German Football 21/22 | Gladbach sign Farke

[Blackwidow]

The distribution in Germany:

https://www.fernsehgelder.de/

It is distributed in dependence of the performance. You all can talk about that the smaller clubs get less like this than the first clubs - but it rewards teams like Freiburg etc. that even with a small budget have outperformed others with much bigger budgets, too.

 

[do.ob]

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Has Hannover stopped being a toxic club all of the sudden?

 

[stefan92]

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Has Hannover stopped being a toxic club all of the sudden?

Nope. We are not yet safe from relegation and make our current manager a lame duck. Just wait two weeks before making this move ffs.

 

[ForEverEleven]

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Has Hannover stopped being a toxic club all of the sudden?

Strange downgrade move from Leitl. Wouldve thought he moved to Schalke if they manage to promote.

 

[hasanejaz88]

The distribution in Germany:

https://www.fernsehgelder.de/

It is distributed in dependence of the performance. You all can talk about that the smaller clubs get less like this than the first clubs - but it rewards teams like Freiburg etc. that even with a small budget have outperformed others with much bigger budgets, too.

But given that we are discussing if anything structural can change to prevent the dominance of Bayern occurring again, and we do have an issue of clubs at the top having a significantly higher percentage of revenue, it would be a good first step.

Obviously one thing to solve all of this is too abolish the 50+1, but that can create a host of other problems and is the anthesis of German football culture, so it should never be removed.

 

[Blackwidow]

But given that we are discussing if anything structural can change to prevent the dominance of Bayern occurring again, and we do have an issue of clubs at the top having a significantly higher percentage of revenue, it would be a good first step.

Obviously one thing to solve all of this is too abolish the 50+1, but that can create a host of other problems and is the anthesis of German football culture, so it should never be removed.

But where is the reward for others that perform better than equally financed clubs? This are small sums for Bayern but huge for e.g. Freiburg. I think that this system is fair. There should be a reward for better performance as this often does not result into a better marketability etc.

 

[do.ob]

But given that we are discussing if anything structural can change to prevent the dominance of Bayern occurring again, and we do have an issue of clubs at the top having a significantly higher percentage of revenue, it would be a good first step.

Obviously one thing to solve all of this is too abolish the 50+1, but that can create a host of other problems and is the anthesis of German football culture, so it should never be removed.

I see that logic brought up a lot, but how would taking money away from the top and redistributing it to the likes of Fürth make Bayern any less likely to win the league? If your aim is to stop Bayern's dominance then short term you want to give more money to Dortmund and mid to long term you probably want to distribute money more along the lines of popularity, so the failed big clubs have an easier time getting back to the top and the plastic club don't get solidarity funds to block real football clubs from getting into Europe.

Nope. We are not yet safe from relegation and make our current manager a lame duck. Just wait two weeks before making this move ffs.

To be fair: it was leaked and not announced, Hannover are basically saved already anyway and when there's competition you sometimes have to act quickly with your signings. For all we know Leitl's release clause is limited to April, too.

 

[kaiser1]

But given that we are discussing if anything structural can change to prevent the dominance of Bayern occurring again, and we do have an issue of clubs at the top having a significantly higher percentage of revenue, it would be a good first step.

Obviously one thing to solve all of this is too abolish the 50+1, but that can create a host of other problems and is the anthesis of German football culture, so it should never be removed.

I think the goal is to see if this is fair not just to punish Bayern, We can as well tell Bayern to start with a -10points just to stop the dominance. I believe If you are consistently doing well, you should be rewarded for it.
Anything short of abolishing 50+1 and hoping Oligarchs and nation states who will pump endless money without caring to take profits come into the league will not stop Bayerns dominance

 

[hasanejaz88]

But where is the reward for others that perform better than equally financed clubs? This are small sums for Bayern but huge for e.g. Freiburg. I think that this system is fair. There should be a reward for better performance as this often does not result into a better marketability etc.

In the EPL model 50% of domestic TV is equal while the other follows a rewards model, so it won't all be given equally but rather some of it will and others will be based on performances. Currently I don't think Germany has any model where a portion of the revenue if shared proportionally.

Under this model, the bottom team in the EPL earns more TV revenue than Bayern!

I think the goal is to see if this is fair not just to punish Bayern, We can as well tell Bayern to start with a -10points just to stop the dominance. I believe If you are consistently doing well, you should be rewarded for it.
Anything short of abolishing 50+1 and hoping Oligarchs and nation states who will pump endless money without caring to take profits come into the league will not stop Bayerns dominance

The goal isn't punish Bayern, there is a very clear disparity in earnings for the top clubs and a way to address it is through more equal distribution of TV rights rather than having everything performance based.

