German Football 22/23 | 2. Bundesliga returns | Hamburg vs Schalke 20:30 |

Constantin Ecker wrote a piece on Dortmund's mid-season turnaround and one interesting point is:
"Terzic himself possesses a more laid-back personality. He usually lets his assistants conduct training sessions, asks a player to give the motivational pregame speech and rarely dresses his team down after defeats. The role of the hard-nosed commander-in-chief has been assumed by Watzke, who, on multiple occasions, went into the dressing room after poor performances and addressed the team with very blunt statements. "What you call quality is only talent," he once told the team, encouraging them to do more with their skills. "

"The fact that Watzke gave emphatic post-game speeches while Terzic was in the room reveals how the 40-year-old coach is still a work in progress. He has compiled a 40-page dossier with notes about other coaches, writing over time what accomplished figures such as Pep Guardiola said in certain instances in the past, how they addressed the media or spoke about players. On occasion, Terzic has reiterated these statements, which emphasises how he has yet to find his own identity as a coach. "

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/37669530/how-dortmund-become-true-title-contenders-2023

Sounds like quite an unusual arrangement and in this particular case I always assumed that the talking was actually one of Terzic's strong suits, since he usually finds the right words in interviews.
 
I always assumed that the talking was actually one of Terzic's strong suits, since he usually finds the right words in interviews.
Maybe he is better talking 1v1 than talking to large groups? That's a bit my impression of him.
 
My bookie has Borussia at 1.27 to win with Mainz. Draw or lose at 4.10. Tempting

1.27 seems quite good. Famous last words and all, but Dortmund's home record is 14-1-1 this season 15:2 goals in their last three games and Mainz have absolutely nothing to play for and have lost form since beating Bayern. Chances of them getting something have to be like 10% or lower. The time for Dortmund to mess up was today, but they took that hurdle and knowing that they did should help them a bit with nerves against Mainz as well.

Maybe he is better talking 1v1 than talking to large groups? That's a bit my impression of him.

It's possible I suppose. I find it hard to really say how good Terzic is or isn't in general. Like the first time around he started quite badly and then they just vibed and overperformed their way to the finish line. What the real level is no one really knows.
 
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They'll be incredibly nervous against Mainz and probably concede first. But they have to go on and win it now
 
It's possible I suppose. I find it hard to really say how good Terzic is or isn't in general. Like the first time around he started quite badly and then they just vibed and overperformed their way to the finish line. What the real level is no one really knows.
True. It feels a lot like Terzic is excellent at making teams overperform. It should be more sustainable to raise a teams true level though.
 
Cannot believe how shit the level of quality from some of these teams is.
Neverkusen just conceded their second goal in the 90th min thanks to another clown mistake :wenger:
 
Cannot believe how shit the level of quality from some of these teams is.
Neverkusen just conceded their second goal in the 90th min thanks to another clown mistake :wenger:

They do stuff like that regardless of quality. It's their niche.
 
Dortmund better win on Saturday. It's now or never and the Bundesliga desperately needs another champion.
 
First of all congrats to the title! It's fine and dusted

Constantin Ecker wrote a piece on Dortmund's mid-season turnaround and one interesting point is:

It's not Dortmund that turned around their season, it's Bayern that did. Unfortunately in the wrong direction.

Something severe most have happened answer the WC. The team isn't the same as in the first half of season.
Being an outsider I have no idea what went wrong but I'm sure it's what cost Nagelsmann his job too.
 
It's not Dortmund that turned around their season, it's Bayern that did. Unfortunately in the wrong direction.

It is both... BVB had 25 points after game week 15 (that's 1.6/game or 56 at season end)... Since then, they've earned 45 pts in 18. That's 2.5 per game or 85 for a season (The equivalent of 95 in 20 teams league.)... If they hadn't turned it around, you could scr** all you want, and you'd still win it the way PSG is winning its league right now.
 
So it turns out the DFB assigned a ref from Hemer to the Augsburg:Dortmund game. And while the critical call was correct in my opinion the way they referees seemed to arrive there still raised some eyebrows.

To all of you with US-tier geography skills:

They had the entirety of Germany to pick from and they chose this:
HJ6Qmzv.png


https://www.kicker.de/augsburg-hinterfragt-var-ansetzung-dfb-bezieht-stellung-952710/artikel#twfeed

Why? I wouldn't necessarily say that this makes it impossible to be impartial, but if you're from that god forsaken stretch of land and are into football there's like a 90% chance you're either supporting Dortmund or Schalke. Why do they open themselves and the ref up to these narratives if they could just pick dozens of other refs?
 
