Germany - Euro 2021 discussion

[do.ob]

TBF, 3 at back is already like adding a sole defensive player to cover for the midfield. It's more of the issue of the whole team. Lack of dynamism, energy in most positions of the team. The players that are supposed to cover for others, have their own issues.

It doesn't work though if your midfield(er) lets the opposition run at your back line and pick passes behind it, you're bound to run into trouble if you're generous like that. Not to mention that the back three have issues of their own, between Rüdiger constantly breaking formation, without producing ball recoveries to show for it, Hummels' lack of pace and Ginter not being a top tier CB either, as well as wing backs who have to push up all the way up the pitch, to try and make up for the fact that, despite playing two CMs who don't really have to defend, the middle doesn't really produce chances, infact against Hungary it was probably the CBs who played the most decisive passes behind the opponent's back line.

 

[largelyworried]

I think this Germany team is beatable for England. Gnabry doesn't look on song this tournament, Sane has looked poor when he's come on, Havertz has been pretty unremarkable. I love Muller but he needs things happening around him to connect with, he's not getting it. They have good players but don't really have that lethal attacker that makes you worry when you see them on the ball. And with Gundogan, Kroos and Hummels knocking around in central areas, they're not exactly a high speed outfit.

I think its very likely England will play conservative, try and keep Germany at arms length, knowing that they have enough attacking talent to take their chances when they come along.

 

[Zehner]

Yea mate, but that press resistance man. Any comment on that? Seriously you're the only person I've met who defends Low and has the most annoying arguments of playing Kroos with Gundogan. I hate you right now

But I don't defend Löw. I think people criticize him over the top because they're sick of him and I would also have loved if he resigned after 2018. I'm just trying to provide perspective. Also, I don't think the midfield is good by any means. I think the system is unsuited for our CMs since Goretzka and Gündogan both have their strengthes when going forward and pushing into the box. That's incredibly valuable in the modern game to break down defenses but if you play with two CMs, they have to hold their position. See, generally the 3-4-3 is a very interesting formation but everytime I've seen it being utilized very well, the team played somebody who's very good at distributing the ball and one who's great at shielding the defense and still a very secure passer. E. g. Jorginho and Kanté, Witsel and Delaney or on a smaller scale Aranguiz and Baumgartlinger for Leverkusen. But we don't have a "horizontal" DM to complement Kroos so it would be better to ditch the 3-4-3 completely.

I was hoping from the very beginning that Löw would mirror Pep's current system. Kroos (Rodri) as a 6 behind Goretzka (de Bruyne) and Gündogan (himself) with Kimmich (Cancelo) as an inverted RB that pushes inside, freeing Goretzka and Gündogan to push forward. Add to that a player who likes the touch line like Sané on the right side to provide width. Maybe even play Can on the left so that Kroos is assisted by two players with energy in Can and Kimmich.

But I still don't get how the midfield is the first thing that's being criticized after yesterday. What I think was much more frustrating was our attacking approach. All the crosses and high passes.. that really grinded my gears. Or Ginter who looked bad for both goals. Hummels also showed a very bad performance. I don't get why we suddenly try to play this style when our best players are suited to a style centered around short passing.

 

[the_answer]

I think its very likely England will play conservative, try and keep Germany at arms length, knowing that they have enough attacking talent to take their chances when they come along.

Germany conceded 5 goals in 3 games (if France were more determined could make it 7 goals against in 3 games.)
England conceded 0 goals in 3 games.
xG tells the same story.

England has to hit the German defence.

 

[GhastlyHun]

We also scored 6, 4 of which against the team actually trying to play and create chances.

 

[FootballHQ]

Unless something truly bonkers happens in the next few weeks, Hungary will walk away with the “exceeding William Jansens expectations”-award. They played four and a half hours of football in the group of death. They played the reigning world champions, the reigning European champions and Germany in Germany. And for those four and a half hours, there were a mere 10 minutes, when they weren’t in the fight.

