On what evidence? It looks mid table at best whatever back 4 we put out.No but Shaw Lindelof Bailly and Dalot would be.
I'm pretty sure Mourinho would replace them all if he could just like any future manager will want to. We clearly aren't going to invest to do that. The question to Neville was is he getting the best out of them?After three seasons, I think better managers would not still have that defence and not be in the business of offering outrageous contract extensions to the likes of Shaw and another 1 year extension to Young. The manager is to blame for the so-called 'state of that defence'.
He’s had ample opportunity to replace them before this season and failed. His two CB transfers have been failures. He isolated Shaw for two seasons and didn’t bring in a right back for the first two seasons.On what evidence? It looks mid table at best whatever back 4 we put out.
I'm pretty sure Mourinho would replace them all if he could just like any future manager will want to. We clearly aren't going to invest to do that. The question to Neville was is he getting the best out of them?
Yes they have been failures, just like Mangala was at City and Lovren at Liverpool but they've been able to bring in £75m players to replace them. In addition Jones, Rojo and Bailly have been liabilities fitness wise. It's also clear how much they were being bailed out by De Gea last season now his form has dropped.He’s had ample opportunity to replace them before this season and failed. His two CB transfers have been failures. He isolated Shaw for two seasons and didn’t bring in a right back for the first two seasons.
Only now that he hasn’t been backed to the hilt is he using it as an excuse.
And no he hasn’t got the best out of them - certainly not this season.
The same defenders got us to second in the table last year (even though we were mediocre going forwards last year) and now suddenly these defenders would struggle to get us into top 8? It’s a joke.
Were Mangala and Lovren brought under Pep or Klopp?Yes they have been failures, just like Mangala was at City and Lovren at Liverpool but they've been able to bring in £75m players to replace them. In addition Jones, Rojo and Bailly have been liabilities fitness wise. It's also clear how much they were being bailed out by De Gea last season now his form has dropped.
Valencia was solid and there was no need to replace but his form has fallen offa cliff this year. Shaw hasn't even been that good, if anything him coming back into the team has resulted in us conceding more.
Ok, Klopp brought in Matip and Klavan who are no more successful than Lindelof and Bailly. What's the difference other than Liverpool being far shrewder in the transfer market than us? On City, Stones and Laporte looked quality targets long before City got them, our scouting is pathetic, it can't all be on Mourinho.Were Mangala and Lovren brought under Pep or Klopp?
Those two managers in general have made some astute signings and they even have the lesser lights in their sides, playing out of their skins and they have the major stars in their set ups enjoying their football and maximizing their talents.
Our manager is doing no such thing. He hamstrings our best talents and he's a dick to some of our lesser players but champions certain favorites who are woefully out of form or out of their depth.
Imagine if we had let him get in guys like Willian or Perisic for god knows how much or £75m for Maguire...
Koulibaly is a different kettle of fish - but he wasn't who we were linked to in the Summer.
Respect your opinion, but it just comes across as you making excuses for Mourinho, whether or not that is what you intend.The only thing Emery doesnt have in common with Wenger is the aggession in pressing. He is pretty much similar in every other aspect.
As for Chelsea, they have built the perfect squad for literally ANY manager to suceed. Their recent bosses have only failed due to player revolts. We are nothing like them. Our squad has holes we refuse to address yet some how some of our fans and our misguided chairman imagine constant changes of managerial direction will miraculously yield different results. Its baffling.
Matip was a free transfer and Klavan was £4.2m. Compare that to the money spent on Lindelof £31m.Ok, Klopp brought in Matip and Klavan who are no more successful than Lindelof and Bailly. What's the difference other than Liverpool being far shrewder in the transfer market than us? On City, Stones and Laporte looked quality targets long before City got them, our scouting is pathetic, it can't all be on Mourinho.
Which magician, er sorry, manager have you got in mind mate?Respect your opinion, but it just comes across as you making excuses for Mourinho, whether or not that is what you intend.
