Gerrard - the most complete player in Premier League history?

[Siorac]

That's ruling himself out.

And i also don't get why he thinks Hodgson will not play him as a starter, when he has never played under him.

Hodgson:

""The contacts with Michael were conducted before I took the job and it was made clear to me that he wasn't a player who wanted to be considered, so quite frankly he wasn't a player who did consider [for Euro 2012]," he said. "

"And at the time with all the senior players we had at our disposal, maybe it wasn't so important. Carrick is a player I've always admired, who knows, in the future if these injuries continue, he may have a place, but I'll have to go and speak to him, although I didn't think it was appropriate before the championship."

Also Hodgson:

“I wouldn’t dream of putting Michael Carrick on a standby list after he’s made it clear in the past he doesn’t want to be involved like that,” Hodgson said. “I’d have to be convinced he was better than the four [central midfielders] I’ve selected, and that he’d be happy to come out of retirement.”

Basically, there's no excuse for not placing a phone call to Carrick after Barry and Lampard picked up injuries. Nothing. "Not appropriate?" feck that. Yes, Carrick got sick of being fifth and sixth choice for two positions under Capello (which was ridiculous in itself) but he may have been happy with being third choice at the Euros... we'll never know because Hodgson never bothered to call him, by his own admission.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

So basically he judged the situation and he did rule himself out, didn't he?

It' completely fine if a footballer thinks that it's not worth destroying his vacations(after a long tiring season), playing in Euros where there is little hope of winning it.
We should respect that decision rather than make it look like Roy ignored him.

Roy did ignore him! He didn't pick him in the 23. He thought even he was on standby to players who aren't much better than him the likelihood of playing would have been nil especially as he wasn't one of the first four picks. I'm not sure what the reaction was when Barry and Lampard got injured but Hodgson should have made a more concerted effort to pick the player he should have picked initially.

 

[B20]

You need both a playmaker and a destroyer for Gerrard to really function and for that he isn't really a central midfielder.

For the group stages, I think Carrick is good enough at doing both to have made it a working partnership.

Gerrard would have been most effective, doing the role Milner was doing. But I don't think his ego would have allowed it.

I don't agree with that. Milner played a very restricted game. Gerrard on the right with license to roam I think would have been as good an option, if not better (though I dread to think of where that leaves central midfield with the players available), but that is not in the cards in Roy's system.

 

[B20]

Basically, there's no excuse for not placing a phone call to Carrick after Barry and Lampard picked up injuries. Nothing. "Not appropriate?" feck that. Yes, Carrick got sick of being fifth and sixth choice for two positions under Capello (which was ridiculous in itself) but he may have been happy with being third choice at the Euros... we'll never know because Hodgson never bothered to call him, by his own admission.

Both are at fault. Carrick could have picked up the phone to let him know he could help out due to the crisis as well.

Roy should have been more proactive. Carrick could have shown just a tinge of desire to play for England. It's one thing to say no when the England manager has refused to even call you up for years. It's another thing to not change your stance when a new manager comes in who might rate him very differently and there is an injury crisis in midfield.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

For the group stages, I think Carrick is good enough at doing both to have made it a working partnership.



I don't agree with that. Milner played a very restricted game. Gerrard on the right with license to roam I think would have been as good an option, if not better (though I dread to think of where that leaves central midfield with the players available), but that is not in the cards in Roy's system.

I think Carrick is a good player but I don't think he is good enough to try and get a foot on the game as well as cover for Gerrard's runs. It may be fine against Sweden and Ukraine but would get torn apart by a decent team.

Both Milner and Young played restrictive games but I think Gerrard would have been fine covering for Johnson as well as knowing when to use the overlap or put in a deep cross. May have been best placed to play Milner in central midfield as a workhorse of the players available. Milner is more a disciplined player.

 

[Siorac]

Both are at fault. Carrick could have picked up the phone to let him know he could help out due to the crisis as well.

Roy should have been more proactive. Carrick could have shown just a tinge of desire to play for England. It's one thing to say no when the England manager has refused to even call you up for years. It's another thing to not change your stance when a new manager comes in who might rate him very differently and there is an injury crisis in midfield.

Well yes, you've got a point there.