Well done, Magyars! I look forward to following you more closely in the years to come.

Yep a much weaker group and they've have got through with that level, such great heart. England actually got them away in World cup qualifier in September so that will be very tricky the way they defend and 60k.

Was a great watch last night although always felt inevitable Germany would score at some point.

Germany can still beat England but would probably mean a complete rejig of what they've been doing e.g. someone mobile at RB (Rudiger?), then move Kimmich into midfield with Goretzka also starting and a front 3 of Gnarby, Muller and even Werner would likely cause England all sort of issues with their movement, we've seen it many times before.

Teams have hurt Germany by moving the ball quickly out wide from central base and that's been a real weaknesss for England so far so I still see this as 50/50 sort of match.

Winner has huge chance to get to the final.

 

[Zehner]

Germany conceded 5 goals in 3 games (if France were more determined could make it 7 goals against in 3 games.)
England conceded 0 goals in 3 games.
xG tells the same story.

England has to hit the German defence.

Yet our defense lookes weakest when the opponent doesn't try to attack.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Germany conceded 5 goals in 3 games (if France were more determined could make it 7 goals against in 3 games.)
England conceded 0 goals in 3 games.
xG tells the same story.

England has to hit the German defence.

If we attack them strongly we will likely concede a lot of chances. It all depends on how Southgate wants to approach it, does he want to win 1-0 or 4-3. I think we all know the answer. Obviously both teams attacking would lead to a better game, but Southgate has never cared about playing entertaining football. He’ll want to keep it tight. Expect the bus to be parked & Sterling & Saka to be used as counter attack outlets.

 

[do.ob]

But I still don't get how the midfield is the first thing that's being criticized after yesterday. What I think was much more frustrating was our attacking approach. All the crosses and high passes.. that really grinded my gears. Or Ginter who looked bad for both goals. Hummels also showed a very bad performance. I don't get why we suddenly try to play this style when our best players are suited to a style centered around short passing.

Right. Hummels, who was Germany's best defender and over 90 minutes also the most threatening player in attack had a very bad performance. Kroos, who didn't feel like closing down the assist should get (yet another) pass.

 

[Zehner]

Yes, he had. Kroos should've put more pressure on the crosser but Szalai was marked by two CBs, there should be no way he gets at the end of such a lazy cross from the half room. We played many of such crosses without any threat. Hummels also had a similar play to Ginter before the 1-2 where he takes himself out of the game completely. He was lucky Sané was tracking back in full sprint so that Hungary quickly lost the numerical superiority in that situation. Moreover he played so many premature high balls behind the line.. So yeah, it was a bad game. But I'm sure Hummels can take it.

 

[do.ob]

Yes, he had. Kroos should've put more pressure on the crosser but Szalai was marked by two CBs, there should be no way he gets at the end of such a lazy cross from the half room. We played many of such crosses without any threat. Hummels also had a similar play to Ginter before the 1-2 where he takes himself out of the game completely. He was lucky Sané was tracking back in full sprint so that Hungary quickly lost the numerical superiority in that situation. Moreover he played so many premature high balls behind the line.. So yeah, it was a bad game. But I'm sure Hummels can take it.

By "he played so many premature high balls behind the line.." you mean completing 111 out of 117 passes? Actually setting up the only properly created chance of the game with his long ball to Kimmich?

By "similar play to Ginter" you mean winning an aerial duel against Szalai? You know what actually happened before the 2:1? Kimmich goes after a ball he shouldn't have attempted to get, which leaves Szalai blank, which in turn prompts Ginter to step out of formation, which he mistimes as well, which causes Neuer to panic and Hungary get their goal. All these situations where the defense loses its composure and mistakes happen, because players scramble to plug holes. You know what they have in common? Toni "should play as #6" Kroos, standing in place, watching.

 

[croadyman]

By "he played so many premature high balls behind the line.." you mean completing 111 out of 117 passes? Actually setting up the only properly created chance of the game with his long ball to Kimmich?