Even if it doesn't lead to Bayern losing the title, they're well capable of doing it themselves, atleast it will be more fair to the rest of the league.

I'm surprised a country like Germany that prides itself on having socialist policies would be so against a model that has more equatable distribution of revenue

 

[do.ob]

In the EPL model 50% of domestic TV is equal while the other follows a rewards model, so it won't all be given equally but rather some of it will and others will be based on performances. Currently I don't think Germany has any model where a portion of the revenue if shared proportionally.

Under this model, the bottom team in the EPL earns more TV revenue than Bayern!



The goal isn't punish Bayern, there is a very clear disparity in earnings for the top clubs and a way to address it is through more equal distribution of TV rights rather than having everything performance based.

Even if it doesn't lead to Bayern losing the title, they're well capable of doing it themselves, atleast it will be more fair to the rest of the league.

I'm surprised a country like Germany that prides itself on having socialist policies would be so against a model that has more equatable distribution of revenue

50% equal distribution, 43% performance related, the rest based on popularity and youth development.

https://www.sport.de/news/ne4269697...-neuordnung-bei-der-verteilung-der-tv-gelder/

 

[do.ob]

Things looking good for Bremen at half time, even though they just conceded a somewhat comical own goal.

 

[HTG]

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[do.ob]

Sandhausen are my favourite team.

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[do.ob]

feck Sandhausen, who needs them..

 

[stefan92]

Sandhausen are my favourite team.

feck Sandhausen, who needs them..

 

[do.ob]

I don't mind Schalke returning to Bundesliga.. But does it have to be immediately?

 

[do.ob]

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Lautern have sold nearly 50k tickets. In the third division. Against an u23 side.

 

[Blackwidow]

I don't mind Schalke returning to Bundesliga.. But does it have to be immediately?

Could actually be Schalke, Bremen and HSV - if St Pauli or Darmstadt do not jump into that.

Yesterday on a Friday 10,000 Schalkefans travelled to Sandhausen in 2nd league (350 km distance! and kickoff was 18:30!)

 

[Hansi Fick]

Why no Wanner in the squad?

 

[Blackwidow]

I just saw it on sofascore... Bochum already 2 up in Dortmund?

 

[uamini]

Crazy scenes in Bielefeld...Hertha is seemingly saved, misses a last-minute opportunity to make it 2:0 then concedes the equalizer a minute later while Stuttgart also scores against Wolfsburg.

So now we have this:

15 Hertha 33 (-32)
16 Stuttgart 29 (-19)
17 Bielefeld 27 (-25)

Hertha: Mainz (H), Dortmund (A)
Stuttgart: Bayern (A), Köln (H)
Bielefeld: Bochum (A), Leipzig (H)

I wonder if Leipzig's cup heroics will play a part. They could have the Europa League finals and the DFB cup finals just days after that Bielefeld match, so they might feel like resting a few players. Well they have to secure their CL spot first anyway.

 

[Kasper]

Hilarious matchday today

 

[do.ob]

Crazy scenes in Bielefeld...Hertha is seemingly saved, misses a last-minute opportunity to make it 2:0 then concedes the equalizer a minute later while Stuttgart also scores against Wolfsburg.

So now we have this:

15 Hertha 33 (-32)
16 Stuttgart 29 (-19)
17 Bielefeld 27 (-25)

Hertha: Mainz (H), Dortmund (A)
Stuttgart: Bayern (A), Köln (H)
Bielefeld: Bochum (A), Leipzig (H)

I wonder if Leipzig's cup heroics will play a part. They could have the Europa League finals and the DFB cup finals just days after that Bielefeld match, so they might feel like resting a few players. Well they have to secure their CL spot first anyway.

It may not be mathematically proven yet, but I think the Magathgician has already done his work. Stuttgart will lose in Munich, especially after Bayern go beaten by Mainz and Bielefeld aren't going to win two in a row either. Both of them will really struggle to produce even one win. Which is especially tragic in Stuttgart's case, since they were looking quite good just a month ago.



Also a classic tale of:

How it started:

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Lautern have sold nearly 50k tickets. In the third division. Against an u23 side.

How it's going:

 

[ForEverEleven]

Stuttgart will go into relegation and probably win there against anyone who they will face. Regardless who it is. They just have too much quality in the squad.
Otherwise, if they really go down there are very interesting players on the market (Kalajdzic, Sosa, Mangala, Endo, Mavropanos, Führich etc.)

 

[do.ob]

Stuttgart will go into relegation and probably win there against anyone who they will face. Regardless who it is. They just have too much quality in the squad.
Otherwise, if they really go down there are very interesting players on the market (Kalajdzic, Sosa, Mangala, Endo, Mavropanos, Führich etc.)