Thank you! Institutional investors are actually preferable to retail investors, since you can at least talk to them and adjust modalities if necessary.
@uamini this seems to be happening now. Increased term by two years for an adjusted (read: higher) coupon. Fingers crossed for you guys!
 
Something severe most have happened answer the WC. The team isn't the same as in the first half of season.
Being an outsider I have no idea what went wrong but I'm sure it's what cost Nagelsmann his job too.

Yes, some things piled up. Some reporters lately told that there were more things that happened - they just did not tell.

But - the patterns you see were already there all season even in the first half of the season. Even in that winning streak the only reason why things worked was that in all of the matches there have been fast goals in the first half to have a 2:0 lead. The early leads and that the players were in good conversion mode only masked the problems in that period. There was no leading goal after minute 60 until the Hertha match when Tuchel tried to slow down the first half and substituted Leroy and Müller in after 60 minutes. Atleast there must have a period in that first half of the season in which there usually was too much speed in the first half so it did not last for the second half and not a real method to work without energy or with less energy.
 
DFL fails to reach a two-thirds majority in a vote to allow outside investors to buy its media rights.

Watzke the wanker salty as feck, you love to see it.
 
DFL fails to reach a two-thirds majority in a vote to allow outside investors to buy its media rights.

Watzke the wanker salty as feck, you love to see it.

It's not like Watzke was the only one advocating for this move, infact it was a majority of clubs.
It's also not like Watzke has reason to be particularly desperate to get quick money for his club. In general he seems to try and find compromise between (more) revenue and fan interests.

Getting a partner to increase capital and help with broadcasting revenues wasn't a terrible idea per se either. Though there was definitely too little communication of any specifics for such a big decision.
 
What’s the argument of the clubs (I’m guessing the lower division?) that voted against this partnership? And don’t they stand to lose money when they end up having to sell their Tv rights separately from BL?
 
What’s the argument of the clubs (I’m guessing the lower division?) that voted against this partnership? And don’t they stand to lose money when they end up having to sell their Tv rights separately from BL?
Most importantly that the money would be distributed in the same relation as current TV money. Many clubs see the current model as not helping the competitiveness of the league and therefore oppose that.
 
What’s the argument of the clubs (I’m guessing the lower division?) that voted against this partnership? And don’t they stand to lose money when they end up having to sell their Tv rights separately from BL?

The idea was to sell 12.5% of the operation for 20 years to a private partner. They hoped to raise €2bn and they apparently planned to spend €750m on digital initiatives (streaming platform), distribute €300m among clubs to spend freely and the remaining money as well, but with the condition that they would have had to spend it on infrastructure.

Today there was a vote, where DFL asked for 2/3rds of the vote to confirm their mandate to further explore this idea, that would have meant 24 votes, but the count was 20 to 11 in favour, with 5 clubs abstaining.

That's all that happened today.

The topic of collective TV deals came up, because Watzke more or less said that this was their (as in big clubs) attempt to approach the upcoming challenges with solidarity and with that being struck down (small) clubs shouldn't necessarily expect a lot of it in the near future.

So naturally, especially since a new TV deal is due in 2025, which means negotiations are about to being for that, people took that as a thinly veiled thread of big clubs going their own way on broadcasting or at least throwing around their weight.



I think the idea of solidarity was always a bit absurd as long as plastic clubs are in the league. But that doesn't necessarily mean that real football clubs should have to suffer, because they are small.
 
It's not like Watzke was the only one advocating for this move, infact it was a majority of clubs.
It's also not like Watzke has reason to be particularly desperate to get quick money for his club. In general he seems to try and find compromise between (more) revenue and fan interests.

Getting a partner to increase capital and help with broadcasting revenues wasn't a terrible idea per se either. Though there was definitely too little communication of any specifics for such a big decision.
His press conference afterwards was as telling as it gets in terms of what to think of the deal. Blatant threads "no one should ask for solidarity for the forseeable future", "Bayern and Dortmund made the biggest compromises", get fecked.

He's a reactionary turbo-capitalist scum of the same ilk as Hoeneß and the other Bayern clowns you normally like to shit on. Seeing him fuming was the most entertaining stuff I've seen in days.
 