By "similar play to Ginter" you mean winning an aerial duel against Szalai? You know what actually happened before the 2:1? Kimmich goes after a ball he shouldn't have attempted to get, which leaves Szalai blank, which in turn prompts Ginter to step out of formation, which he mistimes as well, which causes Neuer to panic and Hungary get their goal. All these situations where the defense loses its composure and mistakes happen, because players scramble to plug holes. You know what they have in common? Toni "should play as #6" Kroos, standing in place, watching.

Still make you guys favourites despite what our daft bookies are saying because of what happened in 70, 90, 96 & 10 and the trouble is we as a football nation are properly scarred by those defeats especially when we played well in a couple

 

[Zehner]

By "he played so many premature high balls behind the line.." you mean completing 111 out of 117 passes? Actually setting up the only properly created chance of the game with his long ball to Kimmich?

By "similar play to Ginter" you mean winning an aerial duel against Szalai? You know what actually happened before the 2:1? Kimmich goes after a ball he shouldn't have attempted to get, which leaves Szalai blank, which in turn prompts Ginter to step out of formation, which he mistimes as well, which causes Neuer to panic and Hungary get their goal. All these situations where the defense loses its composure and mistakes happen, because players scramble to plug holes. You know what they have in common? Toni "should play as #6" Kroos, standing in place, watching.

I'm sorry but you're head over heals in a confirmation bias. There's no second player on the planet who's observed so critically as Kroos is observed by you. If somebody makes a mistake, you're looking for ways to blame it on Kroos but when Kroos makes a mistake, you look no further and straightly go straightly to the conclusion. You knew what you will be thinking in advance and now you're only looking for evidence for your already made opinion, ignoring everything contrary to it.

Against Hungary our primary issue was again that we couldn't convert dominance into chances. If we can't overload the wing after a quick shift of play with our wing backs, we're totally void of ideas or attacking patterns. Then we just whip in cross after cross or play high balls behind the line, hoping that something works out well, and Hummels happily partook in that - and that's a shame given that he still has one of the best build up games in the world. There's simply not enough subtletly in our attack. If the other team builds a wall, we go in head first and hope we break through. And that is gifting the opponent far too many easy possession wins and thus possibilities to counter. That's a shame, especially considering all the highly gifted players in the team that are very apt at breaking down cynical defenses like Hungary. If we have to take out Kroos for that and play a three man midfield with Gündogan and Goretzka as 8s, so be it. But blaming him while we are displaying such an uninspired shit show in the attack is just nonsense.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

But I don't defend Löw. I think people criticize him over the top because they're sick of him and I would also have loved if he resigned after 2018. I'm just trying to provide perspective. Also, I don't think the midfield is good by any means. I think the system is unsuited for our CMs since Goretzka and Gündogan both have their strengthes when going forward and pushing into the box. That's incredibly valuable in the modern game to break down defenses but if you play with two CMs, they have to hold their position. See, generally the 3-4-3 is a very interesting formation but everytime I've seen it being utilized very well, the team played somebody who's very good at distributing the ball and one who's great at shielding the defense and still a very secure passer. E. g. Jorginho and Kanté, Witsel and Delaney or on a smaller scale Aranguiz and Baumgartlinger for Leverkusen. But we don't have a "horizontal" DM to complement Kroos so it would be better to ditch the 3-4-3 completely.

I was hoping from the very beginning that Löw would mirror Pep's current system. Kroos (Rodri) as a 6 behind Goretzka (de Bruyne) and Gündogan (himself) with Kimmich (Cancelo) as an inverted RB that pushes inside, freeing Goretzka and Gündogan to push forward. Add to that a player who likes the touch line like Sané on the right side to provide width. Maybe even play Can on the left so that Kroos is assisted by two players with energy in Can and Kimmich.

But I still don't get how the midfield is the first thing that's being criticized after yesterday. What I think was much more frustrating was our attacking approach. All the crosses and high passes.. that really grinded my gears. Or Ginter who looked bad for both goals. Hummels also showed a very bad performance. I don't get why we suddenly try to play this style when our best players are suited to a style centered around short passing.

