Hammerfell
Full Member
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- Apr 26, 2015
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How witty.Stop being sexist, it's offensive.
How witty.Stop being sexist, it's offensive.
Equating religion to an economic system? Not sure if you're purposely trying to be dense.Not you or your family deserve to be mocked, but religion does. And no, just saying I don't believe in it is not enough. What kind of argument is that? Then you might as well argue just saying you are not homophobic is enough but don't criticise homophobes. I am not just not religious, I am anti religion. And I am allowed to defend that view. I have no control over what offends you and if it does, then you have to deal with it. We have to be allowed to criticise bad ideas. That does not mean I want to infringe on your right to follow any religion you want. I also "believe" in some ideas (though based on facts). I believe in free markets and the less government, the better. A lot of people don't share that belief (I would even guess a majority on this forum). Some might even call my belief a fairytale. I don't care, they are free to say that. If I'm offended by that, then that is my problem.
How witty.
Without bothering to discuss the whole post, which is called out by Mark Robinson anyway, I'd like to know if anyone attacks you here. Because that's when one defends. Has anyone in this thread told you to believe in God? Or even asked if you believe? Then what do you defend? Mocking is an attack and it's really difficult to continue discussing if such obvious things aren't common knowledge.Not you or your family deserve to be mocked, but religion does. And no, just saying I don't believe in it is not enough. What kind of argument is that? Then you might as well argue just saying you are not homophobic is enough but don't criticise homophobes. I am not just not religious, I am anti religion. And I am allowed to defend that view. I have no control over what offends you and if it does, then you have to deal with it. We have to be allowed to criticise bad ideas. That does not mean I want to infringe on your right to follow any religion you want. I also "believe" in some ideas (though based on facts). I believe in free markets and the less government, the better. A lot of people don't share that belief (I would even guess a majority on this forum). Some might even call my belief a fairytale. I don't care, they are free to say that. If I'm offended by that, then that is my problem.
Hello, I'm gay. Well actually gender fluid too. And I've been a reasonably committed United follower since 1994/95 (got taken to a 0-0 draw with Leeds United at Old Trafford as a 6 year old and was completely hooked from that point on!).
I have to say, I think it's great that people are finally talking about this issue - I've become a lot more comfortable with myself over the years and to be honest am quite happy being openly myself when playing football or going to watch a match (I'm from very near Old Trafford in Manchester though I live in London now for work so get back up when I can). And I do mostly play football with 'straight' guys - not had any issues myself.
However, I have actually chatted with a gay player who plays for one of the top u23 sides and it's just so upsetting to hear him say the words "my life will be over if anyone finds out". I mean how can someone still feel like that in this day and age, basically because he's good at football. Because he believes his teammates will reject him, fans will harass him, and his football career will be over before it starts. And to be honest, I'll be surprised if he makes it when he is clearly so conflicted like this. Your head has to be completely focused on your career and you have to be happy and stable.
So, clearly something's gotta change, and so being open minded and accepting, fan by fan, is the first place to start.
The textual evidence of the existence of Jesus as a historical figure is very limited and certainly not definitive. I have no desire to derail this thread even further but there really is very little textual evidence at all and, that which there is, is not contemporaneous and not even close to conclusive.I am not religious and am not personally offended by you referring to the bible or the koran or anything else as “Fairytale” but I can recognise that it is very belittling and condescending as well as not accurate.
Condescending in that you are not just saying that you don’t believe in it, by calling it a “fairytale” you are insinuating that anyone that does believe in it is an idiot. This may be your opinion but is not really a valid argument
Not accurate in that there are various historical records outside of the bible that point to jesus existing and being punished by Pontius Pilatus.
So unless you are claiming that all these other none christian records were made up, the debate is was jesus the son of god or was he a preacher NOT is it a fairytale!
You're always going to get people like that at football games. They should be ignored. I'm sure female linos and refs get shit from fans, but they get on with it.Was at a local game last night in Belfast for the first time in years and there was a guy sitting behind us making homophobic slurs. The ref was wearing a pink kit and this idiot couldn't help himself to shout stuff like "Gay pride was last week, mate." etc. Homophobia wasn't his only speciality though, he managed to insult foreigners and women a well which was a bit awkward as my foreign missus was with me. Thankfully it was unreserved seating and we moved seats at half time but people like that leave a bad taste on what was otherwise a good night.
Sounds like a cross between Nigel Farage and Donald TrumpWas at a local game last night in Belfast for the first time in years and there was a guy sitting behind us making homophobic slurs. The ref was wearing a pink kit and this idiot couldn't help himself to shout stuff like "Gay pride was last week, mate." etc. Homophobia wasn't his only speciality though, he managed to insult foreigners and women a well which was a bit awkward as my foreign missus was with me. Thankfully it was unreserved seating and we moved seats at half time but people like that leave a bad taste on what was otherwise a good night.
You're always going to get people like that at football games. They should be ignored. I'm sure female linos and refs get shit from fans, but they get on with it.
Sounds like a cross between Nigel Farage and Donald Trump
Not quite sure what to say to these responses. Once again you are trying to give religion a free pass it does not deserve. It is subject to scrutiny just as any other view you can hold or any other institution or group you can join. To equate criticising religion to calling homosexuals disgusting is dishonest and quite frankly disgusting itself. If you degrade homosexuals, blacks or other people based on the way they were born you are a bigot. Quite simple. How is that in any way comparable to pointing out the absurdity of superstition and make-believe? I don't go around around calling people who are religious idiots. And freedom of religion is very important, everyone should be free to practise any faith they want. But if someone wants an honest discussion about the subject I will continue to label it nonsense, fairytales and potentially dangerous and back it up with arguments. If that is offensive to you, then it seems your own position is very weak. Being offended by criticism of what you stand for is an integral part of free speech.