The idea was to sell 12.5% of the operation for 20 years to a private partner. They hoped to raise €2bn and they apparently planned to spend €750m on digital initiatives (streaming platform), distribute €300m among clubs to spend freely and the remaining money as well, but with the condition that they would have had to spend it on infrastructure.

Today there was a vote, where DFL asked for 2/3rds of the vote to confirm their mandate to further explore this idea, that would have meant 24 votes, but the count was 20 to 11 in favour, with 5 clubs abstaining.

That's all that happened today.

The topic of collective TV deals came up, because Watzke more or less said that this was their (as in big clubs) attempt to approach the upcoming challenges with solidarity and with that being struck down (small) clubs shouldn't necessarily expect a lot of it in the near future.

So naturally, especially since a new TV deal is due in 2025, which means negotiations are about to being for that, people took that as a thinly veiled thread of big clubs going their own way on broadcasting or at least throwing around their weight.



I think the idea of solidarity was always a bit absurd as long as plastic clubs are in the league. But that doesn't necessarily mean that real football clubs should have to suffer, because they are small.

The digitization stuff actually sounds pretty good. German football has been lacking behind in that regard for far too long. I remember when you could barely find a Götze highlight video om YouTube due to copyright infringements whereas Neymar was omnipresent in social media. The Bundesliga has been far too conservative on that front for far too long and it obviously causes completely unnecessary opportunity costs.
 
Since Bayern and Dortmund have repeatedly shown this season that they don't want the title, my prediction for the final day is as follows. Dortmund can't win against Mainz despite having a record-breaking amount of attempts at goal and end up drawing 1-1, but Bayern will be unable to capitalize on Dortmund stumbling because they will lose 2-3 in Cologne, after leading 2-0 at half-time. That would be the only ending fitting for this weird season.
 
Since Bayern and Dortmund have repeatedly shown this season that they don't want the title, my prediction for the final day is as follows. Dortmund can't win against Mainz 1-1, but Bayern will be unable to capitalize on Dortmund stumbling because they will lose 2-3 in Cologne, after leading 2-0 at half-time. That would be the only ending fitting for this weird season.
It has really been a lot of shit football this season, hasn't it?
 
His press conference afterwards was as telling as it gets in terms of what to think of the deal. Blatant threads "no one should ask for solidarity for the forseeable future", "Bayern and Dortmund made the biggest compromises", get fecked.

He's a reactionary turbo-capitalist scum of the same ilk as Hoeneß and the other Bayern clowns you normally like to shit on. Seeing him fuming was the most entertaining stuff I've seen in days.

Watzke is trying to increase revenue, that's his job and sometimes he oversteps. But when he does he also listens. And I think that's a difference to the likes of Hoeneß, an example to highlight this would be partnerships with oil states, around the same time that Bayern started their's with Qatar, Dortmund also had a pre season camp in Dubai. Dortmund never returned, Bayern doubled down and made attempts to silence some of their own fans.
Another example would be the promise to limit ticket price hikes to the rate of inflation, long before it went to current levels and while interest in the club was booming.

You make it sound like this was Watzke's baby, but as far as I'm aware he came on after the process had already started and a 20:11 vote in favor also shows that this wasn't a solo adventure of the big 2 either.

It seems like there are forces pulling into different directions within the 36. At least according to the DFL they made an attempt to find a compromise. That attempt was slapped down before it even came to a binding vote. Alternative ideas apparently haven't been brought forward either? So what's the logical consequence? If there's no basis to work together parties will have to work for themselves. It wasn't very sensible of Watzke to formulate this so bluntly, but it is indeed the consequence of this vote.
 
It's not like Watzke was the only one advocating for this move, infact it was a majority of clubs.
It's also not like Watzke has reason to be particularly desperate to get quick money for his club. In general he seems to try and find compromise between (more) revenue and fan interests.

Getting a partner to increase capital and help with broadcasting revenues wasn't a terrible idea per se either. Though there was definitely too little communication of any specifics for such a big decision.
kudos for your loyalty to the club and stuff, but that press conference was a trainwreck, and an embarrassing one. And i would says so if one of our guys had done the same thing :D
 
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kudos for your loyalty to the club and stuff, but that press conference was a trainwreck, and an embarrassing one. And i would says so if one of our guys had done the same thing :D

It was a bad presser, the officials involved were disappointed and/or angry and let it show, which isn't going to do them any favours with the public. In general communication was quite bad for this whole project and because of that I'm not sure if it even would have been a good idea. But I don't see the issue with the actual arguments.