It could potentially work and I think it’s systematically better than they are currently trying. Goretzka is no De Bruyne though.

 

[TwoSheds]

But I don't defend Löw. I think people criticize him over the top because they're sick of him and I would also have loved if he resigned after 2018. I'm just trying to provide perspective. Also, I don't think the midfield is good by any means. I think the system is unsuited for our CMs since Goretzka and Gündogan both have their strengthes when going forward and pushing into the box. That's incredibly valuable in the modern game to break down defenses but if you play with two CMs, they have to hold their position. See, generally the 3-4-3 is a very interesting formation but everytime I've seen it being utilized very well, the team played somebody who's very good at distributing the ball and one who's great at shielding the defense and still a very secure passer. E. g. Jorginho and Kanté, Witsel and Delaney or on a smaller scale Aranguiz and Baumgartlinger for Leverkusen. But we don't have a "horizontal" DM to complement Kroos so it would be better to ditch the 3-4-3 completely.

I was hoping from the very beginning that Löw would mirror Pep's current system. Kroos (Rodri) as a 6 behind Goretzka (de Bruyne) and Gündogan (himself) with Kimmich (Cancelo) as an inverted RB that pushes inside, freeing Goretzka and Gündogan to push forward. Add to that a player who likes the touch line like Sané on the right side to provide width. Maybe even play Can on the left so that Kroos is assisted by two players with energy in Can and Kimmich.

But I still don't get how the midfield is the first thing that's being criticized after yesterday. What I think was much more frustrating was our attacking approach. All the crosses and high passes.. that really grinded my gears. Or Ginter who looked bad for both goals. Hummels also showed a very bad performance. I don't get why we suddenly try to play this style when our best players are suited to a style centered around short passing.

Can? Energy? You actually want Can to play LB / LWB? In a real competitive match for Germany?

 

[the_answer]

Chris Kramer (from RB Leipzig) (who is a surprisingly good pundit with great tactical analysis, not too over the top. Not just saying "they have to play harder") said it right 2x: "Germany lacks verticality. All German strikers enjoy the space between the lines. If denied... German team does not know how to play."

England has to deny any room between midfield and defence.

Yet our defense lookes weakest when the opponent doesn't try to attack.

You are right! German defence looked horrible playing against transition. Guess this is where England has to hit us. Maybe likes of Rashford, Saka, DCL could start.

If we attack them strongly we will likely concede a lot of chances. It all depends on how Southgate wants to approach it, does he want to win 1-0 or 4-3. I think we all know the answer. Obviously both teams attacking would lead to a better game, but Southgate has never cared about playing entertaining football. He’ll want to keep it tight. Expect the bus to be parked & Sterling & Saka to be used as counter attack outlets.

I swallow my words. tbh, looking back at how France won against Germany, this might be a good setup.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

I assume we won’t be having any German fans at Wembley given Merkel’s stance.

 

[arthurka]

But I don't defend Löw. I think people criticize him over the top because they're sick of him and I would also have loved if he resigned after 2018. I'm just trying to provide perspective. Also, I don't think the midfield is good by any means. I think the system is unsuited for our CMs since Goretzka and Gündogan both have their strengthes when going forward and pushing into the box. That's incredibly valuable in the modern game to break down defenses but if you play with two CMs, they have to hold their position. See, generally the 3-4-3 is a very interesting formation but everytime I've seen it being utilized very well, the team played somebody who's very good at distributing the ball and one who's great at shielding the defense and still a very secure passer. E. g. Jorginho and Kanté, Witsel and Delaney or on a smaller scale Aranguiz and Baumgartlinger for Leverkusen. But we don't have a "horizontal" DM to complement Kroos so it would be better to ditch the 3-4-3 completely.