You say that Chelsea have the perfect squad for any manager to succeed. I believe that United have a squad capable of playing fluent attacking football under a new man with those philosophies.
As I addressed in the second sentence.Matip was a free transfer and Klavan was £4.2m. Compare that to the money spent on Lindelof £31m.
Van Dijk was a no brainer and that is why Liverpool spent big bucks on him, he's the perfect modern day CB. Likewise Laporte also fits this bill.
Compare that to our big bucks spending on someone like Lukaku? an ill fit for a team aspiring to be the best team in the modern game.
Then you are mistaken about me excusing JM. Because we have had 3 different managers yet theset of same problems. You could hire a like a Brendan Rodgers/Setien of Betis tomorrow and little would change IMO because a) the squad has holes that keep not being addressed and b) the club has changed philosophy and direction 3 times in 5 years.Respect your opinion, but it just comes across as you making excuses for Mourinho, whether or not that is what you intend.
I insist. No attack oriented manager around will come and play consistent fluid attacking football with our current squad. That has both an utterly dead right flank (both at full back and right winger/forward), a center of defence so weak the rest of the team has to be cagey to compensate for its shirt comings and now a new serious problem at holding midfield. With the occupants of the role either injury prone, terribly off form or not natural in the role.You say that Chelsea have the perfect squad for any manager to succeed. I believe that United have a squad capable of playing fluent attacking football under a new man with those philosophies.
Sure. Because he is the one who couldnt sell a Darmian all summer long despite ample interest. Plus is the one who thought the likes of Alderwereld, Skrinar, Giminez, Romagnoli and Maguire for example were 'no better than Jones' and thought deadline day moves for 'Galacticos' like Godin and a past it Boateng made sense. Right?After three seasons, I think better managers would not still have that defence and not be in the business of offering outrageous contract extensions to the likes of Shaw and another 1 year extension to Young. The manager is to blame for the so-called 'state of that defence'.
This.Sure. Because he is the one who couldnt sell a Darmian all summer long despite ample interest. Plus is the one who thought the likes of Alderwereld, Skrinar, Giminez, Romagnoli and Maguire for example were 'no better than Jones' and thought deadline day moves for 'Galacticos' like Godin and a past it Boateng made sense. Right?
The same Alderwereld who has been making mistakes at Spurs this season and doesn’t look the same force he once was? And Boateng? Past his peak too.Sure. Because he is the one who couldnt sell a Darmian all summer long despite ample interest. Plus is the one who thought the likes of Alderwereld, Skrinar, Giminez, Romagnoli and Maguire for example were 'no better than Jones' and thought deadline day moves for 'Galacticos' like Godin and a past it Boateng made sense. Right?
Yet the hypocrite sat there tring to criticise Martial in order to protect Mourinho. Neville is such a pathetic individual, his words and arguments are filled with agendas and it's quite sad.Imagine if it was Rashford that has just scored in 6 goals in 5 games on a spin... This man and the entire English punditry would be foaming at the mouth praising his name to the high heavens
United is 16th in GA, while having the best GK in the league.Do people think a defence of Shaw, Lindelof, Smalling and Young would definitely be better under another manager?
I don't believe it would require a magician to improve where we are at the moment - we are being sold excuses by a master manipulator who is fighting for his reputation. Failing to build a balanced XI after two and a bit seasons and near on £400m in signings constitutes failure - its as simple as that.Which magician, er sorry, manager have you got in mind mate?
Well a defence of delph, stones,otimendi and walker was laughed at until pep turned it into a title winning defence. Non of those defenders you would have argued are better than ours last season.Do people think a defence of Shaw, Lindelof, Smalling and Young would definitely be better under another manager?
What really changed from last season? It was the same unit that was quite good and Shaw wasn't even playing. if anything, Matic has fallen off a cliff and he doesn't provide the same level of protection anymore but the moron of a manager keeps running him into the ground and complaining about his defenders not being good.Do people think a defence of Shaw, Lindelof, Smalling and Young would definitely be better under another manager?
