those 2 dropped points could hurt us at the end of the season.
So what did he say about lingards wasteful 2 clear cut chances? Or that perpetual embarrassment of a free kick Rashford takes?
What politics? It wasn't a problem last week. In fact, that same system led to Rashford taking a pen and scoring last week that he otherwise wouldn't have, considering Pogba is considered our main pk taker.
Yes we dropped 2 points and we missed a pk, it sucks but it happens.
I'm more concerned about us not replacing Herrera or Lingard being in the 10 position than the debate over whether Pogba or Rashford take a pk.
Neville believes that it was, because when taken over a larger sample as the season progresses, it'll undermine what should be a penalty taking meritocracy.
That's his point.
In his own words, it shows a lack of "leadership" which is the thing he says he "doesn't like".
I don't know what Ole's instructions are for penalty takers. But there's really no reason from their respective penalty records to believe that Rashford is more likely to convert a penalty than Pogba. The samples are tiny (Rashford has scored two penalties for United's senior team in his life!). Its like deciding one coin is more likely to be heads than another coin because you flipped it twice and it was heads both times while the other one was heads a few times and tails a few times. Pogba is an excellent technical player and ball striker. I can easily believe that he is the better (or equally good) penalty taker and that has shown up in practice.
If two players both want to take a penalty and feel comfortable doing so, why can't they share the duties? Wouldn't that lead to increased morale? After-all, they are a team.
I fundamentally don't agree with what Neville is saying, because i don't know how it can be a problem, as long as everything is decided beforehand between them.
For Neville to bring leadership into it, is he then criticising Ole considering he is happy with this arrangement?
Also are we really going to question Pogba's credentials to take a pen for us? Rashford has a tiny sample size, how is that accurate to gauge?
At the end of the day, as long as Ole and the team are happy with it, who cares really?
Should people who were absolutely abject at managing be able to say what constitutes good or bad managing? I take anything Neville says with the punchiest of salts.
That isn't correct. Sample sizes don't need to be huge to garner a lot of information from them, it depends on what you're analysing but obviously coin-flips are nothing like penalties. Missing them vs. scoring them has a big effect on confidence in the later ones.
If you flip 5 coins and they all land on heads it is meaningless and the odds are still 50/50 for the next one. If you take 5 penalties and miss them all, you don't take the next one.
It’s a bit dramatic.
But nowhere near as dramatic as the crap we can read on here day in day out.
The only difference is it’s on live tv and somebody is getting paid for the privilege.
Neville would not dare to critise the English players. When United don't win it's the foreign players fault .
I still can't believe that his grandparents named their son 'Neville'.
I mean WTF were they thinking?
I mean WTF were they thinking?
FFS did Neville really spend half hour talking about this non issue?
Pogba has been Uniteds main penalty taker for awhile, if there's problem, it's down to management issue then.
Pogba didn't deliberately throw the chance away, we did not create enough clear cut chance to deserve 3 point anyway. I bet if this happened to his boys, Lingard & Rashford, Neville wouldn't even allow to anyone to bring it up. The bias is real
Pogba has been Uniteds main penalty taker for awhile, if there's problem, it's down to management issue then.
Pogba didn't deliberately throw the chance away, we did not create enough clear cut chance to deserve 3 point anyway. I bet if this happened to his boys, Lingard & Rashford, Neville wouldn't even allow to anyone to bring it up. The bias is real
His father is Neville Neville. There's that.
You’re absolutely right. Takes an oppo fan who has a sense of perspective to point it out though. Read the match day thread. Scores of posts calling James not good enough to be a United player after one game. Last week we had a thread saying he was the new Kanchelskis. fecking mental some of the posters on here.
I often wonder if Gaz would have been so tough on Pogbs if he was from Manchester, Bury or Warrington instead of from France.
No one accused Pogba of treachery though.
Hm I didn't, that was sort of my point.You thought the Pogba to Real stories would die down? Here we go again indeed.
Thats a big difference.
Well that was what Steve said.
Depends on whether the player hes comparing Rashford to is English and white. This is how systemic racism works.