I was hoping from the very beginning that Löw would mirror Pep's current system. Kroos (Rodri) as a 6 behind Goretzka (de Bruyne) and Gündogan (himself) with Kimmich (Cancelo) as an inverted RB that pushes inside, freeing Goretzka and Gündogan to push forward. Add to that a player who likes the touch line like Sané on the right side to provide width. Maybe even play Can on the left so that Kroos is assisted by two players with energy in Can and Kimmich.

But I still don't get how the midfield is the first thing that's being criticized after yesterday. What I think was much more frustrating was our attacking approach. All the crosses and high passes.. that really grinded my gears. Or Ginter who looked bad for both goals. Hummels also showed a very bad performance. I don't get why we suddenly try to play this style when our best players are suited to a style centered around short passing.

The setup Löw has been using hasn´t really been working so understandably he is trying to change things up.
I think Germany missed a chance here they should have gotten rid of Löw much sooner. His treatment of Hummels and Muller understates that he has really lost the plot.
The German team has a very good squad and should be competing for honors.

 

[do.ob]

Still make you guys favourites despite what our daft bookies are saying because of what happened in 70, 90, 96 & 10 and the trouble is we as a football nation are properly scarred by those defeats especially when we played well in a couple

Both teams have been a bit shit, but England have been fairly solid defensively and Germany have no defensive midfield. So in theory that should give England the edge. Stuff like nerves might of course play a role, but it's impossible to predict, based on what happened years ago between totally different sets of players.

I'm sorry but you're head over heals in a confirmation bias. There's no second player on the planet who's observed so critically as Kroos is observed by you. If somebody makes a mistake, you're looking for ways to blame it on Kroos but when Kroos makes a mistake, you look no further and straightly go straightly to the conclusion. You knew what you will be thinking in advance and now you're only looking for evidence for your already made opinion, ignoring everything contrary to it.

Against Hungary our primary issue was again that we couldn't convert dominance into chances. If we can't overload the wing after a quick shift of play with our wing backs, we're totally void of ideas or attacking patterns. Then we just whip in cross after cross or play high balls behind the line, hoping that something works out well, and Hummels happily partook in that - and that's a shame given that he still has one of the best build up games in the world. There's simply not enough subtletly in our attack. If the other team builds a wall, we go in head first and hope we break through. And that is gifting the opponent far too many easy possession wins and thus possibilities to counter. That's a shame, especially considering all the highly gifted players in the team that are very apt at breaking down cynical defenses like Hungary. If we have to take out Kroos for that and play a three man midfield with Gündogan and Goretzka as 8s, so be it. But blaming him while we are displaying such an uninspired shit show in the attack is just nonsense.

Kroos of course isn't the only problem. But when you concede in 2 out of 3 games, because he can't be bothered to do defensive work, then that's the biggest problem.

 

[GhastlyHun]

Germany have no defensive midfield..

..that Löw is willing to play.

 

[HerrLeinad]

Kroos of course isn't the only problem. But when you concede in 2 out of 3 games, because he can't be bothered to do defensive work, then that's the biggest problem.

What makes it worse is the combination of Kroos with Gündogan. It's just such a weak CM defensively against teams that can transition fast into attacks and in such cases both are often pretty much just empty space.
The thing that disappoints me is this isn't unexpected but you would still expect a lot more offensive impact from both, especially Gündogan is a huge disappoinment after the season he had with City. I guess scoring goals as CM is just easier in the EPL.

 

[barros]

..that Löw is willing to play.

Both the German coach and Portugal's have one thing in common, they are dinossaurs and they cannot change anything during the game, Portugal was been killed and Santos kept the same formation for almost the entire game and miraculous Germany only scored 4, then Löw should know that eventually someone with half a brain would populate the midfield and use counter attacks against them and Hungary almost won the game. Against England if they use the same formation they will lose the game and Kane and Sterling will score a few goals each.

 

[Zehner]

What makes it worse is the combination of Kroos with Gündogan. It's just such a weak CM defensively against teams that can transition fast into attacks and in such cases both are often pretty much just empty space.
The thing that disappoints me is this isn't unexpected but you would still expect a lot more offensive impact from both, especially Gündogan is a huge disappoinment after the season he had with City. I guess scoring goals as CM is just easier in the EPL.