2nd best in the league last season, with the same players. Jose claiming that he has opened the team up and hence we are conceding more goals this time around - yet we don't look any more open and we aren't scoring more goals. Again - its manipulation of opinion. Perhaps his public declarations that our defenders are not good enough has killed the confidence of our back line? If so - that is on him too.United is 16th in GA, while having the best GK in the league.
Exactly we aren't scoring more so what is he on about.2nd best in the league last season, with the same players. Jose claiming that he has opened the team up and hence we are conceding more goals this time around - yet we don't look any more open and we aren't scoring more goals. Again - its manipulation of opinion. Perhaps his public declarations that our defenders are not good enough has killed the confidence of our back line? If so - that is on him too.
But you can expect them to do what they did less than 18 months ago. Because they've already done itThe answer is far more nuanced than “yeah, Jose is shit”.
He agreed on Sanchez at Arsenal. I agreed with him though that some players you’d be mad to expect too much from. We have a lot of average players in our side. You can’t ask Lingard, Rashford, Young, Smalling etc to turn into Brazil 1970 just because you tell them to play a bit more attacking. Those players will play to the level they’ve always played at, i.e not good enough.
Who is playing worse than they were before Jose took over?But you can expect them to do what they did less than 18 months ago. Because they've already done it
De Gea, Lukaku, Sanchez, Smalling, Rojo and Matic are all playing worse than they were at that time.Who is playing worse than they were before Jose took over?
The Aldewereld rather who is unhapoy at Spurs and wants to leave..The same Alderwereld who has been making mistakes at Spurs this season and doesn’t look the same force he once was?
When were we EVER asked for 70m for them?Likes of Skrinar and Romagnoli are not 70m level defenders neither is Giminez.
The point is even the Maguires are better than Jones and an injured Rojo. But Woodward thought them 'no better than Jones '. Which is appaling to say the leastThey’re not as complete as Van Dijk or primary defenders who will lead a defence and enhance everyone around them. Likewise Maguire who isn’t even the primary defender for England.
Yep. The players got to 2nd but he claims its up there with his best achievements like we should be grateful he brought up this squad to a level they shouldn't be at.2nd best in the league last season, with the same players. Jose claiming that he has opened the team up and hence we are conceding more goals this time around - yet we don't look any more open and we aren't scoring more goals. Again - its manipulation of opinion. Perhaps his public declarations that our defenders are not good enough has killed the confidence of our back line? If so - that is on him too.
Yeah this stuff drives me absolutely crazy. Funnily enough the conversations are different depending on what camp the poster is in too. But it's all spoken about as fact.For absolute clarity, nobody has a clue what went on between Woodward and Mourinho in the summer.
A lot of posters talk of this stuff like it's fact, making up behind the scene conversations (and Woodward's opinions) in the process. All we know for sure is there was clearly lack of progress getting all the players Mourinho wanted - that's it.
And when I see the players we were linked with - I really don't give a shit. They aren't the reason for the poor performance this season.
.Exactly we aren't scoring more so what is he on about.
replies above.The Aldewereld rather who is unhapoy at Spurs and wants to leave..
what happened to being a 'professional' - why has he let it affect his performances so much?
Boateng was all Woodward's idea. Same as Godin.
When were we EVER asked for 70m for them?Jérôme Boateng has phoned José Mourinho to tell him that he will not join Manchester United this summer. United made contact with Bayern Munich on Sunday to inquire what it would cost to sign the Germany international but the deal is now dead before the Premier League club even made an official bid.
Mourinho is desperately trying to bolster a squad that has struggled in pre-season with Boateng one of several names given by the Portuguese manager to the United executive vice-chairman, Ed Woodward, before the summer. However, so far United have only added the Brazil midfielder Fred for £55m, the 19-year-old full-back Diogo Dalot for £19m and the back-up goalkeeper Lee Grant for £1.5m.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-mourinho-he-is-not-joining-manchester-united
We offered £57m - so we basically rated him as good as Laporte and they wanted Van Dijk figures
Woodward had that list since April. At the start of the window and before World Cup the likes of Maguire were getable at 30-40m, Alderwereld too and Giminez was available on a free. It was after World Cup that Maguire's price shot up and Giminez shot to 70m after renewing mid tournament. But some how that to you is 'Mourinho's fault' like he controls the funds.