I don't even enjoy discussing or bringing up religion all that much. Even in this thread I merely reponded to someone taking offense at the word fairytale which someone else used. So I don't know why you think in terms of attacking and defending @Tomuś. "to defend a view" is a synonym for arguing a position. It does not literally mean being on the defense.
Think that's a creeping problem in modern society:the growing intolerance towards any minority group,the feeling that they are to blame for all the problems in 'your' life.the fact that you can't come to terms with changing attitudes;Deeming it as PC gone mad. Men in particular( and a vocal minority of women) seem to think that they can return to the 'good ol days,' when insulting minority groups was ok as long as they accepted it( a euphemism for knowing your place) and laughed about it. We all got along as long as we knew who was in charge and accepted it.You're right. In this case there weren't even any female officials...he was "bantering" a female attending the game with him.
Pretty much.
You're always going to get people like that at football games. They should be ignored. I'm sure female linos and refs get shit from fans, but they get on with it.
Hello, I'm gay. Well actually gender fluid too. And I've been a reasonably committed United follower since 1994/95 (got taken to a 0-0 draw with Leeds United at Old Trafford as a 6 year old and was completely hooked from that point on!).
I have to say, I think it's great that people are finally talking about this issue - I've become a lot more comfortable with myself over the years and to be honest am quite happy being openly myself when playing football or going to watch a match (I'm from very near Old Trafford in Manchester though I live in London now for work so get back up when I can). And I do mostly play football with 'straight' guys - not had any issues myself.
However, I have actually chatted with a gay player who plays for one of the top u23 sides and it's just so upsetting to hear him say the words "my life will be over if anyone finds out". I mean how can someone still feel like that in this day and age, basically because he's good at football. Because he believes his teammates will reject him, fans will harass him, and his football career will be over before it starts. And to be honest, I'll be surprised if he makes it when he is clearly so conflicted like this. Your head has to be completely focused on your career and you have to be happy and stable.
So, clearly something's gotta change, and so being open minded and accepting, fan by fan, is the first place to start.
I agree with you, but you're always going to get guys at games doing it. The best way to eliminate it is to just ignore it. What better reaction to "hahaha Chelsea's right back is gay!!!!" then "so who cares?"They shouldn't have to 'get on with it'. They should be able to go to work and not get abused.
The best way to eliminate it is to ban the ones doing it from attending games.I agree with you, but you're always going to get guys at games doing it. The best way to eliminate it is to just ignore it. What better reaction to "hahaha Chelsea's right back is gay!!!!" then "so who cares?"
More:BBC said:Andy Brennan admits he was terrified before telling his team-mates he was gay.
"You build it in your head that everyone's going to react badly," he tells Radio 1 Newsbeat.
But since becoming Australia's only openly-gay male professional footballer he says everything has been "amazing".
The 26-year-old plays in Melbourne for Green Gully, who are in the Australian equivalent of the English Championship.
He made his announcement in May.
He says his team-mates weren't shocked - some were "surprised" - but everyone has been supportive.
"You live this double life where you've got a secret about yourself and you don't want people to find out.
"Then when you go to training you need to focus on your game… not on your sexuality. But it's hard not to think about it because the two are so intertwined.
"It's your life," he says.
Surprised to see Souness speaking sense on the issue.
Souness gets a lot of stick, some of it justified but on issues like this he is normally reasonable and quite progressive for his generation. I think I’m right in saying he was determined to sign catholic’s for Rangers and he stood up for Howard Gayle when Tommy Smith was giving him stick.
One of Souness's closest friends was Dale Winton, which probably is a factor to why he is clued up on the gay community.Souness gets a lot of stick, some of it justified but on issues like this he is normally reasonable and quite progressive for his generation. I think I’m right in saying he was determined to sign catholic’s for Rangers and he stood up for Howard Gayle when Tommy Smith was giving him stick.
feck off... Really? That's so funny. What an odd pair to put together as mates. Dale Winton and Sounness chilling together? Ha ha... Kinda sweet but so bizarre.One of Souness's closest friends was Dale Winton, which probably is a factor to why he is clued up on the gay community.
Surprised to see Souness speaking sense on the issue.
He was dale wintons best man when he got married so whilst there is many things Souness can be called out on thats not one of them
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-44228589
It’s not a big deal. It shouldn’t be a big deal. But that makes me warm to Sounness massively. Which is weird, when you think about it. Because being good friends with a gay man doesn’t magically prevent anyone from ever being a horrible person.
I think we will see more openly gay players and soon.
Society is just ready for it, there is no stigma anymore and honestly I don't think that 99% of people give one damn what folks do in their own time.
Any homophobic chants or comments from the crowds (when we have them again!) should equal a life time ban, with a fine and community service thrown in.
I wouldn't expect much opposition from clubs if the above or something similar was mandated league wide.
You should read the comments on the PL or United's facebook page during pride.
I think we will see more openly gay players and soon.
Society is just ready for it, there is no stigma anymore and honestly I don't think that 99% of people give one damn what folks do in their own time.
Any homophobic chants or comments from the crowds (when we have them again!) should equal a life time ban, with a fine and community service thrown in.
I wouldn't expect much opposition from clubs if the above or something similar was mandated league wide.
That United Facebook page was something else.You should read the comments on the PL or United's facebook page during pride.
Are they really such a problem when the Premier League is already supporting pride and using rainbow flags?Britain is ready for it and despite some inevitable incidents and the gutter press dog whistling reports of any gay players lifestyle, they would quickly bore of it and it will become normal.
More conservative (regressive) countries who represent serious financial partners for the FA and individual clubs are the main obstacle.
Are they really such a problem when the Premier League is already supporting pride and using rainbow flags?
I honestly don't think any sponsors would pull out unless players started kissing on the field