Still, after Hodgson made it clear that he regards Carrick as inferior to both Scott Parker and Gareth Barry, I can't blame him (Carrick) for not making the effort to indicate that he might be available. "He might have a place in the future if these injuries continue": that line alone is a major humiliation for a player who's been a key member of a side that won four titles in the last six years and got to three CL finals. While Scott Parker got relegated with West Ham.

 

[finneh]

So whos job was it?

Was it up to Parker to pass and dictate the play in the middle, or was it supposed to be Young and Milner out on the wings?

We didn't have anyone who was supposed to play the deep play-maker role. We played a game that revolved (or was suppose to) around Rooney dropping deep and being a creative inspiration, the wingers being creative and the entire team putting in a shift defensively.

Even if Gerrard did play an uncharacteristically great possession based game, we would have still faltered, the same way Carrick-Scholes will falter against a good midfield 3.

You need both a playmaker and a destroyer for Gerrard to really function and for that he isn't really a central midfielder.

Against a good midfield three this is the case with almost any player given the burden of doing something different creatively from central midfield. When Fergie tries to shoehorn Kagawa into a central midfield duo with Carrick we'll be saying exactly the same thing after being dominated.

 

[Zen86]

We didn't have anyone who was supposed to play the deep play-maker role. We played a game that revolved (or was suppose to) around Rooney dropping deep and being a creative inspiration, the wingers being creative and the entire team putting in a shift defensively.

Even if Gerrard did play an uncharacteristically great possession based game, we would have still faltered, the same way Carrick-Scholes will falter against a good midfield 3.

It didn't have to be a deep playmaker role, just somebody there to pass the ball. I refuse to believe Hodgson sent the team out with nobody in mind to actually move the ball around the middle.

I'm not arguing the merits of 4-4-2 vs another formation, I'm arguing about how bad we made 4-4-2 actually look in general.

 

[Trionz]

Hodgson:



Also Hodgson:



Basically, there's no excuse for not placing a phone call to Carrick after Barry and Lampard picked up injuries. Nothing. "Not appropriate?" feck that. Yes, Carrick got sick of being fifth and sixth choice for two positions under Capello (which was ridiculous in itself) but he may have been happy with being third choice at the Euros... we'll never know because Hodgson never bothered to call him, by his own admission.

""The contacts with Michael were conducted before I took the job and it was made clear to me that he wasn't a player who wanted to be
considered, so quite frankly he wasn't a player who
did consider [for Euro 2012]," he said. "


this bit is enough for me.
They, as in FA, have their pride as well and rightly so.
You can't desperately go to a player who has ruled himself out.

 

[finneh]

It didn't have to be a deep playmaker role, just somebody there to pass the ball. I refuse to believe Hodgson sent the team out with nobody in mind to actually move the ball around the middle.

The plan was to get the ball to the wingers and to the forwards/Gerrard as fast as possible from what I could see (often bypassing midfield and sometimes even defence). There certainly didn't seem to be any tactics based around keeping possession in the middle of the park and we didn't play any players who are suited to patient, possession football.

If you believe that the instructions to Gerrard were to keep possession and dictate the play by moving it around in the middle of the park, then you either believe Hodgson had no idea about Gerrard's qualities as a player or you have no idea about Gerrard's qualities as a player.

It is quite obvious that if we were playing this type of game we'd have had 3 in the middle and Carrick would be one of the first names on the team-sheet.

 

[SmashedHombre]

Hodgson:



Also Hodgson:



Basically, there's no excuse for not placing a phone call to Carrick after Barry and Lampard picked up injuries. Nothing. "Not appropriate?" feck that. Yes, Carrick got sick of being fifth and sixth choice for two positions under Capello (which was ridiculous in itself) but he may have been happy with being third choice at the Euros... we'll never know because Hodgson never bothered to call him, by his own admission.

If Hodgson needs to be convinced that Carrick is better than Henderson than England have no feckin hope.

 

[Laphroaig]

Basically, there's no excuse for not placing a phone call to Carrick after Barry and Lampard picked up injuries. Nothing. "Not appropriate?" feck that. Yes, Carrick got sick of being fifth and sixth choice for two positions under Capello (which was ridiculous in itself) but he may have been happy with being third choice at the Euros... we'll never know because Hodgson never bothered to call him, by his own admission.

Just like Capello screwed up and missed out on Scholes by not having a conversation with him in 2010, Hodgson did the same with Carrick in 2012. Amateurish.