Who is to say Gimenez would have even wanted to come pre-world cup and if we would even have got the signing done on time knowing Woodward? where is the guarantee that Maguire even at 30-40m is a reliable CB outside of a 3 man backline and for a club the size of United?
The point is even the Maguires are better than Jones and an injured Rojo. But Woodward thought them 'no better than Jones '. Which is appaling to say the least
De Gea and Lukaku are just in poor form. Both were great last season. Smalling I would argue is doing the exact same as he always has, Rojo hasn’t played in about 4 years so doesn’t really count and Matic was great last year, many thought he was our best signing. I don’t think you can blame Jose for turning him into a worse player when he was great under him as recently as last season. He’s just getting on a bit and in need of a rest.De Gea, Lukaku, Sanchez, Smalling, Rojo and Matic are all playing worse than they were at that time.
...except Darmian..
He's the Pied Piper to his acolytes. They'll buy any crap he sells.
Most players are in poor form, thats the point. They arent playing as well as they could. That was the question asked to Neville, is Mourinho getting the best out of everyone? And no he isnt, theres a lot of players who have shown that they are better than they have been this season, in the past.De Gea and Lukaku are just in poor form. Both were great last season. Smalling I would argue is doing the exact same as he always has, Rojo hasn’t played in about 4 years so doesn’t really count and Matic was great last year, many thought he was our best signing. I don’t think you can blame Jose for turning him into a worse player when he was great under him as recently as last season. He’s just getting on a bit and in need of a rest.
The squad are performing as they should be, level wise. Could they be coached better? Of course. But I don’t think we should be pointing fingers at Jose because he can’t get Jesse Lingard playing like Ronaldinho.
There’s poor form because of a managers style, and poor form just because the players aren’t playing to their usual standard. All players go through this, even clubs that win things. The fact that De Gea, Matic and Lukaku played well last season under him suggests they’re in the second category.Most players are in poor form, thats the point. They arent playing as well as they could. That was the question asked to Neville, is Mourinho getting the best out of everyone? And no he isnt, theres a lot of players who have shown that they are better than they have been this season, in the past.
Theres no time to rest on your laurels at a big club. Hell even at a smaller one. Look at Ranieri losing his job the next season after winning the league.There’s poor form because of a managers style, and poor form just because the players aren’t playing to their usual standard. All players go through this, even clubs that win things. The fact that De Gea, Matic and Lukaku played well last season under him suggests they’re in the second category.
You realise A) we need a squad to win something so me naming 14 'crap' players as you called them, proves my point that our squad isn't good enough. B) those 6 'crap' Man City players you mentioned would all most likely walk into our starting 11!!! Our good players are De Gea, Pogba, Shaw at times, Martial currently....who would make Chelsea, Liverpool or City's starting 11?Well if your going to name all the crap players who's not going to agree. I could say how does Otamendi, Kompany, Gundogan, Jesus, Mahrez, and Danielo win a title. They don't look very special to me. At the end of the day we have quality players good enough to compete for this title with a few player 3 max from going for the league and Champions League. Barring we have a 'team' well drilled to trying to win week in week out. Not exploiting opponents weaknesses.
I wonder if he is keeping himself from directly criticising any Utd manager. I don't remember him criticising Moyes, with LvG though I think he had some harsh words which led to a sit-down with the latter (?), but not a criticism since.He is so far up Mou, it's nauseating.
I’m all for signing competition for players to keep them on their toes. Maybe not where De Gea is concerned, but still. I’d definitely be trying to sign a striker this summer.Theres no time to rest on your laurels at a big club. Hell even at a smaller one. Look at Ranieri losing his job the next season after winning the league.
All last season shows is he can do more with what he has right now. He isnt doing it. Thats the part thats worrying