What can we say, it's just a farmer's league Anyway, I think if we would be playing a 4-3-3 with Gündogan and Goretzka as 8s, we would see much more of their offensive impact. Gündogan himself said that the reason why he was so much better going forward this season was that Cancelo joined them in midfield and protected his back. Now he's not only playing without that support, he also plays with a midfielder less. Kroos as some sort of deep lying playmaker is much better suited to the 3-4-3, like Jorginho for Chelsea e. g., but we would need a true DM besides him and we don't have such a player in the squad, arguably not even Kimmich.

But playing Müller in a 4-3-3 is difficult. Maybe try him as a false 9, Havertz on the right and Gnabry on the left. Or Müller playing in the left half spaces with Gosens pushing forward and Gnabry playing striker. There would be many possibilities but I don't think the 3-4-3 is suited if the opponent is okay with sitting back and countering.

 

[ForEverEleven]

I think we should abandon the 5atb formation against England. We are not gaining any more defensive stability with it, this group stage proved that. If Southgate watched our games, he will play with a back 5 against us to not allow the spaces for our wingbacks on the flanks. They have far more quality on the counter than Hungary and would cause us a lot of problems on the break, when we lose the ball and our fullbacks are still pushed high off the pitch.
I would go for a 4-3-3, looking like this: Neuer, Kimmich, Hummels, Rüdiger, Gosens - Kroos, Goretzka, Müller - Gnabry, Musiala, Havertz

Kimmich and Gosens would need to interpret their roles more defensively but I think they are not that important in our offense when we finally have real wingers on the pitch who can take on players. Müller and Havertz compliment each other well and Goretzka is a constant goal threat from midfield.

But I´m sure Löw wont change a lot, Müller and Goretzka will come in for Sane and Gündogan and that´s it. Would love to see Musiala start though, he just brings qualities in our offense no else does.

 

[do.ob]

I think we should abandon the 5atb formation against England. We are not gaining any more defensive stability with it, this group stage proved that. If Southgate watched our games, he will play with a back 5 against us to not allow the spaces for our wingbacks on the flanks. They have far more quality on the counter than Hungary and would cause us a lot of problems on the break, when we lose the ball and our fullbacks are still pushed high off the pitch.
I would go for a 4-3-3, looking like this: Neuer, Kimmich, Hummels, Rüdiger, Gosens - Kroos, Goretzka, Müller - Gnabry, Musiala, Havertz

Kimmich and Gosens would need to interpret their roles more defensively but I think they are not that important in our offense when we finally have real wingers on the pitch who can take on players. Müller and Havertz compliment each other well and Goretzka is a constant goal threat from midfield.

But I´m sure Löw wont change a lot, Müller and Goretzka will come in for Sane and Gündogan and that´s it. Would love to see Musiala start though, he just brings qualities in our offense no else does.

I mean with that suggestion the cover will change from 3cbs + "Kroos" to 2cbs + "Kroos", full backs aren't going to stay back, Kimmich especially seems to have very little positional discipline or even understanding when playing on the right, which I guess partly comes from the fact that mighty Latvia was the first time Löw played him there since the world cup, where it also was a problem. I think either way, be it playing some 4231 with Bayern's midfield 3 or persisting with the 343 mr. Turbo has to go, because no formation works when your DM doesn't really bother to defend counters or say throw ins. In reality though I think you're right and +Müller+Goretzka -Sane-Gündogan is the best one can hope for.

 

[JJ12]

Hope they knock england out so we can sign Sancho

 

[Wolf1992]

They will all be saying Germany can’t even beat Hungry at home, but will forget England couldn’t even beat Scotland at home.

Wait for them to say the excuse that England vs Scotland it's a hard match cause it's a historical rivalry... completely forgetting that besides Robertson,Gilmour, and Mctominay the gap in quality between the 2 teams it's huge.