Pogba = Black, Muslim and Foreign
Rashford= Black and English
Pogba will be discriminated against given these factors.
If the comparison player was Martial, he'd be called "lazy" or "uninterested" due to being foreign and black.
If idk, the comparison player was Beckham (or someone with his characteristics of being white and English), then Rashford would be criticised
Not sure about that. Henry played for our biggest (on pitch) rivals when he was at Arsenal and he interviewed Zlatan + Pogba. Carragher is a massive fan boy of Sir Alex Ferguson and actually sought out a private conversation with him after Carrick's testimonial. He also did an interview with Lukaku at Everton's training ground while wearing an Everton kit. I dont think that Neville would go and interview Pep Guardiola at City's training ground although given how anti United he's become, I wouldn't put it past him
He said it was treachery to take a penalty off another player
If anyone should be accused of hysteria it's Neville, he couldn't keep his emotions in check and latches on to any excuse to take jabs at Pogba. It's one thing to hold an opinion, it's another thing entirely to single out a player and whinge like a miserable cnut about him for the best part of half an hour.
It’s Neville’s initial comments ...”typical you...selfish, treacherous” which he then took back almost immediately.
If anyone thinks Neville is stupid and doesn’t know that that’s the headline right there. Every paper and website.
But he’s said it and then backed out knowing it’s already out there. If you initially thought it but then realised it’s not the case, then you really shouldn’t character assassinate someone for reasons you yourself already don’t agree.
To then spend 25 minutes debating a hypothetical point. Keep the focus off the game and even really off the missed pen, because really now the focus is on the character of the player, where Neville always puts it in Pogba case.
It’s unjust and it’s not helpful to Manchester United in anyway.
To look at this another way, had Daniel James won the penalty and decided to take it and missed, the situation would be exactly the same....but the discussion completely different.
It’s really pathetic from Neville given he’s lived through being a footballer and seen what Beckham, Ronaldo and his own brother went through when the media character assasignated then. He’s the main protagonist in this, in fact I’d say he’s almost the sole protagonist. He keeps this narrative going at every opportunity. It’s vindictive and sly and actually extremely selfish as it serves only to benefit Neville and his employers.
If anyone thinks Neville is stupid and doesn’t know that that’s the headline right there. Every paper and website.
But he’s said it and then backed out knowing it’s already out there. If you initially thought it but then realised it’s not the case, then you really shouldn’t character assassinate someone for reasons you yourself already don’t agree.
To then spend 25 minutes debating a hypothetical point. Keep the focus off the game and even really off the missed pen, because really now the focus is on the character of the player, where Neville always puts it in Pogba case.
It’s unjust and it’s not helpful to Manchester United in anyway.
To look at this another way, had Daniel James won the penalty and decided to take it and missed, the situation would be exactly the same....but the discussion completely different.
It’s really pathetic from Neville given he’s lived through being a footballer and seen what Beckham, Ronaldo and his own brother went through when the media character assasignated then. He’s the main protagonist in this, in fact I’d say he’s almost the sole protagonist. He keeps this narrative going at every opportunity. It’s vindictive and sly and actually extremely selfish as it serves only to benefit Neville and his employers.
I didn’t say it was a massive problem. It is a detail. Deciding on the pitch who takes a penalty smacks of schoolboy amateurism. Who is the better penalty taker? I’m not supporting either player, I’m just suggesting that the person who’s best at them day in day out in training and statistically in matches should shoulder the responsibility when they’re on the pitch.
Surely not. What if 5 people want to take a penalty? Do you rotate each week? What if Phil Jones has a good feeling one day about his left foot taking a penalty? On the contrary, not having just one person taking on the duties until relieved by the manager would possibly lead to resentment.
The reality of the situation is this:
(i) Every club should have a designated penalty taker, and claiming that if someone earns a penalty then they should get to take it is ridiculous. It might be a luxury for a team that are miles ahead in a game, or absolutely flying generally, neither of which applies to United.