Stuttgart would surely be favourites in any relegation playoff, but if it's against Schalke/Bremen/Hamburg it's going to be two games with a massive atmosphere that will add a lot of pressure to an already tense fixture, not necessarily conditions where "we're better, we play our game and we win" applies. Nerves and luck will play a big role.

 

[stefan92]

Stuttgart will go into relegation and probably win there against anyone who they will face. Regardless who it is. They just have too much quality in the squad.
Otherwise, if they really go down there are very interesting players on the market (Kalajdzic, Sosa, Mangala, Endo, Mavropanos, Führich etc.)

Countless teams over the last years thought that they had too much quality and then got relegated. Quality alone doesn't save you from a downward spiral, even it might help of course.

 

[ForEverEleven]

Countless teams over the last years thought that they had too much quality and then got relegated. Quality alone doesn't save you from a downward spiral, even it might help of course.

At least in the relegation playoffs it is nowadays a rare occurance that the 2nd division club actually wins. Since 2009 only 3 out of 13 times (Union the most recent in 2019). Thats mostly down to squad quality in my opinion and illustrates the gap between the 1st and 2nd division.

 

[do.ob]

At least in the relegation playoffs it is nowadays a rare occurance that the 2nd division club actually wins. Since 2009 only 3 out of 13 times (Union the most recent in 2019). Thats mostly down to squad quality in my opinion and illustrates the gap between the 1st and 2nd division.

This year it could very well be a huge club on either side. I think that's different than the 2nd tier regulars, who usually make the playoff and then get a bit overwhelmed by the occasion. Werder, Hamburg, Schalke have had to perform under immense pressure all season.

 

[Blackwidow]

At least in the relegation playoffs it is nowadays a rare occurance that the 2nd division club actually wins. Since 2009 only 3 out of 13 times (Union the most recent in 2019). Thats mostly down to squad quality in my opinion and illustrates the gap between the 1st and 2nd division.

But usually there is a bigger gap between first and third in the second league. And if the 16th of the Bundesliga had some good matches before - and the third did not have its best run recently everything can happen.

Last year it was Kiel who has had big problems during the season due to Corona. Cologne won 10 points in their last 6 matches of that Bundesliga season.

19/20 it was Heidenheim playing against Bremen. Bremen had 9 points in their last 6 matches...

 

[FootballHQ]

You love to see it....Dortmund concedes 4 goals at home to a mid table team and barely anyone bothers to post about it.

Are they ever going to sign any decent defenders or a top notch DM? 10th worst defence in Bundesliga currently so if they don't replace Haaland effectively I think they'll be dropping to 4th next season. Guess Sule is the latest hope but not convinced.

 

[FootballHQ]

At least in the relegation playoffs it is nowadays a rare occurance that the 2nd division club actually wins. Since 2009 only 3 out of 13 times (Union the most recent in 2019). Thats mostly down to squad quality in my opinion and illustrates the gap between the 1st and 2nd division.

Away goals rule has certainly helped Bundesliga clubs in the past....pretty sure Hamburg twice and Bremen the other year stayed up getting a score draw away after only drawing first leg so that'd maybe a slight tweak that could balance things up a bit more.

 

[stefan92]

You love to see it....Dortmund concedes 4 goals at home to a mid table team and barely anyone bothers to post about it.

Are they ever going to sign any decent defenders or a top notch DM? 10th worst defence in Bundesliga currently so if they don't replace Haaland effectively I think they'll be dropping to 4th next season. Guess Sule is the latest hope but not convinced.

Bayern's match was even more disastreous and no one cares about that also. All four involved clubs (Bochum, Dortmund, Bayern, Mainz) have nothing to play for anymore this season, so no one cares.

Relegation and CL/EL/ECL qualification are much more interesting now.

 

[do.ob]

You love to see it....Dortmund concedes 4 goals at home to a mid table team and barely anyone bothers to post about it.

Are they ever going to sign any decent defenders or a top notch DM? 10th worst defence in Bundesliga currently so if they don't replace Haaland effectively I think they'll be dropping to 4th next season. Guess Sule is the latest hope but not convinced.

What's there to post about? The game was largely meaningless and neither the GK, nor the back four, nor the DM are supposed to be starting next season, or in most cases: even be at the club.

 

[FootballHQ]

What's there to post about? The game was largely meaningless and neither the GK, nor the back four, nor the DM are supposed to be starting next season, or in most cases: even be at the club.

People want to see Dortmund actually push Bayern properly one season perhaps? Or have better runs in europe again? Very unlikely next season given you'll have to find new attacking solutions post Haaland but I dunno the mediocre defensive structure just lets you down time and again. Not just these guys but Burki chucking them in past seasons or Hummels making an error and blaming everyone else in his post match interviews....