What I object to though is making this about Watzke or Dortmund and Bayern, when it was Hellmann running it and there were 20 votes in support.
And "get fecked"? Who will get fecked, the guy who is at a top position at the DFB, DFL and Dortmund? The second biggest club in the country? Or will it maybe be the clubs that survive on money shared by the clubs that bring in the money.
I don't expect everyone to go their own way, but I could see Bundesliga leaving the second division to fend for themselves if they get the feeling that they are too much of a roadblock for innovation. Let's see if the same people will be having a laugh then.
 
So Niclas Füllkrug is on the verge of becoming this season's top goal scorer with the lowest total ever, a mere 16 goals. No other player has scored more than 14 times.

Looking at Dortund's stats is even more unique, not a single player has managed to score 10 times.

3BdIsBp.jpeg


Yet at the same time the Bundesliga is still the most goal-hungry top league around with 3.18 goals per match (PL: 2.84, Ligue 1: 2.80, Serie A: 2.53, La Liga: 2.51).

Losing both Lewandowski and Haaland at the same time definitely plays a part but as we can see the goals are still being scored at a similar rate.

Any thought on what we are witnessing?

The World Cup would be an obvious culprit, but since we're not seeing this effect in other leagues it's probably not the reason.

Have teams focused too much on squad depth which would then hurt them in European competititons?

You could always blame this on the lack of quality German strikers or a certain play style that is less focused on one scorer but that wouldn't explain this sudden change.
 
Bayern decided they don't need a striker, Haller was out for half a season and still isn't fully fit. Otherwise we would probably have 2 20+ goal strikers. It's just a random anomaly.
 
Bayern decided they don't need a striker, Haller was out for half a season and still isn't fully fit. Otherwise we would probably have 2 20+ goal strikers. It's just a random anomaly.
But it's not only those two. Usually other teams also had strikers on impressive runs getting 20+ goals, those also didn't replicate that. Players like Andre Silva for Frankfurt for example.

So I do feel that we indeed see a lot of teams not relying as much on one true striker to score goals as they did a few seasons ago.
 
But it's not only those two. Usually other teams also had strikers on impressive runs getting 20+ goals, those also didn't replicate that. Players like Andre Silva for Frankfurt for example.

So I do feel that we indeed see a lot of teams not relying as much on one true striker to score goals as they did a few seasons ago.

That's because they don't have them, not because they don't want one and definitely not, because they don't need one. Below Bayern and Dortmund most teams are low(ish) scoring and more on the counter attacking side. At a glance it seems like it's actually the lower half that's keeping up the average.
 
So Niclas Füllkrug is on the verge of becoming this season's top goal scorer with the lowest total ever, a mere 16 goals. No other player has scored more than 14 times.

Looking at Dortund's stats is even more unique, not a single player has managed to score 10 times.

3BdIsBp.jpeg


Yet at the same time the Bundesliga is still the most goal-hungry top league around with 3.18 goals per match (PL: 2.84, Ligue 1: 2.80, Serie A: 2.53, La Liga: 2.51).

Losing both Lewandowski and Haaland at the same time definitely plays a part but as we can see the goals are still being scored at a similar rate.

Any thought on what we are witnessing?

The World Cup would be an obvious culprit, but since we're not seeing this effect in other leagues it's probably not the reason.

Have teams focused too much on squad depth which would then hurt them in European competititons?

You could always blame this on the lack of quality German strikers or a certain play style that is less focused on one scorer but that wouldn't explain this sudden change.
For what it's worth, the Eredivisie will also likely see its top scorer finish with a very low number of goals. I haven't dug any deeper, but there was an article on it in my newspaper last week that I could dig up this evening.
 
That's because they don't have them, not because they don't want one and definitely not, because they don't need one. Below Bayern and Dortmund most teams are low(ish) scoring and more on the counter attacking side. At a glance it seems like it's actually the lower half that's keeping up the average.
Right, I also don't think it is a deliberate decision, but the anomaly just isn't limited to those two teams.
 


Here we see one of the Bundesliga broadcasters randomly starting a Twitter fight with Bayern fans. They aren't even showing Saturday's games, right?
 


Here we see one of the Bundesliga broadcasters randomly starting a Twitter fight with Bayern fans. They aren't even showing Saturday's games, right?

Bad PR agencies doing bad PR stuff :lol:
 
I'll gladly take their price increases as long as they keep winding up Bayern fans this way