 

[poleglass red]

Wait for them to say the excuse that England vs Scotland it's a hard match cause it's a historical rivalry... completely forgetting that besides Robertson,Gilmour, and Mctominay the gap in quality between the 2 teams it's huge.

I get your point in the quality between the two teams, but I'd add Tierney and McGinn to that list as well.

 

[uamini]

So in hindsight, was it a good idea to bring back Müller and Hummels?
Hummels was decent but Müller didn't really do much except tell people where they should stand on the field. And he failed when it mattered, that miss against England doomed Germany.

Would it make sense to keep them around for Qatar?

 

[Pow]

So in hindsight, was it a good idea to bring back Müller and Hummels?
Hummels was decent but Müller didn't really do much except tell people where they should stand on the field. And he failed when it mattered, that miss against England doomed Germany.

Would it make sense to keep them around for Qatar?

Hummels was fine. Muller needs to go. Not involved all game but his sitter.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

So in hindsight, was it a good idea to bring back Müller and Hummels?
Hummels was decent but Müller didn't really do much except tell people where they should stand on the field. And he failed when it mattered, that miss against England doomed Germany.

Would it make sense to keep them around for Qatar?

Hummels still looks quality for the most part, albeit slow, but Muller, Kroos and Neuer look done.

 

[Henrik Larsson]

So in hindsight, was it a good idea to bring back Müller and Hummels?
Hummels was decent but Müller didn't really do much except tell people where they should stand on the field. And he failed when it mattered, that miss against England doomed Germany.

Would it make sense to keep them around for Qatar?

Hummels seemed surpringly good this tournament, I think Müller was playing through a knee injury? Nothing of his usual energy and he missed that chance, but if he's fit and in good form for Qatar he might not be such a bad option. Werner seems like a parody on a footballer, (I know he had some very good stats for Leipzig) have never in my life seen that guy play well, all he seems to do is run hard and give out this incredibly dumb facial expression.

 

[Rakaposhi]

So in hindsight, was it a good idea to bring back Müller and Hummels?
Hummels was decent but Müller didn't really do much except tell people where they should stand on the field. And he failed when it mattered, that miss against England doomed Germany.

Would it make sense to keep them around for Qatar?

Hummels is still one of the best central defenders in world football.
Playing Muller is the last of Low's many mistakes. No idea why he ignored Reus who is twice the player Muller is and who was in great form prior to the tournament.

 

[FootyGirl88]

They were awful, everything was so slow and ponderous.

 

[Irwin99]

Not a great showing by them. The fight wasn't there as much which surprised me and England were fairly comfortable throughout. They still have some very good players but it's probably best they have a new manager.

 

[Member 109952]

Probably one of the weakest German sides for a good while, whereas this is the best English squad of talent since I've been alive (overall talent, especially in attack). Quite lucky for us to match up in that sense, whereas 2010 the teams were a lot more even.

A lot of good young players though so in about 4-5 years when they peak and more players come through they should be a force again.

 

[bosnian_red]

They'll be among the favourites for the World Cup with France if Flick takes over and Zidane takes France over IMO. Low should've been replaced 3 years ago.

Personnel wise they still have plenty of quality. But no striker, no fullbacks apart from Kimmich who is better in midfield anyway. Absolutely stacked in controlling midfielders... but you need end product, which they lacked. Muller didn't have a real striker to play off of which he needs. Thought they'd flop and they did in the end.

 

[Poltophagy]

The worst tournament string of all time for the German team. Löw leaves in disgrace. Embarrassing display both here and in the world cup. You'd think Germany had become Denmark going by the results.

 

[RoyH1]

The old guard that was in the world champion side should retire and make it easier for the new Germany manager to start their much needed revolution.

 

[BayernFan87]

Thank god Löw is finally gone.
If he had any dignity he would have resigned after 2018...or after the 0:6 against Spain... Or the 1:2 against fecking northern macedonia