Think you're similar to Liverpool in 2016-17 period when they were a joy to watch in attack but had Karius in goal and Klavan and Lovren at the back so there were limitations. Of course you don't have the resources like Liverpool but there are still solutions out there.

Surely could've done more in europa given we could quite easily have an all German final. Leipzig conceded 17 less goals in Bundesliga and Frankfurt 6 so guess that's served them well in europe.

 

[do.ob]

People want to see Dortmund actually push Bayern properly one season perhaps? Or have better runs in europe again? Very unlikely next season given you'll have to find new attacking solutions post Haaland but I dunno the mediocre defensive structure just lets you down time and again. Not just these guys but Burki chucking them in past seasons or Hummels making an error and blaming everyone else in his post match interviews....

Think you're similar to Liverpool in 2016-17 period when they were a joy to watch in attack but had Karius in goal and Klavan and Lovren at the back so there were limitations. Of course you don't have the resources like Liverpool but there are still solutions out there.

Surely could've done more in europa given we could quite easily have an all German final. Leipzig conceded 17 less goals in Bundesliga and Frankfurt 6 so guess that's served them well in europe.

Your post ist kinda all over the place:
-what does yesterday's match have to do with challenging Bayern next season. Take a look at the players who were actually on the pitch and at the table. The home losses against Leverkusen or Leipzig would have been the moment to make such a point, but not a meaningless game with a clown lineup.
-Bürki was demoted 1.5 years ago, I don't know why you bring him up. Dortmund have signed Kobel last summer and he's been doing quite well this year, despite all the goals his team conceded.
-Haaland was terrific for about the first five games of the season and since then he's mostly been a burden.
-Dortmund haven't exactly been a joy to watch in attack this season, the squad isn't set up in a coherent way anymore and had way too many injury issues on top of that, however sweeping changes have already been announced, so you're kind of referring to stuff that has already been addressed, the question is more how well those new(old) ideas will work out

 

[do.ob]

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Freiburg have forbidden Leipzig to use their club logo/crest for merchandise (e.g. half and half scarves) around the upcoming cup final between the two teams.

 

[Fabian Keller]

Trying to wrap my head around Schlotterbeck (or however you spell it) sitting there - big smirk on his face - signing a Dortmund contract when he still has to play another month for Freiburg - and with 4th place and a CUP FINAL still to go. An incredible, historic season for Freiburg. Potentially the club's greatest ever.

From where I'm standing... the guy is a complete and utter snake.

What am I missing here?

EDIT: could they/he not wait until June to confirm this? Makes my blood boil. The Bundesliga in a nutshell. Worse than Leipzig losing their best player, manager and club captain (on a free!) to Bayern last summer.

 

[do.ob]

This Frankfurt lineup is something else.

Trying to wrap my head around Schlotterbeck (or however you spell it) sitting there - big smirk on his face - signing a Dortmund contract when he still has to play another month for Freiburg - and with 4th place and a CUP FINAL still to go. An incredible, historic season for Freiburg. Potentially the club's greatest ever.

From where I'm standing... the guy is a complete and utter snake.

What am I missing here?

EDIT: could they/he not wait until June to confirm this? Makes my blood boil. The Bundesliga in a nutshell. Worse than Leipzig losing their best player, manager and club captain (on a free!) to Bayern last summer.

Your logic is a bit off. Schlotterbeck didn't have a release clause, nor was his contract expiring. He was not in a position to unilaterally make the decision to sign for Dortmund. Him sitting there, signing that contract is only possible, because Freiburg gave their okay. Furthermore everyone already knew this was going to happen and I guarantee you it's no coincidence that news of Freiburg bringing back Ginter broke within hours of the Schlotterbeck announcement. They resolved the speculation and constant questions around Schlotterbecks future and took the sting out of his departure, by immediately leaking a historic transfer as his replacement.
Relatively speaking Dortmund are happy, Freiburg are happy and both sets of fans are happy. It's been handled well.

 

[stefan92]

This Frankfurt lineup is something else.

It's better than expected, at least for me. Considering that West Ham on Thursday is important, while this is totally meaningless, I wouldn't have been surprised by an even weaker lineup.

 

[do.ob]

It's better than expected, at least for me. Considering that West Ham on Thursday is important, while this is totally meaningless, I wouldn't have been surprised by an even weaker lineup.

For some reason they left Kostic of all players in the team, but other than him and Jakic it's basically all rotation players in midfield and attack.

Anyway.. Leipzig managed to concede to Gladbach and suddenly their top four finish is in grave danger again:

Freiburg and Leverkusen face each other on final match day, so we might get a situation where Leverkusen are already qualified and could screw over their brothers.