In the 90s, when Southampton or Newcastle were awarded a penalty, Shearer didn't allow David Ginola to take one because he'd earned it and has a big ego, and Le Tissier didn't let Francis Benali have a go because he's his mate. Shearer and Le Tissier took every penalty because they among the best penalty takers ever, and very reliable. You don't even allow anything other than your best free-kick takers to take free-kicks, and there is a far, far reduced chance of a goal in that situation, so you certainly don't muck about with penalties, which can be absolutely decisive.
(ii) That's leaving aside how weak it now makes Solksjaer look when he now has to pretend that this was all planned before the game. Yeah, we're going to have two designated penalty takers, and then let them decide on the pitch who wants to take it. That makes perfect sense. According to Solskjaer, it's good that Pogba took the penalty because he wanted to take it. Well, what happens if Rashford wants to take it as well? Which he probably did. What Solskjaer said in the post-match interview is specious, at best, the obvious reason being that he couldn't say that Pogba had effectively overruled him on the field of play, simply because he felt like it.
(iii) It's hard to say exactly what happened on the field of play, but it certainly seems that Pogba just decided that he was going to take the penalty, and that Rashford had been expecting to take it. It certainly didn't seem that it was definitely known that Pogba would be taking penalties. And, anyway, what sort of team swaps its penalty takers from one game to the next? Why would you take Rashford off penalties when he scored in the previous game? What sense does it make to have two penalty takers, when both of them are likely to be on the field when you're awarded a penalty? Are you going to have an on-field debate every time that you have a penalty?
It's pretty obvious that Rashford was the designated penalty taker, which is normal practice for every club to have one, and that Pogba simply overruled him because he thinks he's the big star, and then missed. I'm not a United fan, it's just obviously the case. If it's not the case, it's simply preposterous for a team to have two penalty takers, for neither of them to have seniority, and for them to potentially be in a position of debating before every penalty who will take it, depending on who 'feels like it'.
(i) Every club should have a designated penalty taker, and claiming that if someone earns a penalty then they should get to take it is ridiculous. It might be a luxury for a team that are miles ahead in a game, or absolutely flying generally, neither of which applies to United.
In the 90s, when Southampton or Newcastle were awarded a penalty, Shearer didn't allow David Ginola to take one because he'd earned it and has a big ego, and Le Tissier didn't let Francis Benali have a go because he's his mate. Shearer and Le Tissier took every penalty because they among the best penalty takers ever, and very reliable. You don't even allow anything other than your best free-kick takers to take free-kicks, and there is a far, far reduced chance of a goal in that situation, so you certainly don't muck about with penalties, which can be absolutely decisive.
(ii) That's leaving aside how weak it now makes Solksjaer look when he now has to pretend that this was all planned before the game. Yeah, we're going to have two designated penalty takers, and then let them decide on the pitch who wants to take it. That makes perfect sense. According to Solskjaer, it's good that Pogba took the penalty because he wanted to take it. Well, what happens if Rashford wants to take it as well? Which he probably did. What Solskjaer said in the post-match interview is specious, at best, the obvious reason being that he couldn't say that Pogba had effectively overruled him on the field of play, simply because he felt like it.
(iii) It's hard to say exactly what happened on the field of play, but it certainly seems that Pogba just decided that he was going to take the penalty, and that Rashford had been expecting to take it. It certainly didn't seem that it was definitely known that Pogba would be taking penalties. And, anyway, what sort of team swaps its penalty takers from one game to the next? Why would you take Rashford off penalties when he scored in the previous game? What sense does it make to have two penalty takers, when both of them are likely to be on the field when you're awarded a penalty? Are you going to have an on-field debate every time that you have a penalty?
It's pretty obvious that Rashford was the designated penalty taker, which is normal practice for every club to have one, and that Pogba simply overruled him because he thinks he's the big star, and then missed. I'm not a United fan, it's just obviously the case. If it's not the case, it's simply preposterous for a team to have two penalty takers, for neither of them to have seniority, and for them to potentially be in a position of debating before every penalty who will take it, depending on who 'feels like it'.